"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 00:54:29 GMT, otnmbrd
wrote

Much of this points up my problems with the USCG having total control of
licensing/documentation of licenses.


Don't be too hard on the USCG... your complaints are systemic to ALL
licensure done by the Federal Government.

BG Don't get me wrong, I get along well with the CG, but the system needs
review and I think, basic revision.


Although we work in the same "medium", how we go about it and what we
have to know can be, and frequently is, two different animals.

The process of documenting ones time is open to much creativity in the
smaller (SixPac -25ton) grades, that I must agree, can be and always
will be subject to some disgression.

This is an issue of ownership.... not tied directly to the 25 ton
license. Any *owner,* if prone to dishonesty, can "document" all sorts
of time on the company vessel.

Here you have different tonnage vessels requiring different paperwork, but
for some this is indeed true.




This doesn't really work any better. In aviation, an applicant for a
license must take a written test, an oral test, and a practical
test... and doofuses still pass through the system.... mostly those
with "experience" and no formal training. FAA, FCC, USCG, and other
use the same format in various ways. As for your example, I suspect
that the seaman who had trouble with the multiple guess format would
be even more challenged in writing an essay.

What are the qualifications of the FAA tester?
You will always get some "doofi" who will pass through.
The old system used question cards that were corrected by the tester on the
spot. The tester had the option to send someone back to rethink or give
extra questions to cover the issue ..... time was not the issue.
Although many people who have problems with test, may also have problems
with an essay or oral type exam, an examiner who is "up" on the subject can
frequently get a better read on how well the person knows the subject when
it is written or oral.
Some subjects/questions can be multiple choice, but many need to be "essay".
It's not a simple issue, but my feeling is it should be addressed ......
BG Oh well, I'm off to Hyannis for my one week of good food and relaxation
..... Standby "Black Cat".

otn

Chuck is absolutely right.

I use my Boston Whaler on the Pacific Ocean about 70 days a year. I'm
coming up on
having had it for 8 years. That's 560 days. The engine has 725 hours. I
have maybe six days on the Pacific that
qualify towards a Captain's license.


wrote in message
ups.com...

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:00:13 -0400, PocoLoco
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:19:58 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing

wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:08:08 -0400, PocoLoco
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I've a strong feeling there are a few folks right here in the group
who will
have a six pack license very soon now! (Or maybe they'll just *say*
they do!)

Is that a really bad thing though?

Even if you go to a school that teaches it's own test (which a lot of
these schools pretty much do), you still have to slog your way through
safety, regs, navigation (which in and of itself is a pretty valuable
education), signal recognition and you actually learn a lot even if it
is only to pass a test.

As to the experience thing, not everyone had a lot of experience and
at that, the OUPV is a qualifier of sorts as there are distance
qualifiers and the like. Around here, you see a lot of OUPV Captains
who has distance limits like 50 or 75miles, Inshore and you very
seldom see OUPV Captains with Near Shore qualifications.

I don't see the get your OUPV Captain's license schools as a bad thing
- I do see the under-qualified Master's as being a bad thing though.

That's one reason I downgraded mine because I really wasn't using it
and there really wasn't a reason for me to have it.

I disagree with using false pretenses to obtain recognition. That was
one of the
main reasons I didn't vote for Kerry.

For OUPV (Six Pack) license, it's 360 days of experience on any water
over any period of time with 90 of those days being within three years
plus passing a recognized school.

That's not hard to obtain even for the most casual boater.


Harder than you might imagine, if you hope to actually follow the
rules. You need to be *underway*, not just aboard, for a minimum of 4
hours. Motor out into the harbor for an hour, drop an anchor, shut down
the boat, fish all afternoon, motor back for an hour: zero time. Sit on
the boat in the marina or motor across the bay to the restuarant dock
for a cocktail? Zero time.

The lowest number of engine hours one could rack up and meet the
qualification would be 1440 hours - and only if the boat were never
operated for more or less than 4 hours. If you operate for 12 hours
straight, you can still only claim 1 day per 24/hour period. Most
people would need to operate 2000 engine hours plus; and for a lot of
pleasure boaters in short season climates we're talking about 20-25
years of operation to get 360 days of at least 4 hours underway
(legitimately).

I would personally be ashamed to "qualify" on the basis on a wink, a
nod, and a lie.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:59:29 -0700, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

Chuck is absolutely right.

Chuck has a point, but it's not a good one.

I use my Boston Whaler on the Pacific Ocean about 70 days a year. I'm
coming up on having had it for 8 years. That's 560 days. The engine
has 725 hours. I have maybe six days on the Pacific that
qualify towards a Captain's license.

So you only go out for 1.2 hours at a time on average?

Why bother to go at all? :)

He is only in the boat for a little over 1.2 hours of the trip.

No, I'm only under way 1.2 hours a day, on average. I'm anchored and
diving maybe 4-5
hours each day I'm out.


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:59:29 -0700, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

Chuck is absolutely right.

Chuck has a point, but it's not a good one.

I use my Boston Whaler on the Pacific Ocean about 70 days a year. I'm
coming up on having had it for 8 years. That's 560 days. The engine
has 725 hours. I have maybe six days on the Pacific that
qualify towards a Captain's license.

So you only go out for 1.2 hours at a time on average?

Why bother to go at all? :)

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:52:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:59:29 -0700, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

Chuck is absolutely right.

Chuck has a point, but it's not a good one.

I use my Boston Whaler on the Pacific Ocean about 70 days a year. I'm
coming up on having had it for 8 years. That's 560 days. The engine
has 725 hours. I have maybe six days on the Pacific that
qualify towards a Captain's license.

So you only go out for 1.2 hours at a time on average?

Why bother to go at all? :)

He is only in the boat for a little over 1.2 hours of the trip.

Er...huh?

He is a diver.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:53:56 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:52:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:59:29 -0700, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

Chuck is absolutely right.

Chuck has a point, but it's not a good one.

I use my Boston Whaler on the Pacific Ocean about 70 days a year. I'm
coming up on having had it for 8 years. That's 560 days. The engine
has 725 hours. I have maybe six days on the Pacific that
qualify towards a Captain's license.

So you only go out for 1.2 hours at a time on average?

Why bother to go at all? :)

He is only in the boat for a little over 1.2 hours of the trip.

Er...huh?

He is a diver.

Yeah - he mentioned that in another post.

I wish I could still dive - that's probably the one thing I can't do
that I really wish I could do again.

My wetsuit shrank. And here, you require a very warm wetsuit.

Not commericial, just for fun and taking pictures. I've sold a few pictures
here and there for publication, but I don't do any active marketing.
Maybe if I retire.


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:13:25 -0700, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

No, I'm only under way 1.2 hours a day, on average. I'm anchored and
diving maybe 4-5 hours each day I'm out.

Ah - well, that makes perfect sense then. Can't very well be
operating your boat while underwater unless you have a really cool
remote control deal.

So I take your point as a good one.

However, most folk don't operate that way. It might be that one would
go for 40 minutes to a fishing ground and 40 minutes back the rest of
the time fishing, lounging or whatever, but you are still "operating"
in the sense that you are alert for potential problems and can act if
problems do arise. And technically, if you are drift fishing, you are
underway - sort of.

And consider this - if a tanker is anchored, is the watch officer
disqualified from counting his watch hours as operational time? :)

To my way of thinking though, I wouldn't denigrate your experience as
being a disqualified for an OUPV license. You would certainly have
the experience in terms of operating hours - it's just spaced out
weird.

By the way, is the diving commercial of some sort?

Have you talked to the docs at Diver's Alert Network? Some asthmatics
can dive, but the run of the mill doc will give an instant NO if asked.

DAN is at http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/ They have an 800 number
for questions like yours.



"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:07:48 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:53:56 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:52:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news:55qvi15ud20ubh8j237c9p8hu4mo7nvkrr@4ax. com...
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:59:29 -0700, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

Chuck is absolutely right.

Chuck has a point, but it's not a good one.

I use my Boston Whaler on the Pacific Ocean about 70 days a year.
I'm
coming up on having had it for 8 years. That's 560 days. The
engine
has 725 hours. I have maybe six days on the Pacific that
qualify towards a Captain's license.

So you only go out for 1.2 hours at a time on average?

Why bother to go at all? :)

He is only in the boat for a little over 1.2 hours of the trip.

Er...huh?

He is a diver.

Yeah - he mentioned that in another post.

I wish I could still dive - that's probably the one thing I can't do
that I really wish I could do again.

My wetsuit shrank. And here, you require a very warm wetsuit.

I still have my drysuit and full gear including full face mask, but I
have drug enduced asthma - no can do anymore.

My technician has started taking one of those schools. I KNOW he does
not have much time at all being in control of a vessel but I was too
polite to ask how he would get around this requirment. He does live
aboard his sailboat, at the dock and it has not left the dock in 2
years. I imagine he will just use his liveaboard time. I cant figure
out why he wants the license. He asked why I didnt take the course and
I just wasnt interested as I dont intend to do anything commercial with
boats.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:22:56 -0700, "Chuck Tribolet"
wrote:

Have you talked to the docs at Diver's Alert Network? Some asthmatics
can dive, but the run of the mill doc will give an instant NO if asked.

DAN is at http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/ They have an 800 number
for questions like yours.

Nope - already checked it out. Besides, I have some experience in the
area and pretty much knew it wasn't all that good an idea.

It's a direct result of some meds that I take for my RA and OA - can't
be helped.

I flunked the asthma test miserably.

What are you taking for OA? I am on Mobic, 15mg a day. It is a wonder drug
but it can have problems like Vioxx and Celebrex.