May 4, 1970 - 4 dead in Ohio
 

To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue to
rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

JimH wrote:
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you
continue to
rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

I second that.

wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you
continue to
rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

I second that.


Me too......

Jim Carter

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue to
rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot. How
many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

NOYB wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message
...

To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue to
rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/


Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot. How
many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?


Of the students killed, the closest was 275 feet from the demonstration.
Many were merely walking to class. The demonstrators were not armed,
they were mostly students protesting a war crime

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot. How
many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Yeah sure.....unarmed students deserved to be shot dead.

Where the hell is your head NOYB?

On Wed, 04 May 2005 19:29:01 +0000, NOYB wrote:


"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot. How
many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

NOYB, don't let the facts get in the way. Many of the students shot were
not involved in the demonstrations. They were merely doing what students
should be doing, going to class.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot. How
many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Just out of curiosity....how old were you when the event happened?

Congrats on this group for making some progress.

I clearly remember a May 5 or so ago when this forum was filled with
notes from
people who were angry that the Guard was unfairly maligned for
"defending itself against attacks by a bunch of rock and bottle
throwing protestors."

Nice to see that a greater number of people are willing to see this
tragic incident as........a tragic incident.

"Jim," wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message
...

To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/


Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?


Of the students killed, the closest was 275 feet from the demonstration.
Many were merely walking to class. The demonstrators were not armed, they
were mostly students protesting a war crime

I didn't know that you were there. Since I wasn't, I can't comment on how
close the nearest student stood to the demonstration.

On Wed, 4 May 2005 13:42:58 -0400, "JimH" wrote:

To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue to
rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

This is also Cinco de Mayo - the day Mexican Army (4,000 strong)
eliminated the French and their Mexican collaborators (8,000 strong)
at Puebla, Mexico in 1862.

Once again, the French had their asses handed to them.

Later,

Tom

On Wed, 04 May 2005 21:22:21 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Wed, 4 May 2005 13:42:58 -0400, "JimH" wrote:

To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue to
rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

This is also Cinco de Mayo - the day Mexican Army (4,000 strong)
eliminated the French and their Mexican collaborators (8,000 strong)
at Puebla, Mexico in 1862.

Once again, the French had their asses handed to them.

Whoops - I'm a day ahead of myself.

Apologies.

The comment about the French still stands. :)

Later,

Tom

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Yeah sure.....unarmed students deserved to be shot dead.

Where the hell is your head NOYB?

Two days before the shootings, the demonstrators burned down the ROTC
building, and then pelted the cops and firefighters with rocks, and slashed
the firehoses with knives.

Biker groups showed up, store windows were smashed, and shops were looted.
There was talk about "revolutionaries" showing up to destroy the campus and
city and tip off a violent political revolution in the US.


The Governor warned against the Demonstration on May 4th, yet they held it
anyhow. When the crowd was ordered to disperse, they ignored the demand.
Tear gas was used to disperse the crowd, but it was only thrown back at the
Guardsmen. A crowd of 1000 students pursued a retreating group of 70 armed
Guardsmen...and the Guardsmen opened fire.

WTF did they think would happen when they started pursuing *armed* Guardsmen
with rocks, tear gas canisters, and other projectiles?

It's sad that 3 of the 4 who were killed appear to have been "observers",
rather than participants. But the blood of those three is on the hands of
the 1000's of demonstrators who incited the defensive response from the
Guardsmen.

NOYB wrote:

"Jim," wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:

"JimH" wrote in message
...


To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/


Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Of the students killed, the closest was 275 feet from the demonstration.
Many were merely walking to class. The demonstrators were not armed, they
were mostly students protesting a war crime


I didn't know that you were there. Since I wasn't, I can't comment on how
close the nearest student stood to the demonstration.


Perhaps if you were to actually READ the article mentioned?

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Just out of curiosity....how old were you when the event happened?

I had just been conceived! Perhaps my parents were celebrating?

"Kubez" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in
ink.net:


"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you
continue to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that
day? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

Which section of the Ohio State code condones the death penalty for
venturing out of one's dorm?

There are statutes authorizing deadly force in response to force.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Congrats on this group for making some progress.

I clearly remember a May 5 or so ago when this forum was filled with
notes from
people who were angry that the Guard was unfairly maligned for
"defending itself against attacks by a bunch of rock and bottle
throwing protestors."

I'm still angry.

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Yeah sure.....unarmed students deserved to be shot dead.

Where the hell is your head NOYB?

Two days before the shootings, the demonstrators burned down the ROTC
building, and then pelted the cops and firefighters with rocks, and
slashed the firehoses with knives.

Biker groups showed up, store windows were smashed, and shops were looted.
There was talk about "revolutionaries" showing up to destroy the campus
and city and tip off a violent political revolution in the US.


The Governor warned against the Demonstration on May 4th, yet they held it
anyhow. When the crowd was ordered to disperse, they ignored the demand.
Tear gas was used to disperse the crowd, but it was only thrown back at
the Guardsmen. A crowd of 1000 students pursued a retreating group of 70
armed Guardsmen...and the Guardsmen opened fire.

WTF did they think would happen when they started pursuing *armed*
Guardsmen with rocks, tear gas canisters, and other projectiles?

It's sad that 3 of the 4 who were killed appear to have been "observers",
rather than participants. But the blood of those three is on the hands of
the 1000's of demonstrators who incited the defensive response from the
Guardsmen.



Someone (Gov. Rhodes?) decided to allow the troops to use real bullets.
What a brilliant idea.....NOT!

No one deserved to be shot. No one deserved to be killed.

One can control a crowd with other means......rubber bullets, horses, water
cannons. All those options were available.

You also have to understand the sentiment about the war at that stage in
time, especially amongst college students.

Did you live through this experience NOYB....how old were you in 1970?

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Just out of curiosity....how old were you when the event happened?

I had just been conceived!

So your only knowledge of the events is what you read? I figured as much.

Perhaps my parents were celebrating?

A truly sick and distorted thing to say.

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Congrats on this group for making some progress.

I clearly remember a May 5 or so ago when this forum was filled with
notes from
people who were angry that the Guard was unfairly maligned for
"defending itself against attacks by a bunch of rock and bottle
throwing protestors."

I'm still angry.



Give me a friggin break. You were not even born when this event occurred.

What ever the sad reasoning to use live ammo the true disturbance is
when our government needs to call in the military to quell it's
civilian protest. Yes I remember and in fact I was in-country when this
horrific act happened...Thanks for remembering the incident it was an
important day in our history.

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you
continue to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that
day? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Yeah sure.....unarmed students deserved to be shot dead.

Where the hell is your head NOYB?

Two days before the shootings, the demonstrators burned down the ROTC
building, and then pelted the cops and firefighters with rocks, and
slashed the firehoses with knives.

Biker groups showed up, store windows were smashed, and shops were
looted. There was talk about "revolutionaries" showing up to destroy the
campus and city and tip off a violent political revolution in the US.


The Governor warned against the Demonstration on May 4th, yet they held
it anyhow. When the crowd was ordered to disperse, they ignored the
demand. Tear gas was used to disperse the crowd, but it was only thrown
back at the Guardsmen. A crowd of 1000 students pursued a retreating
group of 70 armed Guardsmen...and the Guardsmen opened fire.

WTF did they think would happen when they started pursuing *armed*
Guardsmen with rocks, tear gas canisters, and other projectiles?

It's sad that 3 of the 4 who were killed appear to have been "observers",
rather than participants. But the blood of those three is on the hands
of the 1000's of demonstrators who incited the defensive response from
the Guardsmen.



Someone (Gov. Rhodes?) decided to allow the troops to use real bullets.
What a brilliant idea.....NOT!

No one deserved to be shot. No one deserved to be killed.

One can control a crowd with other means......rubber bullets, horses,
water cannons. All those options were available.

You also have to understand the sentiment about the war at that stage in
time, especially amongst college students.

Did you live through this experience NOYB....how old were you in 1970?


By horses I of course mean troops riding horses to control crowds. Very
popular and effective by the New Orleans police during the Mardi Gras
season. You don't screw with an animal weighing 5 times more than you. ;-)

On Wed, 4 May 2005 16:25:43 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot. How
many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Just out of curiosity....how old were you when the event happened?


I was 26. I'd been back from Vietnam for a little over 4 months. At the time, my
sympathies were with the National Guard. Now I see it as a tragic event, but it
took a lot of time for that to happen.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Wed, 4 May 2005 17:44:19 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Yeah sure.....unarmed students deserved to be shot dead.

Where the hell is your head NOYB?

Two days before the shootings, the demonstrators burned down the ROTC
building, and then pelted the cops and firefighters with rocks, and
slashed the firehoses with knives.

Biker groups showed up, store windows were smashed, and shops were looted.
There was talk about "revolutionaries" showing up to destroy the campus
and city and tip off a violent political revolution in the US.


The Governor warned against the Demonstration on May 4th, yet they held it
anyhow. When the crowd was ordered to disperse, they ignored the demand.
Tear gas was used to disperse the crowd, but it was only thrown back at
the Guardsmen. A crowd of 1000 students pursued a retreating group of 70
armed Guardsmen...and the Guardsmen opened fire.

WTF did they think would happen when they started pursuing *armed*
Guardsmen with rocks, tear gas canisters, and other projectiles?

It's sad that 3 of the 4 who were killed appear to have been "observers",
rather than participants. But the blood of those three is on the hands of
the 1000's of demonstrators who incited the defensive response from the
Guardsmen.



Someone (Gov. Rhodes?) decided to allow the troops to use real bullets.
What a brilliant idea.....NOT!

No one deserved to be shot. No one deserved to be killed.

One can control a crowd with other means......rubber bullets, horses, water
cannons. All those options were available.

You also have to understand the sentiment about the war at that stage in
time, especially amongst college students.

Did you live through this experience NOYB....how old were you in 1970?


Having been involved in riot control training, I can say that we did *not* have
rubber bullets for the M-14. Maybe they exist for the M-16 now, but I've not
heard of them.

Nor is the National Guard issued horses for riot control. Perhaps the police had
them, but if the police could have handled the problem, why were the Guard
called out?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Wed, 4 May 2005 18:23:16 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you
continue to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that
day? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Yeah sure.....unarmed students deserved to be shot dead.

Where the hell is your head NOYB?

Two days before the shootings, the demonstrators burned down the ROTC
building, and then pelted the cops and firefighters with rocks, and
slashed the firehoses with knives.

Biker groups showed up, store windows were smashed, and shops were
looted. There was talk about "revolutionaries" showing up to destroy the
campus and city and tip off a violent political revolution in the US.


The Governor warned against the Demonstration on May 4th, yet they held
it anyhow. When the crowd was ordered to disperse, they ignored the
demand. Tear gas was used to disperse the crowd, but it was only thrown
back at the Guardsmen. A crowd of 1000 students pursued a retreating
group of 70 armed Guardsmen...and the Guardsmen opened fire.

WTF did they think would happen when they started pursuing *armed*
Guardsmen with rocks, tear gas canisters, and other projectiles?

It's sad that 3 of the 4 who were killed appear to have been "observers",
rather than participants. But the blood of those three is on the hands
of the 1000's of demonstrators who incited the defensive response from
the Guardsmen.



Someone (Gov. Rhodes?) decided to allow the troops to use real bullets.
What a brilliant idea.....NOT!

No one deserved to be shot. No one deserved to be killed.

One can control a crowd with other means......rubber bullets, horses,
water cannons. All those options were available.

You also have to understand the sentiment about the war at that stage in
time, especially amongst college students.

Did you live through this experience NOYB....how old were you in 1970?


By horses I of course mean troops riding horses to control crowds. Very
popular and effective by the New Orleans police during the Mardi Gras
season. You don't screw with an animal weighing 5 times more than you. ;-)


The rioters at Kent State were not your typical Mardi Gras happy-go-lucky,
inebriated crowd.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 May 2005 16:25:43 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How
many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Just out of curiosity....how old were you when the event happened?


I was 26. I'd been back from Vietnam for a little over 4 months. At the
time, my
sympathies were with the National Guard. Now I see it as a tragic event,
but it
took a lot of time for that to happen.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

I think most folks now feel the same way John. The problem is that most
folks, at the time, did not. And many were vocal in their beliefs.

I can understand how that made you and the other Vets returning felt. I am
ashamed of the way you were treated though.

You, and all the returning military, should have been honored and respected.

It was not your war. I was not your decision to go to war.

You were only following commands.

I respect you and thank you for your service Sir.

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 May 2005 17:44:19 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you
continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that
day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Yeah sure.....unarmed students deserved to be shot dead.

Where the hell is your head NOYB?

Two days before the shootings, the demonstrators burned down the ROTC
building, and then pelted the cops and firefighters with rocks, and
slashed the firehoses with knives.

Biker groups showed up, store windows were smashed, and shops were
looted.
There was talk about "revolutionaries" showing up to destroy the campus
and city and tip off a violent political revolution in the US.


The Governor warned against the Demonstration on May 4th, yet they held
it
anyhow. When the crowd was ordered to disperse, they ignored the
demand.
Tear gas was used to disperse the crowd, but it was only thrown back at
the Guardsmen. A crowd of 1000 students pursued a retreating group of
70
armed Guardsmen...and the Guardsmen opened fire.

WTF did they think would happen when they started pursuing *armed*
Guardsmen with rocks, tear gas canisters, and other projectiles?

It's sad that 3 of the 4 who were killed appear to have been
"observers",
rather than participants. But the blood of those three is on the hands
of
the 1000's of demonstrators who incited the defensive response from the
Guardsmen.



Someone (Gov. Rhodes?) decided to allow the troops to use real bullets.
What a brilliant idea.....NOT!

No one deserved to be shot. No one deserved to be killed.

One can control a crowd with other means......rubber bullets, horses,
water
cannons. All those options were available.

You also have to understand the sentiment about the war at that stage in
time, especially amongst college students.

Did you live through this experience NOYB....how old were you in 1970?


Having been involved in riot control training, I can say that we did *not*
have
rubber bullets for the M-14. Maybe they exist for the M-16 now, but I've
not
heard of them.

Nor is the National Guard issued horses for riot control. Perhaps the
police had
them, but if the police could have handled the problem, why were the Guard
called out?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were ordered to
do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to use live
ammo.

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 May 2005 17:44:19 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you
continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that
day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Yeah sure.....unarmed students deserved to be shot dead.

Where the hell is your head NOYB?

Two days before the shootings, the demonstrators burned down the ROTC
building, and then pelted the cops and firefighters with rocks, and
slashed the firehoses with knives.

Biker groups showed up, store windows were smashed, and shops were
looted.
There was talk about "revolutionaries" showing up to destroy the campus
and city and tip off a violent political revolution in the US.


The Governor warned against the Demonstration on May 4th, yet they held
it
anyhow. When the crowd was ordered to disperse, they ignored the
demand.
Tear gas was used to disperse the crowd, but it was only thrown back at
the Guardsmen. A crowd of 1000 students pursued a retreating group of
70
armed Guardsmen...and the Guardsmen opened fire.

WTF did they think would happen when they started pursuing *armed*
Guardsmen with rocks, tear gas canisters, and other projectiles?

It's sad that 3 of the 4 who were killed appear to have been
"observers",
rather than participants. But the blood of those three is on the hands
of
the 1000's of demonstrators who incited the defensive response from the
Guardsmen.



Someone (Gov. Rhodes?) decided to allow the troops to use real bullets.
What a brilliant idea.....NOT!

No one deserved to be shot. No one deserved to be killed.

One can control a crowd with other means......rubber bullets, horses,
water
cannons. All those options were available.

You also have to understand the sentiment about the war at that stage in
time, especially amongst college students.

Did you live through this experience NOYB....how old were you in 1970?


Having been involved in riot control training, I can say that we did *not*
have
rubber bullets for the M-14. Maybe they exist for the M-16 now, but I've
not
heard of them.

Nor is the National Guard issued horses for riot control. Perhaps the
police had
them, but if the police could have handled the problem, why were the Guard
called out?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

John, I know you served and I say "Thank you Sir" for that.

Please do not get the wrong idea on my post.

Jim

On Wed, 4 May 2005 19:59:27 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 4 May 2005 16:25:43 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"NOYB" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you continue
to rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How
many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?



Just out of curiosity....how old were you when the event happened?


I was 26. I'd been back from Vietnam for a little over 4 months. At the
time, my
sympathies were with the National Guard. Now I see it as a tragic event,
but it
took a lot of time for that to happen.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

I think most folks now feel the same way John. The problem is that most
folks, at the time, did not. And many were vocal in their beliefs.

I can understand how that made you and the other Vets returning felt. I am
ashamed of the way you were treated though.

You, and all the returning military, should have been honored and respected.

It was not your war. I was not your decision to go to war.

You were only following commands.

I respect you and thank you for your service Sir.


You're most welcome. Thanks for the kind words.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country. In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

NOYB wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message
...
To the 4 students killed at Kent State on May 4, 1970, may you
continue to
rest in peace.

http://kent.state.tripod.com/

Peace? If they were acting peacefully, they wouldn't have been shot.
How
many students who stayed in their rooms studying were shot that day?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

You MUST be the most narrow minded person in existence......
Do you think that because they were demonstrating that it wasn't
peaceful? How so? Do you think that in order for a person to be
peaceful, that they must be in their rooms studying??

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Congrats on this group for making some progress.

I clearly remember a May 5 or so ago when this forum was filled
with
notes from
people who were angry that the Guard was unfairly maligned for
"defending itself against attacks by a bunch of rock and bottle
throwing protestors."

I'm still angry.

And you're still narrow minded.

JimH wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Congrats on this group for making some progress.

I clearly remember a May 5 or so ago when this forum was filled
with
notes from
people who were angry that the Guard was unfairly maligned for
"defending itself against attacks by a bunch of rock and bottle
throwing protestors."

I'm still angry.



Give me a friggin break. You were not even born when this event
occurred.

Jim, NOYB's problem, outside of being VERY narrow minded, is that he
thinks that everyone who doesn't 100% goose step to the government is a
traitor, and unpatriotic. He still hasn't figured out that working for
change IS patriotic, and is the rationale our country was founded on.

On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country. In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

Later,

Tom

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country. In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

Later,

Tom



One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not discuss
any past historical events.

There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

On Thu, 5 May 2005 08:41:15 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country. In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not discuss
any past historical events.

Her. Oh yes - the good old "learn from history" card.

If the human race and "learned from history" where do you think we
would be now Jim?

Please - humans don't learn from history. If they did, we'd be in a
far better place and time.

There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

I didn't say there was anything "wrong" - it's just useless.

Or provocative which I suspect is the purpose in any case.

Later,

Tom

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 May 2005 08:41:15 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were
ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to
use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country.
In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not
discuss
any past historical events.

Her. Oh yes - the good old "learn from history" card.

If the human race and "learned from history" where do you think we
would be now Jim?

If we didn't, where do you think we would be now Tom?



Please - humans don't learn from history. If they did, we'd be in a
far better place and time.

If they didn't we'd be in a far worse place and time.



There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

I didn't say there was anything "wrong" - it's just useless.

Or provocative which I suspect is the purpose in any case.

Later,

Tom

Provocative as in inciting a mature discussion and remembering the
event...yes. Provocative as in trying to start a flame war....no.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 May 2005 08:41:15 -0400, "JimH" wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were
ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to
use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country.
In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not
discuss
any past historical events.

Her. Oh yes - the good old "learn from history" card.

If the human race and "learned from history" where do you think we
would be now Jim?

Please - humans don't learn from history. If they did, we'd be in a
far better place and time.

There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

I didn't say there was anything "wrong" - it's just useless.

Or provocative which I suspect is the purpose in any case.

Later,

Tom

Leaving to help my buddy paint his old Lyman.

Later.

On Thu, 05 May 2005 12:36:55 +0000, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:


You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the complete
truth of what happened so why bother?

Perhaps that is why it still engenders passions, not only do we not know
the complete truth, we know very little of any truth about Kent State.
Perhaps if there was a truth, or a valid investigation of the events,
there would be a closure.

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when I
think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

Later,

Tom

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47:03 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03:41 -0400, JimH wrote:


No one is blaming the reserve troops.....they did what they were
ordered
to do. The blame goes to the person actually ordering the troops to
use
live ammo.

While the Kent State shootings were a tragedy for all concerned, the
investigation afterwords is truly an embarrassment for this country. In
the bitter divisiveness of that time, the search for any truth took a
backseat.

http://members.aol.com/nrbooks/chronol.htm

For those that are interested, a rather comprehensive site covering the
incident:

http://www.may4archive.org/index.shtml

You know what amazes me about this?

It still engenders passions and debate 30/35 years later.

I wonder why? It's not like anybody is ever going to know the
complete truth of what happened so why bother?

Seriously, without looking it up, can you name the girl in the famous
photograph? I sure as hell can't and that photo still haunts me when
I think of Kent State.

We should just leave it alone.

Later,

Tom



One must learn from past mistakes. Using your logic one should not
discuss any past historical events.

There is nothing wrong with this discussion Tom.

Except that it's not boat related, *AND* you didn't put OT in front of it.

You've jumped into several OT posts (that were marked as such), and
complained that people keep posting OT. And now you've created your own OT
post.