The re-construction?
 

Since I'm removed from the 'blame game', I thought I'd move on to the
next step. What to do when the water receeds. If I was an American
taxpayer, I'd be concerned about just returning things as they were.
Ideally, housing would not be re-built below sea level for obvious
reasons...but what can be done?
-simply reinforcing and adding height to current levees...?
-maybe a backup system of aquaducts..that would be mostly dry but could
handle any overflow if original levee breaks again?
-house 'workers' distance away from workplace (high ground) but provide
highspeed rail public transportation?
-simply re-build houses, but on concrete stilts 10 feet above ground?

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:03:28 +0000, Don White wrote:

Since I'm removed from the 'blame game', I thought I'd move on to the next
step. What to do when the water receeds. If I was an American taxpayer,
I'd be concerned about just returning things as they were. Ideally,
housing would not be re-built below sea level for obvious reasons...but
what can be done?
-simply reinforcing and adding height to current levees...? -maybe a
backup system of aquaducts..that would be mostly dry but could
handle any overflow if original levee breaks again?
-house 'workers' distance away from workplace (high ground) but provide
highspeed rail public transportation?
-simply re-build houses, but on concrete stilts 10 feet above ground?

If it isn't waived, FEMA has a 50% rule. If a house is damaged more than
50% of it's fair marked value, it has to be rebuilt according to modern
standards. These include elevating the structure above expected flood
levels.

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=15423


You really have to wonder what is going to happen to New Orleans. You
have to expect that any house that has been under water for weeks will
have to be bulldozed. It is going to be an enormous task, and New Orleans
will never be the same. I would expect a considerable portion of the
displaced not to return. Add to the threat of hurricanes, this:

http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/oldriver.htm

Or if Tulane ever gets back online:

http://www.tulane.edu/~bfleury/envir...oodControl.htm

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:03:28 GMT, Don White wrote:

Since I'm removed from the 'blame game', I thought I'd move on to the
next step. What to do when the water receeds. If I was an American
taxpayer, I'd be concerned about just returning things as they were.
Ideally, housing would not be re-built below sea level for obvious
reasons...but what can be done?
-simply reinforcing and adding height to current levees...?
-maybe a backup system of aquaducts..that would be mostly dry but could
handle any overflow if original levee breaks again?
-house 'workers' distance away from workplace (high ground) but provide
highspeed rail public transportation?
-simply re-build houses, but on concrete stilts 10 feet above ground?

Call the Dutch. They know how to build dikes that work.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Don White wrote:
Since I'm removed from the 'blame game', I thought I'd move on to the
next step. What to do when the water receeds. If I was an American
taxpayer, I'd be concerned about just returning things as they were.
Ideally, housing would not be re-built below sea level for obvious
reasons...but what can be done?
-simply reinforcing and adding height to current levees...?
-maybe a backup system of aquaducts..that would be mostly dry but could
handle any overflow if original levee breaks again?
-house 'workers' distance away from workplace (high ground) but provide
highspeed rail public transportation?
-simply re-build houses, but on concrete stilts 10 feet above ground?

New Orleans as at the receiving end of a ruined eco-system.
Too many dikes and not enough drainage upstream.
100 years ago, there would have been some flooding associated with an
event like Katrina, but there would have been a higher number of
nuisance floods rather than this catastrophe we see now. Shame that
people who live upstream and who have channeled their own share of the
problem down to the folks below would ever say, "Why did those folks
down there build like that? They ought not be allowed!"

PocoLoco wrote:
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:03:28 GMT, Don White wrote:


Since I'm removed from the 'blame game', I thought I'd move on to the
next step. What to do when the water receeds. If I was an American
taxpayer, I'd be concerned about just returning things as they were.
Ideally, housing would not be re-built below sea level for obvious
reasons...but what can be done?
-simply reinforcing and adding height to current levees...?
-maybe a backup system of aquaducts..that would be mostly dry but could
handle any overflow if original levee breaks again?
-house 'workers' distance away from workplace (high ground) but provide
highspeed rail public transportation?
-simply re-build houses, but on concrete stilts 10 feet above ground?


Call the Dutch. They know how to build dikes that work.

The forefathers of your Cajuns built dikes up here that have lasted 250
years. On the other hand, we don't get many hurricanes...they are
usually downgraded to tropical storms this far north.
http://www.valleyweb.com/acadians/
http://www.ns.ec.gc.ca/wildlife/salt...cadians_e.html

Last I read was they are planning on rebuilding New Orleans where it is. I
think this is a grave mistake as it is below sea level and could be hit
again. Just my opinion lol
Ed
"Don White" wrote in message
...
Since I'm removed from the 'blame game', I thought I'd move on to the next
step. What to do when the water receeds. If I was an American taxpayer,
I'd be concerned about just returning things as they were.
Ideally, housing would not be re-built below sea level for obvious
reasons...but what can be done?
-simply reinforcing and adding height to current levees...?
-maybe a backup system of aquaducts..that would be mostly dry but could
handle any overflow if original levee breaks again?
-house 'workers' distance away from workplace (high ground) but provide
highspeed rail public transportation?
-simply re-build houses, but on concrete stilts 10 feet above ground?

Thunder,

My son goes to Columbia in New York City, I talked to him last night, and he
told me Columbia accepted a number of students from Tulane. It looks like
Tulane is working with all the students and colleges across the country to
try to find a place for them to attend school for the 2005-2006 school year.
It is very unusual for any school to be accepting a student after the school
year has started, especially the smaller schools, like Columbia. Since most
schools have maxed out their capacity by spring, they are scrambling to try
to find Dorms and rooms for the Tulane Refugees.

Besides Tulane there are 8 other colleges in NO. There are over 55,000 who
are looking for a place to attend college.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:03:28 +0000, Don White wrote:

Since I'm removed from the 'blame game', I thought I'd move on to the
next
step. What to do when the water receeds. If I was an American taxpayer,
I'd be concerned about just returning things as they were. Ideally,
housing would not be re-built below sea level for obvious reasons...but
what can be done?
-simply reinforcing and adding height to current levees...? -maybe a
backup system of aquaducts..that would be mostly dry but could
handle any overflow if original levee breaks again?
-house 'workers' distance away from workplace (high ground) but provide
highspeed rail public transportation?
-simply re-build houses, but on concrete stilts 10 feet above ground?

If it isn't waived, FEMA has a 50% rule. If a house is damaged more than
50% of it's fair marked value, it has to be rebuilt according to modern
standards. These include elevating the structure above expected flood
levels.

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=15423


You really have to wonder what is going to happen to New Orleans. You
have to expect that any house that has been under water for weeks will
have to be bulldozed. It is going to be an enormous task, and New Orleans
will never be the same. I would expect a considerable portion of the
displaced not to return. Add to the threat of hurricanes, this:

http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/oldriver.htm

Or if Tulane ever gets back online:

http://www.tulane.edu/~bfleury/envir...oodControl.htm

JohnH,
The Dutch don't have to contend with Hurricanes and 15 ft. storm surges.


"PocoLoco" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:03:28 GMT, Don White
wrote:

Since I'm removed from the 'blame game', I thought I'd move on to the
next step. What to do when the water receeds. If I was an American
taxpayer, I'd be concerned about just returning things as they were.
Ideally, housing would not be re-built below sea level for obvious
reasons...but what can be done?
-simply reinforcing and adding height to current levees...?
-maybe a backup system of aquaducts..that would be mostly dry but could
handle any overflow if original levee breaks again?
-house 'workers' distance away from workplace (high ground) but provide
highspeed rail public transportation?
-simply re-build houses, but on concrete stilts 10 feet above ground?

Call the Dutch. They know how to build dikes that work.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Do not subsidize flood insurance and the problem will go away. Without
flood insurance and FEMA help, very few would rebuild there.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:20:36 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:


Call the Dutch. They know how to build dikes that work.

Not always.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...-Flood-of-1953

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 11:41:49 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:


There's a lot at stake here, and I wouldn't so easily dismiss a rebuilding
of the area. It's it our national interest to keep that area alive
economically.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing rebuilding New Orleans by any
stretch. I'm just suggesting that it far from an easy project. The way I
see it, it almost has to be rebuilt. How do you abandon the lives and
homes of a million people? New Orleans is a major city, but no matter
what, it will never be anywhere close to the same as it was last month.




We've spent $300 billion so far on the rat hole of Iraq. We should be
willing to spend at least half that amount fixing up a major, important
part of the United States for us and for the people who live there.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:25:03 -0400, thunder wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:20:36 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:


Call the Dutch. They know how to build dikes that work.

Not always.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...-Flood-of-1953

My friends tell me they've gotten more proficient in the last 50 years! Who said
they didn't have high tidal surges?

I think the new guy in charge is named Hans Brinker, but I'm not sure.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

JohnH,

The storm surge from Hurricane Katrina is estimated at 27 ft. 3 times the
storm surge that caused the flooding in the Netherlands.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...n/12580121.htm



"PocoLoco" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:25:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:20:36 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:


Call the Dutch. They know how to build dikes that work.

Not always.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...-Flood-of-1953

My friends tell me they've gotten more proficient in the last 50 years!
Who said
they didn't have high tidal surges?

I think the new guy in charge is named Hans Brinker, but I'm not sure.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

The storm surge is something else. I went through Betsy in 1965 while at
Keesler AFB for training. We were about 75 miles from the eye and we had 95
gusting to 105 mph winds. At least that is what we were told. You can not
tell there is a gust of an extra 10 mph when the wind is blowing 95 for a
4-5 hour stretch. We had about a 6-9'' surge in the back bay of Biloxi.
There was a 5' wide coil of tules (cat tails) circling the bay. We were
cleaning up housing by hand, but they said stay away from the tules. Loaded
with water moccasins. Being from the San Francisco area, and used to big
waves in the Pacific, and then go to the gulf that was normally flat calm,
and see the huge breakers coming ashore as well as huge tide swing, was an
eye opener. That was a Cat 3 storm and I saw in NO iself 12" I-beam girders
from bill boards twisted like corkscrews and then bend 90 degrees. Now
change the power 10-20 times.

"Starbucks" wrote in message
...
JohnH,

The storm surge from Hurricane Katrina is estimated at 27 ft. 3 times the
storm surge that caused the flooding in the Netherlands.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...n/12580121.htm



"PocoLoco" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:25:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:20:36 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:


Call the Dutch. They know how to build dikes that work.

Not always.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...-Flood-of-1953

My friends tell me they've gotten more proficient in the last 50 years!
Who said
they didn't have high tidal surges?

I think the new guy in charge is named Hans Brinker, but I'm not sure.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:03:28 GMT, Don White
wrote:

Since I'm removed from the 'blame game', I thought I'd move on to the
next step. What to do when the water receeds. If I was an American
taxpayer, I'd be concerned about just returning things as they were.
Ideally, housing would not be re-built below sea level for obvious
reasons...but what can be done?
-simply reinforcing and adding height to current levees...?
-maybe a backup system of aquaducts..that would be mostly dry but could
handle any overflow if original levee breaks again?
-house 'workers' distance away from workplace (high ground) but provide
highspeed rail public transportation?
-simply re-build houses, but on concrete stilts 10 feet above ground?

That's an interesting question - I'm not sure it will ever return to
being an "urban" center like it was and in my opinion, should never
return to being an "urban" center.

On the other hand, how do you service the tourist industry with an
available labor source and how do you take a major port and turn it
into a ghost town.

When I lived in New Orleans back in the '70s, it was entirely
different than it was three weeks ago. There was one "skyscraper" in
town and that was One Shell Square. The oil industry was HQ'd out of
Houston and Dallas. Most of the industry centered around the shipping
industry and was located along the waterfront. The JAX brewery had
been abandoned and the only thing left was the French Quarter and Cafe
Dumond as attractants for tourism. Even Mardi Gras was almost
entirely a local event.

That's what I think New Orleans should return to.

The real question is if anybody has the guts to do that.\

They need building codes that will not allow habital space below the flood
plan. The other half of the problem is that a major part of the city is
constantly sinking.