Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

My dad is thinking about buying a sportboat.
Want to be able to waterski
Carry say 8 persons
But also maybe fish on open sea (Carib)
Also butget wise he is thinking of a Bayliner 215 Classic.
I'm wondering what is the (open) seaworthiness of such a Bayliner?

TIA
Frank

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

Snoopy wrote:

My dad is thinking about buying a sportboat.
Want to be able to waterski
Carry say 8 persons
But also maybe fish on open sea (Carib)
Also butget wise he is thinking of a Bayliner 215 Classic.
I'm wondering what is the (open) seaworthiness of such a Bayliner?

TIA
Frank


Low, but more because of its design (which is shared by lots of
manufacturers) than its nameplate. Boats of that size and style in the
hands of newbies are best kept within sight of shore.

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:02:24 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Snoopy wrote:

My dad is thinking about buying a sportboat.
Want to be able to waterski
Carry say 8 persons
But also maybe fish on open sea (Carib)
Also butget wise he is thinking of a Bayliner 215 Classic.
I'm wondering what is the (open) seaworthiness of such a Bayliner?

TIA
Frank


Low, but more because of its design (which is shared by lots of
manufacturers) than its nameplate. Boats of that size and style in the
hands of newbies are best kept within sight of shore.

What specifically about it's design? The hull design ? If so are the
comparable boats from other manufactures with better hull design for
offshore.
At which specs should we be looking at for better offshore
performance.

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

Snoopy wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 12:02:24 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Snoopy wrote:

My dad is thinking about buying a sportboat.
Want to be able to waterski
Carry say 8 persons
But also maybe fish on open sea (Carib)
Also butget wise he is thinking of a Bayliner 215 Classic.
I'm wondering what is the (open) seaworthiness of such a Bayliner?

TIA
Frank


Low, but more because of its design (which is shared by lots of
manufacturers) than its nameplate. Boats of that size and style in the
hands of newbies are best kept within sight of shore.

What specifically about it's design? The hull design ? If so are the
comparable boats from other manufactures with better hull design for
offshore.
At which specs should we be looking at for better offshore
performance.



Closed bow, more freeboard, taller bow, more bow flare, fewer seats
(fewer people onboard), larger fuel tanks, double batteries, full
electronics.
I don't know that boat's specifics, but I'd bet it has fuel capacity of
less than 50 gallons and a large V6 or small V8 engine.
Of course, I'm not sure what you mean by open sea. Are youplanning to go
20 or more miles offshore? What have you in mind?

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

i had an older 20ft cuddy. took in in Half Moon Bay for fishing in chops
and12ft swells.


Jim




Snoopy wrote:

My dad is thinking about buying a sportboat.
Want to be able to waterski
Carry say 8 persons
But also maybe fish on open sea (Carib)
Also butget wise he is thinking of a Bayliner 215 Classic.
I'm wondering what is the (open) seaworthiness of such a Bayliner?

TIA
Frank

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

I don't believe this thread exists. [head shakes]

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

On 17 Jul 2004 23:06:36 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

I don't believe this thread exists. [head shakes]


Ok you exists (unfortunately)
Now crawl back under your stone! [sigh]

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

I don't believe this thread exists. [head shakes]

Worse yet, I'm sure that somebody is about to chime in and *insist* that a
21-foot Bayliner has a diesel engine.

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

Hi Frank,

If you are planning extensive offshore usage in anything but ideal weather
and conditions, you will want to re-think a Bayliner. Bayliners have a bad
reputation for hull failures in heavy water. (See N.T.S.B. sinking reports
at Coast Guard website.) Also, the boat is built with a lot of wood, which
rots eventually. This is why they are so cheap to get into. Bayliners also
depreciate very fast too. If budget is your primary motivation, you would be
better off with a better quality used boat.

Capt. Frank Hopkins
www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks



"Snoopy" wrote in message
...
My dad is thinking about buying a sportboat.
Want to be able to waterski
Carry say 8 persons
But also maybe fish on open sea (Carib)
Also butget wise he is thinking of a Bayliner 215 Classic.
I'm wondering what is the (open) seaworthiness of such a Bayliner?

TIA
Frank

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I don't believe this thread exists. [head shakes]

Worse yet, I'm sure that somebody is about to chime in and *insist* that a
21-foot Bayliner has a diesel engine.

A 21-foot Bayliner requires a diesel engine to go more than 500' offshore.
That good enough Chuck?

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

"Frank Hopkins" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi Frank,

If you are planning extensive offshore usage in anything but ideal weather
and conditions, you will want to re-think a Bayliner. Bayliners have a bad
reputation for hull failures in heavy water. (See N.T.S.B. sinking reports
at Coast Guard website.) Also, the boat is built with a lot of wood, which
rots eventually. This is why they are so cheap to get into. Bayliners also
depreciate very fast too. If budget is your primary motivation, you would
be
better off with a better quality used boat.

Capt. Frank Hopkins
www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks



"Snoopy" wrote in message
...
My dad is thinking about buying a sportboat.
Want to be able to waterski
Carry say 8 persons
But also maybe fish on open sea (Carib)
Also butget wise he is thinking of a Bayliner 215 Classic.
I'm wondering what is the (open) seaworthiness of such a Bayliner?

TIA
Frank



They do not sink anymore than most other boats. May be more Bayliner
sinkings, but there are more Bayliners. A 21' Bayliner, and most other 21'
boats are not going to handle 8 people very well. I have a 21' Forward
Console I/B boat and it would be really crowded with 8, I can run with 6
with comfort. And the Carib is a lot calmer most days than the Pacific
ocean off Northern Calif, and people fish a lot of Bayliners here. Most the
Trophy version.
Bill

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

A 21-foot Bayliner requires a diesel engine to go more than 500' offshore.
That good enough Chuck?

Only if it has spark plugs, and has to be rebuilt every 700 hours. :-)

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

If you are planning extensive offshore usage in anything but ideal weather
and conditions, you will want to re-think a Bayliner. Bayliners have a bad
reputation for hull failures in heavy water. (See N.T.S.B. sinking reports
at Coast Guard website.)

Link, please.

To a USCG cite that establishes Bayliners have a "reputation for hull failures"

I typed in "NTSB sinking reports" on the USCG search engine and got zip. I must
be doing something wrong, and I'd love to see the source of your impression.
Thanks

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
A 21-foot Bayliner requires a diesel engine to go more than 500'
offshore.
That good enough Chuck?

Only if it has spark plugs, and has to be rebuilt every 700 hours. :-)

Good one. I wonder at times why there are not more small diesel placed in
small fishing boats. When traveling in Europe, lots of small diesel cars.
1.5L size engines. These should make good fishing boat engines. I know
Mercruiser uses a Cummings 1.7L in some of their packages. e.g. 28' Procat.
Bill

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

Good one. I wonder at times why there are not more small diesel placed in
small fishing boats. When traveling in Europe, lots of small diesel cars.
1.5L size engines. These should make good fishing boat engines. I know
Mercruiser uses a Cummings 1.7L in some of their packages. e.g. 28' Procat.
Bill

I suspect we will see more diesel applications in the near future. I don't care
what the guys with the "for the price of a diesel egine I can afford to burn up
a lot of gasoline" argument say, I think the current economics of feeding 100
gph or more into twin 454's (at $2.50 -$3.00 a gallon) is going to inspire some
people who thought they had reached a gas vs. diesel conclusion to reconsider.

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

On 18 Jul 2004 14:10:56 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
I suspect we will see more diesel applications in the near future. I don't care
what the guys with the "for the price of a diesel egine I can afford to burn up
a lot of gasoline" argument say, I think the current economics of feeding 100
gph or more into twin 454's (at $2.50 -$3.00 a gallon) is going to inspire some
people who thought they had reached a gas vs. diesel conclusion to reconsider.
=====================================

Let's not make this worse than it is. Twin 454s typically burn 30 to
40 gph at cruising speed (3200 RPM). I owned and fed a pair of 454s
for five years. The cost is certainly enough to make you think twice
about going out for a 3 or 4 hour ride at about $100 per hour.

I've gone to the dark side and bought a diesel trawler that has a
whole new array of options for burning money. :-)

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Good one. I wonder at times why there are not more small diesel placed
in
small fishing boats. When traveling in Europe, lots of small diesel
cars.
1.5L size engines. These should make good fishing boat engines. I know
Mercruiser uses a Cummings 1.7L in some of their packages. e.g. 28'
Procat.
Bill

I suspect we will see more diesel applications in the near future. I don't
care
what the guys with the "for the price of a diesel egine I can afford to
burn up
a lot of gasoline" argument say, I think the current economics of feeding
100
gph or more into twin 454's (at $2.50 -$3.00 a gallon) is going to inspire
some
people who thought they had reached a gas vs. diesel conclusion to
reconsider.

I am not talking about the highpower / big dollar diesels. Lots of small
econocars in Europe are diesel. Most of the small 1-2 person commercial
fishing boats, about 22' long are diesel.
Bill

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Good one. I wonder at times why there are not more small diesel placed
in
small fishing boats. When traveling in Europe, lots of small diesel
cars.
1.5L size engines. These should make good fishing boat engines. I know
Mercruiser uses a Cummings 1.7L in some of their packages. e.g. 28'
Procat.
Bill

I suspect we will see more diesel applications in the near future. I don't
care
what the guys with the "for the price of a diesel egine I can afford to
burn up
a lot of gasoline" argument say, I think the current economics of feeding
100
gph or more into twin 454's (at $2.50 -$3.00 a gallon) is going to inspire
some
people who thought they had reached a gas vs. diesel conclusion to
reconsider.

I am not talking about the highpower / big dollar diesels. Lots of small
econocars in Europe are diesel. Most of the small 1-2 person commercial
fishing boats, about 22' long are diesel.
Bill



It's too bad Yanmar stopped the marketing of outboard diesels in this
country.

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll...if you still consider a Trophy as a
Bayliner then YES! The Trophy 2052 (21' 7" LOA - other manufacturers call
it 21 foot...Trophy calls it 20 foot) does come with a diesel. lol Link is
he
http://www.trophyfishing.com/index.a...eqtype=1 ,8,9

Of course Trophy has been it's own company since the end of 2001 but it does
have it's roots in Bayliner.

--

"There is no terrorist threat in this country. This is a lie. This is the
biggest lie we've been told." Michael Moore, October 2003


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I don't believe this thread exists. [head shakes]

Worse yet, I'm sure that somebody is about to chime in and *insist* that a
21-foot Bayliner has a diesel engine.

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

Mole wrote:

Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll...if you still consider a Trophy as a
Bayliner then YES! The Trophy 2052 (21' 7" LOA - other manufacturers call
it 21 foot...Trophy calls it 20 foot) does come with a diesel. lol Link is
he
http://www.trophyfishing.com/index.a...eqtype=1 ,8,9

Of course Trophy has been it's own company since the end of 2001 but it does
have it's roots in Bayliner.



It isn't its own company. Bayliner simply stopped using the "Bayliner"
name in connection with Trophy boats for marketing reasons.

The problem with the "diesel" Trophy has nothing to do with the fact it
is mounted in a Bayliner. The problem is that it is mounted in
conjunction with an I/O.

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

Snoopy wrote in message . ..
My dad is thinking about buying a sportboat.
Want to be able to waterski
Carry say 8 persons
But also maybe fish on open sea (Carib)
Also butget wise he is thinking of a Bayliner 215 Classic.
I'm wondering what is the (open) seaworthiness of such a Bayliner?

TIA
Frank

Problem is not brand, its design. I have a freind w/ a 215 Bayliner
and you'll do fine pulling a skier w/ 3 or 4 people on board, or
taking 8 out to watch the fireworks, moonrise, etc on the bay. The
problem is that any open bowrider with no flare, low freeboard, and no
cabin structure could get hammered in even moderate seas, especially
head seas. You're looking for an awful lot in one boat, let alone a
small and inexpensive one.

FishFan...( former BL owner)

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Good one. I wonder at times why there are not more small diesel
placed
in
small fishing boats. When traveling in Europe, lots of small diesel
cars.
1.5L size engines. These should make good fishing boat engines. I
know
Mercruiser uses a Cummings 1.7L in some of their packages. e.g. 28'
Procat.
Bill

I suspect we will see more diesel applications in the near future. I
don't
care
what the guys with the "for the price of a diesel egine I can afford to
burn up
a lot of gasoline" argument say, I think the current economics of
feeding
100
gph or more into twin 454's (at $2.50 -$3.00 a gallon) is going to
inspire
some
people who thought they had reached a gas vs. diesel conclusion to
reconsider.

I am not talking about the highpower / big dollar diesels. Lots of
small
econocars in Europe are diesel. Most of the small 1-2 person commercial
fishing boats, about 22' long are diesel.
Bill



It's too bad Yanmar stopped the marketing of outboard diesels in this
country.

Way to expensive for most boats. Fiat makes the Brava. Very nice car, 1.2L
diesel and sells for £12-16,000. Less than a yanmar diesel O/B. Renault
has a 4 cyl 1.4L for their cars.
Bill

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

Also Sprach Harry Krause :

Closed bow, more freeboard, taller bow, more bow flare, fewer seats
(fewer people onboard), larger fuel tanks, double batteries, full
electronics.
I don't know that boat's specifics, but I'd bet it has fuel capacity of
less than 50 gallons and a large V6 or small V8 engine.

Oh, I would have KILLED to have had a camera with me today.

Driving home from a nice weekend in the San Juan islands today, we passed
a guy towing a 24' Bayliner. The guy had not one, not two, but THREE
portable gas tanks bungee corded to his swim platform. Two jerry cans and
one 6 gallon portable tank with hose. Only thing better would have been
if he had his fenders hanging out on the interstate at 70MPH. :)

Of course MY Bayliner now has adequate tankage, thanks to a lot of
retrofit work while I was replacing the rotten floor and stringers last
year. I figure that 36 gallons is adequate for a 19' boat with a 140HP
outboard. Better than the 12 gallon tank that it came with, anyway.

Dan


--
The Apocalypse is INVISCID!

-- Gary Yngve

(on modeling nuclear explosions with the Navier-Stokes equations.)

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

Marshall Banana wrote:

Also Sprach Harry Krause :

Closed bow, more freeboard, taller bow, more bow flare, fewer seats
(fewer people onboard), larger fuel tanks, double batteries, full
electronics.
I don't know that boat's specifics, but I'd bet it has fuel capacity of
less than 50 gallons and a large V6 or small V8 engine.

Oh, I would have KILLED to have had a camera with me today.

Driving home from a nice weekend in the San Juan islands today, we passed
a guy towing a 24' Bayliner. The guy had not one, not two, but THREE
portable gas tanks bungee corded to his swim platform. Two jerry cans and
one 6 gallon portable tank with hose. Only thing better would have been
if he had his fenders hanging out on the interstate at 70MPH. :)

Of course MY Bayliner now has adequate tankage, thanks to a lot of
retrofit work while I was replacing the rotten floor and stringers last
year. I figure that 36 gallons is adequate for a 19' boat with a 140HP
outboard. Better than the 12 gallon tank that it came with, anyway.

Dan


Hmmm...did the boat being hauled have a Kansas plate on its trailer?

Your 19-footer had a 12-gallon tank? Cripes.

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

"Frank Hopkins" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi Frank,

If you are planning extensive offshore usage in anything but ideal weather
and conditions, you will want to re-think a Bayliner. Bayliners have a bad
reputation for hull failures in heavy water. (See N.T.S.B. sinking reports
at Coast Guard website.) Also, the boat is built with a lot of wood, which
rots eventually. This is why they are so cheap to get into. Bayliners also
depreciate very fast too. If budget is your primary motivation, you would
be
better off with a better quality used boat.

Capt. Frank Hopkins
www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks

Can't find the sinking reports, got a link?

Glenn

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:37:52 -0400, "Glenn Deneweth"
wrote:

Can't find the sinking reports, got a link?

===================

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...stics_2000.pdf

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:37:52 -0400, "Glenn Deneweth"
wrote:

Can't find the sinking reports, got a link?

===================

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...stics_2000.pdf


Still trying to find the statistics on the Coast Guard site, (reported by Capt.
Frank) establishing that Bayliner boats have a reputation for hull failures on
an open sea.

Scaning all 42 pages fom the link just furnished reveals *no* data broken down
by brand name.

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

On 19 Jul 2004 20:04:52 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Scaning all 42 pages fom the link just furnished reveals *no* data broken down
by brand name.

============================================

That's correct as I read it also. It does have statistics for
virtually every mode of accident and every type of boat however. If
one had access to the raw database instead of just the summary, I
suspect a breakdown by brand would be possible also, but apparently
they have chosen not to do that publicly. Too bad, it would be an
interesting but meaningless statistic.

Newbee question. Bayliners on open sea
 

None at all. I wouldn't take that boat anywhere but a lake or an inland bay.

Paul