"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message

Bush started in New England, too. He was born in the same hospital I
was, in New Haven, Connecticut. His father was attending Yale at the
time,

Don't be a simpleton, Harry -- you know better than that. Where you're
born
is not always the salient point. Kerry was born in Colorado.

W lived in Texas oil country from the time he was a small boy.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be using the Texas thing as an
excuse for your leader sounding like a dolt. That's an insult to the rest of
Texas. Are you sure that's what you want to imply?

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message


Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be using the Texas thing as an
excuse for your leader sounding like a dolt. That's an insult to the rest
of
Texas. Are you sure that's what you want to imply?


You're wrong. I'm damn sure of what I want to imply, when I want to imply
anything.

I use "... the Texas thing..." (as you so quaintly put it) as an example
simply of why GW doesn't sound like another New England Prep School Kennedy
clone. You seem to be implying that anyone who doesn't do the Kerry/Kennedy
impersonation sounds like a dolt. Are you sure that's what you want to
imply? :-)

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message


Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be using the Texas thing as an
excuse for your leader sounding like a dolt. That's an insult to the
rest
of
Texas. Are you sure that's what you want to imply?


You're wrong. I'm damn sure of what I want to imply, when I want to imply
anything.

I use "... the Texas thing..." (as you so quaintly put it) as an example
simply of why GW doesn't sound like another New England Prep School
Kennedy
clone. You seem to be implying that anyone who doesn't do the
Kerry/Kennedy
impersonation sounds like a dolt. Are you sure that's what you want to
imply? :-)



Regional accents are like regional cuisine and music: Without them, this
would be a pretty boring country. But, we're not talking about accents.
We're talking about two different things. A person from Oklahoma may
pronounce "fence" in a way that sounds as if the word has two syllables, or
like "fancy" without the "y", but it's still a fence. This doesn't make them
illiterate, and it doesn't matter whether they sound like a Kennedy. But,
when a person says "Is our children learning?", or several hundred other
GRAMMATICAL gaffs, it's clear he is not fit for public office. "Most of our
imports come from overseas". Zzzz....

Get it? You're talking about accents, and I'm talking about grammar. If you
are saying that being from Texas excuses a person's hideous grammar, you are
insulting the entire state of Texas.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message

.....You're talking about accents, and I'm talking about grammar.

No, you're missing my point, Doug. You're attributing grammatical or
structural mis-speaks to rank ignorance, but I disagree. I say they
predominantly arise from insecurity and self-consciousness in [mostly]
ex-temp public speaking.

His recent press conference is a case in point. I saw a room full of
professional wordsmiths and stand-up reporters doing their utmost to
embarrass and humiliate the President of the US. These guys are all
building their careers on the ease with which they can make a bad speaker
look uneasy. I think we may be only a short time from the day when some
petty little s#*t like Terry Moran will stand up and say "Mr. President,
don't you think you were a fool to say that......"

When reading a prepared text GW does much better -- still not
"right-at-home", but I don't think it's a major issue. As I've said
elsewhere, we recently had eight years of one of the finest ex-temp speakers
ever to inhabit the WH, thus proving conclusively that the ability to speak
off the cuff does not necessarily bring with it a man of character and
integrity.

Unless you have had occasion to have private, off record conversations with
Mr. Bush, neither of us can resolve this question.

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message

.....You're talking about accents, and I'm talking about grammar.

No, you're missing my point, Doug. You're attributing grammatical or
structural mis-speaks to rank ignorance, but I disagree. I say they
predominantly arise from insecurity and self-consciousness in [mostly]
ex-temp public speaking.

Insecurity? Just the sort of guy I want in charge of an arsenal of nuclear
weapons.


His recent press conference is a case in point. I saw a room full of
professional wordsmiths and stand-up reporters doing their utmost to
embarrass and humiliate the President of the US.

Exactly how were they trying to do that to him?


When reading a prepared text GW does much better -- still not
"right-at-home", but I don't think it's a major issue.

I guess I look at it from the standpoint of an employer, so to me, it IS a
major issue.

As I've said
elsewhere, we recently had eight years of one of the finest ex-temp
speakers
ever to inhabit the WH, thus proving conclusively that the ability to
speak
off the cuff does not necessarily bring with it a man of character and
integrity.

I'm not connecting speaking ability with integrity. I'm connecting it (and
now, your "insecurity" suggestion) with competence. If Nookular Boy
considers a press conference to be a challenge, how will he behave when a
general tears into his office to say a half dozen missiles have been
launched toward the U.S. from someplace on the other side of the world?
Remember - missiles from Russia to here, or vice versa, make the trip in
about 20 minutes. Scary thought, with a president who, based on your
diagnosis, didn't even feel secure speaking to a group of elementary school
kids.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message

Insecurity? Just the sort of guy I want in charge of an arsenal of nuclear
weapons.

Insecurity in public speaking. That's what I said, and you know that. Why
do you deliberately try to alter the frame of discussion? Do you and Harry
come from the same family? Same schools? Same background? Whatever. You
both refuse to stay on track. You alter the clear meaning of posted
statements to make petty points; you insist on using puerile, insulting
terms to refer to the President, and continuously to other posters. These
are Jr. High school tactics. I can't talk to you anymore -- there are
enough adults in this world demanding my attention. Perhaps JohnH can pick
it up. He's accustomed to dealing with pre-teen tactics.

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:33:33 -0400, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message

Insecurity? Just the sort of guy I want in charge of an arsenal of nuclear
weapons.

Insecurity in public speaking. That's what I said, and you know that. Why
do you deliberately try to alter the frame of discussion? Do you and Harry
come from the same family? Same schools? Same background? Whatever. You
both refuse to stay on track. You alter the clear meaning of posted
statements to make petty points; you insist on using puerile, insulting
terms to refer to the President, and continuously to other posters. These
are Jr. High school tactics. I can't talk to you anymore -- there are
enough adults in this world demanding my attention. Perhaps JohnH can pick
it up. He's accustomed to dealing with pre-teen tactics.

I have been trying hard to treat Doug as an adult. Harry is beyond hope. He is
now engaging in another adolescent behavior - making up his own vocabulary and
try to inculcate same into discussions.

It's difficult, and I'll probably give up soon.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message

Insecurity? Just the sort of guy I want in charge of an arsenal of
nuclear
weapons.

Insecurity in public speaking. That's what I said, and you know that.
Why
do you deliberately try to alter the frame of discussion? Do you and
Harry
come from the same family? Same schools? Same background? Whatever.
You
both refuse to stay on track. You alter the clear meaning of posted
statements to make petty points; you insist on using puerile, insulting
terms to refer to the President, and continuously to other posters. These
are Jr. High school tactics. I can't talk to you anymore -- there are
enough adults in this world demanding my attention. Perhaps JohnH can
pick
it up. He's accustomed to dealing with pre-teen tactics.

If I'm afraid to drive over 40mph, would you hire me to fly a private jet?

If I fall apart speaking in front of a 3rd grade classroom, would you hire
me to a public relations guy for your company, to speak to Wall Street
representatives at your stockholder meetings?

Believe it or not, you can extrapolate from one disability and predict a
person's performance in certain situations.

John Gaquin wrote:

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message

Insecurity? Just the sort of guy I want in charge of an arsenal of nuclear
weapons.


Insecurity in public speaking. That's what I said, and you know that.

There's enough been written about Bush to give all of us feelings of
insecurity. The guy is a simple-minded doofus.

"John Gaquin" wrote
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
Insecurity? Just the sort of guy I want in charge of an arsenal of
nuclear
weapons.

Insecurity in public speaking.

There was a time when a man spoke his mind, and his mind was clear.
But those days are long gone.
Lately it has become standard operating procedure for a man to repeat what
he has been told, by many others, whether he believes it or not.
That is why he must read a teleprompter, to keep track of all things he is
supposed to say.
These men of late are hollow, they have no core values. They are easily lead
by others and then are presented as mere mouthpieces, and poor ones they
are.
What we're talking about here is a conscience and an ideal. If a man has
these things he needs no teleprompter for he speaks what he knows rather
than what he has been told.
How anyone can waste their time in a voting booth these days is an enigma to
me.