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Opinions on Sea Ray 215
Hi,
I am about to purchase a Sea Ray 215 EC 1997 (I am in the UK) Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/b2m2f I am interested to know if anyone has any experience with one of these and what you thought of it. Thanks zeebop |
zeebop wrote in
: Hi, I am about to purchase a Sea Ray 215 EC 1997 (I am in the UK) Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/b2m2f I am interested to know if anyone has any experience with one of these and what you thought of it. Thanks zeebop Piece of crap. See for yourself what's inside a Sea Ray boat: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm It's made of "putty"??.... I had the jetboat. Light came through the hull. Seats mildewed because they were made of COTTON-BACKED plastic with cheap furniture foam by some furniture company in Tennesee. The side panel mildewed because the cotton- backed plastic was over a cotton pad all stapled to a piece of packing crate wood. It rotted out twice in 3 years. There was no way to get to the fuel tank INLET or INLET VENT because they were stuffed into the hull before the top was put on with no access hatch. You couldn't even check to see if the fuel tank inlet hoses had a clamp on them because you couldn't see it unless you tore the boat apart. The polyethelene (milk bottle plastic) tank was kept in place with two 1" long plastic angle brackets screwed into the stringer with one sheet metal screw. The two little brackets supported a 25 gallon gas tank! NOT! They were eating into the polyethelene, which is very soft, so I had to build some proper brackets to stop it. The Mercury Sport Jet, considered by CG as an inboard engine, has a 5/16" hose barb for the fuel hose. Sea Ray attached a 3/8" fuel hose because that's what the gas tank fitting had on it. They used two hose clamps to try to squeeze the hose over the smaller barb to keep it from leaking. Didn't work. The fuel hose from the tank to the engine, a 3/8" marine gas line, was supported and held to the engine compartment bulkhead with the same 3" diameter clamps used for the big inlet hose. This meant when the 3/8" hose fell off the 5/16" barb into the bilge, it pulled the hose through these huge clamps far enough the suction of the siphon effect overcame the anti-siphon valve, if it had one, and filled the enclosed up hull with about 6" of GASOLINE! The fumes were strong enough to roughly run the engine sucking its air supply from in the compartment. Why it didn't explode is simply a miracle. I won't admit to where I pumped 10 gallons of gasoline way up a river in the swamp. I was not amused. Sea Ray sent me a lifetime supply of 5/16" gas hose, proving they actually knew what 5/16" hose looked like. I still have a whole roll if you need it. I solved the problem with a proper fuel filter/water separator with 3/8" inlet and 5/16" outlet fittings the damned company should have used in the first place if they hadn't been so damned greedy. Sea Ray of Charleston, a bigshot marine dealer...... I didn't buy my boat from my local dealer because I bought it in Birmingham, Alabama for $3500 less money from a dealer there. OK, so I'm a bad boy getting it for wholesale from an overstocked dealer. I had the boat serviced a couple of times at the local dealer when someone noticed the dealer sticker from Dead Ahead Marine on the back of the boat. I was informed my Sea Ray boat was no longer welcome at my Sea Ray dealer for warranty service as the local dealer didn't sell this boat. I called Sea Ray and was told that was correct. The Sea Ray dealer didn't have to service my Sea Ray boat if he didn't sell it. Isn't that nice?! How supportive of the company.... Nope...no thanks. Sea Ray (or Brunswick's other boat companies) don't have to worry about selling me another boat. I'll pass. Just thought you should know..... England sure has some beautifully made boats. Why buy a piece of American made crap?? -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. |
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... zeebop wrote in : Hi, I am about to purchase a Sea Ray 215 EC 1997 (I am in the UK) Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/b2m2f I am interested to know if anyone has any experience with one of these and what you thought of it. Thanks zeebop Piece of crap. See for yourself what's inside a Sea Ray boat: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm It's made of "putty"??.... I had the jetboat. Light came through the hull. Seats mildewed because they were made of COTTON-BACKED plastic with cheap furniture foam by some furniture company in Tennesee. The side panel mildewed because the cotton- backed plastic was over a cotton pad all stapled to a piece of packing crate wood. It rotted out twice in 3 years. There was no way to get to the fuel tank INLET or INLET VENT because they were stuffed into the hull before the top was put on with no access hatch. You couldn't even check to see if the fuel tank inlet hoses had a clamp on them because you couldn't see it unless you tore the boat apart. The polyethelene (milk bottle plastic) tank was kept in place with two 1" long plastic angle brackets screwed into the stringer with one sheet metal screw. The two little brackets supported a 25 gallon gas tank! NOT! They were eating into the polyethelene, which is very soft, so I had to build some proper brackets to stop it. The Mercury Sport Jet, considered by CG as an inboard engine, has a 5/16" hose barb for the fuel hose. Sea Ray attached a 3/8" fuel hose because that's what the gas tank fitting had on it. They used two hose clamps to try to squeeze the hose over the smaller barb to keep it from leaking. Didn't work. The fuel hose from the tank to the engine, a 3/8" marine gas line, was supported and held to the engine compartment bulkhead with the same 3" diameter clamps used for the big inlet hose. This meant when the 3/8" hose fell off the 5/16" barb into the bilge, it pulled the hose through these huge clamps far enough the suction of the siphon effect overcame the anti-siphon valve, if it had one, and filled the enclosed up hull with about 6" of GASOLINE! The fumes were strong enough to roughly run the engine sucking its air supply from in the compartment. Why it didn't explode is simply a miracle. I won't admit to where I pumped 10 gallons of gasoline way up a river in the swamp. I was not amused. Sea Ray sent me a lifetime supply of 5/16" gas hose, proving they actually knew what 5/16" hose looked like. I still have a whole roll if you need it. I solved the problem with a proper fuel filter/water separator with 3/8" inlet and 5/16" outlet fittings the damned company should have used in the first place if they hadn't been so damned greedy. Sea Ray of Charleston, a bigshot marine dealer...... I didn't buy my boat from my local dealer because I bought it in Birmingham, Alabama for $3500 less money from a dealer there. OK, so I'm a bad boy getting it for wholesale from an overstocked dealer. I had the boat serviced a couple of times at the local dealer when someone noticed the dealer sticker from Dead Ahead Marine on the back of the boat. I was informed my Sea Ray boat was no longer welcome at my Sea Ray dealer for warranty service as the local dealer didn't sell this boat. I called Sea Ray and was told that was correct. The Sea Ray dealer didn't have to service my Sea Ray boat if he didn't sell it. Isn't that nice?! How supportive of the company.... Nope...no thanks. Sea Ray (or Brunswick's other boat companies) don't have to worry about selling me another boat. I'll pass. Just thought you should know..... England sure has some beautifully made boats. Why buy a piece of American made crap?? -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. SeaRay? Are we talking abot the same SeaRay? My dad has had two SeaRays. A 19.5 enclosed front and 24 ft enclosed front with fly bridge. Both are built like tanks. Incredible seaworthiness. Handled 6-10 ft (2-3 meter) short period waves on Lake Powell with no flex, and no water over the bow on more than one occassion. Never had any problems with the hulls. Both are older boats, with I/Os. One is power by a V-8 Ford 302 and the other is power by twin 4 cylinder Chevrolets. We have had to do engine maintenance on them, and the carb on the Ford needs to be dissassembled and reassembled every other year for cleaning, but the boats are rock solid. You are talking about the SeaRays made in Phoenix, Az aren't you? -- Bob La Londe http://www.YumaBassMan.com |
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 12:24:56 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote: "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... zeebop wrote in : Hi, I am about to purchase a Sea Ray 215 EC 1997 (I am in the UK) Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/b2m2f I am interested to know if anyone has any experience with one of these and what you thought of it. Thanks zeebop Piece of crap. See for yourself what's inside a Sea Ray boat: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm It's made of "putty"??.... I had the jetboat. Light came through the hull. Seats mildewed because they were made of COTTON-BACKED plastic with cheap furniture foam by some furniture company in Tennesee. The side panel mildewed because the cotton- backed plastic was over a cotton pad all stapled to a piece of packing crate wood. It rotted out twice in 3 years. There was no way to get to the fuel tank INLET or INLET VENT because they were stuffed into the hull before the top was put on with no access hatch. You couldn't even check to see if the fuel tank inlet hoses had a clamp on them because you couldn't see it unless you tore the boat apart. The polyethelene (milk bottle plastic) tank was kept in place with two 1" long plastic angle brackets screwed into the stringer with one sheet metal screw. The two little brackets supported a 25 gallon gas tank! NOT! They were eating into the polyethelene, which is very soft, so I had to build some proper brackets to stop it. The Mercury Sport Jet, considered by CG as an inboard engine, has a 5/16" hose barb for the fuel hose. Sea Ray attached a 3/8" fuel hose because that's what the gas tank fitting had on it. They used two hose clamps to try to squeeze the hose over the smaller barb to keep it from leaking. Didn't work. The fuel hose from the tank to the engine, a 3/8" marine gas line, was supported and held to the engine compartment bulkhead with the same 3" diameter clamps used for the big inlet hose. This meant when the 3/8" hose fell off the 5/16" barb into the bilge, it pulled the hose through these huge clamps far enough the suction of the siphon effect overcame the anti-siphon valve, if it had one, and filled the enclosed up hull with about 6" of GASOLINE! The fumes were strong enough to roughly run the engine sucking its air supply from in the compartment. Why it didn't explode is simply a miracle. I won't admit to where I pumped 10 gallons of gasoline way up a river in the swamp. I was not amused. Sea Ray sent me a lifetime supply of 5/16" gas hose, proving they actually knew what 5/16" hose looked like. I still have a whole roll if you need it. I solved the problem with a proper fuel filter/water separator with 3/8" inlet and 5/16" outlet fittings the damned company should have used in the first place if they hadn't been so damned greedy. Sea Ray of Charleston, a bigshot marine dealer...... I didn't buy my boat from my local dealer because I bought it in Birmingham, Alabama for $3500 less money from a dealer there. OK, so I'm a bad boy getting it for wholesale from an overstocked dealer. I had the boat serviced a couple of times at the local dealer when someone noticed the dealer sticker from Dead Ahead Marine on the back of the boat. I was informed my Sea Ray boat was no longer welcome at my Sea Ray dealer for warranty service as the local dealer didn't sell this boat. I called Sea Ray and was told that was correct. The Sea Ray dealer didn't have to service my Sea Ray boat if he didn't sell it. Isn't that nice?! How supportive of the company.... Nope...no thanks. Sea Ray (or Brunswick's other boat companies) don't have to worry about selling me another boat. I'll pass. Just thought you should know..... England sure has some beautifully made boats. Why buy a piece of American made crap?? -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. SeaRay? Are we talking abot the same SeaRay? My dad has had two SeaRays. A 19.5 enclosed front and 24 ft enclosed front with fly bridge. Both are built like tanks. Incredible seaworthiness. Handled 6-10 ft (2-3 meter) short period waves on Lake Powell with no flex, and no water over the bow on more than one occassion. Never had any problems with the hulls. Both are older boats, with I/Os. One is power by a V-8 Ford 302 and the other is power by twin 4 cylinder Chevrolets. We have had to do engine maintenance on them, and the carb on the Ford needs to be dissassembled and reassembled every other year for cleaning, but the boats are rock solid. You are talking about the SeaRays made in Phoenix, Az aren't you? Well, it's Mr. Mete Larry - probably the only annoying person I've ever run into. He's not afraid to tell you how stupid you are. |
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 14:56:21 -0400, Larry W4CSC
wrote: You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. In Larry's case, we can only hope that could possibly come true. |
Bob,
SeaRay was bought by Brunswick around 1989. They make a good bowling ball I'm told. :-) Paul Bob La Londe wrote: "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... zeebop wrote in m: Hi, I am about to purchase a Sea Ray 215 EC 1997 (I am in the UK) Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/b2m2f I am interested to know if anyone has any experience with one of these and what you thought of it. Thanks zeebop Piece of crap. See for yourself what's inside a Sea Ray boat: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm It's made of "putty"??.... I had the jetboat. Light came through the hull. Seats mildewed because they were made of COTTON-BACKED plastic with cheap furniture foam by some furniture company in Tennesee. The side panel mildewed because the cotton- backed plastic was over a cotton pad all stapled to a piece of packing crate wood. It rotted out twice in 3 years. There was no way to get to the fuel tank INLET or INLET VENT because they were stuffed into the hull before the top was put on with no access hatch. You couldn't even check to see if the fuel tank inlet hoses had a clamp on them because you couldn't see it unless you tore the boat apart. The polyethelene (milk bottle plastic) tank was kept in place with two 1" long plastic angle brackets screwed into the stringer with one sheet metal screw. The two little brackets supported a 25 gallon gas tank! NOT! They were eating into the polyethelene, which is very soft, so I had to build some proper brackets to stop it. The Mercury Sport Jet, considered by CG as an inboard engine, has a 5/16" hose barb for the fuel hose. Sea Ray attached a 3/8" fuel hose because that's what the gas tank fitting had on it. They used two hose clamps to try to squeeze the hose over the smaller barb to keep it from leaking. Didn't work. The fuel hose from the tank to the engine, a 3/8" marine gas line, was supported and held to the engine compartment bulkhead with the same 3" diameter clamps used for the big inlet hose. This meant when the 3/8" hose fell off the 5/16" barb into the bilge, it pulled the hose through these huge clamps far enough the suction of the siphon effect overcame the anti-siphon valve, if it had one, and filled the enclosed up hull with about 6" of GASOLINE! The fumes were strong enough to roughly run the engine sucking its air supply from in the compartment. Why it didn't explode is simply a miracle. I won't admit to where I pumped 10 gallons of gasoline way up a river in the swamp. I was not amused. Sea Ray sent me a lifetime supply of 5/16" gas hose, proving they actually knew what 5/16" hose looked like. I still have a whole roll if you need it. I solved the problem with a proper fuel filter/water separator with 3/8" inlet and 5/16" outlet fittings the damned company should have used in the first place if they hadn't been so damned greedy. Sea Ray of Charleston, a bigshot marine dealer...... I didn't buy my boat from my local dealer because I bought it in Birmingham, Alabama for $3500 less money from a dealer there. OK, so I'm a bad boy getting it for wholesale from an overstocked dealer. I had the boat serviced a couple of times at the local dealer when someone noticed the dealer sticker from Dead Ahead Marine on the back of the boat. I was informed my Sea Ray boat was no longer welcome at my Sea Ray dealer for warranty service as the local dealer didn't sell this boat. I called Sea Ray and was told that was correct. The Sea Ray dealer didn't have to service my Sea Ray boat if he didn't sell it. Isn't that nice?! How supportive of the company.... Nope...no thanks. Sea Ray (or Brunswick's other boat companies) don't have to worry about selling me another boat. I'll pass. Just thought you should know..... England sure has some beautifully made boats. Why buy a piece of American made crap?? -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. SeaRay? Are we talking abot the same SeaRay? My dad has had two SeaRays. A 19.5 enclosed front and 24 ft enclosed front with fly bridge. Both are built like tanks. Incredible seaworthiness. Handled 6-10 ft (2-3 meter) short period waves on Lake Powell with no flex, and no water over the bow on more than one occassion. Never had any problems with the hulls. Both are older boats, with I/Os. One is power by a V-8 Ford 302 and the other is power by twin 4 cylinder Chevrolets. We have had to do engine maintenance on them, and the carb on the Ford needs to be dissassembled and reassembled every other year for cleaning, but the boats are rock solid. You are talking about the SeaRays made in Phoenix, Az aren't you? |
Larry W4SC wrote:
Piece of crap. See for yourself what's inside a Sea Ray boat: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fib=ADerglass_Boats.htm It's made of "putty"??.... *************************** If you're going to slam a brand, please try to use information that is up to date. That chunk of Sea Ray hull is probably at least 15 years old, and does not represent the way the boats are currently built. Using that as an example is like telling people to stay away from Ford Motor Company vehicles because the Pinto isn't much of a car. Here's a factual look at the modern manufacturing process used by Sea Ray, rather than one basher quoting another and using a 15-year old hull as evidence. http://www.netcomposites.com/downloads/RTMaut04.pdf Are you going to disclose to the group that your "Sea Ray boat" was a glorified jet ski, offered for only a year or two, (and quite possibly built by some outside company and rebadged as a Sea Ray), or not? While you're at it, are you willing to admit that the shocking photo on David Pascoe's site actually represents a failed repair, and not OEM construction? Every time somebody brings up that David Pascoe link to slam Sea Ray, they fail to point out that there are hull chunks from a wide variety of very "high end" boats. Very few runabout boats are built with a cored hull these days. Larger cruisers often use Divynicell or other cores (hardly putty) but normally only above the waterline. |
Bob,
SeaRay was bought by Brunswick around 1989. They make a good bowling ball I'm told. :-) Paul ********* .........as well as some highly respected boating trademarks. Examples like Hatteras and Boston Whaler come quickly to mind. |
"Bob La Londe" wrote in
: older boats Before Brunswick bought the company and turned them into Bayliners.... -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. |
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"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... wrote in oups.com: While you're at it, are you willing to admit that the shocking photo on David Pascoe's site actually represents a failed repair, and not OEM construction? Notice how that website is STILL, after all these years, ONLINE? If it were false, Brunswick's lawyer clan would be on David Pascoe so fast his hat would have sailed off. They haven't and it's STILL ONLINE! Being in denial the Sea Ray name isn't the Sea Ray of old isn't going to change the slipshod workmanship and lousy, cheap designs. Yacht standards, my ass. Sue me. -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. Chuck just did a fluff review of a SeaRay and found absolutely no problems with it. His final impression was that you need one to "look good and go fast", or something to that effect. He has to defend them.......SeaRay paid him to do so. |
Notice how that website is STILL, after all these years, ONLINE? If it
were false, Brunswick's lawyer clan would be on David Pascoe so fast his hat would have sailed off. They haven't and it's STILL ONLINE! ******** That's funny. You're still on line, spreading the Pascoe lie, and Brunswick hasn't sued your hat off. Why is that? Could it be that Brunswick has better things to do than argue with every kook that comes along? If you believe everything simply because its online, you are one confused guy. Do you have any opinion about the material you viewed (assuming you did) on the link I provided, (showing exactly how the hull in question is built) or will you continue to spread the lie that Sea Ray hulls are built up with "putty"? It's too bad your SeaDoo or whatever didn't work out better for you. It's disingenuous to report you experience as typical of a Sea Ray "boat", and you know (or should know if you're going to presume to render an informed opinion) that the hull on the Pascoe site is not representative of current production- yet you respond to a guy asking about a brand new Sea Ray with some dubious information about a long defunct hull standard with "see how they're made......". I've got no problem with somebody who knows their butt from first base expressing a negative opinion about a boat. The operative standard should be, "Brand X boats are crap...BECAUSE (insert factual, current, technical reason here)." What will we hear next? "All Sea Ray owners wear too many gold chains and have small sexual organs!"? (actual quote from a recent "classic" post from a non-boater in this NG) Tell us, Larry, when you owned your Sea Ray, did you wear a lot of gold chains? Do you consider yourself inadequately endowed? Assuming one or both answers are "no", it goes to show that people who don't know kkkrap about boats, or at least a specific boat, can post all kinds of stuff on the internet without having their hats sued off. |
JimH wrote:
Chuck just did a fluff review of a SeaRay and found absolutely no problems with it. His final impression was that you need one to "look good and go fast", or something to that effect. ************************* I've got no problem with somebody who knows their butt from first base expressing a negative opinion about a boat. The operative standard should be, "Brand X boats are crap...BECAUSE (insert factual, current, technical reason here)." What will we hear next? "All Sea Ray owners wear too many gold chains and have small sexual organs!"? (actual quote from a recent "classic" post from a non-boater in this NG) You might ask Larry if he wore a lot of gold chains and needed a double dose of Viagra while he owned his Sea Ray branded glorified jet ski. Wouldn't it be fun to be right about something for a change? As far as this ridiculous claim of yours goes, "He has to defend them.......Sea Ray paid him to do so." I am sure you know that's a lie. I'm also sure you do not care. Why let truth get in the way of a good old-fashioned JimH patented personal attack? My "defense" of Sea Ray involved nothing more than exposing Larry's dubious link to a site with long-ago outdated information about Sea Ray hull construction as the bogus advice it was. It's one thing to say, "I don't like that brand," but it's another to point to some badly outdated information and maliciously insist that it represents current technology. Would it be better to let the lie stand unchallenged? Isn't there some group where you're actually capable of participating without tearing everybody and everything down all the time? That knock, knock, knock, crap is for people who don't have the ability to discuss the subject matter and so turn instead to bithcing about personalities. What a shame. |
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:13:53 -0400, "*JimH*" wrote:
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... wrote in oups.com: While you're at it, are you willing to admit that the shocking photo on David Pascoe's site actually represents a failed repair, and not OEM construction? Notice how that website is STILL, after all these years, ONLINE? If it were false, Brunswick's lawyer clan would be on David Pascoe so fast his hat would have sailed off. They haven't and it's STILL ONLINE! Being in denial the Sea Ray name isn't the Sea Ray of old isn't going to change the slipshod workmanship and lousy, cheap designs. Yacht standards, my ass. Sue me. -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. Chuck just did a fluff review of a SeaRay and found absolutely no problems with it. His final impression was that you need one to "look good and go fast", or something to that effect. He has to defend them.......SeaRay paid him to do so. First, Jim, I can't believe you're crossposting this crap. Second, yeah, Chuck gets paid by his publisher who gets some advertising dollars from Sea Ray, so indirectly your statement has a *very little* basis in fact. Your assertion that Chuck shouldn't post his fluff piece here because newbies might see it, also has *very little* basis in fact. In all your time here, have you *ever* heard anyone say, "I bought my boat 'cause Chuck said it was nice and it's a piece of ****?" Me neither. I would hope that one who has earned enough money to buy a boat has more sense than to buy one based on one article he's read. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"John H" wrote in message ... On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:13:53 -0400, "*JimH*" wrote: "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... wrote in oups.com: While you're at it, are you willing to admit that the shocking photo on David Pascoe's site actually represents a failed repair, and not OEM construction? Notice how that website is STILL, after all these years, ONLINE? If it were false, Brunswick's lawyer clan would be on David Pascoe so fast his hat would have sailed off. They haven't and it's STILL ONLINE! Being in denial the Sea Ray name isn't the Sea Ray of old isn't going to change the slipshod workmanship and lousy, cheap designs. Yacht standards, my ass. Sue me. -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. Chuck just did a fluff review of a SeaRay and found absolutely no problems with it. His final impression was that you need one to "look good and go fast", or something to that effect. He has to defend them.......SeaRay paid him to do so. First, Jim, I can't believe you're crossposting this crap. Second, yeah, Chuck gets paid by his publisher who gets some advertising dollars from Sea Ray, so indirectly your statement has a *very little* basis in fact. Your assertion that Chuck shouldn't post his fluff piece here because newbies might see it, also has *very little* basis in fact. In all your time here, have you *ever* heard anyone say, "I bought my boat 'cause Chuck said it was nice and it's a piece of ****?" Me neither. I would hope that one who has earned enough money to buy a boat has more sense than to buy one based on one article he's read. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." I stand by my comments John, including the fact that fluff reviews do potential buyers a disservice. "It's all about looking good and going fast" to some *boaters*. |
wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: Chuck just did a fluff review of a SeaRay and found absolutely no problems with it. His final impression was that you need one to "look good and go fast", or something to that effect. ************************* I've got no problem with somebody who knows their butt from first base expressing a negative opinion about a boat. The operative standard should be, "Brand X boats are crap...BECAUSE (insert factual, current, technical reason here)." What will we hear next? "All Sea Ray owners wear too many gold chains and have small sexual organs!"? (actual quote from a recent "classic" post from a non-boater in this NG) SeaRay owners wearing too many gold chains??? Imho, after they make the down payment for the boat, they have to give them all up in payment for the their lobotomy. Just observing after cruising in Florida waters. I don't know if it is just arrogance or too much Budweiser, but they tend to be the most inconsiderate folks on the water. Leanne |
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... zeebop wrote in : Hi, I am about to purchase a Sea Ray 215 EC 1997 (I am in the UK) Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/b2m2f I am interested to know if anyone has any experience with one of these and what you thought of it. Thanks zeebop Piece of crap. See for yourself what's inside a Sea Ray boat: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm It's made of "putty"??.... I had the jetboat. Light came through the hull. Seats mildewed because they were made of COTTON-BACKED plastic with cheap furniture foam by some furniture company in Tennesee. The side panel mildewed because the cotton- backed plastic was over a cotton pad all stapled to a piece of packing crate wood. It rotted out twice in 3 years. There was no way to get to the fuel tank INLET or INLET VENT because they were stuffed into the hull before the top was put on with no access hatch. You couldn't even check to see if the fuel tank inlet hoses had a clamp on them because you couldn't see it unless you tore the boat apart. The polyethelene (milk bottle plastic) tank was kept in place with two 1" long plastic angle brackets screwed into the stringer with one sheet metal screw. The two little brackets supported a 25 gallon gas tank! NOT! They were eating into the polyethelene, which is very soft, so I had to build some proper brackets to stop it. The Mercury Sport Jet, considered by CG as an inboard engine, has a 5/16" hose barb for the fuel hose. Sea Ray attached a 3/8" fuel hose because that's what the gas tank fitting had on it. They used two hose clamps to try to squeeze the hose over the smaller barb to keep it from leaking. Didn't work. The fuel hose from the tank to the engine, a 3/8" marine gas line, was supported and held to the engine compartment bulkhead with the same 3" diameter clamps used for the big inlet hose. This meant when the 3/8" hose fell off the 5/16" barb into the bilge, it pulled the hose through these huge clamps far enough the suction of the siphon effect overcame the anti-siphon valve, if it had one, and filled the enclosed up hull with about 6" of GASOLINE! The fumes were strong enough to roughly run the engine sucking its air supply from in the compartment. Why it didn't explode is simply a miracle. I won't admit to where I pumped 10 gallons of gasoline way up a river in the swamp. I was not amused. Sea Ray sent me a lifetime supply of 5/16" gas hose, proving they actually knew what 5/16" hose looked like. I still have a whole roll if you need it. I solved the problem with a proper fuel filter/water separator with 3/8" inlet and 5/16" outlet fittings the damned company should have used in the first place if they hadn't been so damned greedy. Sea Ray of Charleston, a bigshot marine dealer...... I didn't buy my boat from my local dealer because I bought it in Birmingham, Alabama for $3500 less money from a dealer there. OK, so I'm a bad boy getting it for wholesale from an overstocked dealer. I had the boat serviced a couple of times at the local dealer when someone noticed the dealer sticker from Dead Ahead Marine on the back of the boat. I was informed my Sea Ray boat was no longer welcome at my Sea Ray dealer for warranty service as the local dealer didn't sell this boat. I called Sea Ray and was told that was correct. The Sea Ray dealer didn't have to service my Sea Ray boat if he didn't sell it. Isn't that nice?! How supportive of the company.... Nope...no thanks. Sea Ray (or Brunswick's other boat companies) don't have to worry about selling me another boat. I'll pass. Just thought you should know..... England sure has some beautifully made boats. Why buy a piece of American made crap?? -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. Well that sucks. I am looking to buy a new boat in September and SeaRay was on the top of my list. Maxum being second. Thanks, Duke |
Well that sucks. I am looking to buy a new boat in September and
SeaRay was on the top of my list. Maxum being second. Thanks, Duke ********** Avoid buying a late 80's, early 90's Sea Ray, or a discontinued jet-ski model like Larry owned, and it won't suck - at least not in the same way. :-) |
This didn't appear to post the first time, sorry if it's a repeat:
Gene Kearns wrote: Your link seems to describe a European robotic application of Pascoe's complaints... therefore, I suspect his position is still valid.... though the build-up is more precise. In fact, very little is devoted to marine application. ************* Nonsense. First, Pasoce's inflammatory piece is titled "Fiberglass?" Boats, or something similar, and his theme bash throughout is that many manufacturers sell boats that are primarily some weird coring material beneath a very thin layer of fiberglass and the gel coat. There is a chance you do not understand the nature of "Pascoe's complaint," but the RIMFIRE technology used by Sea Ray to build these small runabouts does remotely approach the process Pascoe describes. As far as the "European application"...No, that's a European article about how the Sea Ray process is being exported from the US to Europe and it's written from the perspective of an FRP manufacturer. Sea Ray won some sort of industry award for technical innovation with this RIMFIRE process. I thought this might be more convincing than something that reads "Sea Ray says........" If you read the article with an open mind, you will see how the chopped strand hull is reinforced at critical points with engineered *fabrics*, which are biaxial and triaxial glass cloth, kevlar, and other materials in the modern layup. Show of hands: how many people in the NG have ever been in a Brunswick layup facility? Funny, staring intensely at the monitor I see almost no hands except my own. (Once again, the hand in Ohio is disqualified due to finger position). The description in the European article which notes a chopped hull with glass mat reinforcements is spot on. Pascoe's alleged practices are nowhere to be seen. The boats are not built up with "putty" (as his photo of the failed, "bondo" repair job is supposed to imply). If a guy doesn't like Sea Ray, that's his right. But to post stuff that's ridiculously out of date in response to an inquiry about a new boat along with the comment "See how they're made" is done either because the poster doesn't know any better or because the poster can't find anything (true or untrue) that appears to be more damaging. In either case, when the "advice" is bogus it needs to be called for what it is- sheer bs hate mail and nothing more. **************** Gene Kearns also wrote: My personal experience with Brunswick is that they trash (cheapen) everything that they touch. *********** Remember, the OP was asking for advice about new boats in the year 2005. Impressions formed in the mid-90's or before may no longer be relevant. In the last several years, Bayliner quality control has improved substantially, the larger Bayliner models supplanted with a line of boats easily built to the prevailing industry standards (Meridian), and some of the reasons that one could bash Brunswick in the past have just simply disappeared. I don't put much stock in the JD Power awards, but those who find them very important barometers of product quality would want to note that in a category just above runabouts, Sea Ray was either the top finisher or rated extremely highly in the latest release. You don't suppose Pascoe's wierd chunk of "Sea Ray" putty hull came off of Larry's old jetski, do you? We're halfway through the 00's, and some folks seem stuck in the late 80's, early 90's. :-) |
JimH wrote:
I stand by my comments John, including the fact that fluff reviews do potential buyers a disservice. "It's all about looking good and going fast" to some *boaters*. ************** There's a bright fella. Sticks by his lie that I'm "paid by Sea Ray to defend Sea Ray boats" when even his normally close allies point out the absurdity. And yeah, JimH, for a lot of boaters it is very much about going fast and looking good. You think that's "beneath" your own non-use, as a non-owner, or something? My boat will do 10kts (when pressed hard) but that doesn't mean I'm unable to appreciate the thrill of jumping into a small runabout and zipping up and down the lake on a hot, sunny day. Ask a waterskier why they engage in the sport and "going fast and having fun" will be up near the top of the list. Some of them will fantasize that they look good in the process, and sure enough- some of them acutally do. You have to be the snobbiest non-boater in the crowd. Last week you diss'd all Sea Ray owners with a comment that they all had large inventories of gold chains and small manhoods. This week you imply that owing a sporty looking boat for the sheer joy of looking good, going fast, and having fun is somehow beneath the definition of a true "boater". What in the Sam H would qualify a guy who doesn't even own a boat to cast dispersion on the motivations of people who do? This thread is supposed to be about Sea Ray boats. What prompted your personal attack? Go ahead and launch your last, limp "zinger" (talk about inadequately endowed), and smirk away thinking you had the "last word". I won't help you screw up this thread any worse by responding to more of your classic JimH personality attack in this particular thread. |
Neither David Pascoe's web site or the fluff pieces written by you and other
boat magazine accurately represent the quality of SeaRay. At least David Pascoe's web site accurately represents the boat he surveyed. The fluff pieces written by you and others are PR pieces written for the benefit of the builder, the last person they are written for is the prospective boat buyer. Since the boat buyer is not paying you for your fluff piece they are not important. wrote in message oups.com... Larry W4SC wrote: Piece of crap. See for yourself what's inside a Sea Ray boat: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm It's made of "putty"??.... *************************** If you're going to slam a brand, please try to use information that is up to date. That chunk of Sea Ray hull is probably at least 15 years old, and does not represent the way the boats are currently built. Using that as an example is like telling people to stay away from Ford Motor Company vehicles because the Pinto isn't much of a car. Here's a factual look at the modern manufacturing process used by Sea Ray, rather than one basher quoting another and using a 15-year old hull as evidence. http://www.netcomposites.com/downloads/RTMaut04.pdf Are you going to disclose to the group that your "Sea Ray boat" was a glorified jet ski, offered for only a year or two, (and quite possibly built by some outside company and rebadged as a Sea Ray), or not? While you're at it, are you willing to admit that the shocking photo on David Pascoe's site actually represents a failed repair, and not OEM construction? Every time somebody brings up that David Pascoe link to slam Sea Ray, they fail to point out that there are hull chunks from a wide variety of very "high end" boats. Very few runabout boats are built with a cored hull these days. Larger cruisers often use Divynicell or other cores (hardly putty) but normally only above the waterline. |
wrote in message oups.com... As far as this ridiculous claim of yours goes, "He has to defend them.......Sea Ray paid him to do so." I am sure you know that's a lie. I'm also sure you do not care. Why let truth get in the way of a good old-fashioned JimH patented personal attack? Why is this not a factual statement? Does SeaRay run ads in your magazine? Does your magazine live and die by the ad revenue generated by boat builders and suppliers? Does the retail price of your magazine cover a tiny faction of the cost to produce your magazine? Does your editor pay you to write fluff pieces "selling the sizzle" of boats and boating? If you insisted on writing unbiased reviews of the boats you discuss, would any of the articles ever get published and would you earn any money? |
Neither David Pascoe's web site or the fluff pieces written by you and
other boat magazine accurately represent the quality of SeaRay. At least David Pascoe's web site accurately represents the boat he surveyed. The fluff pieces written by you and others are PR pieces written for the benefit of the builder, the last person they are written for is the prospective boat buyer. Since the boat buyer is not paying you for your fluff piece they are not important. *************** ????????? I never submitted anything I ever wrote as a rebuttal to Larry's insinuation that Sea Ray boats are made from "putty". Do you have a comment on the actual evidence I submitted, (the website showing photos of a Sea Ray layup and a description of the mfg process), or is that also suspect because it appeared in print? And while you're at it, oh wise one, please don't leave us dangling: If you're in a position to dispute Pascoe's site as well as the European article about Sea Ray layup schedules- please do so. Speak right up, no need to keep it a secret. Here's your opportunity to walk the walk, not just talk the talk:_______________ By the way, Pascoe does not claim that his items are "sureys". He admits they are very negatively oriented opinion pieces. He has stated that it is his mission to attemprt to "balance" any and all positive opinion pieces. Try reading the introduction to his site sometime. |
wrote in message oups.com... Neither David Pascoe's web site or the fluff pieces written by you and other boat magazine accurately represent the quality of SeaRay. At least David Pascoe's web site accurately represents the boat he surveyed. The fluff pieces written by you and others are PR pieces written for the benefit of the builder, the last person they are written for is the prospective boat buyer. Since the boat buyer is not paying you for your fluff piece they are not important. *************** ????????? I never submitted anything I ever wrote as a rebuttal to Larry's insinuation that Sea Ray boats are made from "putty". Do you have a comment on the actual evidence I submitted, (the website showing photos of a Sea Ray layup and a description of the mfg process), or is that also suspect because it appeared in print? And while you're at it, oh wise one, please don't leave us dangling: If you're in a position to dispute Pascoe's site as well as the European article about Sea Ray layup schedules- please do so. Speak right up, no need to keep it a secret. Here's your opportunity to walk the walk, not just talk the talk:_______________ By the way, Pascoe does not claim that his items are "sureys". He admits they are very negatively oriented opinion pieces. He has stated that it is his mission to attemprt to "balance" any and all positive opinion pieces. Try reading the introduction to his site sometime. |
wrote in message
oups.com... JimH wrote: I stand by my comments John, including the fact that fluff reviews do potential buyers a disservice. "It's all about looking good and going fast" to some *boaters*. ************** There's a bright fella. Sticks by his lie that I'm "paid by Sea Ray to defend Sea Ray boats" when even his normally close allies point out the absurdity. And yeah, JimH, for a lot of boaters it is very much about going fast and looking good. LOL. That would explain us bass boat owners. 70.9 MPH Bass Cat under ideal conditions with a full (tournament) load. 72 plus lightly loaded and out of control. On the other hand my GPS indicates an average speed of les than 1 MPH when actually fishing. LOL. I'ld have to say in my personal experience those people who can afford and choose to buy a nice boat are either about looking good and going fast or looking good and being comfortable. In my case I bought my Bass Cat after reading hundreds of articles and listening to many other people with hands on personal expereince of different boats, and having owned three used beater bass boats so I could compare features and decide what I truly wanted out of a Bass Boat. In the case of my dad's two Searays. They are older models. Pre-Brunswick so I guess my experience with them does not apply. I can say those old Phoenix made Searays are rock solid rough water handlers. Stable and safe at displacement speeds and pretty darned impressive when properly handled at planing speeds. No flex and accurate tracking in the worst conditions we have run them in. No, we have not run them offshore, but I think people who call them an OK lake boat are really doing them a disservice. We have run ahead of (and a few times trailing) storm driven waves in huge lakes with these and they kept us safe and drive. Anybody who has run Lake Mead or Lake Powel in the afternoon on a windy day will understand the type of conditions I am talking about. So, I guess I have no relevant opinion on modern Searay boats, but the odler ones were incredible. At the time my dad bought his Searays they had a top notch reputation in the industry. He also has an early 90s 22' Bayliner walk around cuddy which had a transom rot out in just a couple years. (it was kept on a trailer, covered and dry except for a few weeks each year. They also sold it way under powered with a single Force 150. He had the transom rebuilt by an independent shop, and set it up with twin 150s. It is now a decent boat. If Searay in the early 90s was truly similar in quality and construction.to the Bayliner then I would have to agree with their detractors, and any current Seray would be subject to severe scrutiny by myself before I would consider purchasing one. Personally I love the look of that 68 footer they have on their website. If I was able to afford something like that I'ld certainly consider my options carefully. On the other hand. Do you think that thing could outrun pirates off the coast of Yemen with the over 3 thousand (claimed) horsepower using that pair of optional Cat diesels? LOL. Don't need no stinking guns. Just catch us if you can. LOL. On the other hand with only a thousand gallons of fuel capacity I doubt it would ever make it that far. LOL. I'ld never make it across the Pacific with it. -- Bob La Londe http://www.YumaBassMan.com |
Chuck,
I agree completely with your premise that neither Pascoe article, your boating reviews nor Sea Ray's web site accurately reflect the quality of Sea Ray's boats. The putty shown in Pasco's article was not part of SeaRay's lay up schedule, but the putty could have been applied by the builder to correct a problem noticed after the hull was removed from the mold. wrote in message oups.com... Neither David Pascoe's web site or the fluff pieces written by you and other boat magazine accurately represent the quality of SeaRay. At least David Pascoe's web site accurately represents the boat he surveyed. The fluff pieces written by you and others are PR pieces written for the benefit of the builder, the last person they are written for is the prospective boat buyer. Since the boat buyer is not paying you for your fluff piece they are not important. *************** ????????? I never submitted anything I ever wrote as a rebuttal to Larry's insinuation that Sea Ray boats are made from "putty". Do you have a comment on the actual evidence I submitted, (the website showing photos of a Sea Ray layup and a description of the mfg process), or is that also suspect because it appeared in print? And while you're at it, oh wise one, please don't leave us dangling: If you're in a position to dispute Pascoe's site as well as the European article about Sea Ray layup schedules- please do so. Speak right up, no need to keep it a secret. Here's your opportunity to walk the walk, not just talk the talk:_______________ By the way, Pascoe does not claim that his items are "sureys". He admits they are very negatively oriented opinion pieces. He has stated that it is his mission to attemprt to "balance" any and all positive opinion pieces. Try reading the introduction to his site sometime. |
wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: I stand by my comments John, including the fact that fluff reviews do potential buyers a disservice. "It's all about looking good and going fast" to some *boaters*. ************** There's a bright fella. Sticks by his lie that I'm "paid by Sea Ray to defend Sea Ray boats" when even his normally close allies point out the absurdity. And yeah, JimH, for a lot of boaters it is very much about going fast and looking good. Really? You think that's "beneath" your own non-use, as a non-owner, or something? My boat will do 10kts (when pressed hard) but that doesn't mean I'm unable to appreciate the thrill of jumping into a small runabout and zipping up and down the lake on a hot, sunny day. But do you look good doing so Chuk? Ask a waterskier why they engage in the sport and "going fast and having fun" will be up near the top of the list. Gee, I knew the spin would start soon. And it has. Some of them will fantasize that they look good in the process, and sure enough- some of them acutally do. And that is why they boat a SeaRay....eh? You have to be the snobbiest non-boater in the crowd. Last week you diss'd all Sea Ray owners with a comment that they all had large inventories of gold chains and small manhoods. And you said for SeaRay owners it all just about "looking good and going fast".....I would take more of an offence to that if I was a SeaRay owner. Pot-kettle-black. This week you imply that owing a sporty looking boat for the sheer joy of looking good, going fast, and having fun is somehow beneath the definition of a true "boater". Don't exagerate what I said. I repeated words that you used when reviewing a SeaRay boat...."going fast and looking good." Are you now saying you never said this? What in the Sam H would qualify a guy who doesn't even own a boat to cast dispersion on the motivations of people who do? This thread is supposed to be about Sea Ray boats. What prompted your personal attack? If you took it as a personal attack (repeating what you wrote) then that is your problem. |
Duke,
I would not write off Sea Ray from your short list. I would suggest you place very little credence in any articles you read in any of the boating magazines that sell ads from the boat builders. If you read a review of the best built boat and then read an article of the worst built boat, they both will sound like the best thing since sliced bread. Boat magazine publishers and those who write the articles have sold their soul to boat builders and suppliers. The cover price of the magazine do not begin to cover the expense and profit of any of the commercial magazines. They make their money by selling ad space to the very same boat builders they are reviewing. I would recommend you invest in a survey on any boat you buy, either new or used. It is not unheard of for a builder to make a patch (similar to the one shown on Pascoe's web site) to correct a problem found after the hull was pulled from the mold. "Duke" wrote in message m... "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... zeebop wrote in : Hi, I am about to purchase a Sea Ray 215 EC 1997 (I am in the UK) Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/b2m2f I am interested to know if anyone has any experience with one of these and what you thought of it. Thanks zeebop Piece of crap. See for yourself what's inside a Sea Ray boat: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm It's made of "putty"??.... I had the jetboat. Light came through the hull. Seats mildewed because they were made of COTTON-BACKED plastic with cheap furniture foam by some furniture company in Tennesee. The side panel mildewed because the cotton- backed plastic was over a cotton pad all stapled to a piece of packing crate wood. It rotted out twice in 3 years. There was no way to get to the fuel tank INLET or INLET VENT because they were stuffed into the hull before the top was put on with no access hatch. You couldn't even check to see if the fuel tank inlet hoses had a clamp on them because you couldn't see it unless you tore the boat apart. The polyethelene (milk bottle plastic) tank was kept in place with two 1" long plastic angle brackets screwed into the stringer with one sheet metal screw. The two little brackets supported a 25 gallon gas tank! NOT! They were eating into the polyethelene, which is very soft, so I had to build some proper brackets to stop it. The Mercury Sport Jet, considered by CG as an inboard engine, has a 5/16" hose barb for the fuel hose. Sea Ray attached a 3/8" fuel hose because that's what the gas tank fitting had on it. They used two hose clamps to try to squeeze the hose over the smaller barb to keep it from leaking. Didn't work. The fuel hose from the tank to the engine, a 3/8" marine gas line, was supported and held to the engine compartment bulkhead with the same 3" diameter clamps used for the big inlet hose. This meant when the 3/8" hose fell off the 5/16" barb into the bilge, it pulled the hose through these huge clamps far enough the suction of the siphon effect overcame the anti-siphon valve, if it had one, and filled the enclosed up hull with about 6" of GASOLINE! The fumes were strong enough to roughly run the engine sucking its air supply from in the compartment. Why it didn't explode is simply a miracle. I won't admit to where I pumped 10 gallons of gasoline way up a river in the swamp. I was not amused. Sea Ray sent me a lifetime supply of 5/16" gas hose, proving they actually knew what 5/16" hose looked like. I still have a whole roll if you need it. I solved the problem with a proper fuel filter/water separator with 3/8" inlet and 5/16" outlet fittings the damned company should have used in the first place if they hadn't been so damned greedy. Sea Ray of Charleston, a bigshot marine dealer...... I didn't buy my boat from my local dealer because I bought it in Birmingham, Alabama for $3500 less money from a dealer there. OK, so I'm a bad boy getting it for wholesale from an overstocked dealer. I had the boat serviced a couple of times at the local dealer when someone noticed the dealer sticker from Dead Ahead Marine on the back of the boat. I was informed my Sea Ray boat was no longer welcome at my Sea Ray dealer for warranty service as the local dealer didn't sell this boat. I called Sea Ray and was told that was correct. The Sea Ray dealer didn't have to service my Sea Ray boat if he didn't sell it. Isn't that nice?! How supportive of the company.... Nope...no thanks. Sea Ray (or Brunswick's other boat companies) don't have to worry about selling me another boat. I'll pass. Just thought you should know..... England sure has some beautifully made boats. Why buy a piece of American made crap?? -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. Well that sucks. I am looking to buy a new boat in September and SeaRay was on the top of my list. Maxum being second. Thanks, Duke |
Newsgroup Reader wrote:
Duke, I would not write off Sea Ray from your short list. I would suggest you place very little credence in any articles you read in any of the boating magazines that sell ads from the boat builders. I'd also suggest placing very little credence in people who don't give their name and who insist that dentists are the same as doctors. DSK |
DSK,
Is DSK your legal name or just one your friends call you? PS - I do not think doctors are dentists are the same thing. I believe dentists are a subset of "doctors", the same way a dermatologist, surgeon and psychiatrist are subsets of "doctors". Just in case Harry is reading this post, I do not believe a social worker qualifies as a subset of "doctors". ; ) "DSK" wrote in message ... Newsgroup Reader wrote: Duke, I would not write off Sea Ray from your short list. I would suggest you place very little credence in any articles you read in any of the boating magazines that sell ads from the boat builders. I'd also suggest placing very little credence in people who don't give their name and who insist that dentists are the same as doctors. DSK |
I find it interesting that David Pascoe is just on ONE boat. One boat does
not fairly represent the whole line of boats by that manufacturer. So in MY OPINION, I give Pascoe website very little consideration. Now if he had documented cases of several Sea Rays like that, then it might hold some weight. Ed wrote in message oups.com... Neither David Pascoe's web site or the fluff pieces written by you and other boat magazine accurately represent the quality of SeaRay. At least David Pascoe's web site accurately represents the boat he surveyed. The fluff pieces written by you and others are PR pieces written for the benefit of the builder, the last person they are written for is the prospective boat buyer. Since the boat buyer is not paying you for your fluff piece they are not important. *************** ????????? I never submitted anything I ever wrote as a rebuttal to Larry's insinuation that Sea Ray boats are made from "putty". Do you have a comment on the actual evidence I submitted, (the website showing photos of a Sea Ray layup and a description of the mfg process), or is that also suspect because it appeared in print? And while you're at it, oh wise one, please don't leave us dangling: If you're in a position to dispute Pascoe's site as well as the European article about Sea Ray layup schedules- please do so. Speak right up, no need to keep it a secret. Here's your opportunity to walk the walk, not just talk the talk:_______________ By the way, Pascoe does not claim that his items are "sureys". He admits they are very negatively oriented opinion pieces. He has stated that it is his mission to attemprt to "balance" any and all positive opinion pieces. Try reading the introduction to his site sometime. |
Newsgroup Reader wrote:
DSK, Is DSK your legal name or just one your friends call you? It's a lot closer to my name than "Newsgroup Reader" is to yours. PS - I do not think doctors are dentists are the same thing. I believe dentists are a subset of "doctors", the same way a dermatologist, surgeon and psychiatrist are subsets of "doctors". Really? Massage therapists too? How about Ph.Ds? Here's a clue, although i suspect you will leap nimbly out of it's way: take a good look at the years of school & training required to become a dermatologist, a surgeon, a psychiatrist, or for that matter an opthalmologist... take a look at the entry requirements for the schools, and at how many are turned away... Now look at dental schools... gee how many years of residency are required? How many hunreds of applicants are turned away from dental school, and what is their average MCAT score? Oh wait, you don't even have to take MCATs do you?? Does that tell you something? DSK |
Newsgroup reader:
You have neatly dodged my invitation to explain to the group how Sea Ray hulls are laid up. You agree that Pascoe's site is bogus, and yet you seem to discount the independent web site as equally inaccurate. You offer some vague observation that the truth is somehwere "in between". Layup is a technical issue that can be precisely described. If Pascoe is not accurate and you insist the technical website is not acuurate, would you please enlighten us about the actual layup process and schedule? Failure to do so would leave us all with the impression that you are talking through that hat you bought at West Marine- the one with all the scrambled eggs on the visor and "Captain" stitched into the crown. |
DSK,
If I changed my name to RMH would that make my post as valued as yours? Since you refuse to believe Harvard University or the hundreds of other schools when they say dentists are doctors, how about a unbiased source such as the Metropolitan Chicago Healthcare Council. http://www.mchc.org/hcg/Dentist.asp I do not believe anything I say or anything anyone in the filed of medicine says will change your mind so this is really a moot discussion. "DSK" wrote in message ... Newsgroup Reader wrote: DSK, Is DSK your legal name or just one your friends call you? It's a lot closer to my name than "Newsgroup Reader" is to yours. PS - I do not think doctors are dentists are the same thing. I believe dentists are a subset of "doctors", the same way a dermatologist, surgeon and psychiatrist are subsets of "doctors". Really? Massage therapists too? How about Ph.Ds? Here's a clue, although i suspect you will leap nimbly out of it's way: take a good look at the years of school & training required to become a dermatologist, a surgeon, a psychiatrist, or for that matter an opthalmologist... take a look at the entry requirements for the schools, and at how many are turned away... Now look at dental schools... gee how many years of residency are required? How many hunreds of applicants are turned away from dental school, and what is their average MCAT score? Oh wait, you don't even have to take MCATs do you?? Does that tell you something? DSK |
wrote in message oups.com... Newsgroup reader: You have neatly dodged my invitation to explain to the group how Sea Ray hulls are laid up. You agree that Pascoe's site is bogus, and yet you seem to discount the independent web site as equally inaccurate. You offer some vague observation that the truth is somehwere "in between". Layup is a technical issue that can be precisely described. If Pascoe is not accurate and you insist the technical website is not acuurate, would you please enlighten us about the actual layup process and schedule? Failure to do so would leave us all with the impression that you are talking through that hat you bought at West Marine- the one with all the scrambled eggs on the visor and "Captain" stitched into the crown. Why the need for a personal attack on him Chuck? And you blame others for doing exactly what *you* do. Amazing. |
*JimH* wrote:
Why the need for a personal attack on him Chuck? Why is asking for further explanation considered a "personal attack"? DSK |
Gould,
In the two web sites your provided I learned that Sea Ray use robots to spray chopped strand fiberglass into the molds. I could not find on either of the web sites you provided anything that came close to resembling a technical layout schedule. I did not see anything that discussed the thickness of the gel coat or the thickness of chopped fiberglass strand, including minimum and maximum thickness between the high stress areas and the low stress areas. I did not see anything that discuss how much time they allow for the gel coat to cure or the fiberglass to cure between each step. I did not see anything that discussed the ratio of fiberglass to epoxy nor the relative strength characteristics of this cost saving technique versus the traditional methods of laying fiberglass hulls. I did see two web sites selling the benefits of their products, without providing the technical layout schedule. I did think it was very humorous that you thought the advertisement published by the company who sold SeaRay the robots to "an independent web site". wrote in message oups.com... Newsgroup reader: You have neatly dodged my invitation to explain to the group how Sea Ray hulls are laid up. You agree that Pascoe's site is bogus, and yet you seem to discount the independent web site as equally inaccurate. You offer some vague observation that the truth is somehwere "in between". Layup is a technical issue that can be precisely described. If Pascoe is not accurate and you insist the technical website is not acuurate, would you please enlighten us about the actual layup process and schedule? Failure to do so would leave us all with the impression that you are talking through that hat you bought at West Marine- the one with all the scrambled eggs on the visor and "Captain" stitched into the crown. |
Smithers wrote:
Gould, In the two web sites your provided I learned that Sea Ray use robots to spray chopped strand fiberglass into the molds. I could not find on either of the web sites you provided anything that came close to resembling a technical layout schedule. I did not see anything that discussed the thickness of the gel coat or the thickness of chopped fiberglass strand, including minimum and maximum thickness between the high stress areas and the low stress areas. I did not see anything that discuss how much time they allow for the gel coat to cure or the fiberglass to cure between each step. I did not see anything that discussed the ratio of fiberglass to epoxy nor the relative strength characteristics of this cost saving technique versus the traditional methods of laying fiberglass hulls. I did see two web sites selling the benefits of their products, without providing the technical layout schedule. ************* Yet you claim sufficient knowledge to be able to dismiss both Larry's malicious slam and the general description of the layup process on the non- Sea Ray site as equally misleading. Once you got past the false notion that I was using one of my own articles to support my argument, you then claimed the truth is "somewhere in between." Once again, why not allow the group the benefit of your detailed and precise knowledge about Sea Ray layup? Just exactly *where*, in between, does the "truth" fall? Surely you must know, or you wouldn't presume to make such a statement. It's amazing that you choose to believe that a company responsible for supplying robotics to Sea Ray wouldn't be able to accurately describe how those robots function and what they do. Oh well. You're entitled to your opinion and conjecture. |
Chuck,
You have absolutely no idea what the technical layout schedule for SeaRay is. You have provided absolutely no information except advertisements from SeaRay and the robot supplier, yet you think you have provided valuable info. Larry's info was based upon personal info, yours is based upon public relations bull****. I do believe the company who built the robots can describe what they are capable of doing, and they did a good job of doing that. They did not nor did SeaRay discuss any details concerning their technical fiberglass lay-up. The fact that you think either of those web sites did either, places any of your observations in questions.. The one thing everyone who has ever read your boat "reviews" or observations agrees upon is they are well written fluff pieces designed to sell ad space in your magazine. I don't think anyone has ever thought they were anything else. You have become delusional in your thought process. wrote in message oups.com... Smithers wrote: Gould, In the two web sites your provided I learned that Sea Ray use robots to spray chopped strand fiberglass into the molds. I could not find on either of the web sites you provided anything that came close to resembling a technical layout schedule. I did not see anything that discussed the thickness of the gel coat or the thickness of chopped fiberglass strand, including minimum and maximum thickness between the high stress areas and the low stress areas. I did not see anything that discuss how much time they allow for the gel coat to cure or the fiberglass to cure between each step. I did not see anything that discussed the ratio of fiberglass to epoxy nor the relative strength characteristics of this cost saving technique versus the traditional methods of laying fiberglass hulls. I did see two web sites selling the benefits of their products, without providing the technical layout schedule. ************* Yet you claim sufficient knowledge to be able to dismiss both Larry's malicious slam and the general description of the layup process on the non- Sea Ray site as equally misleading. Once you got past the false notion that I was using one of my own articles to support my argument, you then claimed the truth is "somewhere in between." Once again, why not allow the group the benefit of your detailed and precise knowledge about Sea Ray layup? Just exactly *where*, in between, does the "truth" fall? Surely you must know, or you wouldn't presume to make such a statement. It's amazing that you choose to believe that a company responsible for supplying robotics to Sea Ray wouldn't be able to accurately describe how those robots function and what they do. Oh well. You're entitled to your opinion and conjecture. |
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