"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


Let's make this simple, Dave. There are only two kinds of property:
Yours,
and someone else's. If the dog ****s or destroys things on your property,
that's fine. If the dog leaves your property and ****s/destroys, it's
doing
so on someone else's property. Now, please explain how any dog owner can
see
his dog leave his property and say "I didn't know it was going to mess up
someone else's property".


Ok, if we stick to your binary view of property, you are either on
your property or someone else's. When you leave your property, am I to
assume that you are intending to damage someone else's property?

Don't say stupid things. We're talking about a dog, not a person.


Assuming that a dog owner knows that the dog has left his property
(And many don't), while you may assume that they may mark some
territory along the way, many times they roam just to roam.
You seem to harbor this notion that dogs do nothing but destroy
things. A notion brought about from your hatred of dogs, no doubt.

Right. And nobody would look at a naked lady in the park. Dave...we're
talking about dogs, not cartoons. I have NEVER seen a dog wandering off its
leash without lifting its leg at least once or twice on someone's property.
It's not much of a stretch to assume that if that same dog doesn't **** on
someone's property today, it'll do so tomorrow.

As far the the owner not knowing that the dog left the property, forget that
nonsense. When we finally got a real dog catcher who was good at seeing
through peoples' excuses, I stood and watched as he warned a dog owner NEVER
to try that line on him again. Then, he took her dog away. I went home and
celebrated with a beer.

Incidentally, whatever television judge you base your ideas on would've also
slammed a dog owner for saying "I didn't know....". That's an insult to
anyone's intelligence.


Of course in reality, there are places where property is either public
or government owned. Not all property is private.

Great. So, it's OK for dogs to crap on a public sidewalk, where, if you're
out walking at night, the crap blends in with bits of wet leaves?
Oh..wait...I know your answer: Normal people don't go for walks at night.

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:51:22 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

The question I have is a simple one. Do you respect the system of laws
which govern our society, or do you believe that you are justified in
taking matters into your own hands?

Dave

Which part of "the law" do you not understand? Here, the law states that
in
certain instances, an animal may be killed by a landowner. Period. If the
conditions are met, it can be done.

I suspect that those "conditions" do not extend to inadvertent digging
in some one's yard.

The moment that digging destroys vegetable seedlings, the conditions have
been met.

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...


If you have a dog, when it goes outside, it should be on a leash and you
should pick up after it, or, it should be on a run in *your* yard.

Normally yes. But dogs do get loose on occasion

We're not talking about "on occasion", Dave. We're talking about repeat
offenders, with owners who thumb their noses at the rest of the world.


Because **** happens? And it goes away in a few weeks.

So would a trash bag full of vegetable scraps. Would it be OK if I dumped
mine all over your lawn, driveway and the hood of your car every day? I have
more than enough compost. I want you to have some, too. Sorry if the color
of the orange & grapefruit rinds clashes with your lawn and the coffee
grounds go into the vent intakes of your car.

Doug,
Why do you think they have small claims court? In case you are not familiar
it is so people will not take the law into their own hands.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:41:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:07:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:Fxgic.13266$_L6.1028222@attbi_s53...
Nope, I do not believe in Anarchy, I believe in a society governed
by
laws
to protect my family from people like you.

When the system protects people whose animals destroy property, is
that
not
anarchy?

Maybe they just feel that you're one of those perpetually belligerent
A-holes who does nothing but complain about trivial matters, and
respond accordingly. Maybe they're waiting to catch you taking the
law
into your own hands so they can come and cart you off to a place
where
no one has to hear you complain again.

Trivial? Not to me, or anyone else who puts hundreds of hours worth of
work
into a garden. Who are YOU to tell other people what's trivial? What if
you
collected classic cars, spent hours restoring and waxing them, and my
cat
jumped on them constantly and scratched them? Would that be trivial to
you?


No, not to me, but it probably would be for the cops, and that's the
whole point. What little "hobbies" you and I may have, are trivial
when put into perspective of the real problems in society.

Hey....now we're getting somewhere. What if my cat did what I mentioned,
the
cops were to busy or uninterested to help, the animal control guy was an
idiot, and when you spoke to me about the problem, I said "Go ****
yourself - it's just a few scratches". Assume this went on for a month or
two. What would YOU do? Explore your dark side. We all have one. Be honest
for once in your life, Dave. What would you REALLY do?

Great. You get paid for the damage, but the animal still exists, as does its
owner. No, John. The Good Way is to "vanish" the animal. Not a big scene -
just "vanish". Quietly.

As I asked elsewhere in this thread: "Dog? What dog?"

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:VhPjc.36185$0u6.6217364@attbi_s03...
Doug,
Why do you think they have small claims court? In case you are not
familiar
it is so people will not take the law into their own hands.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:41:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:07:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:Fxgic.13266$_L6.1028222@attbi_s53...
Nope, I do not believe in Anarchy, I believe in a society
governed
by
laws
to protect my family from people like you.

When the system protects people whose animals destroy property, is
that
not
anarchy?

Maybe they just feel that you're one of those perpetually
belligerent
A-holes who does nothing but complain about trivial matters, and
respond accordingly. Maybe they're waiting to catch you taking the
law
into your own hands so they can come and cart you off to a place
where
no one has to hear you complain again.

Trivial? Not to me, or anyone else who puts hundreds of hours worth
of
work
into a garden. Who are YOU to tell other people what's trivial? What
if
you
collected classic cars, spent hours restoring and waxing them, and my
cat
jumped on them constantly and scratched them? Would that be trivial
to
you?


No, not to me, but it probably would be for the cops, and that's the
whole point. What little "hobbies" you and I may have, are trivial
when put into perspective of the real problems in society.

Hey....now we're getting somewhere. What if my cat did what I mentioned,
the
cops were to busy or uninterested to help, the animal control guy was an
idiot, and when you spoke to me about the problem, I said "Go ****
yourself - it's just a few scratches". Assume this went on for a month
or
two. What would YOU do? Explore your dark side. We all have one. Be
honest
for once in your life, Dave. What would you REALLY do?

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:39:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:41:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:07:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:Fxgic.13266$_L6.1028222@attbi_s53...
Nope, I do not believe in Anarchy, I believe in a society governed
by
laws
to protect my family from people like you.

When the system protects people whose animals destroy property, is
that
not
anarchy?

Maybe they just feel that you're one of those perpetually belligerent
A-holes who does nothing but complain about trivial matters, and
respond accordingly. Maybe they're waiting to catch you taking the law
into your own hands so they can come and cart you off to a place where
no one has to hear you complain again.

Trivial? Not to me, or anyone else who puts hundreds of hours worth of
work
into a garden. Who are YOU to tell other people what's trivial? What if
you
collected classic cars, spent hours restoring and waxing them, and my cat
jumped on them constantly and scratched them? Would that be trivial to
you?


No, not to me, but it probably would be for the cops, and that's the
whole point. What little "hobbies" you and I may have, are trivial
when put into perspective of the real problems in society.

Hey....now we're getting somewhere. What if my cat did what I mentioned, the
cops were to busy or uninterested to help, the animal control guy was an
idiot, and when you spoke to me about the problem, I said "Go ****
yourself - it's just a few scratches". Assume this went on for a month or
two. What would YOU do? Explore your dark side. We all have one. Be honest
for once in your life, Dave. What would you REALLY do?


Couldn't resist jumping in here, 'cause this actually happened to me. The car
was a brand new Saab. I trapped the cat and took it to the animal shelter. Told
them the story. They wanted to know only the street the cat came from. I never
saw the cat again. The owner must not have been concerned as she would have only
had to call the animal shelter to get her cat back.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:39:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:41:19 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:07:08 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
news:Fxgic.13266$_L6.1028222@attbi_s53...
Nope, I do not believe in Anarchy, I believe in a society
governed
by
laws
to protect my family from people like you.

When the system protects people whose animals destroy property, is
that
not
anarchy?

Maybe they just feel that you're one of those perpetually
belligerent
A-holes who does nothing but complain about trivial matters, and
respond accordingly. Maybe they're waiting to catch you taking the
law
into your own hands so they can come and cart you off to a place
where
no one has to hear you complain again.

Trivial? Not to me, or anyone else who puts hundreds of hours worth of
work
into a garden. Who are YOU to tell other people what's trivial? What
if
you
collected classic cars, spent hours restoring and waxing them, and my
cat
jumped on them constantly and scratched them? Would that be trivial to
you?


No, not to me, but it probably would be for the cops, and that's the
whole point. What little "hobbies" you and I may have, are trivial
when put into perspective of the real problems in society.

Hey....now we're getting somewhere. What if my cat did what I mentioned,
the
cops were to busy or uninterested to help, the animal control guy was an
idiot, and when you spoke to me about the problem, I said "Go ****
yourself - it's just a few scratches". Assume this went on for a month or
two. What would YOU do? Explore your dark side. We all have one. Be
honest
for once in your life, Dave. What would you REALLY do?


Couldn't resist jumping in here, 'cause this actually happened to me. The
car
was a brand new Saab. I trapped the cat and took it to the animal shelter.
Told
them the story. They wanted to know only the street the cat came from. I
never
saw the cat again. The owner must not have been concerned as she would
have only
had to call the animal shelter to get her cat back.

John H

Two questions:
1) What kind of bait did you use?
2) "Where there's smoke, there's a SAAB". The Car Talk guys on NPR love that
line. Is it true?

Couldn't resist jumping in here, 'cause this actually happened to me. The car
was a brand new Saab. I trapped the cat and took it to the animal shelter.
Told
them the story. They wanted to know only the street the cat came from. I
never
saw the cat again. The owner must not have been concerned as she would have
only
had to call the animal shelter to get her cat back.

What's the big deal? Just another instance of loose pussy in MD.

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:36:23 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

YOU have no say at all in how I conduct my life and that galls you
something
fierce.

Sorry to have to tell you this, but despite your feelings to the
contrary, in any civilized society there are laws which you are
obligated to follow, irrespective of your anarchistic and nihilistic
nature. The reality of this would seem to "gall" you.

Aren't you the same guy who has said, at least 12 million times

12 million and 1, but who's counting?

in the past,
that there are too many laws, and that personal responsibility, if taught
correctly, would obviate the need for more laws?

In theory that would be true. But you and I both know that there are
too many people in the world who do not rise to the occasion when it
comes to personal responsibility. That being said, I am of the mindset
where laws should be basic and based on moral grounds. Things like
killing, theft,and rape should be clearly defined. I have my biggest
problem with "social lifestyle" and "nuisance" laws, which attempt to
define acceptable behavior according to (supposedly) a majority of the
members of society, despite the overtly subjective value judgement of
the activity in question


Why is it, then, that a
place like NYC finally instituted a scooper law, and began busting people
who let their dogs crap right on the sidewalk and then left it there? We're
talking about dogs on a leash, with their owners watching.

I dispute the value of those laws. They make no sense in places like
where I live. It's supposed to be some big health threat to leave dog
poop on the curb or adjacent lawn, but any number of native wildlife
species have carte blanche access to do the same. Another example of
not seeing the forest for the trees. On the other hand, in a concrete
jungle, it probably makes better sense.


You seem to enjoy using the law to support your arguments as long as the
laws in question have no effect on you.

No, that's not it at all. I respect most laws as they are. I am not
the anarchist here. I am rarely on the wrong side of the law on these
issues. On those laws with which I am odds with, I have no problem
with lobbying for change.

Dave

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:31:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

You bemoan "inconsiderate" neighbors, who may be guilty of some degree
of negligence, but "retaliate" against them with an equally
inconsiderate response. I'm sorry but you will never convince me that
you are morally or legally authorized to terminate the life of another
living being no matter what "damage" or inconvenience they may have
caused you. There are proper channels to seek out compensation or
retribution for these acts. That these proper channels are not "good
enough" for you is not our problem.

Dave

So, you're a vegetarian?

Relevance?

You said "....you will never convince me that you are morally or legally
authorized to terminate the life of another living being no matter what
"damage" or inconvenience they may have caused you."

You do that every time you eat meat.


Irrelevant. Totally unrelated circumstance. Are you planning to eat
your neighbor's dog?

Dave