Much Like lawyers, its easy to tell when a recruiter is lying...... thier
mouths are moving.
Never trust a recruiter or a lawyer...common sense tells you that.


"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...

channelcincinnati.com

Military Recruiters Lie About Dangers In Iraq
Army To Suspend Recruiting For Retraining Following Target 5 Investigation

CINCINNATI -- This is the text of WLWT's report exactly as it appeared on
the 11 p.m. newscast on May 18, 2005:

Announcer: "An explosive Target 5 investigation. Our hidden cameras catch
military recruiters making the Tri-state sound more dangerous than Iraq."

Video: Watch Dave Wagner's Report

Recruiter: "You've got more chance of dying over here than you do over
there."

Announcer: "So, why are Tri-state recruits ready to risk their lives not
getting honest answers?"

Anchor: "The problem is so bad the military is planning a nationwide
stand-down day. That means this Friday the Army won't do any recruiting.
Why? ecruiters using outrageous tactics to get your son or daughter to
enlist.

"You won't believe how bad the problem is.

"Dave Wagner has the shocking Target 5 investigation."

Dave Wagner: "Each day, thousands of American teenagers consider the
merits of military service, young men and women willing to wear a uniform
and put their lives on the line. Tonight, a revealing look at what goes on
when teenagers go behind closed doors with Tri-state military recruiters.
In a startling number of cases, it's high pressure, false statements and
'Conduct Unbecoming.'"

Bill Fisher, retired Army recruiter: "Their job is to call you and try to
get your interest sparked."

Recruiter: "I'm not trying to do a sales pitch."

Wagner: "In the world of sale, every pitch has a price."

Fisher: "I think with honesty and integrity you can fill any quota."

Wagner: "In the land of a free-market economy, facts can get in the way of
a good prospect."

Recruiter: "You have more chance of dying here in the United States."

Wagner: "Even when the pitchman is in uniform."

Fisher: "It's insane. That's ludicrous. You just don't do that."

Larry Clock: "My name is Larry Clock and I'm a senior."

Wagner: "They are the fresh faces of our future."

Adrienne Morrison. "I'm a senior."

Wagner: "High school seniors in the prime of their lives."

Morrison: "I've received phone calls, letters in the mail."

Wagner: "Kids in the crosshairs of U.S. military recruiters."

Fisher: "In recruiting throughout all the branches, they're looking for
the good students, the ones that you consider the good students in high
school."

Fisher: "I'm Bill Fisher. I'm a retired master sergeant with the United
States Army. I recruited for 13 years. Yea, I'll talk to anybody."

Wagner: "These days, it's a lot easier talking to high school students
because military recruiters have easier access to your kids. As part of
the No Child Left Behind Act, all schools that receive federal funding,
and nearly all of them do, are required to give military recruiters access
to your child's name, address and phone number."

Fisher: "From a recruiting standpoint, that's a great thing because a lot
of people we couldn't get numbers to actually tell the Army story or the
armed forces story we now can."

Recruiter: "I'm not trying to do a sales pitch."

Wagner: "But as Target 5 discovered, those military pitches can turn from
fact to fiction in a matter of seconds. Target 5 sent four young men, with
hidden cameras, into every Tri-state armed forces recruiting center. The
conversations began with talk of job security."

Recruiter: "We guarantee you a job."

Wagner: "Signing bonuses."

Recruiter: "Up to $20,000."

Wagner: "And cash for college."

Recruiter: "Up to $70,000 for college."

Wagner: "But when the questions turn to safety, some Tri-state recruiters
make Iraq sound more like a trip to Tahiti than a journey to war."

Recruiter: "You have more chance of dying here in the United States at,
what is it, 36-percent die, kill rate here in the United States, people
here just dying left and right, you have more chance of dying over here
than you do over there."

Wagner: "The U.S. does not have a 36-percent kill rate. If that were true,
more than 100 million people, one-third of the U.S. population, would be
killed each year."

Fisher: "To just openly not tell the truth, to push it aside, that's just
wrong."

Wagner: "Back at the recruiting center."

Recruiter: "The way I am, I'm a no-bull type of guy."

Wagner: "But you'd never know that based upon what he tells our young
recruit."

Recruiter: "If you get on the Internet and look up how many deaths are in
Columbia, S.C., in the past year, year and a half, and then compare that
to how many deaths there are in Iraq, there's more deaths going on in
Columbia, S.C., for no reason, none, over a pair of Nikes, over a jacket,
people stealing people's wallets, shooting people. There's more deaths
going on in Columbia, S.C. -- I know, I just got back from there -- than
there was in the whole time when I was in Iraq."

Wagner: "So Target 5 called the Columbia, S.C., police department, and
despite the words of our Tri-state recruit, this city is hardly a hotbed
for crime."

Sgt. Thomas Thomas of Columbia, S.C., police department: "There were 16
homicides in the city of Columbia in 2004. This year to date we have five
in the city."

Wagner: "And if that recruiter thinks Columbia, S.C., listen to what this
GI Joe Isuzu says about the danger of driving around Dayton, Ohio."

Recruiter: "Dayton area alone, which is about four or five counties,
Dayton area alone, 1,500 people died in two weeks. You know what that was
from? Car wrecks. Those numbers that we get, we get from the actual
highway patrol. So, I mean, all that stuff's factual. So, you look at that
way. We've lost 1,500 soldiers so far over in Iraq. We've been over there
for three years. If you add it together, 1,500 people died in five
counties alone within two weeks, just from car wrecks."

Wagner: "The truth is, there aren't 1,500 deaths from car wrecks in the
entire state of Ohio for an entire year."

Fisher: "Conduct unbecoming a non-commissioned officer is what those
statements are. I don't know where he came up with it. It's just insane.
Yea, yea, he could be your car salesman of the Isuzu."

Wagner: "The national spokesman for the Army recruiting command at Fort
Knox tells Target 5: "I don't know why anybody would even let that phrase
even come out of their mouth. For whatever reasons, these recruiters must
have found these talking points somewhere on their own. I don't know."

Wagner: "Do you think that in the private conversations they're having
with recruits here, that they're thinking, no one will ever check this, no
one will ever know?"

Fisher: "I'm sure that anyone who could tell that, I'm sure that's exactly
what they're thinking."

Wagner: "Still to come, the pressure to fill quotas, the pressure put on
recruits, more tall tales and the immediate action the military has taken
in response to our Target 5 investigation.

"Now, more of our Target 5 investigation into Tri-state military
recruiters offering big bonuses and tall tales to Tri-state teenagers.

"Since the war began, about 1,500 U.S. servicemen and women have been
killed in Iraq. The violence has made military recruiting more difficult,
often because parents worry about their kids' safety. But recruiters are
tracking down teens when parents aren't around, and the pressure can be
immense. As we continue our Target 5 investigation, 'Conduct Unbecoming.'"

Wagner (in Milford High School classroom): "How many of you have been
approached by a military recruiter in the past year?"

(Several students raise hands).

Wagner: "In Mr. Jewell's American government class …"

Student: "I think they're really biased."

Wagner: "Students are talking about military recruiters."

Student: "A recruiter called me up and told me they got a new deal going
on, $5,000 to enlist now for the Army."

Student: "I was told that if I signed up for the Marines they'd give me a
$10,000 signing bonus on the spot. I didn't believe that one."

Wagner: "Signing bonuses and college cash are being used to attract fresh
faces to the armed forces. But Army recruiters have missed their quotas
for the past three months; the Marines, short of their goal for the past
four months. When this high school senior says his parents are concerned
about his safety in the military, this recruiter puts on the full-court
press."

Recruiter: "Don't hesitate. Don't leave me hanging. Even if they really
don't want to talk about it, we can still sit down and talk, all right?
Because by you walking in here, that shows that you're interested, and I'd
hate for you to be denied this United States Army opportunity. Honestly."

Fisher: "Recruiters are supposed to be at the top of their career field
throughout the United States, the best infantry, the best cooks, the best
medical technicians, the best, the people you want to represent your
service. These are the ones you bring out on recruiting day.

"There are some soldiers who are great soldiers but pitiful salesman."

Recruiter: "Of course, the news media is going to blow it way out of
proportion."

Wagner: "While some recruiters blame the media for hyping the danger in
Iraq, this recruiter, who served on the front lines, has a more
straightforward approach."

Student: "I'm curious about how dangerous it really is over there, because
in the news and everything people are dying."

Recruiter: "Yea, it's war, you know?"

Wagner: "This week in the Tri-state the realties of war are tragically
clear, another goodbye for two young men who fought and died. early a
third of those killed in Iraq are under the age of 22, the vast majority
from the Army and Marine Corps, 111 of them from Ohio, Indiana, and
Kentucky. As a country honors their sacrifice, these high school seniors
get ready for their military service with a sendoff and straight talk from
their local congressman."

Rep. Steve Chabot: "We need to make sure that those kids who are
considering a military career get the true facts. They're great young men
and women, they're serving their country or will be in the near future,
and we ought to be honest with them. We ought to let the kids know the
truth and what's really happening. And there's no question, that Iraq can
be a dangerous place."

Recruiter: "I was watching the news the other day. In Cincinnati alone, as
of April, there were 867 deaths in Cincinnati."

Wagner: "While some recruiters play it loose with the facts."

Recruiter: "Eighty-eight people over there have died from gunshot wounds."

Wagner: "Bill Fisher says it worked for him to play it straight."

Fisher: "We have like the greatest armed forces in the world right now.
The kids are just fantastic. And to sit back and say something like this
is just silly. You don't need to. You don't have to sway them by innuendos
or lies. You just have to search for those who want to join, and there are
tons of them."

Recruiter: "I can at least provide you with honest answers. OK? I can be
the Honest Abe around the corner."

Wagner: "Tonight the spokesman for the U.S. Army recruiting command at
Fort Knox say he believes the recruiters aren't deliberately making false
statements.

"This Friday, Army recruiting will be suspended nationwide so recruiters
can be retrained, and Target 5 is assured all recruiters will be told to
stop making these statements without evidence to back them up."

Copyright 2005 by ChannelCincinnati.com. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
channelcincinnati.com
Military Recruiters Lie About Dangers In Iraq
Army To Suspend Recruiting For Retraining Following Target 5 Investigation
CINCINNATI -- This is the text of WLWT's report exactly as it appeared on
the 11 p.m. newscast on May 18, 2005:

Announcer: "An explosive Target 5 investigation. Our hidden cameras catch
military recruiters making the Tri-state sound more dangerous than Iraq."

Video: Watch Dave Wagner's Report

Recruiter: "You've got more chance of dying over here than you do over
there."

Announcer: "So, why are Tri-state recruits ready to risk their lives not
getting honest answers?"

Anchor: "The problem is so bad the military is planning a nationwide
stand-down day. That means this Friday the Army won't do any recruiting.
Why? ecruiters using outrageous tactics to get your son or daughter to
enlist.

"You won't believe how bad the problem is.

"Dave Wagner has the shocking Target 5 investigation."

Dave Wagner: "Each day, thousands of American teenagers consider the
merits of military service, young men and women willing to wear a uniform
and put their lives on the line. Tonight, a revealing look at what goes on
when teenagers go behind closed doors with Tri-state military recruiters.
In a startling number of cases, it's high pressure, false statements and
'Conduct Unbecoming.'"

Bill Fisher, retired Army recruiter: "Their job is to call you and try to
get your interest sparked."

Recruiter: "I'm not trying to do a sales pitch."

Wagner: "In the world of sale, every pitch has a price."

Fisher: "I think with honesty and integrity you can fill any quota."

Wagner: "In the land of a free-market economy, facts can get in the way of
a good prospect."

Recruiter: "You have more chance of dying here in the United States."

Wagner: "Even when the pitchman is in uniform."

Fisher: "It's insane. That's ludicrous. You just don't do that."

Larry Clock: "My name is Larry Clock and I'm a senior."

Wagner: "They are the fresh faces of our future."

Adrienne Morrison. "I'm a senior."

Wagner: "High school seniors in the prime of their lives."

Morrison: "I've received phone calls, letters in the mail."

Wagner: "Kids in the crosshairs of U.S. military recruiters."

Fisher: "In recruiting throughout all the branches, they're looking for
the good students, the ones that you consider the good students in high
school."

Fisher: "I'm Bill Fisher. I'm a retired master sergeant with the United
States Army. I recruited for 13 years. Yea, I'll talk to anybody."

Wagner: "These days, it's a lot easier talking to high school students
because military recruiters have easier access to your kids. As part of
the No Child Left Behind Act, all schools that receive federal funding,
and nearly all of them do, are required to give military recruiters access
to your child's name, address and phone number."

Fisher: "From a recruiting standpoint, that's a great thing because a lot
of people we couldn't get numbers to actually tell the Army story or the
armed forces story we now can."

Recruiter: "I'm not trying to do a sales pitch."

Wagner: "But as Target 5 discovered, those military pitches can turn from
fact to fiction in a matter of seconds. Target 5 sent four young men, with
hidden cameras, into every Tri-state armed forces recruiting center. The
conversations began with talk of job security."

Recruiter: "We guarantee you a job."

Wagner: "Signing bonuses."

Recruiter: "Up to $20,000."

Wagner: "And cash for college."

Recruiter: "Up to $70,000 for college."

Wagner: "But when the questions turn to safety, some Tri-state recruiters
make Iraq sound more like a trip to Tahiti than a journey to war."

Recruiter: "You have more chance of dying here in the United States at,
what is it, 36-percent die, kill rate here in the United States, people
here just dying left and right, you have more chance of dying over here
than you do over there."

Wagner: "The U.S. does not have a 36-percent kill rate. If that were true,
more than 100 million people, one-third of the U.S. population, would be
killed each year."

Fisher: "To just openly not tell the truth, to push it aside, that's just
wrong."

Wagner: "Back at the recruiting center."

Recruiter: "The way I am, I'm a no-bull type of guy."

Wagner: "But you'd never know that based upon what he tells our young
recruit."

Recruiter: "If you get on the Internet and look up how many deaths are in
Columbia, S.C., in the past year, year and a half, and then compare that
to how many deaths there are in Iraq, there's more deaths going on in
Columbia, S.C., for no reason, none, over a pair of Nikes, over a jacket,
people stealing people's wallets, shooting people. There's more deaths
going on in Columbia, S.C. -- I know, I just got back from there -- than
there was in the whole time when I was in Iraq."

Wagner: "So Target 5 called the Columbia, S.C., police department, and
despite the words of our Tri-state recruit, this city is hardly a hotbed
for crime."

Sgt. Thomas Thomas of Columbia, S.C., police department: "There were 16
homicides in the city of Columbia in 2004. This year to date we have five
in the city."

Wagner: "And if that recruiter thinks Columbia, S.C., listen to what this
GI Joe Isuzu says about the danger of driving around Dayton, Ohio."

Recruiter: "Dayton area alone, which is about four or five counties,
Dayton area alone, 1,500 people died in two weeks. You know what that was
from? Car wrecks. Those numbers that we get, we get from the actual
highway patrol. So, I mean, all that stuff's factual. So, you look at that
way. We've lost 1,500 soldiers so far over in Iraq. We've been over there
for three years. If you add it together, 1,500 people died in five
counties alone within two weeks, just from car wrecks."

Wagner: "The truth is, there aren't 1,500 deaths from car wrecks in the
entire state of Ohio for an entire year."

Fisher: "Conduct unbecoming a non-commissioned officer is what those
statements are. I don't know where he came up with it. It's just insane.
Yea, yea, he could be your car salesman of the Isuzu."

Wagner: "The national spokesman for the Army recruiting command at Fort
Knox tells Target 5: "I don't know why anybody would even let that phrase
even come out of their mouth. For whatever reasons, these recruiters must
have found these talking points somewhere on their own. I don't know."

Wagner: "Do you think that in the private conversations they're having
with recruits here, that they're thinking, no one will ever check this, no
one will ever know?"

Fisher: "I'm sure that anyone who could tell that, I'm sure that's exactly
what they're thinking."

Wagner: "Still to come, the pressure to fill quotas, the pressure put on
recruits, more tall tales and the immediate action the military has taken
in response to our Target 5 investigation.

"Now, more of our Target 5 investigation into Tri-state military
recruiters offering big bonuses and tall tales to Tri-state teenagers.

"Since the war began, about 1,500 U.S. servicemen and women have been
killed in Iraq. The violence has made military recruiting more difficult,
often because parents worry about their kids' safety. But recruiters are
tracking down teens when parents aren't around, and the pressure can be
immense. As we continue our Target 5 investigation, 'Conduct Unbecoming.'"

Wagner (in Milford High School classroom): "How many of you have been
approached by a military recruiter in the past year?"

(Several students raise hands).

Wagner: "In Mr. Jewell's American government class …"

Student: "I think they're really biased."

Wagner: "Students are talking about military recruiters."

Student: "A recruiter called me up and told me they got a new deal going
on, $5,000 to enlist now for the Army."

Student: "I was told that if I signed up for the Marines they'd give me a
$10,000 signing bonus on the spot. I didn't believe that one."

Wagner: "Signing bonuses and college cash are being used to attract fresh
faces to the armed forces. But Army recruiters have missed their quotas
for the past three months; the Marines, short of their goal for the past
four months. When this high school senior says his parents are concerned
about his safety in the military, this recruiter puts on the full-court
press."

Recruiter: "Don't hesitate. Don't leave me hanging. Even if they really
don't want to talk about it, we can still sit down and talk, all right?
Because by you walking in here, that shows that you're interested, and I'd
hate for you to be denied this United States Army opportunity. Honestly."

Fisher: "Recruiters are supposed to be at the top of their career field
throughout the United States, the best infantry, the best cooks, the best
medical technicians, the best, the people you want to represent your
service. These are the ones you bring out on recruiting day.

"There are some soldiers who are great soldiers but pitiful salesman."

Recruiter: "Of course, the news media is going to blow it way out of
proportion."

Wagner: "While some recruiters blame the media for hyping the danger in
Iraq, this recruiter, who served on the front lines, has a more
straightforward approach."

Student: "I'm curious about how dangerous it really is over there, because
in the news and everything people are dying."

Recruiter: "Yea, it's war, you know?"

Wagner: "This week in the Tri-state the realties of war are tragically
clear, another goodbye for two young men who fought and died. early a
third of those killed in Iraq are under the age of 22, the vast majority
from the Army and Marine Corps, 111 of them from Ohio, Indiana, and
Kentucky. As a country honors their sacrifice, these high school seniors
get ready for their military service with a sendoff and straight talk from
their local congressman."

Rep. Steve Chabot: "We need to make sure that those kids who are
considering a military career get the true facts. They're great young men
and women, they're serving their country or will be in the near future,
and we ought to be honest with them. We ought to let the kids know the
truth and what's really happening. And there's no question, that Iraq can
be a dangerous place."

Recruiter: "I was watching the news the other day. In Cincinnati alone, as
of April, there were 867 deaths in Cincinnati."

Wagner: "While some recruiters play it loose with the facts."

Recruiter: "Eighty-eight people over there have died from gunshot wounds."

Wagner: "Bill Fisher says it worked for him to play it straight."

Fisher: "We have like the greatest armed forces in the world right now.
The kids are just fantastic. And to sit back and say something like this
is just silly. You don't need to. You don't have to sway them by innuendos
or lies. You just have to search for those who want to join, and there are
tons of them."

Recruiter: "I can at least provide you with honest answers. OK? I can be
the Honest Abe around the corner."

Wagner: "Tonight the spokesman for the U.S. Army recruiting command at
Fort Knox say he believes the recruiters aren't deliberately making false
statements.

"This Friday, Army recruiting will be suspended nationwide so recruiters
can be retrained, and Target 5 is assured all recruiters will be told to
stop making these statements without evidence to back them up."

Copyright 2005 by ChannelCincinnati.com. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
--
If it is Bad for Bush,
It is Good for the United States.

"HarryKrause" wrote in message
...

Recruiters ought to be restricted to specific promises they put on paper
and an officer signs. If the military doesn't keep its word, then the
"recruit" ought to be offered an immediate release.

Harry I will go you even one further.... The new contracts allow for a 15
month active duty term instead of the previous minimim of 24 months. The
government should be held to the contract for the lenght of service. None
of this you signed for this long but we can extend your service to this
simply because we like you. A contract is a contract and both parties
should be held responible. Which also means the recruit should read that
contract with a fine tooth comb and make sure it is what he specifies.
Remember if you sign on to become a helicopter pilot and fail to make the
grade.... you are not released from your contract, the army will just find a
new job for you to spend you enlistment time.

"HarryKrause" wrote


Copyright 2005 by ChannelCincinnati.com. All rights reserved. This material
may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


Copyright laws don't apply to Harry?

Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message k.net...

"HarryKrause" wrote


Copyright 2005 by ChannelCincinnati.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
redistributed.


Copyright laws don't apply to Harry?

Hans, K0HB


Humanity doesn't apply to Harry!

CN

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:31:06 -0400, Capt. Neal® wrote:


"KØHB" wrote in message k.net...

"HarryKrause" wrote


Copyright 2005 by ChannelCincinnati.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
redistributed.


Copyright laws don't apply to Harry?

Hans, K0HB


Humanity doesn't apply to Harry!

CN

That kind of behavior does not contribute to group harmony. You were very
insensitive there.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."