"Bryan" wrote in message
.. .

but there's no real reason anyone could object to a refinery.

blueeyes is going to tell us why. I guess he's busy at the moment.

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:07:11 +0000, Doug Kanter wrote:


Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries? I need
details.

LOL, Rush must be talking up those evil environmentalists, again. It
isn't environmentalists that are the problem, it's profitability. Oil
companies haven't been building refineries, they have been closing them,
24 between 1995 and 2001.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ining_text.htm

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:...2+oil+& hl=en

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

OK, but we're talking about refineries. I'm wondering if blueeyes
can explain to me why some people don't want any more refineries
built. I honestly don't know.

Ask the insane extremists. Harry....?

No...I'm asking you. You mentioned the subject, which means you must
be thoroughly informed, right? I don't trust Harry's explanation. I
want yours. Make like a journalist. Summarize it factually in one
paragraph. No links.

You're not ASKING for facts, you're asking "why". "Why" is an opinion.
Since I am not an insane extremist, I don't know how they arrive at their
opinions. And I certainly wouldn't presume to speak for them either.

This is why you need to ask one of them.

I'm asking for the facts. What are the facts, as you know them?

"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Bryan" wrote in
:

I'm guilty of not
wanting one in my backyard, and that's probably a pretty general
sentiment, but another refinery where they already exist or won't
impact existing homes/home prices isn't on the general hit list around
these parts.

Considering the employment a refinery would bring, home prices would
increase in their proximity.

I didnt' realize anyone was stopping refineries from
being built; I just thought they weren't built due to lack of
foresight.

What, you didn't think the "greedy oil companies" don't want to increase
capacity?

Doesn't that argue against your extremist theory and point the finger at oil
company profits instead? This fits more with my sense of how my neighbors
feel about refineries.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:07:11 +0000, Doug Kanter wrote:


Why have these extremists prevented the building of new refineries? I
need
details.

LOL, Rush must be talking up those evil environmentalists, again. It
isn't environmentalists that are the problem, it's profitability. Oil
companies haven't been building refineries, they have been closing them,
24 between 1995 and 2001.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ining_text.htm

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:...2+oil+& hl=en



OK...time out. That second source says the oil companies are looking for
government incentives to build more refineries which, according to their
internal documents, they do not need.

Wow. I'm really confused now. They'll get paid to open new facilities, and
then probably close them again.

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:06:44 +0200, Stig Arne Bye wrote:

Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

Just blame it on Bush, that's what somewhat less than half (thank God) of
Americans are doing!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:54:21 +0200, Stig Arne Bye wrote:

Stig Arne Bye wrote:

Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....


UPDATE:

Just saw the local TV news a few minutes ago:

Gas prices in Norway just made a second increase today, and has now
reached a new high record of approx. NOK 13.20 per litre, that is equal
to approx. $8.10 per US gallon.....

Now, where is this going to end.....???



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

Check with some of the folks right here. They firmly believe that if John Kerry
were elected, we would not have any price increases, nor hurricane damage for
that matter.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Bob wrote:
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:06:44 +0200, Stig Arne Bye
wrote:


20% increase in 16 hours.

and i drive 120 miles each day to school...jesus...


I hear ya.. I drive 170 miles per day now - round trip - to work. And
this morning I could hardly find a station that was open that had gas
for sale. It's not like I can stock up on gas - I'd have to find a
huge tanker somewhere since I go through a tank of gas every two days :/

"PocoLoco" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:54:21 +0200, Stig Arne Bye
wrote:

Stig Arne Bye wrote:

Today, gas prices in Norway made a jump to its highest price ever in
history, and where the price currently is approx. NOK 12.50 per litre
that equal approx. $7.70 per US gallon.....

The reason for this jump in gas prices is the current situation in the
Mexico Gulf area that severely has affected oil prices world wide, and
the longer the situation in the area continues, gas prices is expected
to become even higher.....


UPDATE:

Just saw the local TV news a few minutes ago:

Gas prices in Norway just made a second increase today, and has now
reached a new high record of approx. NOK 13.20 per litre, that is equal
to approx. $8.10 per US gallon.....

Now, where is this going to end.....???



Stig Arne Bye

E-mail ......:
Contact .....: AOL IM: VT480TFE / MSN Messenger:
Snail-Mail ..: P.O.Box 169, NO-9915 Kirkenes, Norway
Homepage ....: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!

Check with some of the folks right here. They firmly believe that if John
Kerry
were elected, we would not have any price increases, nor hurricane damage
for
that matter.
--
Yep, ol' John Kerry wanted $3 gas, and now you got it. Liberals, I hope you
are happy!

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:49:13 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in
:


"OlBlueEyes" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Rigby" wrote in
:

I would have thought that the price would drop for world oil but gas
prices here would increase.

Uh... lower supply means higher prices.

Since we can't import oil to the port in Louisiana that should mean
lower demand for oil on the world market since we can't import oil
for our demand.

This statement makes no sense at all.

Given that the demand for oil determines it's price. IF you take our
imports out of the equation there should be less demand on world oil
and it's price should drop.

Most of the oil for the US is imported thru New Orleans.

A great argument for eliminating the "single point of failure" by building
more refineries and pursuing more avenues of exploration.

If we can't
import it, we won't buy it and there should be less demand on world
oil.

Demand is determined at the end user level. For oil the end user is
not the refinery, but the commuter filling his car, the lawn service owner
filling his commercial mowers, etc. The refinery is just one link in the
chain from the raw material (crude oil coming out of the ground/ocean) to
the end user. Taking refineries offline does not decrease demand. To the
contrary, any break in the chain of delivery puts additional stresses on a
market. Those stresses are both real (refinery capacity has been
decreased) and perceived (consumers fear a coming shortage and make a run
on gas).

As another illustration, say longshoremen who unload widgets at a dock go
on strike. Demand at the end user level hasn't changed. Supply (the
number of widgets being manufactured at the offshore factory) hasn't
changed. But the price of widgets will go up because the delivery chain
has been broken.

This is why prices are behaving as they are, and why prices ALWAYS rise in
any "crisis" situation. People who complain about $500 generators selling
for $3,000 or $5 plywood boards selling for $25 don't understand basic
economics. There aren't enough generators or plywood boards for everyone,
so prices self-regulate.

Isn't the poster you are responding to saying that we can't import oil
through New Orleans. It seems your response is addressing refineries when
he is addressing an inability to import. I think an interesting question
would be how much refined oil do we export from New Orleans in which case
the shut down would effect world supply.

It seems to me that we will be importing refined products at ports
other than New Orleans (and other devestated southern areas) in order
to make up for refinery production or southern pipeline supplies.
This will clearly impact the rest of the world. We have the ability to
get oil and oil products to the vast majority of the US by alternative
means, therefore our loss of oil production and our loss of refinery
production as well as our loss of southern pipeline transport capacity
has an effect on supplies throughout the world as supplies are shifted
to those willing to pay the most - as it should be.

Dave Hall