Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

With credit to NOYB for bringing this up in another thread, and with the understanding
it deserves a separate thread to counter the lib claims of record unemployment and a
worsening economy, here are some facts on the growing economy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2003Aug7.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop to Six-Month Low

By Jeannine Aversa
Associated Press Writer
Thursday, August 7, 2003; 2:40 PM


America's business productivity soared, new claims for unemployment benefits dropped to
a six-month low and retailers reported strong sales, a triple dose of good news as the
economy tries to get back to full throttle.



Productivity -- the amount that an employee produces per hour of work -- grew at an
annual rate of 5.7 percent in the April to June quarter, the best showing since the
third quarter of 2002, the Labor Department reported Thursday. That marked an
improvement from the 2.1 percent growth rate in productivity posted in the first three
months of this year.

In a second report from the department, new applications for jobless benefits fell by a
seasonally adjusted 3,000 to a six-month low of 390,000 for the work week ending Aug.
2. It marked the third week in a row that claims were below 400,000, a level associated
with a weak job market. This suggest the pace of layoffs is stabilizing. Claims hit a
high this year of 459,000 during the work week that ended April 19.

A third report showed the nation's largest retailers finally got a break in July as
warm weather and heavy discounting helped lift sales above expectations for many
merchants, even the struggling department store sector.

All industry segments appeared to benefit from an improved selling environment.
Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the industry leader, boosted its profit outlook for the second
quarter. J.C. Penney Co. Inc., Kohl's Corp. and Gap Inc. were among the retailers that
reported sales that beat analysts' forecasts.

On Wall Street, stocks moved higher. The Dow Jones industrials gained 43 points and the
Nasdaq was up 4 points in trading around midday.

With scattered signs of an economic revival, economists expect the Federal Reserve to
hold a key short-term interest rate at a 45-year low of 1 percent at its next meeting
on Aug. 12.

Some economists are predicting a growth rate in the second half in the range of 3.5
percent to 4 percent or more, as near rock-bottom short-term interest rates and a fresh
round of tax cuts take hold.

Both the productivity and jobless claims figures were better than economists were
expecting. They were forecasting productivity to grow at a 4 percent pace in the second
quarter and for jobless claims to rise.

For the economy's long-term health and rising living standards, solid productivity
gains are crucial. They allow the economy to grow faster without triggering inflation.
Companies can pay workers more without raising prices, which would eat up those wage
gains. And, productivity gains also can bolster a company's profitability.

Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan told Congress last month that it has been unusual for
companies to achieve healthy gains in productivity when the performance of the overall
economy has been so lackluster.

"To some extent, companies under pressure to cut costs in an environment of still-tepid
sales growth and an uncertain economic outlook might be expected to search aggressively
for ways to employ resources more efficiently," Greenspan said. "That they have
succeeded, in general, over a number of quarters suggests that a prior accumulation of
inefficiencies was available to be eliminated," he added.

One recent consequence of improving productivity, however, has been an ability of many
businesses to pare existing workforces and still meet increases in demand, Greenspan
said.

In the second quarter, businesses boosted output at a 3.4 percent rate, up from a 1.4
percent growth rate in the first quarter. But workers' hours were cut at a 2.2 percent
rate in the second quarter, following a 0.7 percent rate of decline in the prior three
months.

Still, people who kept their jobs made gains. Workers' real hourly compensation rose at
a 2.9 percent rate in the second quarter, the biggest increase since the third quarter
of 2000, and up from a 0.2 percent growth rate in the first quarter.

Companies' unit labor costs, meanwhile, fell at a rate of 2.1 percent in the second
quarter, boding well for profit margins. That compared with a 2 percent rate of
increase in the first quarter.
- - - - --

Want more?

According to the latest report from the US Department of Commerce:

-The GDP increased in both the 1st and 2nd quarters of 2003

-Personal and disposable income increased in both the 1st and 2nd quarters of 2003

-Corporate profits increased in the 1st quarter of 2003 (2nd quarter report not yet
out)

http://www.bea.doc.gov/

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Sorry libs, the sky certainly ain't a fallin'. In fact, just the opposite, except of
course for your aspirations of a presidential win in '04.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

And this has "what" to do with boating?

============================================

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:35:27 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:

With credit to NOYB for bringing this up in another thread, and with the understanding
it deserves a separate thread to counter the lib claims of record unemployment and a
worsening economy, here are some facts on the growing economy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2003Aug7.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop to Six-Month Low

By Jeannine Aversa
Associated Press Writer
Thursday, August 7, 2003; 2:40 PM


America's business productivity soared, new claims for unemployment benefits dropped to
a six-month low and retailers reported strong sales, a triple dose of good news as the
economy tries to get back to full throttle.



Productivity -- the amount that an employee produces per hour of work -- grew at an
annual rate of 5.7 percent in the April to June quarter, the best showing since the
third quarter of 2002, the Labor Department reported Thursday. That marked an
improvement from the 2.1 percent growth rate in productivity posted in the first three
months of this year.

In a second report from the department, new applications for jobless benefits fell by a
seasonally adjusted 3,000 to a six-month low of 390,000 for the work week ending Aug.
2. It marked the third week in a row that claims were below 400,000, a level associated
with a weak job market. This suggest the pace of layoffs is stabilizing. Claims hit a
high this year of 459,000 during the work week that ended April 19.

A third report showed the nation's largest retailers finally got a break in July as
warm weather and heavy discounting helped lift sales above expectations for many
merchants, even the struggling department store sector.

All industry segments appeared to benefit from an improved selling environment.
Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the industry leader, boosted its profit outlook for the second
quarter. J.C. Penney Co. Inc., Kohl's Corp. and Gap Inc. were among the retailers that
reported sales that beat analysts' forecasts.

On Wall Street, stocks moved higher. The Dow Jones industrials gained 43 points and the
Nasdaq was up 4 points in trading around midday.

With scattered signs of an economic revival, economists expect the Federal Reserve to
hold a key short-term interest rate at a 45-year low of 1 percent at its next meeting
on Aug. 12.

Some economists are predicting a growth rate in the second half in the range of 3.5
percent to 4 percent or more, as near rock-bottom short-term interest rates and a fresh
round of tax cuts take hold.

Both the productivity and jobless claims figures were better than economists were
expecting. They were forecasting productivity to grow at a 4 percent pace in the second
quarter and for jobless claims to rise.

For the economy's long-term health and rising living standards, solid productivity
gains are crucial. They allow the economy to grow faster without triggering inflation.
Companies can pay workers more without raising prices, which would eat up those wage
gains. And, productivity gains also can bolster a company's profitability.

Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan told Congress last month that it has been unusual for
companies to achieve healthy gains in productivity when the performance of the overall
economy has been so lackluster.

"To some extent, companies under pressure to cut costs in an environment of still-tepid
sales growth and an uncertain economic outlook might be expected to search aggressively
for ways to employ resources more efficiently," Greenspan said. "That they have
succeeded, in general, over a number of quarters suggests that a prior accumulation of
inefficiencies was available to be eliminated," he added.

One recent consequence of improving productivity, however, has been an ability of many
businesses to pare existing workforces and still meet increases in demand, Greenspan
said.

In the second quarter, businesses boosted output at a 3.4 percent rate, up from a 1.4
percent growth rate in the first quarter. But workers' hours were cut at a 2.2 percent
rate in the second quarter, following a 0.7 percent rate of decline in the prior three
months.

Still, people who kept their jobs made gains. Workers' real hourly compensation rose at
a 2.9 percent rate in the second quarter, the biggest increase since the third quarter
of 2000, and up from a 0.2 percent growth rate in the first quarter.

Companies' unit labor costs, meanwhile, fell at a rate of 2.1 percent in the second
quarter, boding well for profit margins. That compared with a 2 percent rate of
increase in the first quarter.
- - - - --

Want more?

According to the latest report from the US Department of Commerce:

-The GDP increased in both the 1st and 2nd quarters of 2003

-Personal and disposable income increased in both the 1st and 2nd quarters of 2003

-Corporate profits increased in the 1st quarter of 2003 (2nd quarter report not yet
out)

http://www.bea.doc.gov/

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Sorry libs, the sky certainly ain't a fallin'. In fact, just the opposite, except of
course for your aspirations of a presidential win in '04.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
And this has "what" to do with boating?



Exactly nothing, as the subject clearly states.

And what does your contribution to this thread have to do with boating?

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
And this has "what" to do with boating?



Absolutely nothing, as the subject header clearly states.

And what does your post have to do with boating?

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
And this has "what" to do with boating?



Absolutely nothing, as the subject header clearly states.

And what does your post have to do with boating?

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

Jim wrote:

With credit to NOYB for bringing this up in another thread, and with the understanding
it deserves a separate thread to counter the lib claims of record unemployment and a
worsening economy, here are some facts on the growing economy:

Remember back in early 2001 when many of the same sources were singing happy tunes about
"no recession?" Were you dumb enough to believe them then?

All the responsible business press is reporting worse sales, more layoffs, durable good
orders down... new housing starts last week were the lowest since the early 1990s... but
hey, why let reality in and spoil your little party?

From the point of view of Bush & Co and his supporters, the economy doesn't matter. Do you
really think that people with annual incomes of $1mill per year are worried about layoffs
or durable good orders?

DSK

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

Jim wrote:

With credit to NOYB for bringing this up in another thread, and with the understanding
it deserves a separate thread to counter the lib claims of record unemployment and a
worsening economy, here are some facts on the growing economy:

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
With credit to NOYB for bringing this up in another thread, and with the
understanding
it deserves a separate thread to counter the lib claims of record
unemployment and a
worsening economy, here are some facts on the growing economy:

Ya got balz, Jim.

Your report does not support what you purport! You can run that skunk out of
the bushes all afternoon and try to convince us country boys it's really a
black and white house cat, but the perfume gives it away nonetheless.

Let's look at a few of the details in the report you're so proud of, shall we?

new claims for unemployment benefits dropped to
a six-month low

A one-week drop in the number of "new claims" for unemployment only means that
the layoffs have slowed down a little bit.
Has nothing to do with how many people are employed, merely defines the rate at
which new people are joining the ranks of the unemployed. As the work force
shrinks, layoffs will naturally slow down. Much of the deadwood has already
been chopped- along with a good bit of the forest core.

Simple math: as the workforce shrinks, a decreasing number of people losing
their jobs in a given week can actually represent
a steady or even increasing *percentage* of the diminishing base.


Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one week drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to. The fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.




Productivity -- the amount that an employee produces per hour of work -- grew
at an
annual rate of 5.7 percent in the April to June quarter, the best showing
since the
third quarter of 2002, the Labor Department reported Thursday.

Good news for employers and investors, true. How does this get our people back
to work?


Another spin on your part. The fact is that productivity increased for 2 straight
quarters.


In a second report from the department, new applications for jobless benefits
fell by a
seasonally adjusted 3,000 to a six-month low of 390,000 for the work week
ending Aug.
2. It marked the third week in a row that claims were below 400,000, a level
associated
with a weak job market.

400,000 layoffs a week is considered a "weak job market?" No doubt. So, if only
390,000 people are involuntarily separated from the source of their paychecks
the Bush Administration is doing a whiz-bang job of managing the economy? Your
standards are far too relaxed.

I have some things I have to get done tonight. I will respond to the rest of your
dribble tomorrow.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

What does this have to do with rec.boats? Post this stuff elsewhere...

--
Marty S.
Baltimore, MD USA


"Jim" wrote in message
et...
With credit to NOYB for bringing this up in another thread, and with the
understanding
it deserves a separate thread to counter the lib claims of record
unemployment and a
worsening economy, here are some facts on the growing economy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2003Aug7.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop to Six-Month Low

By Jeannine Aversa
Associated Press Writer
Thursday, August 7, 2003; 2:40 PM


America's business productivity soared, new claims for unemployment
benefits dropped to
a six-month low and retailers reported strong sales, a triple dose of good
news as the
economy tries to get back to full throttle.



Productivity -- the amount that an employee produces per hour of work --
grew at an
annual rate of 5.7 percent in the April to June quarter, the best showing
since the
third quarter of 2002, the Labor Department reported Thursday. That marked
an
improvement from the 2.1 percent growth rate in productivity posted in the
first three
months of this year.

In a second report from the department, new applications for jobless
benefits fell by a
seasonally adjusted 3,000 to a six-month low of 390,000 for the work week
ending Aug.
2. It marked the third week in a row that claims were below 400,000, a
level associated
with a weak job market. This suggest the pace of layoffs is stabilizing.
Claims hit a
high this year of 459,000 during the work week that ended April 19.

A third report showed the nation's largest retailers finally got a break
in July as
warm weather and heavy discounting helped lift sales above expectations
for many
merchants, even the struggling department store sector.

All industry segments appeared to benefit from an improved selling
environment.
Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the industry leader, boosted its profit outlook for
the second
quarter. J.C. Penney Co. Inc., Kohl's Corp. and Gap Inc. were among the
retailers that
reported sales that beat analysts' forecasts.

On Wall Street, stocks moved higher. The Dow Jones industrials gained 43
points and the
Nasdaq was up 4 points in trading around midday.

With scattered signs of an economic revival, economists expect the Federal
Reserve to
hold a key short-term interest rate at a 45-year low of 1 percent at its
next meeting
on Aug. 12.

Some economists are predicting a growth rate in the second half in the
range of 3.5
percent to 4 percent or more, as near rock-bottom short-term interest
rates and a fresh
round of tax cuts take hold.

Both the productivity and jobless claims figures were better than
economists were
expecting. They were forecasting productivity to grow at a 4 percent pace
in the second
quarter and for jobless claims to rise.

For the economy's long-term health and rising living standards, solid
productivity
gains are crucial. They allow the economy to grow faster without
triggering inflation.
Companies can pay workers more without raising prices, which would eat up
those wage
gains. And, productivity gains also can bolster a company's profitability.

Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan told Congress last month that it has been
unusual for
companies to achieve healthy gains in productivity when the performance of
the overall
economy has been so lackluster.

"To some extent, companies under pressure to cut costs in an environment
of still-tepid
sales growth and an uncertain economic outlook might be expected to search
aggressively
for ways to employ resources more efficiently," Greenspan said. "That they
have
succeeded, in general, over a number of quarters suggests that a prior
accumulation of
inefficiencies was available to be eliminated," he added.

One recent consequence of improving productivity, however, has been an
ability of many
businesses to pare existing workforces and still meet increases in demand,
Greenspan
said.

In the second quarter, businesses boosted output at a 3.4 percent rate, up
from a 1.4
percent growth rate in the first quarter. But workers' hours were cut at a
2.2 percent
rate in the second quarter, following a 0.7 percent rate of decline in the
prior three
months.

Still, people who kept their jobs made gains. Workers' real hourly
compensation rose at
a 2.9 percent rate in the second quarter, the biggest increase since the
third quarter
of 2000, and up from a 0.2 percent growth rate in the first quarter.

Companies' unit labor costs, meanwhile, fell at a rate of 2.1 percent in
the second
quarter, boding well for profit margins. That compared with a 2 percent
rate of
increase in the first quarter.
- - - - --

Want more?

According to the latest report from the US Department of Commerce:

-The GDP increased in both the 1st and 2nd quarters of 2003

-Personal and disposable income increased in both the 1st and 2nd quarters
of 2003

-Corporate profits increased in the 1st quarter of 2003 (2nd quarter
report not yet
out)

http://www.bea.doc.gov/

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Sorry libs, the sky certainly ain't a fallin'. In fact, just the
opposite, except of
course for your aspirations of a presidential win in '04.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one week
drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to. The
fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.

If it did, that fact is *not supported* by this news account. The news story
simply says that the rate at which additional people became unemployed slowed
down.
Where, oh where, does it say the total number of people working went up?

It does say that employers are using the productivity increases to "pare" the
workforce a bit. To me, that means decrease the workforce.

Good news for employers and investors, true. How does this get our people
back
to work?


Another spin on your part. The fact is that productivity increased for 2
straight
quarters.

The discussion has been centered around unemployment, not productivity. For
years, we made huge gains in productivity by replacing people with computers.
Ten typists fired, two programmers hired, and productivity per employee is way
up. I am not disputing your productivity claim.

Your
standards are far too relaxed.

I have some things I have to get done tonight. I will respond to the rest of
your
dribble tomorrow.



If you're responding to "dribble", your standards are not only relaxed, they
are unconscious.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 03:06:02 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one week drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to. The fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.


I'm only jumping into this, because it is somewhat related to boating,
as this economy is impacting all industries.

It has not been shown that unemployment dropped, only that the folks
being put out of work dropped. Not that alone, the media that spins
this news routinely forgets to mention that thousands of folks finally
run out of their benefits, and are no longer a "statistic." It
doesn't mean they've entered the workforce, or it would show in other
data. Jobs are moving overseas, and will continue to do so.
Companies are myopic in this regard, because their only concern is
profits, which makes corporate executives rich, and gives analysts
their fuel to prosper.

Another spin on your part. The fact is that productivity increased for 2 straight
quarters.

Spin? Productivity.........Part of Greenspan's "new economy."
Productivity is wonderful for corporate America, as it drives, that's
right, profits. Take a look at what the media and analysts purport to
be "surprisingly good earnings" for Q2. Earnings on cost cutting, tax
benefits, aquisitions, and a weak dollar are not earnings.

Companies are now finding that they can squeeze more work out of each
employee, so they're unlikely to hire. Moreover, they'll use these
current metrics when the economy does start to recover, so as business
does improve, the rate of adding new employees will be much lower than
in the past. Q2 GDP was driven almost exclusively by mortgage
activity, and with interest rates surging upward, GDP likely won't see
this benefit in Q3.

Bear in mind that you don't see the full story unless you dig for it.
The media, analysts and economists work in concert to spin even poor
data, making sure everyone has a good prescription for their rose
colored glasses. Talk to folks on the front line, and they'll look at
you cross-eyed if you start talking "recovery".

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"SeaDweller" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 03:06:02 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one week drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to. The fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.


I'm only jumping into this, because it is somewhat related to boating,
as this economy is impacting all industries.

It has not been shown that unemployment dropped, only that the folks
being put out of work dropped. Not that alone, the media that spins
this news routinely forgets to mention that thousands of folks finally
run out of their benefits, and are no longer a "statistic." It
doesn't mean they've entered the workforce, or it would show in other
data. Jobs are moving overseas, and will continue to do so.
Companies are myopic in this regard, because their only concern is
profits, which makes corporate executives rich, and gives analysts
their fuel to prosper.

Unemployment rates have been calculated in exactly the same way for decades. If you
find flaw in the way they are developed I suggest you contact the US BLS.



Another spin on your part. The fact is that productivity increased for 2 straight
quarters.

Spin? Productivity.........Part of Greenspan's "new economy."
Productivity is wonderful for corporate America, as it drives, that's
right, profits. Take a look at what the media and analysts purport to
be "surprisingly good earnings" for Q2. Earnings on cost cutting, tax
benefits, aquisitions, and a weak dollar are not earnings.

Companies are now finding that they can squeeze more work out of each
employee, so they're unlikely to hire. Moreover, they'll use these
current metrics when the economy does start to recover, so as business
does improve, the rate of adding new employees will be much lower than
in the past. Q2 GDP was driven almost exclusively by mortgage
activity, and with interest rates surging upward, GDP likely won't see
this benefit in Q3.

With greater productivity comes higher corporate profits (that is, afterall, what
companies are in business for, correct?) which leads to expansions and more employees.
That is Economy 101.

The productivity rate increased to 5.7%, almost twice the annual average of 2.8% from
'96 to '02.

Jobless claims also fell almost 1%, the lowest since February, 03.

The economy also expanded last quarter at a 2.4% annual rate, a full % point faster
than the first quarter '03.

The Dow and NASDAQ have shown strong gains the 1st 2 quarters of this year.

Add it all together and the end result will be more people working and lower
unemployment. We have already seen a dip in unemployment from June to July.

You put whatever negative spin you want on it but the numbers show otherwise.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

" Sorry libs, the sky certainly ain't a fallin'.

Everyone's greater concern is that this represents another example of
increasing productivity NOT being returned to Middle America in the
form higher wages or growing job quality and quantity.

I don't usually contribute to off-topic political posts, but I am
becoming increasingly worried about the future of jobs in this nation.
USA TODAY, this week, had a section on the mass export of jobs to
India that are traditionally professional jobs, such as IT, Claims
Adjusting, Customer Service, Banking, ETC. Many Fortune 500 companies
now have call centers in India to handle customer service. Indian
workers assume American names such as "Jennnifer Smith" as a pseudonym
at work and converse daily with thousands of Americans. COmmunication
costs have dropped, so all this can be moved offshore.

The manufacturing sector continues to die a little more each time we
go through this. I think we are coming to a crossroad where jobs
worth having will not be in this nation. Temping, low wages, and no
job security are not going to get mortgages, pay children's college
tuition, and run this economy.

Our entire economy right now is built on second mortgages digging
Americans "out of debt". People have now instituionalized their
consumer debt as 15-30 year first or second mortgages. The result is
little discretionary income as those individuals turn around and add
new credit card debt to maintian thier lifestyle. I honestly fear
there will be large new consumer debt, no new way to spread it out to
make it more manageable, and folks are going to find themselves moving
into their 50's & 60's with large debts, and no where to turn.

We have been threatened to raise productivity (with no reward for
doing so), taught to fear for our jobs, keep our heads down, and
don't expect anything more than the privilage of keeping our job for
one more month. The current administration must either address the
issue, or admit to our children that "every child will be left behind"
unless they are well-connected as they are the first generation that
will achieve less than their parents (as a whole).

I see no sacrifice or challenges to the upper incomes in this nation,
but we are gutting the middle class, stomping on the working class,
and not being told the truth. I listened carefully to the President's
address on the lawn of the White House before he went on vacation.
Constant questions about jobs resulted in vague, contentless, babbble
about "savings accounts" for job seekers, needing to invest in high
tech training, etc. As I said earlier, we are shipping these jobs
overseas.

I supported President Bush, but I'm quickly losing faith in him. I
watch the justification for war evaporate, more manufacturing jobs,
and now professional jobs, go overseas, aging men try to fulfil dreams
of glory that were applicable to the 1970's, and a significant shift
of tax policy and wealth shift to the upper class. This
administration is attempting to do away with defined pension plans to
"assist business" with the burdens they bear, etc. etc.

I have actually heard my 15 year old son remark about hoping to have
what mom and dad have when he is our age. That would be a 16 year old
Carver, a 13 year old and a 3 year car in the garage, and two kids in
braces at $5K per mouth. Will he do it?

Thanks for lending me your ear. I have no desire to flame or argue,
and won't reply to any responses. I'm just concerned, that's all.

Regards,

Coff

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Unemployment rates have been calculated in exactly the same way for decades.
If you
find flaw in the way they are developed I suggest you contact the US BLS.

Your article didn't address unemployment rates at all.

The BLS links I provided at the bottom of that post certainly did. Did you miss that?

It specifically noted
"new claims for unemployment benefits." Sea Dweller is right- it's only a
measurement of how many additional people joined the ranks of the unemployed-
just under 400,000 each week noted in the report.

We'd have to compare the number of new jobs created (a statistic missing from
the new account) with the number of people laid off and fired as well as the
number of
"discouraged" workers who have run out of
benefits, still can't find work, and move in with relatives, etc, to determine
whether total employment went up or down.

If unemployment is declining, that's great. But you can't show that by noting
the "new claims for jobless benefits". The claims only establish the rate at
which people are becoming unemployed, not how many people are laid off vs.
working.


Put whatever spin you want on it but I stand by my previous statement and the facts I
presented.



With greater productivity comes higher corporate profits (that is, afterall,
what
companies are in business for, correct?) which leads to expansions and more
employees.
That is Economy 101.

No, that's not what recent history has shown us.

I see you use the disclaimer *recent* when looking at history. Interesting.

But history *has* shown us exactly what I described.

Ever take an economics course Chuck?

Been to major downtown bank
lately? Forty years ago, a big bank would have been wall to wall desks. Lending
officers, accountants, clerks, secretaries, typists, etc. Today, your footsteps
echo across acres of empty, marble floors. More efficient technology created
productivity increases, so banks are able to accomplish more business and
earn more profits with far *fewer* people than ever before. The banking
industry did not use the increased profits to increase payroll.......just the
opposite. It used the decreased payroll to further increase profits. One of the
banks I do business with has a goofy looking telephone booth in the lobby,
along with a sign that says
"Talk to a banker!" You pick up the phone and get transferred to some high
school kid reading a script in Omaha, for all I know. Increased efficiency and
productivity
seldom result in an increase in payroll....and one of the corporate incentives
to be more productive and efficient is to be in a position to *decrease*
payroll expense.

Automation has reduced the number of workers needed to do a job. Productivity has
increased as a result of it.

Menial jobs have been replaced by robots and PC's. Many have also gone overseas. You
have to be educated and offer a skill to survive in todays job market. The days of the
high school graduate working on an assembly line and making the same money as a college
educated teacher or engineer are numbered.

Like it or not automation is here to stay. And it is not a bad thing. Get with the
times or get passed over.


"We could automate widget packaging. The machine would cost $300,000."

"We really shouldn't spend $300,000 this quarter."

"We can eliminate 4 employees in the packing department, and with benefits
considered we'll save almost $200k in the next 12 months. That's a fairly
decent return on investment."

"Sold!"

That's reality, 101.

No, that is negative thinking and speculation 101.



The productivity rate increased to 5.7%, almost twice the annual average of
2.8% from
'96 to '02.

Could it be some of the remaining workers are so frightened for their jobs they
are working a few hours "off the clock'?

Again, negative thinking and conjecture.

I would hate to live in your negative world Chuck.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

My dad has been trying to talk to someone at Dell computers about an error
they made, and all he keeps reaching are ex-7-11 employees. I figure that
the latest trend of using foreign speaking people in customer support won't
last long once the customer satisfaction polling data comes in.



"Coff" wrote in message
om...
" Sorry libs, the sky certainly ain't a fallin'.

Everyone's greater concern is that this represents another example of
increasing productivity NOT being returned to Middle America in the
form higher wages or growing job quality and quantity.

I don't usually contribute to off-topic political posts, but I am
becoming increasingly worried about the future of jobs in this nation.
USA TODAY, this week, had a section on the mass export of jobs to
India that are traditionally professional jobs, such as IT, Claims
Adjusting, Customer Service, Banking, ETC. Many Fortune 500 companies
now have call centers in India to handle customer service. Indian
workers assume American names such as "Jennnifer Smith" as a pseudonym
at work and converse daily with thousands of Americans. COmmunication
costs have dropped, so all this can be moved offshore.

The manufacturing sector continues to die a little more each time we
go through this. I think we are coming to a crossroad where jobs
worth having will not be in this nation. Temping, low wages, and no
job security are not going to get mortgages, pay children's college
tuition, and run this economy.

Our entire economy right now is built on second mortgages digging
Americans "out of debt". People have now instituionalized their
consumer debt as 15-30 year first or second mortgages. The result is
little discretionary income as those individuals turn around and add
new credit card debt to maintian thier lifestyle. I honestly fear
there will be large new consumer debt, no new way to spread it out to
make it more manageable, and folks are going to find themselves moving
into their 50's & 60's with large debts, and no where to turn.

We have been threatened to raise productivity (with no reward for
doing so), taught to fear for our jobs, keep our heads down, and
don't expect anything more than the privilage of keeping our job for
one more month. The current administration must either address the
issue, or admit to our children that "every child will be left behind"
unless they are well-connected as they are the first generation that
will achieve less than their parents (as a whole).

I see no sacrifice or challenges to the upper incomes in this nation,
but we are gutting the middle class, stomping on the working class,
and not being told the truth. I listened carefully to the President's
address on the lawn of the White House before he went on vacation.
Constant questions about jobs resulted in vague, contentless, babbble
about "savings accounts" for job seekers, needing to invest in high
tech training, etc. As I said earlier, we are shipping these jobs
overseas.

I supported President Bush, but I'm quickly losing faith in him. I
watch the justification for war evaporate, more manufacturing jobs,
and now professional jobs, go overseas, aging men try to fulfil dreams
of glory that were applicable to the 1970's, and a significant shift
of tax policy and wealth shift to the upper class. This
administration is attempting to do away with defined pension plans to
"assist business" with the burdens they bear, etc. etc.

I have actually heard my 15 year old son remark about hoping to have
what mom and dad have when he is our age. That would be a 16 year old
Carver, a 13 year old and a 3 year car in the garage, and two kids in
braces at $5K per mouth. Will he do it?

Thanks for lending me your ear. I have no desire to flame or argue,
and won't reply to any responses. I'm just concerned, that's all.

Regards,

Coff

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 12:34:08 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:

Unemployment rates have been calculated in exactly the same way for decades. If you
find flaw in the way they are developed I suggest you contact the US BLS.

There's certainly flaws in the data, but at least these same flaws are
carried over month-to-month! You're confusing new claims with the
unemployment rate, and they are not one in the same. New claims are
declining, but that doesn't mean the core unemployment rate is
declining. If more folks are put out of work than are hired, what do
you think occurs?

The unemployment rate fell in July, but not because businesses were
creating jobs -- it's because more than a half million people took
themselves out of the workforce.

With greater productivity comes higher corporate profits (that is, afterall, what
companies are in business for, correct?) which leads to expansions and more employees.
That is Economy 101.

Indeed, but therein lies the core issue.........Corporate earnings
(profits) are coming from increased productivity and cost cutting, not
increases in revenue. How can companies expand and add more employees
if their revenues are flat? Don't forget supply and demand in your
discussion of Economics 101.

You put whatever negative spin you want on it but the numbers show otherwise.

I'm not trying to put a negative spin on the numbers, they speak for
themselves.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

The BLS links I provided at the bottom of that post certainly did. Did you
miss that?

I seldom follow links provided in a post unless the only message is "check this
link." Beyond that, I expect that most of the important facts have been
presented in the main body of the argument.
No, I didn't follow the link.


Put whatever spin you want on it but I stand by my previous statement and the
facts I
presented.



I don't think anybody is disputing your facts. Just the interpretation.


I see you use the disclaimer *recent* when looking at history. Interesting.

What happens tomorrow is probably going to be a whole lot more like what
happened last week or last year than what happened
50, 100, or 1000 years ago. Yeah.


Automation has reduced the number of workers needed to do a job.
Productivity has
increased as a result of it.

We agree. (We disagree that increassed productivity always leads to the
creation of new jobs.)

Menial jobs have been replaced by robots and PC's. Many have also gone
overseas. You
have to be educated and offer a skill to survive in todays job market.

......and your edcated, skillful, job increasingly *must* include some element
that requires your physical presence in a specific location. It's not just the
widget welding jobs that are going offshore these days. Hardworking people with
5-6 years of
college and technical skills are losing jobs to competing workers in South
America, India, the Phillipines, the former Soviet Union, etc. If you can
"tele-commute" to your job from Cul-de-sac Acres, some other guy can
"tele-commute" from Bangkok. While he could live about as well as you can on
about 20% of your salary, your company will only pay him about 10%. Bummer.

The days of the
high school graduate working on an assembly line and making the same money as
a college
educated teacher or engineer are numbered.

Most assembly line workers make more than most teachers. :-)


Like it or not automation is here to stay. And it is not a bad thing. Get
with the
times or get passed over.

Once again, we don't disagree. But, how does this increasing automation,
resulting in more productivity per employee, bring about increasing numbers of
jobs? Automation is embraced by industry because it *decreases* payroll
expense.



"We could automate widget packaging. The machine would cost $300,000."

"We really shouldn't spend $300,000 this quarter."

"We can eliminate 4 employees in the packing department, and with benefits
considered we'll save almost $200k in the next 12 months. That's a fairly
decent return on investment."

"Sold!"

That's reality, 101.

No, that is negative thinking and speculation 101.



The productivity rate increased to 5.7%, almost twice the annual average
of
2.8% from
'96 to '02.

Could it be some of the remaining workers are so frightened for their jobs
they
are working a few hours "off the clock'?

Again, negative thinking and conjecture.

I would hate to live in your negative world Chuck.

(You know, there used to be a guy posting here as "Dennis Compton" who would
accuse anybody not beating the pro-Bush conservative drum as a negative
thinker.
You couldn't possibly be the same guy, since after a short period of time every
one of his posts was nothing but personal attack from end to end. Poor dude had
to be one frustrated Jose about the time he disappeared.)

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Jim" wrote in message
news:usEYa.92129$uu5.12579@sccrnsc04...

Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one
week drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to.
The fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.


Hmmm. Wait till they tally up Kodak's latest round of layoffs. Another 5,000
will bite the dust shortly.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Excerpt:
"U.S. Rep. Pete Visclosky, D-1st, and U.S. Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind.,
have made another move in their efforts to prevent the closure of the
Magnequench facility in Valparaiso and its re-location to the People's
Republic of China."

hahaha Follow the link!!!

--
Q

If we ever declare war on China, we're screwed. They'll just refuse to
sell us
any munitions. :-)

When's the last time you found shoes or boots made in this country? Danner
Boot Co. still makes boots for SOME government agencies, but if the feds
stop supporting them and that business ends up in China, we're phucked. Who
needs ammo when your army hasn't got shoes? Perhaps we'll equip Army Rangers
with Nike or New Balance hoops shoes, assuming the country of origin hasn't
been conquered by some terrorist group. In that case, we should be able to
make our own flip-flops from recycled tires, and go to war dressed like the
Viet Cong.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The BLS links I provided at the bottom of that post certainly did. Did you
miss that?

I seldom follow links provided in a post unless the only message is "check this
link." Beyond that, I expect that most of the important facts have been
presented in the main body of the argument.
No, I didn't follow the link.


Put whatever spin you want on it but I stand by my previous statement and the
facts I
presented.



I don't think anybody is disputing your facts. Just the interpretation.


I see you use the disclaimer *recent* when looking at history. Interesting.

What happens tomorrow is probably going to be a whole lot more like what
happened last week or last year than what happened
50, 100, or 1000 years ago. Yeah.


Interesting. Too bad you cannot remain consistent though.

You see, when I asked you in another thread to post examples of how unions have
recently improved the lives of their members you lectured me with their great deeds in
the early to mid 20th century, entirely dismissing the importance of the *recent* past
(yesterday,

Now in this argument you dismiss the past and rely only on last year, tomorrow and
yesterday (the recent past).

Whatever works best for you at any given moment I guess. ;-)

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
news:usEYa.92129$uu5.12579@sccrnsc04...

Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one
week drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to.
The fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.


Hmmm. Wait till they tally up Kodak's latest round of layoffs. Another
5,000
will bite the dust shortly.

It's not Bush's fault the World has gone digital. I haven't used dental film
in 4 years and regular film in 2 years.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

Jim wrote:



You see, when I asked you in another thread to post examples of how unions have
recently improved the lives of their members you lectured me with their great deeds in
the early to mid 20th century, entirely dismissing the importance of the *recent* past
(yesterday,

I don't think I could cite more than a a few thousand ways unions have
improved the lives of their members in the last few years. But you're
not worth the research, compiling and posting time, and even if I did do
the exercise, it wouldn't make the slightest difference to you or any of
the other brain-rot Konservatives here.

This isn't the place for posting carefully researched and crafted
material. It's the home of the slam-dunk, and as soon I see a couple of
Konservatives who can actually write and not merely repost the writings
of others, I'll consider engaging.

Until then, it is bons mots, without the bons. That's all you deserve.




--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:



You see, when I asked you in another thread to post examples of how unions have
recently improved the lives of their members you lectured me with their great deeds
in
the early to mid 20th century, entirely dismissing the importance of the *recent*
past
(yesterday,

I don't think I could cite more than a a few thousand ways unions have
improved the lives of their members in the last few years. But you're
not worth the research, compiling and posting time, and even if I did do
the exercise, it wouldn't make the slightest difference to you or any of
the other brain-rot Konservatives here.

This isn't the place for posting carefully researched and crafted
material. It's the home of the slam-dunk, and as soon I see a couple of
Konservatives who can actually write and not merely repost the writings
of others, I'll consider engaging.

Until then, it is bons mots, without the bons. That's all you deserve.

In other words, you cannot offer any specifics because there are none. No surprise.

Thanks anyway *fella*.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

Jim wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:



You see, when I asked you in another thread to post examples of how unions have
recently improved the lives of their members you lectured me with their great deeds
in
the early to mid 20th century, entirely dismissing the importance of the *recent*
past
(yesterday,

I don't think I could cite more than a a few thousand ways unions have
improved the lives of their members in the last few years. But you're
not worth the research, compiling and posting time, and even if I did do
the exercise, it wouldn't make the slightest difference to you or any of
the other brain-rot Konservatives here.

This isn't the place for posting carefully researched and crafted
material. It's the home of the slam-dunk, and as soon I see a couple of
Konservatives who can actually write and not merely repost the writings
of others, I'll consider engaging.

Until then, it is bons mots, without the bons. That's all you deserve.

In other words, you cannot offer any specifics because there are none. No surprise.

Thanks anyway *fella*.


There's no need for "other words." The words I used were precise and
meaningful.



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:



You see, when I asked you in another thread to post examples of how unions have
recently improved the lives of their members you lectured me with their great
deeds
in
the early to mid 20th century, entirely dismissing the importance of the
*recent*
past
(yesterday,

I don't think I could cite more than a a few thousand ways unions have
improved the lives of their members in the last few years. But you're
not worth the research, compiling and posting time, and even if I did do
the exercise, it wouldn't make the slightest difference to you or any of
the other brain-rot Konservatives here.

This isn't the place for posting carefully researched and crafted
material. It's the home of the slam-dunk, and as soon I see a couple of
Konservatives who can actually write and not merely repost the writings
of others, I'll consider engaging.

Until then, it is bons mots, without the bons. That's all you deserve.

In other words, you cannot offer any specifics because there are none. No
surprise.

Thanks anyway *fella*.


There's no need for "other words." The words I used were precise and
meaningful.



And totally void of facts or other useful information.

You declared yourself the union guru in another thread. If that is indeed the truth,
why you would need to spend time researching the recent contributions of unions to
their members is beyond me. One would think that a union loyalist could spout out such
information on demand. But I guess that is not the case.

My only conclusion? Unions have not improved the lives of their members in recent
years.

Oh, and one last thing "fella". Why do you continue to generalize about people? Why
are all republicans or conservatives the same in *your* twisted little mind?

Krawse, your posts are filled with venom and insults towards anyone who does not share
your political ideals. Pretty pathetic.

You are one sick wacko extremist.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
om...
My dad has been trying to talk to someone at Dell computers about an error
they made, and all he keeps reaching are ex-7-11 employees. I figure that
the latest trend of using foreign speaking people in customer support
won't
last long once the customer satisfaction polling data comes in.


snip
You and Dave are unflagging supporters of an unregulated free market system.
Enjoy the fruits of your most perfect system. Considering that you both have
complained loud and long about any form of restriction or regulation of
companies, you have absolutely no right to complain about what you are
getting. Enjoy it.

You used to be able to go to the hardware store and ask the man about a barn
hinge and the owner could tell you what he had, and discuss alternative in a
knowledgeable way. Of course, that corner hardware store has been driven out
of business by Wal-Mart. When you go to Wal-Mart, the "help" there can tell
you the isle where that sort of thing might be found; if they carry it. With
any luck at all, that knowledgeable former owner of the old hardware store
is now working as a greeter (low paid security staff) in the front of the
store.

This is the inevitable result of driving the wages down using the free
market. Your orders are filled wrong at the fast food restaurant, your
support at Dell sucks. The telephone is answered by a machine that does not
have the answer to your question.

As long as the only measure of the success of the economic system is how
much money changes hands, then issues like quality of life and quality of
services delivered will be taken off the table. A few will get the best of
everything, the rest will get the lowest common denominator.

This is the tyranny of "good enough". As long as there is a cost associated
with delivering better service, no company can afford to spend the money to
do effective support if it will raise the prices. At the time of purchase,
all the majority of the customers look at is the price and features. The one
or two souls that might pay a few bucks for quality service can't support a
big firm like Dell.

I will go out on a limb and predict that this mediocrity will continue and
be compounded as the economy worsens. The split between the few and the many
will continue to widen as the middle class continues to crumble. If you
think that millions of professional class jobs will be created to fill the
blue collar losses, then you are seeing some opportunity that are not
apparent from looking at the help wanted pages. If you continue to spout
this Pollyanna position, then I would ask you to explain were these jobs
will come from and why they won't be outsourced. I don't think you can.
Since there is not substance to your position, all I expect lots of
meaningless generalities and no specifics.

If you reject my starting premise (regulation of the market to achieve
social goals) then it is up to you to explain how things will be fixed.

Don't even ask how I would change the system. Homey don't play that game no
mo. It is being broken so badly that I am not sure that it can be fixed. The
needed medicine is so threatening to the supporters of both political
parties that is inconceivable that any politician could put them in place
unless there was a dire need. My answers I have are so far from current
policy that they will not seem relevant until we see the return of large
crowds of angry and unemployed homeless, like we had in the 30's. Thank God
we are hanging on to the right to bear arms; this may become useful in a
social crash. On the other hand, so are the desperate poor.

The unthinking and uneducated don't seem capable of working through the
inevitable output of current wrong-headed political decisions. To my way of
thinking, we have already been driven over the cliff, it is just a matter of
crashing to the ground. I don't see any way around this outcome unless some
very big changes occur; considering the blindness of the current political
leaders, this in not going to happen. Remember that things looked pretty
good in the roaring 20's. Until the inevitable crash, you just keep your
eyes shut tight and cross your fingers. It will do as much good as the
actions of the current political leadership.

Mark Browne

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

Jim wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:



You see, when I asked you in another thread to post examples of how unions have
recently improved the lives of their members you lectured me with their great
deeds
in
the early to mid 20th century, entirely dismissing the importance of the
*recent*
past
(yesterday,

I don't think I could cite more than a a few thousand ways unions have
improved the lives of their members in the last few years. But you're
not worth the research, compiling and posting time, and even if I did do
the exercise, it wouldn't make the slightest difference to you or any of
the other brain-rot Konservatives here.

This isn't the place for posting carefully researched and crafted
material. It's the home of the slam-dunk, and as soon I see a couple of
Konservatives who can actually write and not merely repost the writings
of others, I'll consider engaging.

Until then, it is bons mots, without the bons. That's all you deserve.

In other words, you cannot offer any specifics because there are none. No
surprise.

Thanks anyway *fella*.


There's no need for "other words." The words I used were precise and
meaningful.



And totally void of facts or other useful information.

Deliberately so, as I explained. Are you always this slow?


You declared yourself the union guru in another thread.

I do know quite a bit about labor unions and labor union history. I've
been involved in the labor movement here and abroad for about 30 years.


If that is indeed the truth,
why you would need to spend time researching the recent contributions of unions to
their members is beyond me.

I suspect most of life is beyond you.



My only conclusion? Unions have not improved the lives of their members in recent
years.

You and your conclusions are of no consequence.



Oh, and one last thing "fella". Why do you continue to generalize about people? Why
are all republicans or conservatives the same in *your* twisted little mind?

They're not. There still are some righteous Republican conservatives.
Not many. These days, Republican conservatism is embodied by the
philosophy of "I've got mine, so screw you." You're part of that.



Krawse, your posts are filled with venom and insults towards anyone who does not share
your political ideals. Pretty pathetic.

You are one sick wacko extremist.


Nah. People on my side of the spectrum are not bombing federal office
buildings, brainwashing little girls into sexual relationships, forcing
airliners into office buildings and the Pentagon, and so forth.
Those people are all conservatives, sick wacko right-wing extremists.
Like you and your buddies here, eh?



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

My suggestion would be to get into the health care industry. An aging
population has tremendous needs that are growing in leaps and bounds. You
don't even need to be a provider (ie--dr. or nurse). There are thousands of
companies that manufacturer or distribute health care items and
pharmaceuticals. The demand grows every day.

Conversely, the House recently passed legislation that would allow patients
to purchase prescription drugs from abroad for less money. The Senate is
not likely to pass it, and the White House has vowed to veto it.

The opponents argue that there are safety and quality issues at stake. Who
knows for sure.

On one hand, it'd be great for Americans to have access to certain drugs at
huge savings (for example, 1 month of tamoxifen for $60 instead of $360),
but this law would just force more American companies to search for even
cheaper ways to produce the drugs...and consequently lose more American jobs
in the process.

We really live in a screwed up society. Americans want to pay as little as
possible for something, but then whine when the product is junk, service is
poor, or domestic jobs are lost. Meanwhile, they want their 401-K's to
return 15% per year. So the corporations, in the interest of returning that
much-desired cheap product *and* a high return on their stock, cut expenses
and move the jobs overseas. People bitch that jobs are lost, but refuse to
pay more for the products if the jobs were kept here.

It used to be "you got what you paid for". That meant you got good service
when you paid a premium for it. The problems began when consumers started
demanding *both* the cheap product *and* the good service. Of course, the
corporations' profit margins fell when they tried to be everything to
everybody...so they either had to raise prices (no way in today's "best deal
mentality" society!)...or cut expenses and send the jobs overseas.

How did we get here? Well, one possibility is that it came from today's
"the World owes me" attitude. Things that were considered luxuries are now
considered necessities. Every family *must* have 2 or more cars, a half
dozen or more TV's, the latest footwear, the fastest computer, high speed
internet, etc.

If everybody would remember this saying, it just might be the answer to the
hemorrhage of jobs flowing out of this country:

"Ther bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of the low
price is gone."

We can no longer have both, folks. It was fun while it lasted, but it's
really begun to take a toll on our country and our working class.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

You used to be able to go to the hardware store and ask the man about a barn
hinge and the owner could tell you what he had, and discuss alternative in a
knowledgeable way. Of course, that corner hardware store has been driven out
of business by Wal-Mart. When you go to Wal-Mart, the "help" there can tell
you the isle where that sort of thing might be found; if they carry it. With
any luck at all, that knowledgeable former owner of the old hardware store
is now working as a greeter (low paid security staff) in the front of the
store.

This is the inevitable result of driving the wages down using the free
market. Your orders are filled wrong at the fast food restaurant, your
support at Dell sucks. The telephone is answered by a machine that does not
have the answer to your question.

As long as the only measure of the success of the economic system is how
much money changes hands, then issues like quality of life and quality of
services delivered will be taken off the table. A few will get the best of
everything, the rest will get the lowest common denominator.


I got an eye-opening insight into the current economy at Home Depot. I bought a
small truckload of bathtubs, sinks, toilets, faucets, etc recently. As the cast
iron tubs are almost 300 lb apiece and Mama didn't raise too big-or at least
too strong- a fool, I opted for the $55 delivery. (Anything between one item
and a whole truckload is a flat $55)

A nice young man followed us around with a notepad and kept track of all the
fixtures we picked out. As we waited to get written up at the Special Services
counter, we chatted with the guy and discovered he had to take the job clerking
at the Depot with five years of college and a degree in physics!

Not too many years ago, I knew a guy who went to work in the paint dept at Home
D.
He had a lot of knowledge about paint. They started him at $9 and hour, and
after
about a year raised him to $10. My friend was convinced that he would be on the
fast track to management, which at the time meant working about 60 hours a
week, supervising 45 employees, and being responsible for a branch store doing
over a $million volume on a busy weekend. The managers made annual salaries of
$50-60k at that time........

So the articulate, intelligent young guy with a physics degree? The kind of
nice guy I wish my daughter would meet? If he works really hard and is willing
to shoulder a huge responsibility, and if he plays his corporate politics
properly, he'll get to work up to a middle class wage- eventually- if he stays
at Home Depot and is really lucky.

My paint selling friend moved to another store after a couple of years. He is
now pretty disillusioned about his actual prospects to become the (woo woo)
"manager."

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Mark Browne" wrote in message
news:ubZYa.101715$uu5.14588@sccrnsc04...


You used to be able to go to the hardware store and ask the man about a
barn
hinge and the owner could tell you what he had, and discuss alternative in
a
knowledgeable way. Of course, that corner hardware store has been driven
out
of business by Wal-Mart.

Actually, small hardware stores are thriving around here (Rochester NY).
There's been a huge backlash against Wal Mart, the BORG and a couple of
others.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

Since Walmart is trading at it's 52 week high, I'd say that Rochester's
"huge backlash" isn't working out so well, is it?



"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Mark Browne" wrote in message
news:ubZYa.101715$uu5.14588@sccrnsc04...


You used to be able to go to the hardware store and ask the man about a
barn
hinge and the owner could tell you what he had, and discuss alternative
in
a
knowledgeable way. Of course, that corner hardware store has been driven
out
of business by Wal-Mart.

Actually, small hardware stores are thriving around here (Rochester NY).
There's been a huge backlash against Wal Mart, the BORG and a couple of
others.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

It's all relative, professor. If customers are waiting 1/2 hour for paint
advice in a neighborhood hardware store, LIKING it, and telling their
friends about the place, that's pretty huge for the hardware store, don't
you think? Especially if the store's just one of three in the city whose
staff who really knows how to make miniscule pigment adjustments to match
odd colors. Meanwhile, at Wal Mart: "Pigment? Mah uncle Jasper useta have
pigment, but he got skin cancer & then he epped & dahd."


"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...
Since Walmart is trading at it's 52 week high, I'd say that Rochester's
"huge backlash" isn't working out so well, is it?

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Since Walmart is trading at it's 52 week high, I'd say that Rochester's
"huge backlash" isn't working out so well, is it?




Wal-Mart sucks, from about every point imaginable.
me.


Is there *anything* in life that meets with your approval that is not associated with
labor unions or the Democratic party?

I would hate to have to walk a mile in *your* shoes.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

Jim wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Since Walmart is trading at it's 52 week high, I'd say that Rochester's
"huge backlash" isn't working out so well, is it?




Wal-Mart sucks, from about every point imaginable.
me.


Is there *anything* in life that meets with your approval that is not associated with
labor unions or the Democratic party?

I would hate to have to walk a mile in *your* shoes.


Wal-Mart is not only an exploitative employer, perhaps one of the worst,
it also is a destroyer of small businesses. It also destroys the
assortment of goods available by stressing and selling merchandise of
mediocre quality.





--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Jim" wrote in message
news:HaVZa.86308$Oz4.21591@rwcrnsc54...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Since Walmart is trading at it's 52 week high, I'd say that
Rochester's
"huge backlash" isn't working out so well, is it?




Wal-Mart sucks, from about every point imaginable.
me.


Is there *anything* in life that meets with your approval that is not
associated with
labor unions or the Democratic party?

I would hate to have to walk a mile in *your* shoes.

Me too. If they were "union made", they're probably too expensive and of
very poor quality.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Since Walmart is trading at it's 52 week high, I'd say that
Rochester's
"huge backlash" isn't working out so well, is it?




Wal-Mart sucks, from about every point imaginable.
me.


Is there *anything* in life that meets with your approval that is not
associated with
labor unions or the Democratic party?

I would hate to have to walk a mile in *your* shoes.


Wal-Mart is not only an exploitative employer, perhaps one of the worst,
it also is a destroyer of small businesses. It also destroys the
assortment of goods available by stressing and selling merchandise of
mediocre quality.

I do a lot of my shopping for fishing supplies at Wal-Mart. They sell many
of the top names in reels, rods, hooks, lures, tackle boxes, and line. Why
should I pay $4.99 for Sabiki's at my local tackle shop, when Wally World
has 'em for a buck?

Also, Sam's Choice Water is cheaper than most others, tastes better, and
freezes without splitting the bottles.

Finally, long after Boater's World and West Marine have closed, I can pick
up bait, outboard oil, spark plugs, life jackets, or anything else I might
need for the next day's boating trip.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Since Walmart is trading at it's 52 week high, I'd say that Rochester's
"huge backlash" isn't working out so well, is it?




Wal-Mart sucks, from about every point imaginable.
me.


Is there *anything* in life that meets with your approval that is not associated
with
labor unions or the Democratic party?

I would hate to have to walk a mile in *your* shoes.


Wal-Mart is not only an exploitative employer, perhaps one of the worst,
it also is a destroyer of small businesses.

That trend happened well before Wal-Mart. And such is life today.

It also destroys the
assortment of goods available by stressing and selling merchandise of
mediocre quality.

Wal-Mart has effectively taken a lions share of the retail market from K-Mart. This
did not happen by accident but by providing customers with clean stores. courteous help
and shelves stocked with reasonably priced merchandise.

People shop at Wal-Mart because of perceived value and convenience. If they want
better quality merchandise they can always shop elsewhere. I see no guns at the heads
of people shopping there.

Or is your beef with Wal-Mart because they are non-union and have resisted all attempts
to unionize?

Me thinks so.

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/weekly_a..._in_vegas.html

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Since Walmart is trading at it's 52 week high, I'd say that Rochester's
"huge backlash" isn't working out so well, is it?




Wal-Mart sucks, from about every point imaginable.

Not from every point. For a sound investment, you can't beat its stock.

There's a reason they're the number one retailer *and* the number one grocer
in the country.


I'm glad you don't like it, however..'cause then I don't have to worry about
ever running into you there.



His dislike of the store is because they are grabbing business previously held by union
grocery stores.

Wal-Mart remains non union despite numerous attempts to unionize it by the United Food
& Commercial Workers (UFCW) thugs.

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:

"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

Since Walmart is trading at it's 52 week high, I'd say that Rochester's
"huge backlash" isn't working out so well, is it?




Wal-Mart sucks, from about every point imaginable.

Not from every point. For a sound investment, you can't beat its stock.

There's a reason they're the number one retailer *and* the number one grocer
in the country.


I'm glad you don't like it, however..'cause then I don't have to worry about
ever running into you there.



His dislike of the store is because they are grabbing business previously held by
union
grocery stores.


1. I've stated my reasons for disliking Wal-Mart. Nothing to do with
your stated reason.

2. None of the Wal-Marts in my area include grocery stores.


But keep trying to "imagine" what I think.



You somehow left this out of my message:

"Wal-Mart remains non union despite numerous attempts to unionize it by the United Food
& Commercial Workers (UFCW) thugs."

Was that just a coincidence Harry?

Economy Rebounds - Productivity Soars, Jobless Claims Drop
 

Jim wrote:


You somehow left this out of my message:

"Wal-Mart remains..."

Was that just a coincidence Harry?

Just more right-wing krap. Doesn't bear repeating.

--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.