"Gary Warner" wrote in message ...
"Steve Alexanderson"
Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal
wrote in message news:3f25801c_1@newsfeed...
My condolences as well.
I understand the CG is not enforcing this particular rule, and letting the
skipper decide.

The problem: If the skipper declares a possible hazardous bar and orders
the
jackets be donned, the passengers will wonder why they are spending good
money to put themselves at risk . The other option is to turn back, but
the
skipper has a financial incentive to not make that call. It would be best
to
take the decision away from the skipper and let the authorities declare
when
conditions warrant their use.


Your points about the Captian's motivations are all logical and
valid. Except that, just as with air-line pilots, we assume the
skipper doesn't want to die or be on a sinking vessel either.

Also, if you don't have faith in your Captain (or if your faith is
misplaced) then you've got more problems than just PFDs.

That Captain is responsible for an aweful lot of things. Makes
lots of decisions. You basically either have to agree to put
your life in his/her hands (and mind) or dont go.

First, Thank you all for your condolances. Many of you that have
written in response to my post have written many things I have thought
or talked about. In reference to this particular post: you Gary, have
struck a chord that is worth much debate. On the 17th of June, as my
brother and I were driving back to Spokane from picking up my fathers
remains and personal effects, I spoke with a representative of the
NTSB. This gentleman stated to the effect that the charter fishing
industry is much like the airline industry WAS 20 to 30 years ago.
It took many airliner crashes, and the tremendous loss of life with
that, to initiate change in the laws to create the rigorous safety
standards that are in place today. While comercial airliners still do
crash, the instances are relatively few and far between. Why can't
the charter fishing industry withstand the same type of rigorous
safety laws? I understand that the implications of such laws will
create greater overhead, and thus a smaller bottom line for fishing
charters, but just like airlines did, isn't paying a few more dollars
for a fishing trip worth the added safety? I believe so.

As for the added cost of PFD's going bad through daily use...buy in
bulk. It is much more cost effective. More PFD's equal more jobs.
Might be simplistic, but is one way to look at it.

Again, thank you for your condolances.

This gentleman stated to the effect that the charter fishing
industry is much like the airline industry WAS 20 to 30 years ago.
It took many airliner crashes, and the tremendous loss of life with
that, to initiate change in the laws to create the rigorous safety
standards that are in place today.

Some differences between fishing charters and airline travel are
-- Fishing charters are almost/all for pleasure and thus a choice.
-- Airline travel is often for business. Less choice & more impact on
economy.
-- Size in $$ and people flying is vastly greater than fishing charters.

Still, it's an intersting and poignant point.

It's hard to think about this so coldly knowing of your loss.
I really hope this discussion helps in even the smallest way.

My condolences on your loss. But as to requiring PFD's to be worn at all
times on the water when entering or leaving the harbor, which is what you
are really requiring, is ludicrous. We have had one party boat roll over
and cause drowning in all the years I have been in the SF Bay area (60). It
was not entering or leaving, it was fishing and a wave came out of the West
on a semi-calm day and rolled the boat. Also covered a 60' high rock at
Bodega bay. San Francisco entrance is listed as the 2nd or 3rd most
dangerous entrance on the West Coast. We have had party boats that had to
be rescued but not in the entrance, but from a mechanical failure, or a hole
in the boat. Private boats should be allowed to make their own rules
regards wearing of PFD's. Personnel responsibility. Sure it costs the
people to find their bodies or recue them, but they pay taxes just like all
the others. Now you want to reqire PFD's all the time. How many commercial
party boats have sunk in the last 50 years going through your inlet?
Bill

"Carl" wrote in message
om...
"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...
"Steve Alexanderson"

Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal
wrote in message news:3f25801c_1@newsfeed...
My condolences as well.
I understand the CG is not enforcing this particular rule, and letting
the
skipper decide.

The problem: If the skipper declares a possible hazardous bar and
orders
the
jackets be donned, the passengers will wonder why they are spending
good
money to put themselves at risk . The other option is to turn back,
but
the
skipper has a financial incentive to not make that call. It would be
best
to
take the decision away from the skipper and let the authorities
declare
when
conditions warrant their use.


Your points about the Captian's motivations are all logical and
valid. Except that, just as with air-line pilots, we assume the
skipper doesn't want to die or be on a sinking vessel either.

Also, if you don't have faith in your Captain (or if your faith is
misplaced) then you've got more problems than just PFDs.

That Captain is responsible for an aweful lot of things. Makes
lots of decisions. You basically either have to agree to put
your life in his/her hands (and mind) or dont go.

First, Thank you all for your condolances. Many of you that have
written in response to my post have written many things I have thought
or talked about. In reference to this particular post: you Gary, have
struck a chord that is worth much debate. On the 17th of June, as my
brother and I were driving back to Spokane from picking up my fathers
remains and personal effects, I spoke with a representative of the
NTSB. This gentleman stated to the effect that the charter fishing
industry is much like the airline industry WAS 20 to 30 years ago.
It took many airliner crashes, and the tremendous loss of life with
that, to initiate change in the laws to create the rigorous safety
standards that are in place today. While comercial airliners still do
crash, the instances are relatively few and far between. Why can't
the charter fishing industry withstand the same type of rigorous
safety laws? I understand that the implications of such laws will
create greater overhead, and thus a smaller bottom line for fishing
charters, but just like airlines did, isn't paying a few more dollars
for a fishing trip worth the added safety? I believe so.

As for the added cost of PFD's going bad through daily use...buy in
bulk. It is much more cost effective. More PFD's equal more jobs.
Might be simplistic, but is one way to look at it.

Again, thank you for your condolances.