"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
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NOYB wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
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Doug Kanter wrote:

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"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
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"NOYB" wrote in message
. earthlink.net...


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
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"NOYB" wrote in message
l.earthlink.net...


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
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"NOYB" wrote in message
. atl.earthlink.net...



Perhaps. But only if the ACLU continues to dismantle the
President's authority to detain illegal combatants in this war on
terror.

You mean, the government's new hobby, detaining people like these?

And, don't hand us any bull**** about the source, as you usually
do.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Apr20.html


Muslims Detained at Border Sue U.S. Homeland Security

By Michelle Garcia
Special to The Washington Post
Thursday, April 21, 2005; Page A08

NEW YORK, April 20 -- American Muslims detained at the border as
they returned from a religious conference in Toronto sued the
Department of Homeland Security on Wednesday alleging they were
targets of ethnic and religious profiling.

The five Muslims, all U.S. citizens, say customs officials
detained dozens of others from their conference in December,
subjecting them to interrogations, fingerprinting and
photographing.

I have no problem with the "source" of this story...nor with
actions of the Dept. of Homeland Security.

Those 5 folks who were detained are certainly more apt to commit
terrorist attacks than an 80 year old grandmother. It's about time
they started racial profiling...especially for people who travel to
"conferences" that have suspected ties to terrorism.


Besides...questioning, fingerprinting, and photographing hardly
qualify as "detainment". So what's the big deal?

But professor, you objected to the exact same type of policies when
practiced by the USSR. Sorry. Can't have it both ways.

No I didn't. I'm all for a National Photo ID card and fingerprint
and/or retinal scans at the airport and border crossings.


Nope. You're lying. When you were younger, you went along with the
anti-communist party line, agreed with Reagan 100% about his "evil
empire" views. The totalitarian tactics were the bane of your
existence. You only claim to approve of them now because the only way
you can tread water in a debate is to bait your opponents.

WTF are you talking about?


I'll simplify this. You say you believe in things like ID cards, etc.,
and that you were OK with similar obscenities when practiced in the USSR
and its Eastern European satellite countries. You're lying to yourself
when you make that statement. Why? Because you haven't thoroughly
thought out all the ramifications of these practices, many of which are
the reason so many fled from those countries.

You will now say that people left those countries because they wanted to
live in a free enterprise system, but that's hardly the whole story and
you know it.

So, think about this: You're anchored somewhere quiet on your boat, just
you and the girlfriend, or maybe even your wife. You're about to
administer a beef injection down in the cabin when a boat pulls up and
announces on its loudspeaker "Come out of the cabin with your ID cards.
You have 30 seconds." You can't get dressed quick enough, so you are
boarded, and both of you are dragged, half naked, out of the cabin. The
cabin is tossed by the "authorities" you say you believe in. Meanwhile,
your ID card is in your pocket, but they toss the entire cabin anyway.

They search your girlfriend's purse and find she's carrying a handgun.
They see her permit. In Florida, you are not required to notify an
officer that you're carrying, but these guys are Feds, so because they
think their **** don't stink, they believe the law applies only to state
or local cops. They tell your girlfriend that because she forgot to
inform them of the gun, they're confiscating it, and her too. "The
president's gonna be down this way for a fund raiser next week. What did
you have in mind with the gun, lady?"

This is potentially what you are agreeing with. And if you think there
aren't enough antisocial types who'd gladly sign up, put on a uniform,
and do things like this to innocent citizens under the guise of
"national security", think again. You've already seen it done.



It's far worse than your scenario, Doug. If there is a federal ID card,
and you are required to show it for various reasons, there also will be
various nefarious reasons why the authorities will take the card from
you, and you'll be unable to travel or to do any of the other things that
require the card.


The legislation can be written to avoid such a thing from happening.
It's an *IDENTIFICATION* card, for crying out loud.

It makes processing the bad guys a whole lot easier.




Sorry, but I wouldn't trust the thugs in the Bush administration to
squeegee my windshield, much less issue national ID cards.

I can see your point. If such a measure went through the House and Senate
in 1993 or 1994, when the Dems controlled the White House and Congress, I'd
have been very afraid too.