Well, As one observation, I just happened to hear that particular sermon
mentioned. Had I been on an aisle seat, I would have been out of
there. I was not aware at the time that the topic for the "sermon" (or
paid political announcement) came from Rome. As it is I am somewhat
ashamed that I didn't stand and challenge the priest for mixing religion
and politics. Needless to say; I haven't been back.

When a priest preaches that support for one political candidate is
sinful, it sure as hell *IS* an attempt to influence politics. And
Some Catholics are conditioned so that the clergy can do no wrong, I
find the Salon article entirely believable, based on my personal experience.


JimH wrote:

Salon.com is such a reliable source for news? Right. They are a bit
closer to feeding on the pond scum than NewsMax..com. It may be a tight
race though.

The bottom line is that some folks will believe anything they read as long
as it verifies their personal opinion. How revealing! And how evident in
this thread.

Regardless, why is the selection of a Pope born and raised during the Nazi
regime (forced to join the juvenile Nazi 14 year old youth program) such a
problem with those non-Catholics or those otherwise removed from the
decision?

Grasping at straws.

Regardless, when was the last time (within the last 100 or so years) that
the Pope has had a direct influence on world wide or regional politics?

Some folks here are trying to make a religious issue into a political one.

Arf!

Time for pause.

So lets drop our religious biases when discussing this issue.

Fair enough?




"Yes, it's me" wrote in message
...

Jim,,,,,
What ever happened to your story about Bush investing in Nazi's? Did you
finally realize how silly your cut and paste was?


"Jim," wrote in message
.. .

http://www.salon.com/opinion/blument.../tk/print.html

extract

April 21, 2005 | President Bush treated his final visit with Pope John
Paul II in Vatican City on June 4, 2004, as a campaign stop. After
enduring a public rebuke from the pope about the Iraq war, Bush lobbied
Vatican officials to help him win the election. "Not all the American
bishops are with me," he complained, according to the National Catholic
Reporter. He pleaded with the Vatican to pressure the bishops to step up
their activism against abortion and gay marriage in the states during the
campaign season.

About a week later, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger sent a letter to the U.S.
bishops, pronouncing that those Catholics who were pro-choice on abortion
were committing a "grave sin" and must be denied Communion. He pointedly
mentioned "the case of a Catholic politician consistently campaigning and
voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws" --
an obvious reference to John Kerry, the Democratic candidate and a Roman
Catholic. If such a Catholic politician sought Communion, Ratzinger
wrote, priests must be ordered to "refuse to distribute it." Any Catholic
who voted for this "Catholic politician," he continued, "would be guilty
of formal cooperation in evil and so unworthy to present himself for Holy
Communion." During the closing weeks of the campaign, a pastoral letter
was read from pulpits in Catholic churches repeating the ominous
suggestion of excommunication. Voting for the Democrat was nothing less
than consorting with the forces of Satan, collaboration with "evil."

In 2004 Bush increased his margin of Catholic support by 6 points from
the 2000 election, rising from 46 to 52 percent. Without this shift,
Kerry would have had a popular majority of a million votes. Three
states -- Ohio, Iowa and New Mexico -- moved into Bush's column on the
votes of the Catholic "faithful." Even with his atmospherics of terrorism
and Sept. 11, Bush required the benediction of the Holy See as his saving
grace. The key to his kingdom was turned by Cardinal Ratzinger.