So I just bought a new boat, and am very much a newbie. The biggest
shock is being told I must stay away from reformulated gas with
ethanol. Yikes. Is that possible to do in Washington State without
paying an extra $1/gallon using Marina gas? By using it, am I really
destroying the engine, or is it more-- "just check the fuel lines and
system more often" kinda thing? Are there land based gas station
brands that don't use ethanol? I read a previous thread that
mentioned that this is not a problem with engines after '87, but my
'04 manual clearly states to avoid using fuel mixed with Ethanol.

I'm running a 99 Mercury 2.5l Hi-Performance outboard and have used 93
Sunoco gas since new. No problems yet. Sunoco contains ethanol. Back in 2002
I emailed Sunoco with the concern of ethanol and here is our conversation.
Also, check out this site www.stvowners.com or www.screamandfly.com


Question #1:

Hello, I have a 1999 Mercury outboard that requires 92 octane fuel so
naturally I use Sunoco 93 here in Pennsylvania. I noticed on the pumps that
ethanol is used, could you tell me what percentage this is? My Mercury
owners manual states that certain amounts can cause problems with
corrosion(acids) and rubber hose deterioration. But, I presume this should
not be a problem with your gas. I hope! Also, would there be any advantage
if I would run the Ultra 94? See not even a question on the high prices of
fuel because on a consumer level nothing can be done since everyone needs
fuel.


Reply:

Thanks for the questions on Sunoco fuel. I am a PA boat owner as well.
Any fuel sold in the U.S. must have less than 10% ethanol in it and our
fuel is no different. Regarding 94 vs. 93, it helps to understand how we
make 93. At Sunoco, essentially make 2 fuels at our refineries - 94 and
87. 93 and 89 are made from blends of 94 and 87. 93 is a blend of 86% 94 and
14% 87. Given that lower octane fuels typically produce more engine
deposits, one would expect to see slight increases in deposits with 93,
though it is difficult to tell whether or not your particular outboard would
'care' in the long run.

What do I use in my 12-year-old Mercury outboard? Either 93 or 94 - it
depends which of my vehicles I'm getting gas for at the time - though
usually it is 93 as that is what goes in my tow vehicle. Frankly, I don't
use much gas during the season so fuel cost is a minuscule part of my total
boating expenses. Hope this helps - feel free to reply to this email if you
have other questions.

Sunoco Product Development

Question #2:

Another question. Not sure how this applies for Pennsylvania or not but our
fuel from June 1st to about Sept is blended for reduced emissions. Does
Sunoco "oxygenate" the fuels? And generically speaking what is added or
changed with the fuel? Since my engine requires 92 octane and I run the 93,
if the fuel is oxygenated should I increase the octane to 94 or not. Does
adding oxygen create a leaner fuel/air ratio? The reason I ask is that I run
a HiPerformance boat with the Mercury 2.5l EFI 280hp and worry about
detonating with today's fuels.

Reply:

An oxygenate, technically, is anything that has oxygen in it. One
example of an oxygenate is water - H2O - though it isn't used in gasoline!
Ethanol and MTBE have oxygen in them and both have been used in gasoline for
over 20 years. The federal limits on oxygenates keeps the oxygen content
below 3%.

In the Pittsburgh area, fuel does not have to be oxygenated. This
means that refiners can opt to use them if they want to (and they might for
octane-boosting reasons) but they don't have to use them. The Pittsburgh
area does have a summertime gasoline vapor pressure restriction but that is
a different thing altogether.

Since octane is a measure of a fuel's resistance to detonation I
wouldn't worry about knock on "today's fuels" if you are abiding by
Mercury's requirements. You probably already know that you can usually hear
knock on an outboard (or so I've been told) and since you run a performance
motor I'm sure you look at the plugs and piston tops often for any signs of
detonation.

Octane ratings today are determined differently than they were 30 years
ago. Today's rating system is uniform across all gasolines and takes into
account the Motor Octane Number better. That is one reason octane ratings
today appear lower. Our famous "Sunoco 260" of old was rated at about 102
octane - a very high number - but today would be rated at about 98 octane -
still a stout number, but not as high as some of the street legal gasoline
we sell which is 100 octane.

Today's Ultra 94 would be rated at about 98 in the "good old days".
Adding oxygen to fuel usually makes it leaner (since oxygen has no Btus),
although a lot depends on the base fuel to which the oxygenate is added.
Although oxygen content can be as high as 3%, because of the added
combustion efficiency and base gasoline properties you can expect a 1% to 2%
leaner fuel mixture. This is within the range of variation of gasolines in
general which can vary 3% to 4% depending on composition and ambient
temperature (season). This information is of some value if you know how
Mercury sets up the fuel mixture in the first place, though we all know they
don't set them up lean from the factory since they know (well, they should
know) that fuel Btu values can vary and that rich mixtures are safer
than lean mixtures.

Interestingly, I've had a couple calls over the years from racing teams
who have to run a "street" fuel - they call me knowing we have the highest
octane street fuel and wondering if we sell any with alcohol in it. These
folks know what they are doing! They have been more than happy to drive
hours to get Ultra with ethanol in it since they know they'll make a little
more power with the alcohol than without.








"Mark Erskine" wrote in message
m...
So I just bought a new boat, and am very much a newbie. The biggest
shock is being told I must stay away from reformulated gas with
ethanol. Yikes. Is that possible to do in Washington State without
paying an extra $1/gallon using Marina gas? By using it, am I really
destroying the engine, or is it more-- "just check the fuel lines and
system more often" kinda thing? Are there land based gas station
brands that don't use ethanol? I read a previous thread that
mentioned that this is not a problem with engines after '87, but my
'04 manual clearly states to avoid using fuel mixed with Ethanol.

There is a possibility of increased problems for ethanol. It is unavoidable
in many places though. Because it contains alcohol it attracts water. It
is suggested that you not leave it in the tanks for extended periods. You
should check the water separator more frequently.

"Mark Erskine" wrote in message
m...
So I just bought a new boat, and am very much a newbie. The biggest
shock is being told I must stay away from reformulated gas with
ethanol. Yikes. Is that possible to do in Washington State without
paying an extra $1/gallon using Marina gas? By using it, am I really
destroying the engine, or is it more-- "just check the fuel lines and
system more often" kinda thing? Are there land based gas station
brands that don't use ethanol? I read a previous thread that
mentioned that this is not a problem with engines after '87, but my
'04 manual clearly states to avoid using fuel mixed with Ethanol.

Also Sprach Mark Erskine :

So I just bought a new boat, and am very much a newbie. The biggest
shock is being told I must stay away from reformulated gas with
ethanol. Yikes. Is that possible to do in Washington State without
paying an extra $1/gallon using Marina gas?

Sure... I buy all my gas at Costco. About a nickle a gallon cheaper than
it's competitors, and no ethanol. ARCO gas always has ethanol, Citgo has
it for 3 months of the year. (forget with months, but it says so on the
pump) I don't use 76 EVER, as it causes my car to idle for crap. No idea
why, but I've tanked up with it twice, and in both cases, 2 miles later
the car started sputtering. I don't know for sure about other brands, but
if they do contain ethanol, it will say so on the pump. BTW, check
www.seattlegasprices.com for the cheapest station near you.

Dan

--
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

- HHGTG