Galen Hekhuis wrote:


Personally, I think that this statement is indicative of a false
expectation. You aren't "safe" anywhere, people have been struck and
killed by lightning while in a church, and if you aren't "safe" there,
where can you expect to be?

A police boat is not an act of God.

It is almost universally stated that operators
of watercraft are required to maintain a sharp lookout to avoid situations
such as you experienced, and to avoid any problems with their own craft as
well. It is almost as universally acknowledged that many operators neglect
to do so.

And what no one has been able to advise yet is what more I could have
done!

I've paddled among stinkpots (power boats) a bunch, and assume
that they are all out to get me. While most are not, I have had far too
many experiences where they simply have not seen me, and seemed to be
trying their darnedest to hit me, along with a few that actually seemed to
play a game of "Sink the Kayak." One thing about stinkpots, you can
usually hear them coming and may have time to prepare.

Did you even read my post, or are you just getting something off your
chest here????

There is nothing
"safe" about crawling into a boat and there is certainly nothing "safe"
about being on the water, especially when there are larger boats about.

There's nothing safe about eating meat, there's nothing safe about
driving a car, there's nothing safe in living past 70...do you know
what "non sequitur" means?

There are many things you can do to minimize the danger, but you can
never, ever be "safe."

Uh, sorry, didn't realize this was alt.usage.english. Or should that
be sci.semantics?

I go paddling because even with the risks involved,
I get benefits that to me far outweigh the relative safety of the shore.
Perhaps you should reconsider why you paddle. Having said all that, it is
indeed a bummer that you experienced what you did.

I give now Professor Twist,
A conscientious scientist.
Trustees exclaimed, "He never bungles!"
And sent him off to distant jungles.
Camped on a tropic riverside,
One day he missed his loving bride.
She had, the guide informed him later,
Been eaten by an alligator.
Professor Twist could not but smile.
"You mean," he said, "a crocodile."

Ogden Nash, "The Purist"


You folks actually want to advocate this sport, or do you like feeling
these exclusive airs?

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We'll cross that bridge when it rears its ugly head

On 28 Jul 2005 13:23:38 -0700, "NYC XYZ" wrote:

Galen Hekhuis wrote:


Personally, I think that this statement is indicative of a false
expectation. You aren't "safe" anywhere, people have been struck and
killed by lightning while in a church, and if you aren't "safe" there,
where can you expect to be?

A police boat is not an act of God.

I didn't claim it was. I simply gave an illustration of people having a
false sense of safety.

It is almost universally stated that operators
of watercraft are required to maintain a sharp lookout to avoid situations
such as you experienced, and to avoid any problems with their own craft as
well. It is almost as universally acknowledged that many operators neglect
to do so.

And what no one has been able to advise yet is what more I could have
done!

Let me spell it out for you then. Your insistence on being given advice on
what more you "could have done" depends entirely on the supposition that
someone else may have noticed or behaved according to some set of rules. I
am pointing out that no matter what you do, people (in your case, a police
boat) don't always notice nor do they always play by the rules, regardless
of who they are.

I've paddled among stinkpots (power boats) a bunch, and assume
that they are all out to get me. While most are not, I have had far too
many experiences where they simply have not seen me, and seemed to be
trying their darnedest to hit me, along with a few that actually seemed to
play a game of "Sink the Kayak." One thing about stinkpots, you can
usually hear them coming and may have time to prepare.

Did you even read my post, or are you just getting something off your
chest here????

I read your post, I also read many of the responses to it. Again I say
that you seem to be expecting something that is impossible to achieve.

There is nothing
"safe" about crawling into a boat and there is certainly nothing "safe"
about being on the water, especially when there are larger boats about.

There's nothing safe about eating meat, there's nothing safe about
driving a car, there's nothing safe in living past 70...do you know
what "non sequitur" means?

Yes, and in a discussion about safety in a boat on the water I discussed
your perception of safety, not how you feel about eating meat, or driving a
car, or any of the things you mention. Do you know the meaning of "non
sequitur"?

There are many things you can do to minimize the danger, but you can
never, ever be "safe."

Uh, sorry, didn't realize this was alt.usage.english. Or should that
be sci.semantics?

Neither. Even a simpleton can see that a statement about never being safe
in the water is hardly a semantic or syntactical issue.

I go paddling because even with the risks involved,
I get benefits that to me far outweigh the relative safety of the shore.
Perhaps you should reconsider why you paddle. Having said all that, it is
indeed a bummer that you experienced what you did.

I give now Professor Twist,
A conscientious scientist.
Trustees exclaimed, "He never bungles!"
And sent him off to distant jungles.
Camped on a tropic riverside,
One day he missed his loving bride.
She had, the guide informed him later,
Been eaten by an alligator.
Professor Twist could not but smile.
"You mean," he said, "a crocodile."

Ogden Nash, "The Purist"

In that particular case, the difference between an alligator and a
crocodile is quite dramatic. I live where there are several many
alligators, and the southern part of the state (where I also go paddling)
is the only place in the entire world where alligators and crocodiles
cohabitate. Alligators are generally harmless and for the most part not
aggressive at all, while crocodiles are quite frequently rather aggressive.
The instances of alligator attacks are minuscule when compared to crocodile
attacks. It would indeed be strange for anyone to be attacked by an
unprovoked alligator (although it has happened). I can understand,
however, that many people think that this is a "distinction without a
difference," as many consider "alligator" to be somewhat synonymous with
"crocodile."

You folks actually want to advocate this sport, or do you like feeling
these exclusive airs?

I neither advocate this sport, nor do I actively try to discourage people
from taking it up. I've lived on sailboats, and have sailed from places in
Hawaii to the ICW on the east coast. Whenever you leave land for a boat on
the water there are things which can "get you" no matter what precautions
you take. I have found quite often that safety is frequently in the hands
of the sailor, not in being observed or noticed by others, and not in the
"Rules of the Road," no matter how much in the right you may be. If you
would rather argue (and that does seem to be the case, based on your
responses to this thread) than have risks pointed out to you, you'll have
to find someone else with whom to argue.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We'll cross that bridge when it rears its ugly head

Galen Hekhuis wrote:
On 28 Jul 2005 13:23:38 -0700, "NYC XYZ" wrote:

Galen Hekhuis wrote:


Personally, I think that this statement is indicative of a false
expectation. You aren't "safe" anywhere, people have been struck and
killed by lightning while in a church, and if you aren't "safe" there,
where can you expect to be?

A police boat is not an act of God.

I didn't claim it was. I simply gave an illustration of people having a
false sense of safety.

AMAZING!!! Talk about apples and oranges -- no, apples and basketballs
-- and chutzpah on top of it all!

You compared the incomparable, and now say you didn't mean by that
comparison that they were comparable.

Astounding! And creepy, too.

Let me spell it out for you then. Your insistence on being given advice on
what more you "could have done" depends entirely on the supposition that
someone else may have noticed or behaved according to some set of rules.

THE WHOLE POINT of "what can I do" is PRECISELY BECAUSE of the
assumption that the other party will not have noticed or behaved
accordingly. The whole point of defensive driving is that the other
party's not going to be helpful at all.

I
am pointing out that no matter what you do, people (in your case, a police
boat) don't always notice nor do they always play by the rules, regardless
of who they are.

So then is the answer that I have done all I could have, after all?
After all this attempt at blaming the victim, can you finally admit
that I've done all I should have, had my lights and hugged the shore?

I read your post, I also read many of the responses to it. Again I say
that you seem to be expecting something that is impossible to achieve.

Impossible to achieve safety, you mean?

Safety is no accident. I guess we just have different philosophical
orientations towards life.

Y'all just have this very, very strange bias towards the victim of a
boating mishap through no fault of his own. I noticed it right away,
and I can only say that it's just like in the Book of Job....

Yes, and in a discussion about safety in a boat on the water I discussed
your perception of safety, not how you feel about eating meat, or driving a
car, or any of the things you mention. Do you know the meaning of "non
sequitur"?

Yes, and in a discussion about how safety in a boat is achieved it's
TOTALLY BESIDES THE POINT -- NON SEQUITUR, DOES NOT FOLLOW -- to
discuss how my expectation of safety following rules and such is like
expecting to be safe from lightening in a church.

NOW do you know what "non sequitur" means??

Neither. Even a simpleton can see that a statement about never being safe
in the water is hardly a semantic or syntactical issue.

Even less than a simpleton can see it's definitely a semantic issue
because you know what I mean but since you want to blame the victim --
how dare you think you can enjoy this sport safely! -- you want to make
"safety" mean "percetion OF safety."

In that particular case, the difference between an alligator and a
crocodile is quite dramatic. I live where there are several many
alligators, and the southern part of the state (where I also go paddling)
is the only place in the entire world where alligators and crocodiles
cohabitate. Alligators are generally harmless and for the most part not
aggressive at all, while crocodiles are quite frequently rather aggressive.
The instances of alligator attacks are minuscule when compared to crocodile
attacks. It would indeed be strange for anyone to be attacked by an
unprovoked alligator (although it has happened). I can understand,
however, that many people think that this is a "distinction without a
difference," as many consider "alligator" to be somewhat synonymous with
"crocodile."

LOL -- but for the purposes of "missing his bride," it doesn't matter
what she was eaten by, was she?

It's like the old Buddhist parable of Man as being struck by an arrow
but refusing treatment until first establishing the make of the weapon,
the identity of its bearer, the reason for its employment, the velocity
of its attack....

I neither advocate this sport, nor do I actively try to discourage people
from taking it up. I've lived on sailboats, and have sailed from places in
Hawaii to the ICW on the east coast. Whenever you leave land for a boat on
the water there are things which can "get you" no matter what precautions
you take.

Fine, but that's hardly the topic I was raising.

Again, I only inquired this much, really:

1) Was there anything more I could have done?

2) Were the cops in the wrong lane?

Very simple questions, truly. If y'all don't know, don't pretend to,
and get in a huff over my bewilderment, please? For your own sakes,
since you guys sound irritated, though by an itch indigenous to your
own characters.

I have found quite often that safety is frequently in the hands
of the sailor, not in being observed or noticed by others, and not in the
"Rules of the Road," no matter how much in the right you may be.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO what more could/should I have done???

God, it's like pulling teeth! It's like a manipulative little kid!
It's like separating a leopard from his spots!

If you
would rather argue (and that does seem to be the case, based on your
responses to this thread) than have risks pointed out to you, you'll have
to find someone else with whom to argue.

The amazing thing is that you people want to blame me for this
incident, while not responding to the simple questions I'd asked, and
then claim I'm the one being argumentative! And it's all recorded in
black and white, right in front of your eyes, but your need to find
fault with me is so great that your own contradictions and logical
fallcies all spelled out still remains invisible to you!

By Neptune's Beard, no wonder paddlers get no respect on the water!
Y'all are a bunch of push-overs! I'm glad bicyclists got more pride
and sense of rights, or else NYC wouldn't be the mildly bike-friendly
town it is! I **** you not, this is one sport full of ****ed-up folks,
from the 'yak salesman that pooh-poohs Prijon boats to y'all here
blaming one of your own for what is clearly something that at least not
his fault, if not the police's for not exercising caution as the more
powerful party!

I'm here being accused of almost provoking the whole affair, while only
the kops are presumed innocent??

Truly you are a sad and disgusting lot. Honestly, this is one sad
sport when its enthusiasts so easily assume obsequiousness.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We'll cross that bridge when it rears its ugly head

NYC XYZ wrote:



Fine, but that's hardly the topic I was raising.

Again, I only inquired this much, really:

1) Was there anything more I could have done?

Yes.


2) Were the cops in the wrong lane?


No. There are no lanes. It ain't the BQE.



Very simple questions, truly.


One's you could easily answer yourself by doing a little objective
review of the circumstances. Apparently not all of us are capable of
learning from our mistakes.


SOOOOOOOOOOOO what more could/should I have done???

Better (brighter) deck lights. A backup flashlight that you could raise
and shine directly at the oncomimg boat or a head mounted directional
light. Reflective tape on your boat and/or vest. An air horn or a loud
wistle. A water craft appropriate for the conditions in which you were
paddling (potential for large boat wake). Better developed skills before
putting yourself in such a situation. More knowledge of the potential
dangers of the waterway )potential for large boat wake). I guess in
your case, you could have worn a helmet. There's probably more.


God, it's like pulling teeth!

Heh...



Truly you are a sad and disgusting lot. Honestly, this is one sad
sport when its enthusiasts so easily assume obsequiousness.

Feel free to leave us for good.

NYC: "You folks actually want to advocate this sport, or do you like
feeling
these exclusive airs? "

Why do I feel our collective chains are being yanked by someone like
Mr. Weiser? Is it just me....?

BCITORGB wrote:
NYC: "You folks actually want to advocate this sport, or do you like
feeling
these exclusive airs? "

Why do I feel our collective chains are being yanked by someone like
Mr. Weiser? Is it just me....?


Terrorist! Coward! You pedophile!

You people are a real laugh: sheep paddling kayaks!