Only if somebody teaches them to not be a menace to themselves and others
first.

30 years ago when I was taken canoeing by my YMCA day camp, they spend
some time in a secluded bay teaching us strokes and how to handle the
canoes before being sent into a popular paddling area. These morons
didn't even TRY to steer or stop. They didn't even say "sorry".

Ok, you were in a kayak and couldn't avoid a boat load of little girls...and
you are ****ed. Get over it

Ok, you were in a kayak and couldn't avoid a boat load of little girls...and
you are ****ed. Get over it

I would have to concur. A canoe with neither paddle in the water is a
bit like a log, something I would expect on a river.

In your defense, I have tought Guides canoeing on ponds. ( never moving
water ). It's not like the Scouts or Guides to leave themselves open to
litigation from parents if there is any incompitance. ( Perhaps
something you may want to look at ) .
There are other groups here that have access to canoes and equipnent.
Junior Forest Wardens in my community have 20 boats 18 open canoes and
2 sea kayaks as well as one club specific canoe and two rec kayaks. The
Boy Scouts have some boats and a trailer; church groups , Cadets and a
community next to ours have trailers and boats.

You are not getting much sympathy from this group. It is a little like
the kid on the Simpsons that goes " Ha Ha! "

If there is an up side you will be fine. You could have ripped up your
shoulder. That just refuses to get better.
Good luck and get well soon.

I would lighten up on the kids though. Was their master aware they hit
you?
Alex

In a previous article, said:
Ok, you were in a kayak and couldn't avoid a boat load of little girls...and
you are ****ed. Get over it

I would have to concur. A canoe with neither paddle in the water is a
bit like a log, something I would expect on a river.

Considering how little control they had, they were moving pretty fast.
But they were doing that "everybody paddle on this side, now everybody
paddle on the other side" zig zag thing. They didn't take their paddles
out of the water until they were on a collision course with me.

If there is an up side you will be fine. You could have ripped up your
shoulder. That just refuses to get better.
Good luck and get well soon.

Thanks.

I would lighten up on the kids though. Was their master aware they hit
you?

Probably, but the pain wasn't that bad at first so I didn't complain to
him. It was only when I tried to take the kayak out of the water that I
realized how much trouble I was in.

The worst thing is that I was due to fly up to see my kids the following
weekend, but I can't fly with this stupid cast. By the time it comes off,
I'm going to have to do an Instrument Proficiency Check with an instructor
before I fly again.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
please excuse my typing, but my whole left arm is in a cast. and i don't
mean _the king and i_.

The first time you were on moving water could you control your boat
perfectly or have you never in your paddling history run into anyone?

Other than the color of their life jackets being yellow, did anyone actually
say they were from the girl scouts? I don't remember you saying that you
actually heard that from them.

If these were boys scouts would you have been just as offended? You seemed
to really be dogging them out because they were girls.

C.

Courtney, don't you get it? Paul lives his life as an
angry man. He'll find a way to be angry no matter what the
scenario. You on the otherhand have your entire future
ahead of you. If you turn all events into discrimination
against women and girls you will turn out like Paul. You
are not a victim but you don't believe your not.

The first time you were on moving water could you control your boat
perfectly or have you never in your paddling history run into anyone?

Other than the color of their life jackets being yellow, did anyone actually
say they were from the girl scouts? I don't remember you saying that you
actually heard that from them.

If these were boys scouts would you have been just as offended? You seemed
to really be dogging them out because they were girls.

C.

..

In a previous article, John said:
angry man. He'll find a way to be angry no matter what the
scenario. You on the otherhand have your entire future

*plonk*

Moron.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
please excuse my typing, but my whole left arm is in a cast. and i don't
mean _the king and i_.

Personally I really don't care. I think this is all pretty comical.

C.

John wrote in message ...
Courtney, don't you get it? Paul lives his life as an
angry man. He'll find a way to be angry no matter what the
scenario. You on the otherhand have your entire future
ahead of you. If you turn all events into discrimination
against women and girls you will turn out like Paul. You
are not a victim but you don't believe your not.

The first time you were on moving water could you control your boat
perfectly or have you never in your paddling history run into anyone?

Other than the color of their life jackets being yellow, did anyone
actually
say they were from the girl scouts? I don't remember you saying that
you
actually heard that from them.

If these were boys scouts would you have been just as offended? You
seemed
to really be dogging them out because they were girls.

C.

.

In a previous article, "Courtney" said:
The first time you were on moving water could you control your boat
perfectly or have you never in your paddling history run into anyone?

As I said earlier, the first time I was on the water, I was given a few
minutes of instruction on basic canoe control before I was allowed to go
somewhere where I could be a menace to myself and others. This flotilla
of doom had both girls and boys in it, and most of them didn't know what
the hell they were doing. I think it's irresponsible of leaders to set
kids loose without basic instruction. If that had been my kids (and if I
hadn't given them instruction already) and I saw them lurching along like
that, I would have pulled them out of whatever program they were in and
found another program with competent leadership.

If these were boys scouts would you have been just as offended? You seemed
to really be dogging them out because they were girls.

What the hell difference does their gender make? I identified them as
girls because that's what they were, not because that makes any
difference in the idiocy of sending kids out with no instruction. I'd
like to know where you got this idea I was "dogging them out because they
were girls". I think you're revealing your own predjudices.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
please excuse my typing, but my whole left arm is in a cast. and i don't
mean _the king and i_.

Paul Tomblin wrote:
: In a previous article, "Courtney" said:
:The first time you were on moving water could you control your boat
:perfectly or have you never in your paddling history run into anyone?

: As I said earlier, the first time I was on the water, I was given a few
: minutes of instruction on basic canoe control before I was allowed to go
: somewhere where I could be a menace to myself and others. This flotilla
: of doom had both girls and boys in it, and most of them didn't know what
: the hell they were doing. I think it's irresponsible of leaders to set
: kids loose without basic instruction. If that had been my kids (and if I
: hadn't given them instruction already) and I saw them lurching along like
: that, I would have pulled them out of whatever program they were in and
: found another program with competent leadership.

Well... first let me say that I'm a boy scout leader... nether the boy scouts
nor the girl scouts allow youth members of the opposing genders (there are no
boys in girl scouts and there are no girls in boy scouts).

That said... we've done canoe and kayak trips (we built our own kayaks... took
3 months in the church basement for each kid to complete... I had Marge Cline
and a few other instructors come out and do a class in a local lake before
we started using the kayaks we built... but, before we were allowed to do
any of that... myself and another adult went thru Safe Swim and Safety Afloat
training... and three of us huffed thru a lifeguard class (800 yard swim was
tiring), and became CPR certified... Scouts have lots of rules including
requiring training for adults, safety certifications and training for the
scouts.

We did a trip across the State of Illinois... hiking, biking and paddling...
the boys did enough miles to earn hiking (75 miles) and cycling (150 miles)
merit badges... canoeing merit badge doesn't have distance requirments so
they all earned that at summer camp.

Since the youth group wasn't paying attention to you but you saw them, did
you announce yourself or announce that you were passing? Even on bikes or
walking, if someone isn't looking at you and you are passing them, it's
polite to say "Passing on your right" (or left) or just say "On your right"
(or left) so they aren't startled when a object starts to pass... When kids
are goofing around, they are in a world all their own... think back to when
you were a kid... a polite word from the outside world usually gets their
attention back in order...

Here's a pic of our kayaks... cost about $25 per boy... the skin is that
plastic coocooning material they use to winterize sailboats and I got it
for $4 per boat from a local boat shop. Had each kid save 12*1 gallon
milk jugs with lids for flotation.. tied to internal wood frame...

http://www.chicagopaddling.org/lilyak.jpg

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

In a previous article, Chicago Paddling-Fishing said:
Paul Tomblin wrote:
: kids loose without basic instruction. If that had been my kids (and if I
: hadn't given them instruction already) and I saw them lurching along like
: that, I would have pulled them out of whatever program they were in and
: found another program with competent leadership.

Well... first let me say that I'm a boy scout leader... nether the boy scouts
nor the girl scouts allow youth members of the opposing genders (there are no
boys in girl scouts and there are no girls in boy scouts).

Ok, I apologize for characterizing them as "Scouts". In rural Canada,
where I'm originally from, we do have mixed gender Scout organizations.
And some of them are very badly run because they take whoever they can get
to volunteer.

Since the youth group wasn't paying attention to you but you saw them, did
you announce yourself or announce that you were passing? Even on bikes or

We were going in opposite directions - they were coming upriver, I was
coming down. They were on one side of the river, I was on the other until
they lurched across.

This picture
http://xcski.com/gallery/kayaking/DSCN2133
shows the river a few weeks previously, a different group (like I said in
my original post, the local kayak rental place uses blue PFDs, the one in
the orange is very definitely this group's leader), and about 500 metres
upstream from where I was injured. But you can see that it's wide enough
that one should be able to squeeze by.


Here's a pic of our kayaks... cost about $25 per boy... the skin is that
plastic coocooning material they use to winterize sailboats and I got it
for $4 per boat from a local boat shop. Had each kid save 12*1 gallon
milk jugs with lids for flotation.. tied to internal wood frame...

http://www.chicagopaddling.org/lilyak.jpg

Cool stuff.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
please excuse my typing, but my whole left arm is in a cast. and i don't
mean _the king and i_.