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2005 Bayliner 175 run about, should I buy?
Looking at a 2005 Bayliner 175 runabout (Capri), and wondering if anyone has
recommendations on it. Bayliner web sire says $9,995, but Olympic Boat centers say $12,875 out the door (tax and set up charge). Q: -how flexible are dealers with this $9,999 "M.S.R.P." business? How flexible are dealers in general ? -what of the 2005 175 (3.0/A-1) in general? The Merc 3.0/A-1 has a pretty proven track record, right? Thanks in advance! |
Do they itemize the remaining portion of the $2880 that isn't sales
tax? (Sales tax should be about $900, right?) As far as "how flexible are dealers with the $9,999 MSRP?" Obviously very. They flexed *up* almost $2k. There probably isn't much profit in that boat at $9,999. Often isn't on leaders, and the $9999 price has been the advertised MSRP on the entry level boat for a long time. Costs have been climbing while the price has not, so the only thing that can give way is profit. The dealer may be required to purchase a certain number of the loss leaders, but cannot be compelled to sell them at a price the factory "suggests". The dealer might actually need to ask for the additional dough over and above MSRP to make the deal pencil; in which case the builder is to blame for publishing an unrealistic MSRP just as much as the dealer is to blame for failing to follow the "manufacturer's suggeston". |
8.?% sales tax, yea, and like $997 for destination/prep (stated on the
Bayliner site), but don't know where the balance of the "$12,875 out the door price is". I'll ask. Thanks for this info - it gives me a much better insight. Don't know if dickering with this MSRP is even worth it since I see how much more the 185's and 195's are. For example, the 185 jumps up to $16,???, and the 195 like 18K+. wrote in message ups.com... Do they itemize the remaining portion of the $2880 that isn't sales tax? (Sales tax should be about $900, right?) As far as "how flexible are dealers with the $9,999 MSRP?" Obviously very. They flexed *up* almost $2k. There probably isn't much profit in that boat at $9,999. Often isn't on leaders, and the $9999 price has been the advertised MSRP on the entry level boat for a long time. Costs have been climbing while the price has not, so the only thing that can give way is profit. The dealer may be required to purchase a certain number of the loss leaders, but cannot be compelled to sell them at a price the factory "suggests". The dealer might actually need to ask for the additional dough over and above MSRP to make the deal pencil; in which case the builder is to blame for publishing an unrealistic MSRP just as much as the dealer is to blame for failing to follow the "manufacturer's suggeston". |
Well it's pulling a bit closer into reality.
If the Bayliner site discloses a $997 destination charge, then the actual MSRP is really about $11k rather than $9995. Add 8.8% to $11k, and you're up to within a short spit of $12k. They should be able to account for that last $875 somewhere, maybe its a charge for bottom paint, custom pinstripes, a fancy wax job, etc. Odds are almost 100% that whatever is being charged out at $875 cost only a small portion of that number...BUT, that said, the dealer needs to make a profit to stay in business. There are two perspectives available in a situation like this. The first is to get all hung up on the horrible reality that the boat dealer sells boats for more than he pays for them and go into some funk because somebody will make a very small profit along the line. Not a suggested approach. The second is to simply compare all the new boats you can buy for $128XX out the door, (or whatever you budget dictates) and pick and choose between them to get the one you like the most and will serve you best. As you have noticed- there is almost *no* competition in the Under-$13k out the door for new boat, motor and trailer category. Almost reduces the question to do you like it or not and do you choose to afford it or not, as the list of competing offers won't be especially long. One reason you won't run into a lot of wheeling and dealing on that model is the margins are so darn skinny that the dealer's bottom line won't change much regardless whether you buy the boat or not. |
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:08:33 -0700, "Mr Wizzard"
wrote: Looking at a 2005 Bayliner 175 runabout (Capri), and wondering if anyone has recommendations on it. Bayliner web sire says $9,995, but Olympic Boat centers say $12,875 out the door (tax and set up charge). Q: -how flexible are dealers with this $9,999 "M.S.R.P." business? How flexible are dealers in general ? I read an article about these boats a year or so ago - they are made in Mexico and are considered an "entry" level boat, but they do carry a certain markup for the manufacturer. What the dealer charges above and beyond the MSRP is his business. Strangely, the MSRP is usually a price above what the dealer will usually deal for - this is an interesting anomaly. Marine USA is selling that boat for $10,995 which is about what I would expect including dealer prep, delivery, etc. With tax in this state, registration, etc, about $11,500. Offer him $10,995. -what of the 2005 175 (3.0/A-1) in general? The Merc 3.0/A-1 has a pretty proven track record, right? Don't know, but it's the engine/boat combination you are getting for that price - no other options. It's a good entry level boat if that's what you are looking for. |
All depends what and where you are boating along with what you expect the
boat to perform like. Years ago I looked at the same boat but passed after top speeds were only 30mph and I felt it didn't have enough power for my family members who wanted to learn how to water ski. "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message ... Looking at a 2005 Bayliner 175 runabout (Capri), and wondering if anyone has recommendations on it. Bayliner web sire says $9,995, but Olympic Boat centers say $12,875 out the door (tax and set up charge). Q: -how flexible are dealers with this $9,999 "M.S.R.P." business? How flexible are dealers in general ? -what of the 2005 175 (3.0/A-1) in general? The Merc 3.0/A-1 has a pretty proven track record, right? Thanks in advance! |
Note about the "missing" $875........it occurs to me that the math thus
far hasn't included anything for license and registration of the boat and the trailer. You may find a lot of the $875 in those two numbers. |
on june 1 of this year I purchased the same boat. total cost was 11500. its
a great little boat but dont expect to go ocean cruising with it. my top speed is 45 mph with a full tank and 49 almost empty, thats with 2 people on board and full coolers. As far as ski'ing and tubing, it does fine There is plenty of power in the little 4 banger. Good luck you will like the boat Steve "Woodchuck" wrote in message .. . All depends what and where you are boating along with what you expect the boat to perform like. Years ago I looked at the same boat but passed after top speeds were only 30mph and I felt it didn't have enough power for my family members who wanted to learn how to water ski. "Mr Wizzard" wrote in message ... Looking at a 2005 Bayliner 175 runabout (Capri), and wondering if anyone has recommendations on it. Bayliner web sire says $9,995, but Olympic Boat centers say $12,875 out the door (tax and set up charge). Q: -how flexible are dealers with this $9,999 "M.S.R.P." business? How flexible are dealers in general ? -what of the 2005 175 (3.0/A-1) in general? The Merc 3.0/A-1 has a pretty proven track record, right? Thanks in advance! |
Was your "total cost" inclusive of tax and license?
What are sales tax and license fees in your state? Because taxes and license fees will vary so much from one state to another, it's usually better to compare net prices than figures "out the door." |
You may find a lot of the $875 in those two numbers.
Maybe if you are including sales tax, surely not just for registration. *********** I have reason to suspect the OP may be from the Puget Sound area or possibly CA. I just today renewed the WA state tabs on "Indulgence" (all out boat tabs expire June 30 each year). Just under $400. It always gripes me that documented boats have to pay the same tab fees as boats with state titles, but it's easy to see why this is so when considering the state's perspective. My boat is worth at least a little bit more than the boat MR. Wizzard is considering- but still even the least expensive boat carries a walloping tab tax around here. I can't imagine that a trailer would license for much less than $75 or so. And sales tax on $11k? At almost 9% that's almost a $Geazle right there. The $875 would exceed the license fees for the boat and trailer, but it would be accurate around here to say that a "lot" of that $875 cold be consumed by tabs and registration fees. |
wrote in message oups.com... You may find a lot of the $875 in those two numbers. Maybe if you are including sales tax, surely not just for registration. *********** I have reason to suspect the OP may be from the Puget Sound area or possibly CA. I just today renewed the WA state tabs on "Indulgence" (all out boat tabs expire June 30 each year). Just under $400. It always gripes me that documented boats have to pay the same tab fees as boats with state titles, but it's easy to see why this is so when considering the state's perspective. My boat is worth at least a little bit more than the boat MR. Wizzard is considering- but still even the least expensive boat carries a walloping tab tax around here. I can't imagine that a trailer would license for much less than $75 or so. And sales tax on $11k? At almost 9% that's almost a $Geazle right there. The $875 would exceed the license fees for the boat and trailer, but it would be accurate around here to say that a "lot" of that $875 cold be consumed by tabs and registration fees. Ah, very good logic. And yeah, this would be WA state tabs too. So listen, thanks for all the wonderfull info in this thread, its been very very helpfull - more so then I expected, so thanks so much !! |
wrote in message ups.com... Was your "total cost" inclusive of tax and license? I think he said $12,875 or something like that. And that was total, out the door, tax, license, etc... What are sales tax and license fees in your state? WA state tax is what, 8.6% or somehting like that ? Because taxes and license fees will vary so much from one state to another, it's usually better to compare net prices than figures "out the door." |
no the total cost with tax and license was 12300. i refused to have the
taxes and license in the loan wrote in message ups.com... Was your "total cost" inclusive of tax and license? What are sales tax and license fees in your state? Because taxes and license fees will vary so much from one state to another, it's usually better to compare net prices than figures "out the door." |
no the total cost with tax and license was 12300. i refused to have the
taxes and license in the loan ********* So you paid $11,500 for the boat, plus tax and license for a total of $12,300. That sounds like about the same deal Mr. Wizzard is looking at, roughly. You must have a fairly low tax rate if you got by with tax on $11.5k and registration fees for only $800. |
I bought the 175 four months ago. My two cents:
1) There is little (no) room for negotiation in the base price of $9,995. Adding dealer prep charges and sales tax, you should expect to pay approx. $12,000, (excluding any dealer installed options). You should also add some basic safety equipment (as per Coast Guard requirements) - this would bring the price to about $12,300. $12,875 without any accessories or optional equipment looks a little bit high. I paid $12,800 for my boat including safety package, bimini top and boat cover. 2) It's a great entry level boat. It is very solid and the hull performs very well. Despite the low price, it is as good (or better) as any higher priced boat in the same size category in terms of structural strength and performance / handling. The standard trailer that comes with the boat is OK. The built quality is also fine - I have not found any obvious quality issues with my boat, nor other 3 identical boats I inspected before making the purchase. The negatives that come with the low price a - no options (engines, electronics, etc.) - very basic (but functional) interior - it lacks the "sexy" look of more expensive boats (simple paint job, "boxy" windshield) 3) The 3.0 engine has enough power for regular use, including sking. It is simple, reliable and relatively easy and cheap to maintain. Spare parts and service are available everywhere. My boat runs 26 mph at 3000 rpm with 2 adults + 2 children, and WOT speed is close to 45 mph (at 4800 rpm). But the best thing is fuel economy. I can enjoy a full day on the water burning less than 10 gal of fuel. 4) You don't say how and where are you going to use the boat. Because of its size and design, the Bayliner 175 is not an "ocean liner" or serious off-shore boat - nor any other 17 or 18 ft runabout would be. But it's great to boat around on lakes and rivers. I use mine on lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana and surronding rivers and bayous. For the people not familiar with lake Pontchartrain, it is 20 miles wide and 40 miles long, and usually has a nasty 2 ft chop. The 175 delivers a safe and dry (although sometimes bumpy) ride on our lake, and I have never had any issues or safety concerns, even when caught once right in the middle of the lake in "small craft advisory" conditions. Net, great entry level boat to enjoy every weekend without worrying about breaking the bank. It does not have the looks and the extra details of similar sized boats that cost 30 to 50% more, but it is easy to enjoy with the family. |
Well, then thats about right then. I called Olympic Boat center and
had them spell out hte charges. The missing money is the $550 in what they call "rigging" - the putting on of the outdrive, battery, assembly etc. They are stiff, lemme tell ya... I even called other Olympic boatcenters - FIRM! - $12,750 out the door, not a penny cheaper. "seeray28" wrote in message ... no the total cost with tax and license was 12300. i refused to have the taxes and license in the loan wrote in message ups.com... Was your "total cost" inclusive of tax and license? What are sales tax and license fees in your state? Because taxes and license fees will vary so much from one state to another, it's usually better to compare net prices than figures "out the door." |
"katekebo" wrote in message oups.com... I bought the 175 four months ago. My two cents: 1) There is little (no) room for negotiation in the base price of $9,995. Adding dealer prep charges and sales tax, you should expect to pay approx. $12,000, (excluding any dealer installed options). You should also add some basic safety equipment (as per Coast Guard requirements) - this would bring the price to about $12,300. $12,875 without any accessories or optional equipment looks a little bit high. I paid $12,800 for my boat including safety package, bimini top and boat cover. 2) It's a great entry level boat. It is very solid and the hull performs very well. Despite the low price, it is as good (or better) as any higher priced boat in the same size category in terms of structural strength and performance / handling. The standard trailer that comes with the boat is OK. The built quality is also fine - I have not found any obvious quality issues with my boat, nor other 3 identical boats I inspected before making the purchase. The negatives that come with the low price a - no options (engines, electronics, etc.) - very basic (but functional) interior - it lacks the "sexy" look of more expensive boats (simple paint job, "boxy" windshield) 3) The 3.0 engine has enough power for regular use, including sking. It is simple, reliable and relatively easy and cheap to maintain. Spare parts and service are available everywhere. My boat runs 26 mph at 3000 rpm with 2 adults + 2 children, and WOT speed is close to 45 mph (at 4800 rpm). But the best thing is fuel economy. I can enjoy a full day on the water burning less than 10 gal of fuel. 4) You don't say how and where are you going to use the boat. Because of its size and design, the Bayliner 175 is not an "ocean liner" or serious off-shore boat - nor any other 17 or 18 ft runabout would be. But it's great to boat around on lakes and rivers. I use mine on lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana and surronding rivers and bayous. For the people not familiar with lake Pontchartrain, it is 20 miles wide and 40 miles long, and usually has a nasty 2 ft chop. The 175 delivers a safe and dry (although sometimes bumpy) ride on our lake, and I have never had any issues or safety concerns, even when caught once right in the middle of the lake in "small craft advisory" conditions. Net, great entry level boat to enjoy every weekend without worrying about breaking the bank. It does not have the looks and the extra details of similar sized boats that cost 30 to 50% more, but it is easy to enjoy with the family. Excelent review! - very helpfull. (you guys are 'arite!) Bottom line here is $12,875, and they won't budge. So we're real close (dollar wise), so I guess this is a good deal. First big boat (above my 9.5 Zodiac Zoom with a brand new Jonson 8), so just moving slow here. I'm close to getting the gumption to just say, ah ****, lets just do it. As far as what I'd be doing with it? - well, whatever I *can* do with it. Lots of local lakes here, and just to get it out on the ocean/Lake Washington, Puget Sound, or whatever/wherever I can safely go with it. |
A couple of more after-thoughts...
The price I paid included registration (until 2008) in Louisiana. Also, I can't quite understand the term "rigging" - the boat should come with the battery, etc. included. But still, $12,800 or a little bit more is a good price for such a boat. Although I did not have any problems with my boat - the engine is running smooth, the transmission cables are well adjusted, etc., I did identify one defect which, if not corrected immediately, could be a safety issue - the bilge pump was not working because one of the cable connections was loose. Being a mechanically-inclined person, I corrected the problem myself before taking the boat on the water. Also, I do the basic maintenance (oil change, etc.) myself. However, I have read few posts on web forums from people who had some problems with their new 175's - engine alarm not working, engine running rough, etc. So before taking the boat home, go for a test ride with the dealer and make sure that ALL problems (regardless of how small) get corrected. Don't play with safety, make sure that the boat is in 100% perfect conditions before taking it to open waters. And demand that all defects are corrected under warranty to your complete satisfactions. If the dealer does not respond, contact Bayliner (Brunswick Marine) directly - usually they give good customer service. If you want more information about your new boat and help from other Bayliner users, check the following link: http://pub12.ezboard.com/bbocweb Good luck with you new boat. Enjoy it. Mr Wizzard wrote: "katekebo" wrote in message oups.com... I bought the 175 four months ago. My two cents: 1) There is little (no) room for negotiation in the base price of $9,995. Adding dealer prep charges and sales tax, you should expect to pay approx. $12,000, (excluding any dealer installed options). You should also add some basic safety equipment (as per Coast Guard requirements) - this would bring the price to about $12,300. $12,875 without any accessories or optional equipment looks a little bit high. I paid $12,800 for my boat including safety package, bimini top and boat cover. 2) It's a great entry level boat. It is very solid and the hull performs very well. Despite the low price, it is as good (or better) as any higher priced boat in the same size category in terms of structural strength and performance / handling. The standard trailer that comes with the boat is OK. The built quality is also fine - I have not found any obvious quality issues with my boat, nor other 3 identical boats I inspected before making the purchase. The negatives that come with the low price a - no options (engines, electronics, etc.) - very basic (but functional) interior - it lacks the "sexy" look of more expensive boats (simple paint job, "boxy" windshield) 3) The 3.0 engine has enough power for regular use, including sking. It is simple, reliable and relatively easy and cheap to maintain. Spare parts and service are available everywhere. My boat runs 26 mph at 3000 rpm with 2 adults + 2 children, and WOT speed is close to 45 mph (at 4800 rpm). But the best thing is fuel economy. I can enjoy a full day on the water burning less than 10 gal of fuel. 4) You don't say how and where are you going to use the boat. Because of its size and design, the Bayliner 175 is not an "ocean liner" or serious off-shore boat - nor any other 17 or 18 ft runabout would be. But it's great to boat around on lakes and rivers. I use mine on lake Pontchartrain in Louisiana and surronding rivers and bayous. For the people not familiar with lake Pontchartrain, it is 20 miles wide and 40 miles long, and usually has a nasty 2 ft chop. The 175 delivers a safe and dry (although sometimes bumpy) ride on our lake, and I have never had any issues or safety concerns, even when caught once right in the middle of the lake in "small craft advisory" conditions. Net, great entry level boat to enjoy every weekend without worrying about breaking the bank. It does not have the looks and the extra details of similar sized boats that cost 30 to 50% more, but it is easy to enjoy with the family. Excelent review! - very helpfull. (you guys are 'arite!) Bottom line here is $12,875, and they won't budge. So we're real close (dollar wise), so I guess this is a good deal. First big boat (above my 9.5 Zodiac Zoom with a brand new Jonson 8), so just moving slow here. I'm close to getting the gumption to just say, ah ****, lets just do it. As far as what I'd be doing with it? - well, whatever I *can* do with it. Lots of local lakes here, and just to get it out on the ocean/Lake Washington, Puget Sound, or whatever/wherever I can safely go with it. |
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Around 6/24/2005 7:42 PM, Mr Wizzard wrote:
They are stiff, lemme tell ya... I even called other Olympic boatcenters - FIRM! - $12,750 out the door, not a penny cheaper. Well, late June in the PNW is probably not the best time to try and haggle with boat dealers over small-margin boats... -- ~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat" "There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." -Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows |
Around 6/24/2005 7:49 PM, Mr Wizzard wrote:
As far as what I'd be doing with it? - well, whatever I *can* do with it. Lots of local lakes here, and just to get it out on the ocean/Lake Washington, Puget Sound, or whatever/wherever I can safely go with it. Lake W. is a blast. I've got an aunt and uncle with a waterfront home and a dock at the south end, and I always enjoy tubing down there. Just last weekend, I took my dad for a nice Father's Day weekend day trip. Launched at Everett, headed down to Seattle and went through the locks, cruised around Lake Union for a while, and headed back. Saw some nice boats, got a nice tan, and even saw the Garth Foss, looking good as usual. :) It was especially fun watching the North American Laser Championship races taking place north of Shilsole Bay, but not particularly fun trying to work our way around them. As for wherever you can safely go, my dad took the 14' all the way up to Desolation Sound when he was a teen. I personally have had it as far north as Nanaimo. *If* you pick your weather and take your time, a 17' should be able to handle most of the Puget Sound and Gulf Islands. Of course, my dad and I both had larger "support" boats along in case of emergency... -- ~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat" "There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." -Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows |
As for wherever you can safely go, my dad took the 14' all the way up
to Desolation Sound when he was a teen. I personally have had it as far north as Nanaimo. *If* you pick your weather and take your time, a 17' should be able to handle most of the Puget Sound and Gulf Islands. Of course, my dad and I both had larger "support" boats along in case of emergency... ************ I agree with Garth.... PIcking the weather will be very important when using that boat on Puget Sound. Under better than average conditions you will be fine. Under average conditions, you will occasionally be challenged. Under anything much worse than average conditions, you will need to be somewhat skillful and/or moderately lucky. If the wind really starts to howl, you could be in serious trouble. Advice for Mr. Wizzard: If you're hitting the salt water with your new boat, make sure you install a VHF. VHF is not required safety equipment, (and some people think they can substitute a cell phone), but the smaller the boat the more the reasons why you want to be able to communicate not just with the Coast Guard or your family back at home but other vessels in the vicinity where you will be using the boat. VHF is less critical on a small lake, as most of the other boats won't have a VHF or won't be monitoring it, (and if the wind comes up unexpectedly you might bo only a few minutes from the ramp)......but out on the Sound etc almost everybody with a boat of any size will be monitoring the VHF. Have a great time! :-) |
wrote in message oups.com... As for wherever you can safely go, my dad took the 14' all the way up to Desolation Sound when he was a teen. I personally have had it as far north as Nanaimo. *If* you pick your weather and take your time, a 17' should be able to handle most of the Puget Sound and Gulf Islands. Of course, my dad and I both had larger "support" boats along in case of emergency... ************ Thanks Chuck, and all the others in this thread for the wonderfull info. Shopping for boats has been very difficult for me with all the old junk out there, the used, the new, the unforeseen problems on used ****, prices of new ****, hell, my head was about to explode! - I couldn't handle the anguish anymore, it was consuming me, I had to put and end to it. So, I went out Sunday morning, had breakfast, drove down to Olympic, spend an hour+ talking to the guy and thinking about it, and walking back and forth and back out to the parking lot for a smoke, and said screw it, I gotta put an end to this madness, and I walked back in and told the guy, ok, lets do it, sign me up, lets get this over with. So I did it, and I'll take delivery of my new 2005 Bayliner 175 this Wednesday night. BTW, this was another salesman at another store than the one I originally went to. Also learned more about the pricing on this boat too. They make exactally $168 on this boat, and thats set in stone, and thats all there is to it. And I'll look into getting a VHF rig. And as a ham radio guy, this would be a welcome addition anyways. So between now and Wednesday night, any last minute things I need to know about (or should get) ? I do plan on getting their little Coast Guard kit they have with fenders, life vests, etc. Thanks ! I agree with Garth.... PIcking the weather will be very important when using that boat on Puget Sound. Under better than average conditions you will be fine. Under average conditions, you will occasionally be challenged. Under anything much worse than average conditions, you will need to be somewhat skillful and/or moderately lucky. If the wind really starts to howl, you could be in serious trouble. Advice for Mr. Wizzard: If you're hitting the salt water with your new boat, make sure you install a VHF. VHF is not required safety equipment, (and some people think they can substitute a cell phone), but the smaller the boat the more the reasons why you want to be able to communicate not just with the Coast Guard or your family back at home but other vessels in the vicinity where you will be using the boat. VHF is less critical on a small lake, as most of the other boats won't have a VHF or won't be monitoring it, (and if the wind comes up unexpectedly you might bo only a few minutes from the ramp)......but out on the Sound etc almost everybody with a boat of any size will be monitoring the VHF. Have a great time! :-) |
Congrats!
You might check the contents of that Coast Guard Kit, and its price, against building your own from scratch at Boater's World or West Marine. Particularly as it isn't a "throw in" with this boat. Upgrade the fire extinguisher. Be sure to stow some sort of anchor with maybe 40- 60 feet of rode. (your brakes in case of an engine malfunction). You can get a small boat set-up that will sit under the bow in a carrying bag until the day you (hopefully won't) need it. Think about a first aid kit. Not as big a deal if you're never more than a couple of minutes from the boat ramp and there's a kit in the tow vehicle....but even so..... If this is a first boat or you are going to be venturing into the sound for the first time, pick up a copy of Chapman's at a marine supply store and let that be your bedside reading for a while. Better yet, sign up for a USCG Aux or Power Squadron course. Above all, have fun. That's why you bought a boat. :-) |
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