"PocoLoco" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:44:54 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing

wrote:

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:25:37 -0400, PocoLoco
wrote:

You mean all that time I spent plowing the cut corn stalks under the
ground
(about 9" deep) was *wrong*. You could make a lot of farmers happy if you
could
convince them that plowing was a waste of time!

They already do that in New England and I would imagine in most of the
US.

In the spring, it's just a disc and harrow, then rest the field for
two/three days, then plant.

Doug is right about the gardening thing. Even when they turn a corn
field to a hay field for "resting" for a few years, it's strictly a
disc and harrow, then plant.

In the corn/hay fields I hire out, even five years or so, it's turned
into a hay field and the hay fields are turned into corn fields. Every
ten years or so, a bean crop is planted and just quickly turned over
(disc and harrow) in the Spring. That's about 125 acres of each turned
over every five years on average.

I still see a lot of plowed fields, but maybe that's just because corn
stalks
would be hard to turn over with a disc and harrow. I left the farm many
years
ago, so techniques have probably changed somewhat.

Take a closer look at what they're doing. Or, ask.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:05 -0400, PocoLoco
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:44:54 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing

wrote:

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:25:37 -0400, PocoLoco
wrote:

You mean all that time I spent plowing the cut corn stalks under the
ground
(about 9" deep) was *wrong*. You could make a lot of farmers happy if
you could
convince them that plowing was a waste of time!

They already do that in New England and I would imagine in most of the
US.

In the spring, it's just a disc and harrow, then rest the field for
two/three days, then plant.

Doug is right about the gardening thing. Even when they turn a corn
field to a hay field for "resting" for a few years, it's strictly a
disc and harrow, then plant.

In the corn/hay fields I hire out, even five years or so, it's turned
into a hay field and the hay fields are turned into corn fields. Every
ten years or so, a bean crop is planted and just quickly turned over
(disc and harrow) in the Spring. That's about 125 acres of each turned
over every five years on average.

I still see a lot of plowed fields, but maybe that's just because corn
stalks
would be hard to turn over with a disc and harrow. I left the farm many
years
ago, so techniques have probably changed somewhat.

It's amazing what they can do with some of this new equipment. The
farmer that hires out my fields has this monster disc/harrow deal with
opposing discs (at roughly 20º to each other) that just chops stuff up
and harrows at the same time.

Looks like this, only three times the size.

http://www.caseih.com/products/serie...id=105&RL=ENNA

I want one. :-) No more lawn. :-)

"Bryan" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

1) You're not supposed to turn over the soil. The soil exists in definite
layers. The layer at the top BELONGS at the top, not buried or mixed with
the layer that's a foot deeper. It contains more of the microorganisms
that make organic gardening work so well. If you screw it up, it can take
2-3 seasons to recover, and there's NO way to speed up the process using
soil amendments.

I didn't know that! I never thought of that! Hey! How about that!

I've got a yard full of clay. The kind of adobe that sticks to a shovel
like some kind of tenacious creature from another planet. I was going to
rototill amendments into the top six inches or so of an area that I want
to turn into a garden. I guess I can still do that. I'll just have to
remember to leave the top alone once I get things rolling.



Bryan, search in the rec.gardens newsgroup for the words "clay soil" in the
subject line, in a thread begun by me. I've got a friend whose soil is
suitable for making pottery, and I was looking for suggestions to assist
her. I got some good ideas from a few people. The best one was almost
effortless. Assuming you're in a climate where the ground freezes, puncture
with a pitch fork, to the depth of the fork. Don't try to actually move big
clumps of clay - just make a series of holes. Cover with a LOT of leaves. If
it's a small plot, it may be economical to cover the leaves with chicken
wire to keep them in place. Or, hose them down just enough to give them some
weight. They should mat down and stay put after a few days. You should see
some improvement in the spring, although it'll probably require repetition
the following autumn.

Do NOT add peat moss. Clay already holds plenty of water, as you know. And,
a few people recommended adding gypsum of some sort. A real garden center
will know where to get it. But, the guy I consulted here said to try the
leaves first.

Just remembered....you said California. Maybe no falling leaves in the
autumn? According to my massive library of hippie organic blather, dried
seaweed is supposed to be a great substitute for leaves.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:09:25 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Just remembered....you said California. Maybe no falling leaves in the
autumn? According to my massive library of hippie organic blather, dried
seaweed is supposed to be a great substitute for leaves.

Doug the Gardner - who 'da thunk it?

Now you understand why certain animals are on my Sopranos-style hit list.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bryan" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

1) You're not supposed to turn over the soil. The soil exists in
definite layers. The layer at the top BELONGS at the top, not buried or
mixed with the layer that's a foot deeper. It contains more of the
microorganisms that make organic gardening work so well. If you screw it
up, it can take 2-3 seasons to recover, and there's NO way to speed up
the process using soil amendments.

I didn't know that! I never thought of that! Hey! How about that!

I've got a yard full of clay. The kind of adobe that sticks to a shovel
like some kind of tenacious creature from another planet. I was going to
rototill amendments into the top six inches or so of an area that I want
to turn into a garden. I guess I can still do that. I'll just have to
remember to leave the top alone once I get things rolling.



Bryan, search in the rec.gardens newsgroup for the words "clay soil" in
the subject line, in a thread begun by me. I've got a friend whose soil is
suitable for making pottery, and I was looking for suggestions to assist
her. I got some good ideas from a few people. The best one was almost
effortless. Assuming you're in a climate where the ground freezes,
puncture with a pitch fork, to the depth of the fork. Don't try to
actually move big clumps of clay - just make a series of holes. Cover with
a LOT of leaves. If it's a small plot, it may be economical to cover the
leaves with chicken wire to keep them in place. Or, hose them down just
enough to give them some weight. They should mat down and stay put after a
few days. You should see some improvement in the spring, although it'll
probably require repetition the following autumn.

Do NOT add peat moss. Clay already holds plenty of water, as you know.
And, a few people recommended adding gypsum of some sort. A real garden
center will know where to get it. But, the guy I consulted here said to
try the leaves first.


Someone told me to mix sand with the clay, but something tells me that would
be a good way to make bricks.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Just remembered....you said California. Maybe no falling leaves in the
autumn? According to my massive library of hippie organic blather, dried
seaweed is supposed to be a great substitute for leaves.


LOL.

Kelp is plentiful. Maybe I should try that.

You non-californian's have such amusing views on California. I married a
jersey girl and I still get a smile whenever her parents ask if we're ok
because of something that might have happened in LA (over 600 miles away).

My deciduous photosynthetic unit in my backyard showed it's first color
change last week (during our 90 degree weather!). Go figure.

"Bryan" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bryan" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

1) You're not supposed to turn over the soil. The soil exists in
definite layers. The layer at the top BELONGS at the top, not buried or
mixed with the layer that's a foot deeper. It contains more of the
microorganisms that make organic gardening work so well. If you screw
it up, it can take 2-3 seasons to recover, and there's NO way to speed
up the process using soil amendments.

I didn't know that! I never thought of that! Hey! How about that!

I've got a yard full of clay. The kind of adobe that sticks to a shovel
like some kind of tenacious creature from another planet. I was going
to rototill amendments into the top six inches or so of an area that I
want to turn into a garden. I guess I can still do that. I'll just
have to remember to leave the top alone once I get things rolling.



Bryan, search in the rec.gardens newsgroup for the words "clay soil" in
the subject line, in a thread begun by me. I've got a friend whose soil
is suitable for making pottery, and I was looking for suggestions to
assist her. I got some good ideas from a few people. The best one was
almost effortless. Assuming you're in a climate where the ground freezes,
puncture with a pitch fork, to the depth of the fork. Don't try to
actually move big clumps of clay - just make a series of holes. Cover
with a LOT of leaves. If it's a small plot, it may be economical to cover
the leaves with chicken wire to keep them in place. Or, hose them down
just enough to give them some weight. They should mat down and stay put
after a few days. You should see some improvement in the spring, although
it'll probably require repetition the following autumn.

Do NOT add peat moss. Clay already holds plenty of water, as you know.
And, a few people recommended adding gypsum of some sort. A real garden
center will know where to get it. But, the guy I consulted here said to
try the leaves first.


Someone told me to mix sand with the clay, but something tells me that
would be a good way to make bricks.


Yeah...that sounds wrong to me, too. What it needs is organic fluff. Once
that's there, worms and other union members will begin to help more.