"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:20:13 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:

Most power problems, etc, do not take out the drive, so taking out both
is
extremely rare.. But how much info do you really need to backup? I put
my
Excel and .doc and quickbooks data on a CD each month. Most of the
stuff,
is rebuildable or not really needed. And how long you going to take to
backup your system? Using a 2nd drive and xcopy and you can boot in
minutes. You running a business, depending on the data, then get a raid
system and large removable drives. And keep them offsite.


Well, Bill, if you don't care about data protection, then I agree that a
second
drive is adequate in your case. It's barely better than no backup at all
for the
majority of things that can go wrong.

Meanwhile, the purpose of data backups is to prevent loss. Almost
everyone has
fire insurance on their homes, yet very few ever need it. Rarity of loss
is not
the criteria, value of the data is the criteria. Power problems taking
out
drives or causing data corruption is rare, but IT HAPPENS. That's what
backups
are for. If those things did not happen, no one would need backups at
all.

It doesn't matter how long my home backups take, as I am asleep when they
are
being made. I take the DVD to work, figuring that my house and office
will
hopefully not both burn down the same day. If they do, then I'm out of
luck!
I've greatly reduced my risk though... A second hard drive barely does
anything
to reduce your risk. It is about the weakest system of backup. Very
convenient,
perhaps, but safety is rarely measured by convenience. Most safety
measures in
any area, come at the cost of some convenience.

At work, our MAN has over 50 servers and all data gets backed up to a
central
backup system every night. Those tapes are picked up by a service and
taken
offsite for safekeeping.

rusty redcloud



"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:05:12 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:

Put a 2nd as big disk in and just back up to it.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Full backup once a week, incrementals every night.



That's about the weakest form of "backup" there is. It's almost not
even
worth
doing. Most things that cause data loss would cause loss of your backup
drive as
well. Virus? Power surge? Fire? Theft? File corruption? It's not really
a
backup
if it is part of the computer. Backups, to be effective data
protection,
need to
be on removable media, and stored offsite.

rusty redcloud



When I was in the business world, I did backups to tapes and stored
offsite. For most home computers, how much have you lost? Your email
history? I understand backups very well as I designed disk subsystems as
well as the disk drives. Search the US PTO and you can even see my name
on disk drive patent.


It indeed makes sense for a business to backup regularly and store the
backup tapes off site (as simple as having a trusted employee bringing them
home.).

I do backups on my personal computer only so I do not have to do a full
reinstall in the event of a problem. It can take a full day just to
reformat, then reinstall the OS and programs. I do not, however, go to the
extreme of taking my backup off site.

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:20:13 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:

Most power problems, etc, do not take out the drive, so taking out both
is
extremely rare.. But how much info do you really need to backup? I put
my
Excel and .doc and quickbooks data on a CD each month. Most of the
stuff,
is rebuildable or not really needed. And how long you going to take to
backup your system? Using a 2nd drive and xcopy and you can boot in
minutes. You running a business, depending on the data, then get a raid
system and large removable drives. And keep them offsite.


Well, Bill, if you don't care about data protection, then I agree that a
second
drive is adequate in your case. It's barely better than no backup at all
for the
majority of things that can go wrong.

Meanwhile, the purpose of data backups is to prevent loss. Almost
everyone
has
fire insurance on their homes, yet very few ever need it. Rarity of loss
is not
the criteria, value of the data is the criteria. Power problems taking
out
drives or causing data corruption is rare, but IT HAPPENS. That's what
backups
are for. If those things did not happen, no one would need backups at
all.

It doesn't matter how long my home backups take, as I am asleep when
they
are
being made. I take the DVD to work, figuring that my house and office
will
hopefully not both burn down the same day. If they do, then I'm out of
luck!
I've greatly reduced my risk though... A second hard drive barely does
anything
to reduce your risk. It is about the weakest system of backup. Very
convenient,
perhaps, but safety is rarely measured by convenience. Most safety
measures in
any area, come at the cost of some convenience.

At work, our MAN has over 50 servers and all data gets backed up to a
central
backup system every night. Those tapes are picked up by a service and
taken
offsite for safekeeping.

rusty redcloud



"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:05:12 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:

Put a 2nd as big disk in and just back up to it.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Full backup once a week, incrementals every night.



That's about the weakest form of "backup" there is. It's almost not
even
worth
doing. Most things that cause data loss would cause loss of your
backup
drive as
well. Virus? Power surge? Fire? Theft? File corruption? It's not
really
a
backup
if it is part of the computer. Backups, to be effective data
protection,
need to
be on removable media, and stored offsite.

rusty redcloud



When I was in the business world, I did backups to tapes and stored
offsite.
For most home computers, how much have you lost? Your email history? I
understand backups very well as I designed disk subsystems as well as the
disk drives. Search the US PTO and you can even see my name on disk drive
patent.

Not bad for a "handyman" ;-)

There can be some information on your home computers that cant be replace,
not just emails are kept on home computers. What about if you are using it
for geneolgy ? Or photos of your family that were taken with a ditigal cam?
Its foolish to say all your going to lose is emails. Each person uses there
home computers for different things, thus I feel back ups are very important
to some and not as to others. I know im using my computer at home for
college course work, I do make backs ups becuase of the time i have into it.
Just my opinion ;)

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:20:13 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:

Most power problems, etc, do not take out the drive, so taking out both
is
extremely rare.. But how much info do you really need to backup? I put
my
Excel and .doc and quickbooks data on a CD each month. Most of the
stuff,
is rebuildable or not really needed. And how long you going to take to
backup your system? Using a 2nd drive and xcopy and you can boot in
minutes. You running a business, depending on the data, then get a raid
system and large removable drives. And keep them offsite.


Well, Bill, if you don't care about data protection, then I agree that a
second
drive is adequate in your case. It's barely better than no backup at all
for the
majority of things that can go wrong.

Meanwhile, the purpose of data backups is to prevent loss. Almost
everyone has
fire insurance on their homes, yet very few ever need it. Rarity of loss
is not
the criteria, value of the data is the criteria. Power problems taking
out
drives or causing data corruption is rare, but IT HAPPENS. That's what
backups
are for. If those things did not happen, no one would need backups at
all.

It doesn't matter how long my home backups take, as I am asleep when they
are
being made. I take the DVD to work, figuring that my house and office
will
hopefully not both burn down the same day. If they do, then I'm out of
luck!
I've greatly reduced my risk though... A second hard drive barely does
anything
to reduce your risk. It is about the weakest system of backup. Very
convenient,
perhaps, but safety is rarely measured by convenience. Most safety
measures in
any area, come at the cost of some convenience.

At work, our MAN has over 50 servers and all data gets backed up to a
central
backup system every night. Those tapes are picked up by a service and
taken
offsite for safekeeping.

rusty redcloud



"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:05:12 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:

Put a 2nd as big disk in and just back up to it.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Full backup once a week, incrementals every night.



That's about the weakest form of "backup" there is. It's almost not
even
worth
doing. Most things that cause data loss would cause loss of your backup
drive as
well. Virus? Power surge? Fire? Theft? File corruption? It's not really
a
backup
if it is part of the computer. Backups, to be effective data
protection,
need to
be on removable media, and stored offsite.

rusty redcloud



When I was in the business world, I did backups to tapes and stored
offsite. For most home computers, how much have you lost? Your email
history? I understand backups very well as I designed disk subsystems as
well as the disk drives. Search the US PTO and you can even see my name
on disk drive patent.

As I said earlier, you can back up to removable media, the stuff that is
really important. Most of the stuff, on the home PC is replaceable /
rebuildable.
Bill

"ed" wrote in message
...
There can be some information on your home computers that cant be replace,
not just emails are kept on home computers. What about if you are using it
for geneolgy ? Or photos of your family that were taken with a ditigal
cam? Its foolish to say all your going to lose is emails. Each person uses
there home computers for different things, thus I feel back ups are very
important to some and not as to others. I know im using my computer at
home for college course work, I do make backs ups becuase of the time i
have into it. Just my opinion ;)

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:20:13 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:

Most power problems, etc, do not take out the drive, so taking out both
is
extremely rare.. But how much info do you really need to backup? I put
my
Excel and .doc and quickbooks data on a CD each month. Most of the
stuff,
is rebuildable or not really needed. And how long you going to take to
backup your system? Using a 2nd drive and xcopy and you can boot in
minutes. You running a business, depending on the data, then get a raid
system and large removable drives. And keep them offsite.


Well, Bill, if you don't care about data protection, then I agree that a
second
drive is adequate in your case. It's barely better than no backup at all
for the
majority of things that can go wrong.

Meanwhile, the purpose of data backups is to prevent loss. Almost
everyone has
fire insurance on their homes, yet very few ever need it. Rarity of loss
is not
the criteria, value of the data is the criteria. Power problems taking
out
drives or causing data corruption is rare, but IT HAPPENS. That's what
backups
are for. If those things did not happen, no one would need backups at
all.

It doesn't matter how long my home backups take, as I am asleep when
they are
being made. I take the DVD to work, figuring that my house and office
will
hopefully not both burn down the same day. If they do, then I'm out of
luck!
I've greatly reduced my risk though... A second hard drive barely does
anything
to reduce your risk. It is about the weakest system of backup. Very
convenient,
perhaps, but safety is rarely measured by convenience. Most safety
measures in
any area, come at the cost of some convenience.

At work, our MAN has over 50 servers and all data gets backed up to a
central
backup system every night. Those tapes are picked up by a service and
taken
offsite for safekeeping.

rusty redcloud



"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:05:12 GMT, "Bill McKee"

wrote:

Put a 2nd as big disk in and just back up to it.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Full backup once a week, incrementals every night.



That's about the weakest form of "backup" there is. It's almost not
even
worth
doing. Most things that cause data loss would cause loss of your
backup
drive as
well. Virus? Power surge? Fire? Theft? File corruption? It's not
really a
backup
if it is part of the computer. Backups, to be effective data
protection,
need to
be on removable media, and stored offsite.

rusty redcloud



When I was in the business world, I did backups to tapes and stored
offsite. For most home computers, how much have you lost? Your email
history? I understand backups very well as I designed disk subsystems as
well as the disk drives. Search the US PTO and you can even see my name
on disk drive patent.