Should I disconnect trailer lights on launch ?
 

Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)

It's not a myth. I've blown several over the years and tend to disconnect
my "standard" lights on my duck boat trailer. Of course, I usually put that
in the water when the temp is 40 deg or so. You might try putting it in
without disconnecting but have spare bulbs with you, have someone check the
lights before leaving and be prepared to change the bulbs. I think buck or
so for a couple of bulbs is well worth not having to disconnect the lights
every time. If you do have a problem, you might consider a set of the LED
lights for 40-50 $. I just put a set on my 20 footer . In addition to the
bulb problem I also had the high corrosive action of salt water. If so, be
sure to fill any connectors w/silicone before crimping ot otherwise
waterproof.
LD

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)

only if the lights are cheap and water gets to the bulbs. I use LED
lightning and it's not a worry.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 06:24:38 -0400, "Woodchuck"
wrote:

only if the lights are cheap and water gets to the bulbs. I use LED
lightning and it's not a worry.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)

I used to disconnect the trailer lights all the time, but when I got
sealed units, I stopped. Since then, I just dunk the trailer and not
worry about it. So far, I haven't had a bulb blow or any other kind
of failure like that on the little trailer I have.

I don't believe it's really necessary to disconnect.

TTFN,

Tom

"Bodies are for hookers and fat people."
Bender - "Futurama"

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 06:24:38 -0400, "Woodchuck"
wrote:

only if the lights are cheap and water gets to the bulbs. I use LED
lightning and it's not a worry.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)

Try it and find out....

At a buck a bulb and 2 minutes to change, its not worth it.
JMO.
Hey did you get my post about the gas tank?
Steve
"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)

Mr. Wizzard wrote:
Heard from some that you should disconnect the tailer lights before
putting your trailer in the water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are
they worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting the cold water ?
=A0 Is this a myth, or is this something I should continue to do (pain
in ass)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Depends on what kind of bulbs you have on the trailer. If you're using
standard automotive bulbs, they're likely to shatter when you launch if
they've been turned on long enough to get hot. You can get special
bulbs that are resistant to shattering in cold water at most marine
supply stores. About double the price of automotive bulbs. I always
disconnect even tho I use the marine type.

Happy boating, Norm

"seeray28" wrote in message
...
At a buck a bulb and 2 minutes to change, its not worth it.
JMO.

Hey did you get my post about the gas tank?

No, I must of missed it. Link ? (or repost?)

Yes ... I for one do not want to get stopped (or even worse rear ended etc
.... not that likely but ... ) on the way back home at night because of a
failed tail light/stop light/turn signal. Yeah, I know ... check all lights
before you get going, and always carry spare bulbs, ...

Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ?

I figured out how to take care of the gas tank/gauge issue if your
interested. I measured the depth of the tank with a tape measure. Without
the top portion,the tank is right at 7 inches tall, I then divided 7 inches
by 4 equalling 1.75 inches. starting at the bottom of the tank measure up
1.75 inches and make a mark with a magic marker. That is a 1/4 tank. measure
again 1.75 inches from that mark now you have a 1/2 tank or 9 gallons left
in the tank. Measure again from the 1/2 mark and now you have 3/4 tank.
Measure again 1.75 and you have a full 18 gallons.
When this boat was first produced it came with a 18 gallon fuel tank. In our
boats they just added that top portion of the tank to get 21 gallons. If we
use that as a reserve of 3 gallons then we should be ok



"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...

"seeray28" wrote in message
...
At a buck a bulb and 2 minutes to change, its not worth it.
JMO.

Hey did you get my post about the gas tank?

No, I must of missed it. Link ? (or repost?)

"seeray28" wrote in message
...
I figured out how to take care of the gas tank/gauge issue if your
interested. I measured the depth of the tank with a tape measure. Without
the top portion,the tank is right at 7 inches tall, I then divided 7
inches
by 4 equalling 1.75 inches. starting at the bottom of the tank measure up
1.75 inches and make a mark with a magic marker. That is a 1/4 tank.
measure
again 1.75 inches from that mark now you have a 1/2 tank or 9 gallons left
in the tank. Measure again from the 1/2 mark and now you have 3/4 tank.
Measure again 1.75 and you have a full 18 gallons.
When this boat was first produced it came with a 18 gallon fuel tank. In
our
boats they just added that top portion of the tank to get 21 gallons. If
we
use that as a reserve of 3 gallons then we should be ok

Ahhhh! excelent dude !! This *also* explains the
dispute I had with the salesman at Olympic Boat
center too over this. On the showroom floor, the
big information board on the boat said 21 gallons,
but the salesman said that was a "misprint", and
he showed me his little Bayliner spec book that
said it was 18, and he said that info board on the
showroom floor was a misprint. You rock dude.

Also, I'm looking into the trim gague inaccuracy
situation too, and working on a dash light dimmer
situation. As soon as I come up with something
easy, and doable by the average Joe, I'll post it.
(might involve a trip to Radio Shack).

So how you liking the '05 175 so far? Also,
was it you that mentioned that ~31Mph seeet
spot? If so, I gotta tell you dude, I found it last
week, and it was unbelievable. Was crusing
around, and then all of a sudden everrthing
quieted down, and it was just I started floating
on air - the boat found "Zen", and it was the
smoothest thing I'd ever felt. Lasted a few
minutes, and once I touched the throttle I
lost it, and never seems to get it back. Amazing.
Also, (still at less than 20 hrs breakin), but one
time I did do WOT it it seemed to go up past
4,800 RPM, and near 5000, so that worried
me. So it doesn't top out at 4,800 naturally ?

Thanks







"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...

"seeray28" wrote in message
...
At a buck a bulb and 2 minutes to change, its not worth it.
JMO.

Hey did you get my post about the gas tank?

No, I must of missed it. Link ? (or repost?)

I pull the plug, but mainly because it also disconnects my electric trailer
brakes. Also makes me nervous to have the truck's electrical system
connected to wiring that's in the water (however benign it may be).


"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)

misprint my ass, take a look at this link down towards the bottom.
http://www.baylinerboats.com/Runabou...4195&year=2005

I think I had your salesmens brother at buds place, he told me that the blue
drainage lines off the engine had a valve and that all you have to do is
turn the handle at the engine and the water will drain out.

Your boatting "zen" you just got to play with the trim somemore, you will
find it. at 3200 rpm and trimmed right, this thing does float nice. I
usually trim the boat by the sound of the engine. If its sounding loud then
I trim down a little at a time till it sounds like its JUST under a load..
So far this boat has proven its worth, I finally got tired of the crappy
idle and bumped it up a little. Much better now.. I did find out though that
it does not like hard left turns at full throttle, it will bog down due to
fuel starvation. Not a big deal since you really shouldnt be turning that
hard at full speed.
The rev limiter kicks in at 4900 so dont worry too much about the rpms, just
keep an eye on the tach and you will be fine

Steve


"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...

"seeray28" wrote in message
...
I figured out how to take care of the gas tank/gauge issue if your
interested. I measured the depth of the tank with a tape measure.
Without
the top portion,the tank is right at 7 inches tall, I then divided 7
inches
by 4 equalling 1.75 inches. starting at the bottom of the tank measure
up
1.75 inches and make a mark with a magic marker. That is a 1/4 tank.
measure
again 1.75 inches from that mark now you have a 1/2 tank or 9 gallons
left
in the tank. Measure again from the 1/2 mark and now you have 3/4 tank.
Measure again 1.75 and you have a full 18 gallons.
When this boat was first produced it came with a 18 gallon fuel tank. In
our
boats they just added that top portion of the tank to get 21 gallons. If
we
use that as a reserve of 3 gallons then we should be ok

Ahhhh! excelent dude !! This *also* explains the
dispute I had with the salesman at Olympic Boat
center too over this. On the showroom floor, the
big information board on the boat said 21 gallons,
but the salesman said that was a "misprint", and
he showed me his little Bayliner spec book that
said it was 18, and he said that info board on the
showroom floor was a misprint. You rock dude.

Also, I'm looking into the trim gague inaccuracy
situation too, and working on a dash light dimmer
situation. As soon as I come up with something
easy, and doable by the average Joe, I'll post it.
(might involve a trip to Radio Shack).

So how you liking the '05 175 so far? Also,
was it you that mentioned that ~31Mph seeet
spot? If so, I gotta tell you dude, I found it last
week, and it was unbelievable. Was crusing
around, and then all of a sudden everrthing
quieted down, and it was just I started floating
on air - the boat found "Zen", and it was the
smoothest thing I'd ever felt. Lasted a few
minutes, and once I touched the throttle I
lost it, and never seems to get it back. Amazing.
Also, (still at less than 20 hrs breakin), but one
time I did do WOT it it seemed to go up past
4,800 RPM, and near 5000, so that worried
me. So it doesn't top out at 4,800 naturally ?

Thanks







"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...

"seeray28" wrote in message
...
At a buck a bulb and 2 minutes to change, its not worth it.
JMO.

Hey did you get my post about the gas tank?

No, I must of missed it. Link ? (or repost?)

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)




My trailer has a label (from the manufacturer) with a list of trailering
steps to remember. The last comment on the label is a note that they
recommend disconnecting the trailer lights before attempting a launch. That
means I need to protect the male and female connections on the trailer and
the truck, respectively, from water. I know that I am going to back my
truck deep enough to wet the female receptors on the truck. So, who's got
the answer?

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 06:24:38 -0400, "Woodchuck"
wrote:

only if the lights are cheap and water gets to the bulbs. I use LED
lightning and it's not a worry.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)

I used to disconnect the trailer lights all the time, but when I got
sealed units, I stopped. Since then, I just dunk the trailer and not
worry about it. So far, I haven't had a bulb blow or any other kind
of failure like that on the little trailer I have.

I don't believe it's really necessary to disconnect.

TTFN,

Tom

"Bodies are for hookers and fat people."
Bender - "Futurama"

Depends on the type of lights. The bell jar type, suck more water as the
lights heat up hte air inside, and then the cold water cools the air,
allowing more water in. Blew to many lights over the years. My big boat
trailer is now LED (about $35 from Bass Pro shops). No more problems.

"seeray28" wrote in message
...
At a buck a bulb and 2 minutes to change, its not worth it.
JMO.

But you have to change them when you are tired from a day of boating, and
crawling around on the ground to do the job. And corrosion in the light
makes the job really bat at times. Buy a set of LED lights. There is a
reason all semi trucks now use LED trailer lights.

Do not back up so deep.

"Bryan" wrote in message
. ..

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)




My trailer has a label (from the manufacturer) with a list of trailering
steps to remember. The last comment on the label is a note that they
recommend disconnecting the trailer lights before attempting a launch.
That means I need to protect the male and female connections on the
trailer and the truck, respectively, from water. I know that I am going
to back my truck deep enough to wet the female receptors on the truck.
So, who's got the answer?

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
k.net...

"seeray28" wrote in message
...
At a buck a bulb and 2 minutes to change, its not worth it.
JMO.

But you have to change them when you are tired from a day of boating, and
crawling around on the ground to do the job. And corrosion in the light
makes the job really bat at times. Buy a set of LED lights. There is a
reason all semi trucks now use LED trailer lights.

So is the idea to replace *all* of the bulbs with LED's?
(including all of the side marker lights), or just the big
ones (that would tend to get the hottest, and shattering) ?

"Stanley Barthfarkle" wrote in message
...
I pull the plug, but mainly because it also disconnects my electric
trailer
brakes.

Also makes me nervous to have the truck's electrical system
connected to wiring that's in the water (however benign it may be).

Yeah, 12 volts in water (even salt water) is not a
risk in it of itself, but yeah, I can understand that.



"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)

"Bryan" wrote in message
. ..

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)




My trailer has a label (from the manufacturer) with a list of trailering
steps to remember. The last comment on the label is a note that they
recommend disconnecting the trailer lights before attempting a launch.
That
means I need to protect the male and female connections on the trailer and
the truck, respectively, from water. I know that I am going to back my
truck deep enough to wet the female receptors on the truck. So, who's got
the answer?

Well first off, you need to understand the risk of what we're
talking about. The water on/in the connector is not the issue,
nor is it having 12 volts in water - its the hot light bulbs hitting
the cold water and possibly shattering. Don't worry about the
connectors getting wet, it won't hurt anything. If you are
worried about corosion, spray the female (and male) parts
of the connectors with silicone spray)

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...

Do not back up so deep.

The female connector on the truck is going to
get wet no matter what - like in big rain storm.


"Bryan" wrote in message
. ..

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)




My trailer has a label (from the manufacturer) with a list of trailering
steps to remember. The last comment on the label is a note that they
recommend disconnecting the trailer lights before attempting a launch.
That means I need to protect the male and female connections on the
trailer and the truck, respectively, from water. I know that I am going
to back my truck deep enough to wet the female receptors on the truck.
So, who's got the answer?

Can you explain again why you need to back in so deep? Also beware that if
you're talking sal****er, you're talking a rotted out tow vehicle in no time
flat!
G


"Bryan" wrote in message
. ..

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)




My trailer has a label (from the manufacturer) with a list of trailering
steps to remember. The last comment on the label is a note that they
recommend disconnecting the trailer lights before attempting a launch.
That
means I need to protect the male and female connections on the trailer and
the truck, respectively, from water. I know that I am going to back my
truck deep enough to wet the female receptors on the truck. So, who's got
the answer?

Gordon wrote:
Can you explain again why you need to back in so deep? Also beware that if
you're talking sal****er, you're talking a rotted out tow vehicle in no time
flat!
G


Might be time to get the tongue lengthened.

I have replaced them all. The side lights did not break, they just always
got corroded and failed to work.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
k.net...

"seeray28" wrote in message
...
At a buck a bulb and 2 minutes to change, its not worth it.
JMO.

But you have to change them when you are tired from a day of boating, and
crawling around on the ground to do the job. And corrosion in the light
makes the job really bat at times. Buy a set of LED lights. There is a
reason all semi trucks now use LED trailer lights.

So is the idea to replace *all* of the bulbs with LED's?
(including all of the side marker lights), or just the big
ones (that would tend to get the hottest, and shattering) ?

Lot of difference between dunking the connector, especially in salt water,
and rain spray. I do not notice a lot of moisture in the plug when I pull
it after a rainy day tow.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...

Do not back up so deep.

The female connector on the truck is going to
get wet no matter what - like in big rain storm.


"Bryan" wrote in message
. ..

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
...
Heard from some that you should disconnect
the tailer lights before putting your trailer in the
water. I can't see why you'd do that. Are they
worried about a hot bulbs shattering when hitting
the cold water ? Is this a myth, or is this
something I should continue to do (pain in ass)




My trailer has a label (from the manufacturer) with a list of
trailering
steps to remember. The last comment on the label is a note that they
recommend disconnecting the trailer lights before attempting a launch.
That means I need to protect the male and female connections on the
trailer and the truck, respectively, from water. I know that I am
going
to back my truck deep enough to wet the female receptors on the truck.
So, who's got the answer?

Actually, I wasn't speaking of any risk from shock- just that a modern
truck's electrical system is a fairly complex beast, with the computer
control and numerous sensors, etc. Same reason I wouldn't dip my laptop
mouse in the tub.



Yeah, 12 volts in water (even salt water) is not a
risk in it of itself, but yeah, I can understand that.

"Stanley Barthfarkle" wrote in message
. ..
Actually, I wasn't speaking of any risk from shock- just that a modern
truck's electrical system is a fairly complex beast, with the computer
control and numerous sensors, etc.

Same reason I wouldn't dip my laptop
mouse in the tub.

Oh now wait a second here.... Apples/Oranges.
Computer/electronics is one thing, but a simple
low-voltage "electrical" system (non computer)
is quite another. No matter how complex the
truck is, a simple lighting circuit is just that, simple.
Maybe just symantics here, but this is how "myths"
get started. Next thing you know, people will be
going around saying that you need to disconnect
trailer light before launch or you'll blow your
on-board computer, hehe. If we're talking about
cause-n-effects, we should all at least have "some"
sence of realistic reasoning when talking about this
stuff.



Yeah, 12 volts in water (even salt water) is not a
risk in it of itself, but yeah, I can understand that.

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:40:42 -0700, "Mr Wizzard"
wrote:


Last year, about this time, I replaced all four brake rotors, backing
plates, and calipers. I'm about 99.44% sure that this was necessary
because people had backed my trailer without releasing the surge
brakes electrically (that is the only way to do so with my coupler).

Can you explain this to me? ...Or explain your thoery on
why not releasing surge brakes caused all this apparatus
to fail ? (I don't know jack about surge brakes), but it
would seem to me that if you tried to back up a trailer
with brakes on that it would be hop, skip, and jumping
all around the place, and generally lettung you know that
the brakes are on. Also, I lost track of how any of this
was caused by water etc. (something about the solenoids?)

Thanks





When I replaced the brakes, I checked the springs and felt that I
could get a few more years service out of them. However, this year I
replaced all four springs, one of which failed, one fell apart while I
was removing it, and the other two had cracks in at leas one leaf.
Again, I'm pretty sure these springs were damaged by torque from
locked rotors...
--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/
Homepage
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

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On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:18:07 -0400, "Gene Kearns"
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:16:02 -0700, "Mr Wizzard"
wrote:


Can you explain this to me? ...Or explain your thoery on
why not releasing surge brakes caused all this apparatus
to fail ? (I don't know jack about surge brakes), but it
would seem to me that if you tried to back up a trailer
with brakes on that it would be hop, skip, and jumping
all around the place, and generally lettung you know that
the brakes are on.

Basically, you are correct... bottom line is, you have to give a sh*t.
Every time I have observed this problem has been soon after
maintenance or yard related moves. If you have a big enough tow
vehicle, you can muscle around even the largest trailers and that
bends backing plates. strains brake pads, and torques the axles and
springs....

FYI, a surge brake system doesn't know the difference between wishing
to stop or slow down the trailer and backing a trailer up.... it only
senses pressure and applies the brakes if the tow vehicle and trailer
push against each other. In that sense, there is a solenoid that
actuates when the back-up lights are energized on the tow vehicle that
prevents hydraulic pressure from the brake cylinder to pass on to the
wheel cylinders and the trailer freewheels backwards. If the tow
vehicle operator doesn't have a way of energizing this solenoid, the
inevitable result is backing the trailer against the brakes.... and
the harder it is to back the trailer and the larger the tow vehicle,
the more likely the damage....


Also, I lost track of how any of this
was caused by water etc. (something about the solenoids?)


The solenoid is electrically actuated from the tow vehicle back-up
lights. Depending on the wiring harness, it may or may not be possible
to disconnect the lights (during immersion) without disconnecting the
wire to the back-up solenoid.... and, thus, forcing the operator to
back-up against the brake pressure.

These surge brakes must be different on bigger trailers. Every surge
brake that I have ever seen on smaller (3,000 to 5,000 lb boats) boat
trailers are free wheeling in reverse specifically for that reason (of
course these were all drum brakes, if that makes any difference).

The Other Dave Hall

Mr Wizzard wrote:
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
k.net...

"seeray28" wrote in message
...
At a buck a bulb and 2 minutes to change, its not worth it.
JMO.

But you have to change them when you are tired from a day of boating, and
crawling around on the ground to do the job. And corrosion in the light
makes the job really bat at times. Buy a set of LED lights. There is a
reason all semi trucks now use LED trailer lights.

So is the idea to replace *all* of the bulbs with LED's?
(including all of the side marker lights), or just the big
ones (that would tend to get the hottest, and shattering) ?

I replaced all of mine. They're maintenence free.

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:18:07 -0400, "Gene Kearns"
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:16:02 -0700, "Mr Wizzard"
wrote:


Can you explain this to me? ...Or explain your thoery on
why not releasing surge brakes caused all this apparatus
to fail ? (I don't know jack about surge brakes), but it
would seem to me that if you tried to back up a trailer
with brakes on that it would be hop, skip, and jumping
all around the place, and generally lettung you know that
the brakes are on.

Basically, you are correct... bottom line is, you have to give a sh*t.
Every time I have observed this problem has been soon after
maintenance or yard related moves. If you have a big enough tow
vehicle, you can muscle around even the largest trailers and that
bends backing plates. strains brake pads, and torques the axles and
springs....

FYI, a surge brake system doesn't know the difference between wishing
to stop or slow down the trailer and backing a trailer up.... it only
senses pressure and applies the brakes if the tow vehicle and trailer
push against each other. In that sense, there is a solenoid that
actuates when the back-up lights are energized on the tow vehicle that
prevents hydraulic pressure from the brake cylinder to pass on to the
wheel cylinders and the trailer freewheels backwards. If the tow
vehicle operator doesn't have a way of energizing this solenoid, the
inevitable result is backing the trailer against the brakes.... and
the harder it is to back the trailer and the larger the tow vehicle,
the more likely the damage....


Also, I lost track of how any of this
was caused by water etc. (something about the solenoids?)


The solenoid is electrically actuated from the tow vehicle back-up
lights. Depending on the wiring harness, it may or may not be possible
to disconnect the lights (during immersion) without disconnecting the
wire to the back-up solenoid.... and, thus, forcing the operator to
back-up against the brake pressure.

These surge brakes must be different on bigger trailers. Every surge
brake that I have ever seen on smaller (3,000 to 5,000 lb boats) boat
trailers are free wheeling in reverse specifically for that reason (of
course these were all drum brakes, if that makes any difference).

The Other Dave Hall

Lots of us have disk brakes. Work much nicer for stopping the rig. First
post said he had to replace rotors. Says they are disk brakes.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:16:08 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:18:07 -0400, "Gene Kearns"
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:16:02 -0700, "Mr Wizzard"
wrote:


Can you explain this to me? ...Or explain your thoery on
why not releasing surge brakes caused all this apparatus
to fail ? (I don't know jack about surge brakes), but it
would seem to me that if you tried to back up a trailer
with brakes on that it would be hop, skip, and jumping
all around the place, and generally lettung you know that
the brakes are on.

Basically, you are correct... bottom line is, you have to give a sh*t.
Every time I have observed this problem has been soon after
maintenance or yard related moves. If you have a big enough tow
vehicle, you can muscle around even the largest trailers and that
bends backing plates. strains brake pads, and torques the axles and
springs....

FYI, a surge brake system doesn't know the difference between wishing
to stop or slow down the trailer and backing a trailer up.... it only
senses pressure and applies the brakes if the tow vehicle and trailer
push against each other. In that sense, there is a solenoid that
actuates when the back-up lights are energized on the tow vehicle that
prevents hydraulic pressure from the brake cylinder to pass on to the
wheel cylinders and the trailer freewheels backwards. If the tow
vehicle operator doesn't have a way of energizing this solenoid, the
inevitable result is backing the trailer against the brakes.... and
the harder it is to back the trailer and the larger the tow vehicle,
the more likely the damage....


Also, I lost track of how any of this
was caused by water etc. (something about the solenoids?)


The solenoid is electrically actuated from the tow vehicle back-up
lights. Depending on the wiring harness, it may or may not be possible
to disconnect the lights (during immersion) without disconnecting the
wire to the back-up solenoid.... and, thus, forcing the operator to
back-up against the brake pressure.

These surge brakes must be different on bigger trailers. Every surge
brake that I have ever seen on smaller (3,000 to 5,000 lb boats) boat
trailers are free wheeling in reverse specifically for that reason (of
course these were all drum brakes, if that makes any difference).

The Other Dave Hall

Lots of us have disk brakes. Work much nicer for stopping the rig. First
post said he had to replace rotors. Says they are disk brakes.


Yes, I realize that he has disk brakes, which is why I asked if that
made a difference given that my experience with surge brakes are all
drums. Off the top of my head I do not see why it would make any
difference in a surge system and see no reason why they would not
simply be free wheeling in reverse instead of some complicated
electrical system to override the braking system whenever the reverse
lights on the tow vehicle are on. At first I thought maybe it would
help if you started to drift or coast backward on a hill, but since
both the trailer and the tow vehicle would be drifting together there
would be no "surge" to cause any braking. So I guess my point and
question is are there surge brakes that, absent an electronic sensor,
will brake in reverse and if so, why? It really isn't a drum vs. disk
question or comment at all (I don't think).

The Other Dave Hall

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:16:08 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:18:07 -0400, "Gene Kearns"
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:16:02 -0700, "Mr Wizzard"
wrote:


Can you explain this to me? ...Or explain your thoery on
why not releasing surge brakes caused all this apparatus
to fail ? (I don't know jack about surge brakes), but it
would seem to me that if you tried to back up a trailer
with brakes on that it would be hop, skip, and jumping
all around the place, and generally lettung you know that
the brakes are on.

Basically, you are correct... bottom line is, you have to give a sh*t.
Every time I have observed this problem has been soon after
maintenance or yard related moves. If you have a big enough tow
vehicle, you can muscle around even the largest trailers and that
bends backing plates. strains brake pads, and torques the axles and
springs....

FYI, a surge brake system doesn't know the difference between wishing
to stop or slow down the trailer and backing a trailer up.... it only
senses pressure and applies the brakes if the tow vehicle and trailer
push against each other. In that sense, there is a solenoid that
actuates when the back-up lights are energized on the tow vehicle that
prevents hydraulic pressure from the brake cylinder to pass on to the
wheel cylinders and the trailer freewheels backwards. If the tow
vehicle operator doesn't have a way of energizing this solenoid, the
inevitable result is backing the trailer against the brakes.... and
the harder it is to back the trailer and the larger the tow vehicle,
the more likely the damage....


Also, I lost track of how any of this
was caused by water etc. (something about the solenoids?)


The solenoid is electrically actuated from the tow vehicle back-up
lights. Depending on the wiring harness, it may or may not be possible
to disconnect the lights (during immersion) without disconnecting the
wire to the back-up solenoid.... and, thus, forcing the operator to
back-up against the brake pressure.

These surge brakes must be different on bigger trailers. Every surge
brake that I have ever seen on smaller (3,000 to 5,000 lb boats) boat
trailers are free wheeling in reverse specifically for that reason (of
course these were all drum brakes, if that makes any difference).

The Other Dave Hall

Lots of us have disk brakes. Work much nicer for stopping the rig. First
post said he had to replace rotors. Says they are disk brakes.


Yes, I realize that he has disk brakes, which is why I asked if that
made a difference given that my experience with surge brakes are all
drums. Off the top of my head I do not see why it would make any
difference in a surge system and see no reason why they would not
simply be free wheeling in reverse instead of some complicated
electrical system to override the braking system whenever the reverse
lights on the tow vehicle are on. At first I thought maybe it would
help if you started to drift or coast backward on a hill, but since
both the trailer and the tow vehicle would be drifting together there
would be no "surge" to cause any braking. So I guess my point and
question is are there surge brakes that, absent an electronic sensor,
will brake in reverse and if so, why? It really isn't a drum vs. disk
question or comment at all (I don't think).

The Other Dave Hall

To get freewheeling in reverse on a show system, you have to have free
backing shoes. Built different than the normal shoe type brakes. On disks,
there is no easy way, other than the backup solenoid to inhibit the brakes
from working when backing up. Or you can lock the coupler from sliding. My
Dico coupler is easy, as you move the safty locking pin to the hole in the
slide of the coupler. My Atwood coupling, had to have a plate installed
that released everytime you stopped.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:05:07 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

Yes, I realize that he has disk brakes, which is why I asked if that
made a difference given that my experience with surge brakes are all
drums. Off the top of my head I do not see why it would make any
difference in a surge system and see no reason why they would not
simply be free wheeling in reverse instead of some complicated
electrical system to override the braking system whenever the reverse
lights on the tow vehicle are on. At first I thought maybe it would
help if you started to drift or coast backward on a hill, but since
both the trailer and the tow vehicle would be drifting together there
would be no "surge" to cause any braking. So I guess my point and
question is are there surge brakes that, absent an electronic sensor,
will brake in reverse and if so, why? It really isn't a drum vs. disk
question or comment at all (I don't think).

The Other Dave Hall

To get freewheeling in reverse on a show system, you have to have free
backing shoes. Built different than the normal shoe type brakes. On disks,
there is no easy way, other than the backup solenoid to inhibit the brakes
from working when backing up. Or you can lock the coupler from sliding. My
Dico coupler is easy, as you move the safty locking pin to the hole in the
slide of the coupler. My Atwood coupling, had to have a plate installed
that released everytime you stopped.


Thanks.

The Other Dave Hall