Gas prices now approx. $7.70 per US gallon
 

Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

"Stig Arne Bye" wrote in message
...
Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

I would have thought that the price would drop for world oil but gas prices
here would increase.

Since we can't import oil to the port in Louisiana that should mean lower
demand for oil on the world market since we can't import oil for our demand.

"Stig Arne Bye" wrote in message
...
Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....



Stig Arne Bye

You can place the blame squarely on those in the US who fight tooth and nail
to prevent *any* new refineries to be built.
There is absolutely no shortage of oil, just the capacity for refining
crude.

Jeff Rigby wrote:

I would have thought that the price would drop for world oil but gas prices
here would increase.

Since we can't import oil to the port in Louisiana that should mean lower
demand for oil on the world market since we can't import oil for our demand.


I don't think it really matters. The big oil companies will use any
flimsy excuse to gouge us now. Here gas went up to $1.29 per
liter...and this is for gas still in the station underground tanks...
This would be for oil bought & refined months ago.
The gov't won't do anything.

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in
:

I would have thought that the price would drop for world oil but gas
prices here would increase.

Uh... lower supply means higher prices.

Since we can't import oil to the port in Louisiana that should mean
lower demand for oil on the world market since we can't import oil for
our demand.

This statement makes no sense at all.

Given that the demand for oil determines it's price. IF you take our
imports out of the equation there should be less demand on world oil and
it's price should drop.

Most of the oil for the US is imported thru New Orleans. If we can't import
it, we won't buy it and there should be less demand on world oil. IF this
is not the case we have been lied to and we are a net exporter of oil.

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote in
:


Why do you think the oil market is a rational market?

The "oil market" is not a "market" at all. Insane extremists have
prevented the construction of a single refinery over the past 20 years;
they have prevented the exploration of alternative sources of oil offshore
and in the remote arctic tundra; they have demanded a patchwork of FORTY
DIFFERENT blends of vehicle fuel, straining those limited refining
capabilities to the breaking point.

The present energy crisis is 100% the work of insane extremists. And YOU
are one of them.

Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries? I need
details.

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote in
:


Why do you think the oil market is a rational market?

The "oil market" is not a "market" at all. Insane extremists have
prevented the construction of a single refinery over the past 20
years; they have prevented the exploration of alternative sources of
oil offshore and in the remote arctic tundra; they have demanded a
patchwork of FORTY DIFFERENT blends of vehicle fuel, straining those
limited refining capabilities to the breaking point.

The present energy crisis is 100% the work of insane extremists. And
YOU are one of them.

Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries? I
need details.

Harry, you need to answer to Doug on this one.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote in
:


Why do you think the oil market is a rational market?

The "oil market" is not a "market" at all. Insane extremists have
prevented the construction of a single refinery over the past 20 years;
they have prevented the exploration of alternative sources of oil
offshore
and in the remote arctic tundra; they have demanded a patchwork of FORTY
DIFFERENT blends of vehicle fuel, straining those limited refining
capabilities to the breaking point.

The present energy crisis is 100% the work of insane extremists. And YOU
are one of them.

Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries? I need
details.


I wonder if I'm one of the insane extremists. You see, I live in
California. I've surfed and sailed and played on the coast, the beaches,
the waters of California for more than 30 years now. When the republican
presidents propose drilling off the California coast, I always say no thank
you. I like my California coastal areas just the way they are and I
believe, right or wrong, that drilling off the coast will ruin the beauty of
the coast for me (actually, all of us, but I don't want to speak for
others). So, maybe I'm one of the extremists. Sorry, insane extremists.
Or maybe the reference is to someone else. I'm never quite sure where I fit
because on some environmental issues I'm pro, others con, and I've voted for
both republican and democratic presidential candidates. I even voted for an
independent once! Shhh.

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in
:

I would have thought that the price would drop for world oil but gas
prices here would increase.

Uh... lower supply means higher prices.

Since we can't import oil to the port in Louisiana that should mean
lower demand for oil on the world market since we can't import oil
for our demand.

This statement makes no sense at all.

Given that the demand for oil determines it's price. IF you take our
imports out of the equation there should be less demand on world oil
and it's price should drop.

Most of the oil for the US is imported thru New Orleans.

A great argument for eliminating the "single point of failure" by building
more refineries and pursuing more avenues of exploration.

If we can't
import it, we won't buy it and there should be less demand on world
oil.

Demand is determined at the end user level. For oil the end user is
not the refinery, but the commuter filling his car, the lawn service owner
filling his commercial mowers, etc. The refinery is just one link in the
chain from the raw material (crude oil coming out of the ground/ocean) to
the end user. Taking refineries offline does not decrease demand. To the
contrary, any break in the chain of delivery puts additional stresses on a
market. Those stresses are both real (refinery capacity has been
decreased) and perceived (consumers fear a coming shortage and make a run
on gas).

As another illustration, say longshoremen who unload widgets at a dock go
on strike. Demand at the end user level hasn't changed. Supply (the
number of widgets being manufactured at the offshore factory) hasn't
changed. But the price of widgets will go up because the delivery chain
has been broken.

This is why prices are behaving as they are, and why prices ALWAYS rise in
any "crisis" situation. People who complain about $500 generators selling
for $3,000 or $5 plywood boards selling for $25 don't understand basic
economics. There aren't enough generators or plywood boards for everyone,
so prices self-regulate.

Isn't the poster you are responding to saying that we can't import oil
through New Orleans. It seems your response is addressing refineries when
he is addressing an inability to import. I think an interesting question
would be how much refined oil do we export from New Orleans in which case
the shut down would effect world supply.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
OlBlueEyes wrote:

This is why prices are behaving as they are, and why prices ALWAYS rise
in any "crisis" situation. People who complain about $500 generators
selling for $3,000 or $5 plywood boards selling for $25 don't understand
basic economics. There aren't enough generators or plywood boards for
everyone, so prices self-regulate.

Sometimes, but more likely, the sellers are taking advantage and gouging.

The stations in my immediate area raised their prices nearly $1.00
overnight. There's no shortage, there's no lines, and it's unlikely all
the stations just received thousands of gallons of higher priced gas.

It's gouging.

"Bryan" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote in
:


Why do you think the oil market is a rational market?

The "oil market" is not a "market" at all. Insane extremists have
prevented the construction of a single refinery over the past 20 years;
they have prevented the exploration of alternative sources of oil
offshore
and in the remote arctic tundra; they have demanded a patchwork of FORTY
DIFFERENT blends of vehicle fuel, straining those limited refining
capabilities to the breaking point.

The present energy crisis is 100% the work of insane extremists. And
YOU
are one of them.

Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries? I
need details.


I wonder if I'm one of the insane extremists. You see, I live in
California. I've surfed and sailed and played on the coast, the beaches,
the waters of California for more than 30 years now. When the republican
presidents propose drilling off the California coast, I always say no
thank you. I like my California coastal areas just the way they are and I
believe, right or wrong, that drilling off the coast will ruin the beauty
of the coast for me (actually, all of us, but I don't want to speak for
others). So, maybe I'm one of the extremists. Sorry, insane extremists.
Or maybe the reference is to someone else. I'm never quite sure where I
fit because on some environmental issues I'm pro, others con, and I've
voted for both republican and democratic presidential candidates. I even
voted for an independent once! Shhh.


OK, but we're talking about refineries. I'm wondering if blueeyes can
explain to me why some people don't want any more refineries built. I
honestly don't know.

OBE,
Harry is frustrated because he is an old fart who has nothing to do, but
attack Republicans and pretend to own a lobster boat.

You hit the name on the head, Harry's life is a miserable existence.



"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote in
:

OlBlueEyes wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in
:

OlBlueEyes wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in
:


Why do you think the oil market is a rational market?
The "oil market" is not a "market" at all. Insane extremists have
prevented the construction of a single refinery over the past 20
years; they have prevented the exploration of alternative sources of
oil offshore and in the remote arctic tundra; they have demanded a
patchwork of FORTY DIFFERENT blends of vehicle fuel, straining those
limited refining capabilities to the breaking point.
Wow...you've really bought into the Bush b.s.

You have no retort, so you blame someone you've never met for all the
misery in your life.

You're claiming someone you've never met has "misery" in his life?

Hey everyone,

Can anyone cite a single post by Harry that was positive or uplifting?




Didn't think so.

Q.E.D.

This shows Harry's lack of understanding concerning basic supply and
demand.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
OlBlueEyes wrote:

This is why prices are behaving as they are, and why prices ALWAYS rise
in any "crisis" situation. People who complain about $500 generators
selling for $3,000 or $5 plywood boards selling for $25 don't understand
basic economics. There aren't enough generators or plywood boards for
everyone, so prices self-regulate.

Sometimes, but more likely, the sellers are taking advantage and gouging.

The stations in my immediate area raised their prices nearly $1.00
overnight. There's no shortage, there's no lines, and it's unlikely all
the stations just received thousands of gallons of higher priced gas.

It's gouging.

Do you listen much to grownup news? When I hear mention of oil price
increases, it's almost always like this: "Oil rose $X per barrel today in
Singapore trading, based on fears caused by London bombings / latest
increase in violence in Baghdad / tropical storm somewhere. This hurricane
is the first REAL reason there's been in quite some time.


"Starbucks" wrote in message
...
This shows Harry's lack of understanding concerning basic supply and
demand.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
OlBlueEyes wrote:

This is why prices are behaving as they are, and why prices ALWAYS rise
in any "crisis" situation. People who complain about $500 generators
selling for $3,000 or $5 plywood boards selling for $25 don't understand
basic economics. There aren't enough generators or plywood boards for
everyone, so prices self-regulate.

Sometimes, but more likely, the sellers are taking advantage and gouging.

The stations in my immediate area raised their prices nearly $1.00
overnight. There's no shortage, there's no lines, and it's unlikely all
the stations just received thousands of gallons of higher priced gas.

It's gouging.

Stig Arne Bye wrote:

Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....


UPDATE:

Just saw the local TV news a few minutes ago:

Gas prices in Norway just made a second increase today, and has now
reached a new high record of approx. NOK 13.20 per litre, that is equal
to approx. $8.10 per US gallon.....

Now, where is this going to end.....???



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:06:44 +0200, Stig Arne Bye
wrote:

Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....



gas prices here in PA

8/31
4:30 PM 2.49
5:30 PM 2.59

9/1

8 AM 2.79
1 PM 2.99

20% increase in 16 hours.

and i drive 120 miles each day to school...jesus...

---------------------------
to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com"
and enter 'wf3h' in the field

The oil market is the same as any other commodity, the market place is as
rational as those involved in the market, so you can have some very
irrational short term fluctuations. The free market place is not perfect,
it is just the best system known to man.



"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jeff Rigby wrote:
"Stig Arne Bye" wrote in message
...
Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

I would have thought that the price would drop for world oil but gas
prices here would increase.

Since we can't import oil to the port in Louisiana that should mean lower
demand for oil on the world market since we can't import oil for our
demand.


Why do you think the oil market is a rational market?

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Bryan" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote in
:


Why do you think the oil market is a rational market?

The "oil market" is not a "market" at all. Insane extremists have
prevented the construction of a single refinery over the past 20
years; they have prevented the exploration of alternative sources
of oil offshore
and in the remote arctic tundra; they have demanded a patchwork of
FORTY DIFFERENT blends of vehicle fuel, straining those limited
refining capabilities to the breaking point.

The present energy crisis is 100% the work of insane extremists.
And YOU
are one of them.

Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries?
I need details.


I wonder if I'm one of the insane extremists. You see, I live in
California. I've surfed and sailed and played on the coast, the
beaches, the waters of California for more than 30 years now. When
the republican presidents propose drilling off the California coast,
I always say no thank you. I like my California coastal areas just
the way they are and I believe, right or wrong, that drilling off the
coast will ruin the beauty of the coast for me (actually, all of us,
but I don't want to speak for others). So, maybe I'm one of the
extremists. Sorry, insane extremists. Or maybe the reference is to
someone else. I'm never quite sure where I fit because on some
environmental issues I'm pro, others con, and I've voted for both
republican and democratic presidential candidates. I even voted for
an independent once! Shhh.


OK, but we're talking about refineries. I'm wondering if blueeyes can
explain to me why some people don't want any more refineries built. I
honestly don't know.

Ask the insane extremists. Harry....?

No...I'm asking you. You mentioned the subject, which means you must be
thoroughly informed, right? I don't trust Harry's explanation. I want yours.
Make like a journalist. Summarize it factually in one paragraph. No links.

What do you call "short term" for the oil markets?

"Starbucks" wrote in message
...
The oil market is the same as any other commodity, the market place is as
rational as those involved in the market, so you can have some very
irrational short term fluctuations. The free market place is not perfect,
it is just the best system known to man.



"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Jeff Rigby wrote:
"Stig Arne Bye" wrote in message
...
Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

I would have thought that the price would drop for world oil but gas
prices here would increase.

Since we can't import oil to the port in Louisiana that should mean
lower demand for oil on the world market since we can't import oil for
our demand.


Why do you think the oil market is a rational market?

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bryan" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote in
:


Why do you think the oil market is a rational market?

The "oil market" is not a "market" at all. Insane extremists have
prevented the construction of a single refinery over the past 20 years;
they have prevented the exploration of alternative sources of oil
offshore
and in the remote arctic tundra; they have demanded a patchwork of
FORTY
DIFFERENT blends of vehicle fuel, straining those limited refining
capabilities to the breaking point.

The present energy crisis is 100% the work of insane extremists. And
YOU
are one of them.

Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries? I
need details.


I wonder if I'm one of the insane extremists. You see, I live in
California. I've surfed and sailed and played on the coast, the beaches,
the waters of California for more than 30 years now. When the republican
presidents propose drilling off the California coast, I always say no
thank you. I like my California coastal areas just the way they are and
I believe, right or wrong, that drilling off the coast will ruin the
beauty of the coast for me (actually, all of us, but I don't want to
speak for others). So, maybe I'm one of the extremists. Sorry, insane
extremists. Or maybe the reference is to someone else. I'm never quite
sure where I fit because on some environmental issues I'm pro, others
con, and I've voted for both republican and democratic presidential
candidates. I even voted for an independent once! Shhh.


OK, but we're talking about refineries. I'm wondering if blueeyes can
explain to me why some people don't want any more refineries built. I
honestly don't know.


That's a great question. I don't know anyone, personally, that is against
building a refinery. We're against drilling off the California coast, but
there's no real reason anyone could object to a refinery. I'm guilty of not
wanting one in my backyard, and that's probably a pretty general sentiment,
but another refinery where they already exist or won't impact existing
homes/home prices isn't on the general hit list around these parts. I
didnt' realize anyone was stopping refineries from being built; I just
thought they weren't built due to lack of foresight.

"Bryan" wrote in message
.. .

but there's no real reason anyone could object to a refinery.

blueeyes is going to tell us why. I guess he's busy at the moment.

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:07:11 +0000, Doug Kanter wrote:


Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries? I need
details.

LOL, Rush must be talking up those evil environmentalists, again. It
isn't environmentalists that are the problem, it's profitability. Oil
companies haven't been building refineries, they have been closing them,
24 between 1995 and 2001.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ining_text.htm

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:...2+oil+& hl=en

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

OK, but we're talking about refineries. I'm wondering if blueeyes
can explain to me why some people don't want any more refineries
built. I honestly don't know.

Ask the insane extremists. Harry....?

No...I'm asking you. You mentioned the subject, which means you must
be thoroughly informed, right? I don't trust Harry's explanation. I
want yours. Make like a journalist. Summarize it factually in one
paragraph. No links.

You're not ASKING for facts, you're asking "why". "Why" is an opinion.
Since I am not an insane extremist, I don't know how they arrive at their
opinions. And I certainly wouldn't presume to speak for them either.

This is why you need to ask one of them.

I'm asking for the facts. What are the facts, as you know them?

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Bryan" wrote in
:

I'm guilty of not
wanting one in my backyard, and that's probably a pretty general
sentiment, but another refinery where they already exist or won't
impact existing homes/home prices isn't on the general hit list around
these parts.

Considering the employment a refinery would bring, home prices would
increase in their proximity.

I didnt' realize anyone was stopping refineries from
being built; I just thought they weren't built due to lack of
foresight.

What, you didn't think the "greedy oil companies" don't want to increase
capacity?

Doesn't that argue against your extremist theory and point the finger at oil
company profits instead? This fits more with my sense of how my neighbors
feel about refineries.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:07:11 +0000, Doug Kanter wrote:


Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries? I
need
details.

LOL, Rush must be talking up those evil environmentalists, again. It
isn't environmentalists that are the problem, it's profitability. Oil
companies haven't been building refineries, they have been closing them,
24 between 1995 and 2001.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ining_text.htm

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:...2+oil+& hl=en



OK...time out. That second source says the oil companies are looking for
government incentives to build more refineries which, according to their
internal documents, they do not need.

Wow. I'm really confused now. They'll get paid to open new facilities, and
then probably close them again.

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:06:44 +0200, Stig Arne Bye wrote:

Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

Just blame it on Bush, that's what somewhat less than half (thank God) of
Americans are doing!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:54:21 +0200, Stig Arne Bye wrote:

Stig Arne Bye wrote:

Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....


UPDATE:

Just saw the local TV news a few minutes ago:

Gas prices in Norway just made a second increase today, and has now
reached a new high record of approx. NOK 13.20 per litre, that is equal
to approx. $8.10 per US gallon.....

Now, where is this going to end.....???



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

Check with some of the folks right here. They firmly believe that if John Kerry
were elected, we would not have any price increases, nor hurricane damage for
that matter.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Bob wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:06:44 +0200, Stig Arne Bye
wrote:


20% increase in 16 hours.

and i drive 120 miles each day to school...jesus...


I hear ya.. I drive 170 miles per day now - round trip - to work. And
this morning I could hardly find a station that was open that had gas
for sale. It's not like I can stock up on gas - I'd have to find a
huge tanker somewhere since I go through a tank of gas every two days :/

"PocoLoco" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:54:21 +0200, Stig Arne Bye
wrote:

Stig Arne Bye wrote:

Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....


UPDATE:

Just saw the local TV news a few minutes ago:

Gas prices in Norway just made a second increase today, and has now
reached a new high record of approx. NOK 13.20 per litre, that is equal
to approx. $8.10 per US gallon.....

Now, where is this going to end.....???



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

Check with some of the folks right here. They firmly believe that if John
Kerry
were elected, we would not have any price increases, nor hurricane damage
for
that matter.
--
Yep, ol' John Kerry wanted $3 gas, and now you got it. Liberals, I hope you
are happy!

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:49:13 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in
:

I would have thought that the price would drop for world oil but gas
prices here would increase.

Uh... lower supply means higher prices.

Since we can't import oil to the port in Louisiana that should mean
lower demand for oil on the world market since we can't import oil
for our demand.

This statement makes no sense at all.

Given that the demand for oil determines it's price. IF you take our
imports out of the equation there should be less demand on world oil
and it's price should drop.

Most of the oil for the US is imported thru New Orleans.

A great argument for eliminating the "single point of failure" by building
more refineries and pursuing more avenues of exploration.

If we can't
import it, we won't buy it and there should be less demand on world
oil.

Demand is determined at the end user level. For oil the end user is
not the refinery, but the commuter filling his car, the lawn service owner
filling his commercial mowers, etc. The refinery is just one link in the
chain from the raw material (crude oil coming out of the ground/ocean) to
the end user. Taking refineries offline does not decrease demand. To the
contrary, any break in the chain of delivery puts additional stresses on a
market. Those stresses are both real (refinery capacity has been
decreased) and perceived (consumers fear a coming shortage and make a run
on gas).

As another illustration, say longshoremen who unload widgets at a dock go
on strike. Demand at the end user level hasn't changed. Supply (the
number of widgets being manufactured at the offshore factory) hasn't
changed. But the price of widgets will go up because the delivery chain
has been broken.

This is why prices are behaving as they are, and why prices ALWAYS rise in
any "crisis" situation. People who complain about $500 generators selling
for $3,000 or $5 plywood boards selling for $25 don't understand basic
economics. There aren't enough generators or plywood boards for everyone,
so prices self-regulate.

Isn't the poster you are responding to saying that we can't import oil
through New Orleans. It seems your response is addressing refineries when
he is addressing an inability to import. I think an interesting question
would be how much refined oil do we export from New Orleans in which case
the shut down would effect world supply.

It seems to me that we will be importing refined products at ports
other than New Orleans (and other devestated southern areas) in order
to make up for refinery production or southern pipeline supplies.
This will clearly impact the rest of the world. We have the ability to
get oil and oil products to the vast majority of the US by alternative
means, therefore our loss of oil production and our loss of refinery
production as well as our loss of southern pipeline transport capacity
has an effect on supplies throughout the world as supplies are shifted
to those willing to pay the most - as it should be.

Dave Hall

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:54:21 +0200, Stig Arne Bye
wrote:

Stig Arne Bye wrote:

Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....


UPDATE:

Just saw the local TV news a few minutes ago:

Gas prices in Norway just made a second increase today, and has now
reached a new high record of approx. NOK 13.20 per litre, that is equal
to approx. $8.10 per US gallon.....

Now, where is this going to end.....???



Stig Arne Bye

Are fuel related taxes there by any chance related to the underlying
fuel price (i.e. a sales type tax or a VAT type tax)? If so, then any
increase in the base price of fuel is magnified by the tax causing a
rapid increase. Is your gov't going to drop their tax rates or are
they simply going to use the extra tax revenue to buy votes like ours
would?

Dave Hall

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:17:33 GMT, OlBlueEyes wrote:

Harry Krause wrote in
:

OlBlueEyes wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in
:

OlBlueEyes wrote:
Harry Krause wrote in
:


Why do you think the oil market is a rational market?
The "oil market" is not a "market" at all. Insane extremists have
prevented the construction of a single refinery over the past 20
years; they have prevented the exploration of alternative sources of
oil offshore and in the remote arctic tundra; they have demanded a
patchwork of FORTY DIFFERENT blends of vehicle fuel, straining those
limited refining capabilities to the breaking point.
Wow...you've really bought into the Bush b.s.

You have no retort, so you blame someone you've never met for all the
misery in your life.

You're claiming someone you've never met has "misery" in his life?

Hey everyone,

Can anyone cite a single post by Harry that was positive or uplifting?




Didn't think so.

Q.E.D.

Yes!

A while back he told us he would be gone for a few days. There was widespread
rejoicing.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote in
:

OlBlueEyes wrote:

This is why prices are behaving as they are, and why prices ALWAYS
rise in any "crisis" situation. People who complain about $500
generators selling for $3,000 or $5 plywood boards selling for $25
don't understand basic economics. There aren't enough generators or
plywood boards for everyone, so prices self-regulate.

Sometimes, but more likely, the sellers are taking advantage and
gouging.

The stations in my immediate area raised their prices nearly $1.00
overnight. There's no shortage, there's no lines, and it's unlikely
all the stations just received thousands of gallons of higher priced
gas.

Actually it's LIKELY the stations WON'T be receiving ANY gas for DAYS.

It is likely the stations are making the same few cents a gallon that they
have always made.

Harry Krause wrote:
Doug Kanter wrote:

"thunder" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:07:11 +0000, Doug Kanter wrote:


Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries?
I need
details.

LOL, Rush must be talking up those evil environmentalists, again. It
isn't environmentalists that are the problem, it's profitability. Oil
companies haven't been building refineries, they have been closing them,
24 between 1995 and 2001.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ining_text.htm


http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:...2+oil+& hl=en




OK...time out. That second source says the oil companies are looking
for government incentives to build more refineries which, according to
their internal documents, they do not need.

Wow. I'm really confused now. They'll get paid to open new facilities,
and then probably close them again.



Why can't they pay for the refineries out of their record profits?

Perhaps it is time to nationalize the oil industry.


We did that to one oil company back in the 70's. We all paid an extra
10 cents a liter to buy out Fina and establish Petro Canada. Then a
conservative a**hole gov't under Brian Mulroney comes to power and
sells shared of the company back to investors. The whole idea was to
have one nationalized company to keep the others in line.
http://www.petro-canada.ca/eng/media/10303.htm

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Bryan" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Bryan" wrote in
:

I'm guilty of not
wanting one in my backyard, and that's probably a pretty general
sentiment, but another refinery where they already exist or won't
impact existing homes/home prices isn't on the general hit list
around these parts.

Considering the employment a refinery would bring, home prices would
increase in their proximity.

I didnt' realize anyone was stopping refineries from
being built; I just thought they weren't built due to lack of
foresight.

What, you didn't think the "greedy oil companies" don't want to
increase capacity?

Doesn't that argue against your extremist theory and point the finger
at oil company profits instead?

Uh, y'ever heard of "sarcasm"?

Yeah, but it didn't stand out in black and white. What's the emoticon for
sarcasm?

Harry Krause wrote:




You think suppliers raise the price to stations on fuel already in their
underground tanks?


That's what the service station people say here. They get a message out
of the blue from the oil companies to raise the price to a certain
amount that day.

Harry Krause wrote:
Don White wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:




You think suppliers raise the price to stations on fuel already in
their underground tanks?



That's what the service station people say here. They get a message
out of the blue from the oil companies to raise the price to a certain
amount that day.



Well, maybe at an oil company owned service station...
What about an independently owned station?

Less and less of them surviving. They have to appease the oil companies
to stay in business. Very little variation in price here. As soon as
one oil company raises prices...all follow in quick order.

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in
:

I would have thought that the price would drop for world oil but gas
prices here would increase.

Uh... lower supply means higher prices.

Since we can't import oil to the port in Louisiana that should mean
lower demand for oil on the world market since we can't import oil
for our demand.

This statement makes no sense at all.

Given that the demand for oil determines it's price. IF you take our
imports out of the equation there should be less demand on world oil
and it's price should drop.

Most of the oil for the US is imported thru New Orleans.

A great argument for eliminating the "single point of failure" by building
more refineries and pursuing more avenues of exploration.

If we can't
import it, we won't buy it and there should be less demand on world
oil.

Demand is determined at the end user level. For oil the end user is
not the refinery, but the commuter filling his car, the lawn service owner
filling his commercial mowers, etc. The refinery is just one link in the
chain from the raw material (crude oil coming out of the ground/ocean) to
the end user. Taking refineries offline does not decrease demand. To the
contrary, any break in the chain of delivery puts additional stresses on a
market. Those stresses are both real (refinery capacity has been
decreased) and perceived (consumers fear a coming shortage and make a run
on gas).

As another illustration, say longshoremen who unload widgets at a dock go
on strike. Demand at the end user level hasn't changed. Supply (the
number of widgets being manufactured at the offshore factory) hasn't
changed. But the price of widgets will go up because the delivery chain
has been broken.

This is why prices are behaving as they are, and why prices ALWAYS rise in
any "crisis" situation. People who complain about $500 generators selling
for $3,000 or $5 plywood boards selling for $25 don't understand basic
economics. There aren't enough generators or plywood boards for everyone,
so prices self-regulate.

Again, I would have thought that the price would drop for WORLD OIL but
gas
PRICES HERE WOULD INCRESE!!!!!!

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
P. Fritz wrote:
"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote in
:

OlBlueEyes wrote:
This is why prices are behaving as they are, and why prices ALWAYS
rise in any "crisis" situation. People who complain about $500
generators selling for $3,000 or $5 plywood boards selling for $25
don't understand basic economics. There aren't enough generators or
plywood boards for everyone, so prices self-regulate.
Sometimes, but more likely, the sellers are taking advantage and
gouging.

The stations in my immediate area raised their prices nearly $1.00
overnight. There's no shortage, there's no lines, and it's unlikely
all the stations just received thousands of gallons of higher priced
gas.
Actually it's LIKELY the stations WON'T be receiving ANY gas for DAYS.

It is likely the stations are making the same few cents a gallon that
they
have always made.





You think suppliers raise the price to stations on fuel already in their
underground tanks?

I don't know the economic facts, but I do have an opinion. It doesn't
matter that they charge us more for the gas in their tanks. Don't they also
charge us less for the fuel in their tanks when prices come down? I will
concede that the price fails to come back down significantly.

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:45:46 GMT, "Bryan" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
P. Fritz wrote:
"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote in
:

OlBlueEyes wrote:
This is why prices are behaving as they are, and why prices ALWAYS
rise in any "crisis" situation. People who complain about $500
generators selling for $3,000 or $5 plywood boards selling for $25
don't understand basic economics. There aren't enough generators or
plywood boards for everyone, so prices self-regulate.
Sometimes, but more likely, the sellers are taking advantage and
gouging.

The stations in my immediate area raised their prices nearly $1.00
overnight. There's no shortage, there's no lines, and it's unlikely
all the stations just received thousands of gallons of higher priced
gas.
Actually it's LIKELY the stations WON'T be receiving ANY gas for DAYS.

It is likely the stations are making the same few cents a gallon that
they
have always made.





You think suppliers raise the price to stations on fuel already in their
underground tanks?

I don't know the economic facts, but I do have an opinion. It doesn't
matter that they charge us more for the gas in their tanks. Don't they also
charge us less for the fuel in their tanks when prices come down? I will
concede that the price fails to come back down significantly.


If they charged only what they paid for the fuel in their tanks, they wouldn't
be able to afford the cost of the next tank refill. I just spoke to the owner of
the local Texaco (who, by the way, is selling gas at $2.96/gal. The cut-rate
Crown right next to him is charging $3.16/gal.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."