"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
With credit to NOYB for bringing this up in another thread, and with the
understanding
it deserves a separate thread to counter the lib claims of record
unemployment and a
worsening economy, here are some facts on the growing economy:

Ya got balz, Jim.

Your report does not support what you purport! You can run that skunk out of
the bushes all afternoon and try to convince us country boys it's really a
black and white house cat, but the perfume gives it away nonetheless.

Let's look at a few of the details in the report you're so proud of, shall we?

new claims for unemployment benefits dropped to
a six-month low

A one-week drop in the number of "new claims" for unemployment only means that
the layoffs have slowed down a little bit.
Has nothing to do with how many people are employed, merely defines the rate at
which new people are joining the ranks of the unemployed. As the work force
shrinks, layoffs will naturally slow down. Much of the deadwood has already
been chopped- along with a good bit of the forest core.

Simple math: as the workforce shrinks, a decreasing number of people losing
their jobs in a given week can actually represent
a steady or even increasing *percentage* of the diminishing base.


Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one week drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to. The fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.




Productivity -- the amount that an employee produces per hour of work -- grew
at an
annual rate of 5.7 percent in the April to June quarter, the best showing
since the
third quarter of 2002, the Labor Department reported Thursday.

Good news for employers and investors, true. How does this get our people back
to work?


Another spin on your part. The fact is that productivity increased for 2 straight
quarters.


In a second report from the department, new applications for jobless benefits
fell by a
seasonally adjusted 3,000 to a six-month low of 390,000 for the work week
ending Aug.
2. It marked the third week in a row that claims were below 400,000, a level
associated
with a weak job market.

400,000 layoffs a week is considered a "weak job market?" No doubt. So, if only
390,000 people are involuntarily separated from the source of their paychecks
the Bush Administration is doing a whiz-bang job of managing the economy? Your
standards are far too relaxed.

I have some things I have to get done tonight. I will respond to the rest of your
dribble tomorrow.

Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one week
drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to. The
fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.

If it did, that fact is *not supported* by this news account. The news story
simply says that the rate at which additional people became unemployed slowed
down.
Where, oh where, does it say the total number of people working went up?

It does say that employers are using the productivity increases to "pare" the
workforce a bit. To me, that means decrease the workforce.

Good news for employers and investors, true. How does this get our people
back
to work?


Another spin on your part. The fact is that productivity increased for 2
straight
quarters.

The discussion has been centered around unemployment, not productivity. For
years, we made huge gains in productivity by replacing people with computers.
Ten typists fired, two programmers hired, and productivity per employee is way
up. I am not disputing your productivity claim.

Your
standards are far too relaxed.

I have some things I have to get done tonight. I will respond to the rest of
your
dribble tomorrow.



If you're responding to "dribble", your standards are not only relaxed, they
are unconscious.

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 03:06:02 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one week drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to. The fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.


I'm only jumping into this, because it is somewhat related to boating,
as this economy is impacting all industries.

It has not been shown that unemployment dropped, only that the folks
being put out of work dropped. Not that alone, the media that spins
this news routinely forgets to mention that thousands of folks finally
run out of their benefits, and are no longer a "statistic." It
doesn't mean they've entered the workforce, or it would show in other
data. Jobs are moving overseas, and will continue to do so.
Companies are myopic in this regard, because their only concern is
profits, which makes corporate executives rich, and gives analysts
their fuel to prosper.

Another spin on your part. The fact is that productivity increased for 2 straight
quarters.

Spin? Productivity.........Part of Greenspan's "new economy."
Productivity is wonderful for corporate America, as it drives, that's
right, profits. Take a look at what the media and analysts purport to
be "surprisingly good earnings" for Q2. Earnings on cost cutting, tax
benefits, aquisitions, and a weak dollar are not earnings.

Companies are now finding that they can squeeze more work out of each
employee, so they're unlikely to hire. Moreover, they'll use these
current metrics when the economy does start to recover, so as business
does improve, the rate of adding new employees will be much lower than
in the past. Q2 GDP was driven almost exclusively by mortgage
activity, and with interest rates surging upward, GDP likely won't see
this benefit in Q3.

Bear in mind that you don't see the full story unless you dig for it.
The media, analysts and economists work in concert to spin even poor
data, making sure everyone has a good prescription for their rose
colored glasses. Talk to folks on the front line, and they'll look at
you cross-eyed if you start talking "recovery".

"SeaDweller" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 03:06:02 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one week drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to. The fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.


I'm only jumping into this, because it is somewhat related to boating,
as this economy is impacting all industries.

It has not been shown that unemployment dropped, only that the folks
being put out of work dropped. Not that alone, the media that spins
this news routinely forgets to mention that thousands of folks finally
run out of their benefits, and are no longer a "statistic." It
doesn't mean they've entered the workforce, or it would show in other
data. Jobs are moving overseas, and will continue to do so.
Companies are myopic in this regard, because their only concern is
profits, which makes corporate executives rich, and gives analysts
their fuel to prosper.

Unemployment rates have been calculated in exactly the same way for decades. If you
find flaw in the way they are developed I suggest you contact the US BLS.



Another spin on your part. The fact is that productivity increased for 2 straight
quarters.

Spin? Productivity.........Part of Greenspan's "new economy."
Productivity is wonderful for corporate America, as it drives, that's
right, profits. Take a look at what the media and analysts purport to
be "surprisingly good earnings" for Q2. Earnings on cost cutting, tax
benefits, aquisitions, and a weak dollar are not earnings.

Companies are now finding that they can squeeze more work out of each
employee, so they're unlikely to hire. Moreover, they'll use these
current metrics when the economy does start to recover, so as business
does improve, the rate of adding new employees will be much lower than
in the past. Q2 GDP was driven almost exclusively by mortgage
activity, and with interest rates surging upward, GDP likely won't see
this benefit in Q3.

With greater productivity comes higher corporate profits (that is, afterall, what
companies are in business for, correct?) which leads to expansions and more employees.
That is Economy 101.

The productivity rate increased to 5.7%, almost twice the annual average of 2.8% from
'96 to '02.

Jobless claims also fell almost 1%, the lowest since February, 03.

The economy also expanded last quarter at a 2.4% annual rate, a full % point faster
than the first quarter '03.

The Dow and NASDAQ have shown strong gains the 1st 2 quarters of this year.

Add it all together and the end result will be more people working and lower
unemployment. We have already seen a dip in unemployment from June to July.

You put whatever negative spin you want on it but the numbers show otherwise.

On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 12:34:08 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:

Unemployment rates have been calculated in exactly the same way for decades. If you
find flaw in the way they are developed I suggest you contact the US BLS.

There's certainly flaws in the data, but at least these same flaws are
carried over month-to-month! You're confusing new claims with the
unemployment rate, and they are not one in the same. New claims are
declining, but that doesn't mean the core unemployment rate is
declining. If more folks are put out of work than are hired, what do
you think occurs?

The unemployment rate fell in July, but not because businesses were
creating jobs -- it's because more than a half million people took
themselves out of the workforce.

With greater productivity comes higher corporate profits (that is, afterall, what
companies are in business for, correct?) which leads to expansions and more employees.
That is Economy 101.

Indeed, but therein lies the core issue.........Corporate earnings
(profits) are coming from increased productivity and cost cutting, not
increases in revenue. How can companies expand and add more employees
if their revenues are flat? Don't forget supply and demand in your
discussion of Economics 101.

You put whatever negative spin you want on it but the numbers show otherwise.

I'm not trying to put a negative spin on the numbers, they speak for
themselves.

"Jim" wrote in message
news:usEYa.92129$uu5.12579@sccrnsc04...

Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one
week drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to.
The fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.


Hmmm. Wait till they tally up Kodak's latest round of layoffs. Another 5,000
will bite the dust shortly.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Excerpt:
"U.S. Rep. Pete Visclosky, D-1st, and U.S. Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind.,
have made another move in their efforts to prevent the closure of the
Magnequench facility in Valparaiso and its re-location to the People's
Republic of China."

hahaha Follow the link!!!

--
Q

If we ever declare war on China, we're screwed. They'll just refuse to
sell us
any munitions. :-)

When's the last time you found shoes or boots made in this country? Danner
Boot Co. still makes boots for SOME government agencies, but if the feds
stop supporting them and that business ends up in China, we're phucked. Who
needs ammo when your army hasn't got shoes? Perhaps we'll equip Army Rangers
with Nike or New Balance hoops shoes, assuming the country of origin hasn't
been conquered by some terrorist group. In that case, we should be able to
make our own flip-flops from recycled tires, and go to war dressed like the
Viet Cong.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
news:usEYa.92129$uu5.12579@sccrnsc04...

Ahh, but if you bothered to read my entire post, it was not only a one
week drop I
reported but a drop in the month of July. Spin it anyway you want to.
The fact is
that unemployment dropped in July.


Hmmm. Wait till they tally up Kodak's latest round of layoffs. Another
5,000
will bite the dust shortly.

It's not Bush's fault the World has gone digital. I haven't used dental film
in 4 years and regular film in 2 years.