On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:33 -0400, NOYB wrote:


The Chinese were neck-deep in things from the beginning. China gave its
blessings for the start of the war to Kim, and then supplied the North
Koreans during the early months of the war. They were an active
participant from the very beginning. MacArthur wanted to hit supply
depots in China, and Truman refused. Yes, MacArthur pushed north to the
Yalu, but it was against Truman's orders. That's why I said that
"Truman didn't allow MacArthur to push past the 38th". Six months
later, MacArthur was removed from command.

Not quite. Truman's orders to MacArthur:
"Your military objective is the
destruction of the North Korean armed forces. In attaining this objective
you are authorized to conduct military operations, including amphibious
and airborne landings or ground operations north of the 38th Parallel in
Korea, provided that at the time of such operations there has been no
entry into North Korea by major Soviet or Chinese Communist Forces, no
announcement of intended entry, nor a threat to counter our operations
militarily in North Korea. Under no circumstances, however, will your
forces cross the Manchurian or USSR borders of Korea" - Gen. Bradley,
Chairman, US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Sept.27, 1950.

Truman decided that it would be better to reach a stalemate than risk a
larger war with either China or the Soviet Union, or both. MacArthur
thought that he was already fighting the Chinese and Truman was tying his
hands. It's unclear what the world would look like today if MacArthur's
voice was listened to, but Truman's precedent of limited war is still with
us.

LOL? The reference to the 17th parallel had to do with my discussion
with Doug about Vietnam. Korea didn't have a "17th parallel". That
should have been your first clue.

Yup, my mistake. I did catch it, and tried to supersede the post, but .
.. .


And the B-52 was very much in our inventory during the Vietnam war.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:33 -0400, NOYB wrote:


The Chinese were neck-deep in things from the beginning. China gave its
blessings for the start of the war to Kim, and then supplied the North
Koreans during the early months of the war. They were an active
participant from the very beginning. MacArthur wanted to hit supply
depots in China, and Truman refused. Yes, MacArthur pushed north to the
Yalu, but it was against Truman's orders. That's why I said that
"Truman didn't allow MacArthur to push past the 38th". Six months
later, MacArthur was removed from command.

Not quite. Truman's orders to MacArthur:
"Your military objective is the
destruction of the North Korean armed forces. In attaining this objective
you are authorized to conduct military operations, including amphibious
and airborne landings or ground operations north of the 38th Parallel in
Korea, provided that at the time of such operations there has been no
entry into North Korea by major Soviet or Chinese Communist Forces,
no announcement of intended entry, nor a threat to counter our operations
militarily in North Korea.

This is where MacArthur felt that things were up for interpretation. He
knew that US forces were facing Soviet fighter jets and pilots, and Soviet
"advised" N. Korean forces. He also knew that the Soviets and Chinese
were supplying the N. Koreans. He also knew that both the Chinese and
Soviets were ready to counter any move by Allied forces into North Korea.
By MacArthur's interpretation, we were already at war with the Soviets and
Chinese. Ergo, according to his orders he probably shouldn't have moved
north of the 38th Parallel, but did anyhow.

Ironically, we're facing a similar scenario in Iraq. We know that Iran and
Syria are supplying arms, men, and intelligence to the insurgency. Unlike
Truman, however, I don't believe Bush will blink when the time comes to go
after either country. Of course, neither country is a nuclear power, and
neither country poses quite the same threat that a nuclear armed USSR posed.




Under no circumstances, however, will your
forces cross the Manchurian or USSR borders of Korea" - Gen. Bradley,
Chairman, US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Sept.27, 1950.

Well, at least MacArthur followed that order.


Truman decided that it would be better to reach a stalemate than risk a
larger war with either China or the Soviet Union, or both. MacArthur
thought that he was already fighting the Chinese and Truman was tying his
hands. It's unclear what the world would look like today if MacArthur's
voice was listened to, but Truman's precedent of limited war is still with
us.

Limited war is a farce. Neither side wins with limited war. I'm not a
proponent of war. But if and when it's inevitable and necessary, it should
not be "limited". We fought limited wars in Vietnam and Korea...which is
why one of those ended with our withdrawal, and the other ended in a
stalemate.

Korea and Vietnam were Cold War wars fought on other people's land. Sadly,
both countries were pawns in a US vs. Soviet dick-waving contest.

On Fri, 06 May 2005 08:20:21 -0400, NOYB wrote:


Limited war is a farce. Neither side wins with limited war. I'm not a
proponent of war. But if and when it's inevitable and necessary, it
should not be "limited". We fought limited wars in Vietnam and
Korea...which is why one of those ended with our withdrawal, and the other
ended in a stalemate.

Yes, but limited war was the only possible war between nuclear powers .
Mutually Assured Destruction makes total war unacceptable.

Korea and Vietnam were Cold War wars fought on other people's land.
Sadly, both countries were pawns in a US vs. Soviet dick-waving contest.

Limited wars or proxy wars, nukes saw to that.