On Wed, 04 May 2005 16:16:58 +0000, NOYB wrote:


And you forgot to mention the terrorist downing of TWA 800.

Conspiracy theorists around here say it was a US Navy missile that downed
Flight 800. You are not calling the US Navy terrorists, are you?

http://www.serendipity.li/more/twa800.html


Oh and, there are quite a few conspiracy websites that state the Pentagon
wasn't hit by an airplane on 9/11. I'm wondering, does the tinfoil help?

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 May 2005 16:16:58 +0000, NOYB wrote:


And you forgot to mention the terrorist downing of TWA 800.

Conspiracy theorists around here say it was a US Navy missile that downed
Flight 800. You are not calling the US Navy terrorists, are you?

http://www.serendipity.li/more/twa800.html


Oh and, there are quite a few conspiracy websites that state the Pentagon
wasn't hit by an airplane on 9/11. I'm wondering, does the tinfoil help?


Temporary sudden right turn:

Apropos of nothing, the government allows almost half of commercial planes
to continue operating with flammable insulation in the "attic" above the
headliner, even though the flight that crashed a few years back off
Newfoundland is known to have crashed due to smoke in the cockpit.

This is also a conspiracy, of the lobbyist kind.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 May 2005 16:16:58 +0000, NOYB wrote:


And you forgot to mention the terrorist downing of TWA 800.

Conspiracy theorists around here say it was a US Navy missile that downed
Flight 800. You are not calling the US Navy terrorists, are you?

http://www.serendipity.li/more/twa800.html


Oh and, there are quite a few conspiracy websites that state the Pentagon
wasn't hit by an airplane on 9/11. I'm wondering, does the tinfoil help?

I'm not posting links to "conspiracy theory websites". I'm quoting a former
Clinton adviser on the Middle East, and a former CIA director.

Nowhere have I read a US government official publically go on record to
suggest that a Navy missile downed TWA 800, nor that a plane never hit the
Pentagon.

On Wed, 04 May 2005 19:32:15 +0000, NOYB wrote:


I'm not posting links to "conspiracy theory websites". I'm quoting a
former Clinton adviser on the Middle East, and a former CIA director.

As to which incident? Oklahoma City or Flight 800? I'll admit that with
Oklahoma City there are some unanswered questions, but no where have I
read anything that credibly suggested Flight 800 was a terrorist act.

Nowhere have I read a US government official publically go on record to
suggest that a Navy missile downed TWA 800, nor that a plane never hit the
Pentagon.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 May 2005 19:32:15 +0000, NOYB wrote:


I'm not posting links to "conspiracy theory websites". I'm quoting a
former Clinton adviser on the Middle East, and a former CIA director.

As to which incident? Oklahoma City or Flight 800? I'll admit that with
Oklahoma City there are some unanswered questions, but no where have I
read anything that credibly suggested Flight 800 was a terrorist act.

http://twa800.com/pages/alhayat.htm

They cite articles by Reuters, NY Times, London Times, etc.

"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Jack Goff" wrote in message
. ..

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message

This is potentially what you are agreeing with. And if you think there
aren't enough antisocial types who'd gladly sign up, put on a uniform,

and

do things like this to innocent citizens under the guise of "national
security", think again. You've already seen it done.

The Feds have had this power on the waterways for some time now. It has
nothing to do with ID cards.


Forget it, NYOB. You're arguing with small-minded, liberal
chicken-littles,
and their sky is falling.


It must be a very high sky. It's been falling for over 4 years now...and
still hasn't crashed down on anybody's head.


No? What about the 3000 who died because of Bush's malfeasance? The sky
and the building and the plane crashed down on them.


And what about the 3000 that died due to Clinton's malfeasance?

"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:

"Jack Goff" wrote in message
. com...


"NOYB" wrote in message
rthlink.net...


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message

This is potentially what you are agreeing with. And if you think
there
aren't enough antisocial types who'd gladly sign up, put on a
uniform,

and


do things like this to innocent citizens under the guise of "national
security", think again. You've already seen it done.

The Feds have had this power on the waterways for some time now. It
has
nothing to do with ID cards.


Forget it, NYOB. You're arguing with small-minded, liberal
chicken-littles,
and their sky is falling.


It must be a very high sky. It's been falling for over 4 years
now...and still hasn't crashed down on anybody's head.


No? What about the 3000 who died because of Bush's malfeasance? The sky
and the building and the plane crashed down on them.


The planning for that attack was under way for several years prior to
Bush taking office. Bush had the misfortune of having to rely on
information gathered by Clinton-appointees.

Notice how there hasn't been an attack since Bush went on the offensive
with *his* people in the important positions?

You are STILL trying to pin 9-11 on Clinton?

Bush was at the helm on 9-11, and had been at the helm for eight months.
He had warnings he decided to ignore. He spent the summer diddling on his
ranch. I blame Bush for being asleep on watch on 9-11. History will, too.

Your oft-repeated comment about "no attacks" is nonsense. The terrorists
will attack on their schedule, not ours.

Let's talk about Hillary's failure to maintain control of her campaign
finances. She is at the helm of her ship and it is being riddled with hole
known as indictments, guilt pleadings and convictions for fraud and
conspiracy.

On Wed, 4 May 2005 19:29:09 -0400, "Bert Robbins" wrote:


Let's talk about Hillary's failure to maintain control of her campaign
finances. She is at the helm of her ship and it is being riddled with hole
known as indictments, guilt pleadings and convictions for fraud and
conspiracy.


Speaking of which:

Did Hillary Clinton win her Senate seat through fraud?

David Rosen, former National Finance Director of Hillary Clinton's 2000 Senate
campaign, is under a four-count federal indictment charging that he "knowingly
and willfully caused to be made materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent
statements" to the Federal Election Commission regarding more than $1 million in
campaign contributions. Each of the four felony counts carries a possible
penalty of five years in prison and $250,000 in fines.

This is the most massive fraud ever charged against a political campaign by the
U.S. Government.

The criminal charges against Rosen stem from the largest fundraiser on behalf of
Hillary Clinton's Senate campaign. The August 12, 2000 Hollywood Gala Salute to
President Clinton featured performances by Cher, Diana Ross, Toni Braxton, Patti
LaBelle, Melissa Etheridge, Sugar Ray and Michael Bolton. The event cost
organizer Peter Paul more than $1.2 million to host, and raised $1 million in
"hard money" contributions. By falsely reporting those costs as $401,419, the
Clinton campaign avoided paying at least $800,000 in hard money -- not including
the fair market value of the performances -- during the crucial final weeks
before the election. If Paul's contribution had been reported fully as required
by law, it could have bankrupted the campaign.

Peter Paul's extensive evidence, which we will organize and present on this
site, shows clearly that Hillary Clinton knew of the actions taken by her
finance director, and that she orchestrated those actions and others in
violation of federal campaign statutes and regulations.

Mr. Paul is being represented in his ongoing civil suit against the Clintons by
the U.S. Justice Foundation, which has formed the Hillary Clinton Accountability
Project to put the facts of the most massive and least reported campaign finance
scandal in history before the American people.

From: http://hillcap.org/default.php?page_id=2&format=print

Looks to be an interesting story.

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 4 May 2005 19:29:09 -0400, "Bert Robbins" wrote:


Let's talk about Hillary's failure to maintain control of her campaign
finances. She is at the helm of her ship and it is being riddled with hole
known as indictments, guilt pleadings and convictions for fraud and
conspiracy.


Speaking of which:

Did Hillary Clinton win her Senate seat through fraud?

David Rosen, former National Finance Director of Hillary Clinton's 2000
Senate
campaign, is under a four-count federal indictment charging that he
"knowingly
and willfully caused to be made materially false, fictitious, and
fraudulent
statements" to the Federal Election Commission regarding more than $1
million in
campaign contributions. Each of the four felony counts carries a possible
penalty of five years in prison and $250,000 in fines.

This is the most massive fraud ever charged against a political campaign
by the
U.S. Government.

The criminal charges against Rosen stem from the largest fundraiser on
behalf of
Hillary Clinton's Senate campaign. The August 12, 2000 Hollywood Gala
Salute to
President Clinton featured performances by Cher, Diana Ross, Toni Braxton,
Patti
LaBelle, Melissa Etheridge, Sugar Ray and Michael Bolton. The event cost
organizer Peter Paul more than $1.2 million to host, and raised $1 million
in
"hard money" contributions. By falsely reporting those costs as $401,419,
the
Clinton campaign avoided paying at least $800,000 in hard money -- not
including
the fair market value of the performances -- during the crucial final
weeks
before the election. If Paul's contribution had been reported fully as
required
by law, it could have bankrupted the campaign.

Peter Paul's extensive evidence, which we will organize and present on
this
site, shows clearly that Hillary Clinton knew of the actions taken by her
finance director, and that she orchestrated those actions and others in
violation of federal campaign statutes and regulations.

Mr. Paul is being represented in his ongoing civil suit against the
Clintons by
the U.S. Justice Foundation, which has formed the Hillary Clinton
Accountability
Project to put the facts of the most massive and least reported campaign
finance
scandal in history before the American people.

From: http://hillcap.org/default.php?page_id=2&format=print

Looks to be an interesting story.

It just proves that everything that Bill or Hillary come into contact with
turns to crap and the people they hurt are left to rot on the side of the
road.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 May 2005 19:32:15 +0000, NOYB wrote:


I'm not posting links to "conspiracy theory websites". I'm quoting a
former Clinton adviser on the Middle East, and a former CIA director.

As to which incident? Oklahoma City or Flight 800? I'll admit that with
Oklahoma City there are some unanswered questions, but no where have I
read anything that credibly suggested Flight 800 was a terrorist act.

Nowhere have I read a US government official publically go on record to
suggest that a Navy missile downed TWA 800, nor that a plane never hit
the
Pentagon.



Hidden explosives tie FBI to OKC destruction?

Posted: April 6, 2005 1:00 a.m. Eastern

On Thursday afternoon, March 31, within hours of the death of Terry Schiavo,
the FBI approached an entirely surprised Georgia Rucker in the forgotten
little town of Herington, Kan., an hour or so southwest of Topeka.

The agents asked Rucker for the keys to a cracker box of a house she was
trying to sell on South Second Street. They told her they were searching for
possible explosives. Naturally, she obliged. Unconcerned by what they might
find, Rucker went and had her hair done while she waited for them to finish.
"I didn't think it was possible for there to be anything there," she told a
reporter from the Daily Union in nearby Junction City.

Rucker was wrong. The FBI soon called in the Topeka bomb squad, evacuated
the immediate neighborhood, and cordoned off a three-block area. They worked
through the night and into the next day. As Rucker learned, this is the
house in which Terry Nichols lived at the time of the Oklahoma City bombing.

Although the FBI on the scene would not confirm that its agents found
anything, ABC News and others were told by Oklahoma City's FBI office that
explosive devices had indeed been found. The news spin, at least what little
surfaced in a period of predictable news frenzy, was that the FBI was
embarrassed for not having found this old material 10 years prior.

As has happened all too often in the past, however, seeming FBI incompetence
provides a cover for a much more troubling story. The story, as high-level
forensic economist Stephen Dresch relates it, revolves around an
extraordinary figure, Gregory Scarpa Jr., a convicted mobster now serving
hard time at the federal super max in Florence, Colo.

Readers may remember Scarpa from multiple Emmy-winner Peter Lance's book,
"Cover-Up." As Lance relates, Scarpa cooperated with the Justice Department
in the summer of 1996 by scheming to rout the calls of jailmate Ramzi Yousef
through to the FBI. Unfortunately for the United States, Yousef often used
two obscure languages that the FBI could not translate quickly enough, if at
all.

[A letter I received two weeks ago from a purported NSA insider identified
the key language as Baluchi, Yousef's native tongue. Again, reportedly,
Yousef's final transmission on the subject translated as follows, "What had
to be done has been done, TWA 800 (last two words unintelligible)."]

What is undeniable is that the day after TWA Flight 800 blew up off the
coast of Long Island, Yousef asked for a mistrial, citing the now
prejudicial environment post-explosion. He was denied. By allowing him to
communicate overseas, however, the Justice Department may well have
unwittingly assisted Yousef in his effort to destroy that ill-fated plane.

No one doubts that his allies were capable of it. Indeed, Yousef had bombed
a plane in the Philippines, killing a passenger and almost blowing the plane
out of the air. He also served as the mastermind of the first World Trade
Center bombing and was convicted for the same. His uncle, Khalid Shiekh
Muhammad, with whom he communicated from his New York jail, was the
mastermind of 9-11.

Possibly to silence him, the Justice Department cut Scarpa no slack for his
help with Yousef and deep-sixed him in Colorado for 40 years, a severe
sentence for a non-lethal RICO charge. On March 1, 2005, Scarpa called
Dresch, who was consulting with an attorney on a related case. Scarpa
informed Dresch that an unnamed inmate had made him aware of a cache of
explosives to be used in an act of domestic terrorism, possibly on the 10th
anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing, April 19.

Dresch surmised, correctly as it turned out, that the inmate was Terry
Nichols, the convicted Oklahoma City bomber, and he immediately contacted
the FBI by both phone and fax, as well as Massachusetts Congressman William
Delahunt with whom Dresch had been working on an FBI-related matter. The FBI
visited Scarpa at the prison on March 3, two days later. Having been burned
once, this time Scarpa insisted on a written cooperation agreement before he
talked.

The following day, an FBI polygraph expert flew in from D.C. and
administered what Dresch's own expert calls an "absurdly flawed
examination." The FBI expert claimed that Scarpa was lying. Scarpa
immediately called Dresch's associate and insisted that she and Dresch visit
him.

It should be noted that the FBI's current chief counsel, Valerie Caproni,
was the Clinton Justice official who oversaw Scarpa's work with Yousef. To
thicken the plot, it was also Caproni who illegally ordered the FBI to take
the TWA Flight 800 investigation away from the National Transportation
Safety Board and who arranged the prosecution of James and Elizabeth Sanders
for James' reporting on the TWA Flight 800 investigation. The absurdly
compromised Caproni has any number of reasons for keeping Scarpa out of the
light.

On March 10, Dresch and his associate met with Scarpa for seven hours. He
gave them a letter from Nichols that provided a highly detailed description
of the cached bomb making material - nitromethane, blasting caps, kine-pak,
etc. Nichols had told Scarpa that he hid this second cache 10 years ago to
be used as a follow up to the Oklahoma City blast.

Nichols' apparent goal in sharing this information was to bust the man who
allegedly supplied the material, a reported FBI informant named Roger Moore.
Nichols also wanted to expose the FBI's role in supplying Moore the
material, presumably in a sting gone awry. Nichols was certain that Moore's
fingerprints would be on the material.

No longer trusting the FBI, Dresch worked through a contact, who had
high-level Homeland Security connections. Together, they improvised an
arrangement for Scarpa, and on March 11, Dresch laid out the offer. Scarpa
relented and provided Dresch with the address of the house and detailed
descriptions of the location of the cache within it.

Dresch went to Herington the following day and found the house to be vacant
and for sale. His well-connected contact had not followed through, however,
on retrieving the material and giving Scarpa credit where due. Only later
did the contact claim that his people were surveilling the site waiting for
someone to retrieve the material. It would take nearly three more weeks, the
day of Schiavo's death, for the FBI to go in.

On Saturday, I called Jeff Lanza, the FBI public affairs officer on the
scene, whom I have met on at least a few occasions. I left a message, asking
him to confirm whether the Scarpa information led to the activity at
Nichols' former home. His office paged him. Two days later he has yet to get
back to me.

Lanza, however, made a point of telling the Junction City paper, as
paraphrased, "that the FBI did not receive a tip leading them to search ...
but rather had received the information during an investigation." But either
Lanza or Gary Johnson of the FBI's Oklahoma City office is not on message.
"Johnson," writes ABC News, "said the discovery was prompted by a recent
tip."

In any case, when I visited the house on Saturday morning, there were
neither media, nor police, anywhere to be seen. The Scarpa story is one that
many people don't want told - Valerie Caproni, chief among them. And from
the looks of things, they may be succeeding.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That story came out April 6th. Make sure you note the name "Roger
Moore"...because his name just made the mainstream news today:

http://tinyurl.com/dnqlt