Manatees in court
 

This may be a stretch, but I think I can imply from your comment that if I
can knock jetski slobs off their craft, I can run them over. :-)

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
Doug,
Off course not. Stay on topic.:-) Cars no! Now with boats, it's okay.
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Florida Keyz" wrote in message
...
When I said manatee do not belong here, is because there were inported
from
West India to miami to eat the plants clogging the cannals.

OK, but so what? They're here. If you move to a new neighborhood and the
locals don't like your family, is it OK for them to run you down with
their
cars? :-)

Manatees in court
 

Subject: Manatees in court
From: (Florida Keyz)

ust answer the questions, coward!

BB


Just answer what?


Congratulations Sterling!
Your first post with a quote in it!

Nice first try.

Capt. Bill

Manatees in court
 

"Florida Keyz" wrote in message
...
When I said manatee do not belong here, is because there were inported
from
West India to miami to eat the plants clogging the cannals.

Info from SaveTheManatee.org:

Fossil remains of manatee ancestors show they have inhabited Florida for
about 45 million years. Modern manatees have been in Florida for over one
million years (probably with intermittent absences during the Ice Ages);
i.e., a lot longer than people have lived here. The present Florida manatee
(Trichechus manatus latirostris) is a subspecies endemic to Florida. Genetic
studies to date indicate that it is not derived from the populations in
Mexico or Central America, but more likely colonized Florida from the
Greater Antilles thousands of years ago, after the last Ice Age. However,
there is no evidence that manatees are now entering Florida from Central
America, the Caribbean, or anywhere else. The manatees in Florida today have
every right to be considered Florida natives.

David S.

Manatees in court
 

"plantsman" wrote in message
om...

"Florida Keyz" wrote in message
...
When I said manatee do not belong here, is because there were inported
from
West India to miami to eat the plants clogging the cannals.

Info from SaveTheManatee.org:

Fossil remains of manatee ancestors show they have inhabited Florida for
about 45 million years. Modern manatees have been in Florida for over one
million years (probably with intermittent absences during the Ice Ages);
i.e., a lot longer than people have lived here. The present Florida
manatee
(Trichechus manatus latirostris) is a subspecies endemic to Florida.
Genetic
studies to date indicate that it is not derived from the populations in
Mexico or Central America, but more likely colonized Florida from the
Greater Antilles thousands of years ago, after the last Ice Age. However,
there is no evidence that manatees are now entering Florida from Central
America, the Caribbean, or anywhere else. The manatees in Florida today
have
every right to be considered Florida natives.

David S.



The scientists who produced this information....are they good Christians? If
not, this information may be suspect.

Manatees in court
 

I don't like you o.t. guys, so if your ever in need of help here in the keys,
be sure and call me first.

Manatees in court
 

Therefore, they are good eating?

MudFish(Co30)



"plantsman" wrote in message
om...

"Florida Keyz" wrote in message
...
When I said manatee do not belong here, is because there were inported
from
West India to miami to eat the plants clogging the cannals.

Info from SaveTheManatee.org:

Fossil remains of manatee ancestors show they have inhabited Florida for
about 45 million years. Modern manatees have been in Florida for over one
million years (probably with intermittent absences during the Ice Ages);
i.e., a lot longer than people have lived here. The present Florida
manatee
(Trichechus manatus latirostris) is a subspecies endemic to Florida.
Genetic
studies to date indicate that it is not derived from the populations in
Mexico or Central America, but more likely colonized Florida from the
Greater Antilles thousands of years ago, after the last Ice Age. However,
there is no evidence that manatees are now entering Florida from Central
America, the Caribbean, or anywhere else. The manatees in Florida today
have
every right to be considered Florida natives.

David S.

Manatees in court
 

John H wrote:
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:02:07 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
.cable.rogers.com...


Speed should be regulated according to depth. Who's in a hurry,
anyway, and why?

Guys with leeetle tiny pee-pees. :-)


Or enlarged prostates and no holding tank!

John H

Or little tiny pee-pees that make it impossible to pee over the side
without getting their side decks and brogues wet?

Terry K

Manatees in court
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
This may be a stretch, but I think I can imply from your comment that if I
can knock jetski slobs off their craft, I can run them over. :-)

No, no, you can't "knock [them -tks] off" with your boat, you must
use something like the Poop cannon holding tank evacuation device to
blow them off, then throw then a bunch of biodegradable T.P., then
you can sail over them over in the confusion, all by accident, of
course.

The undeniable truth we must face is that PWCs will not slice up
manatees like a prop would. They may, however give the manatees huge
linear hickies.

Do you think that would raise their social standing with other
manatees, like the kids seem to think publicly displayed hickies do?

Maybe we need regulations so that PWCs all go to manatee
reservations to boost their morale, and ours?

This cabin fever is getting out of hand.

Terry K


"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...

Doug,
Off course not. Stay on topic.:-) Cars no! Now with boats, it's okay.
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Florida Keyz" wrote in message
...

When I said manatee do not belong here, is because there were inported

from

West India to miami to eat the plants clogging the cannals.

OK, but so what? They're here. If you move to a new neighborhood and the
locals don't like your family, is it OK for them to run you down with

their

cars? :-)

Manatees in court
 

plantsman wrote:
"Florida Keyz" wrote in message
...

When I said manatee do not belong here, is because there were inported

from

West India to miami to eat the plants clogging the cannals.


Info from SaveTheManatee.org:

Fossil remains of manatee ancestors show they have inhabited Florida for
about 45 million years. Modern manatees have been in Florida for over one
million years (probably with intermittent absences during the Ice Ages);
i.e., a lot longer than people have lived here. The present Florida manatee
(Trichechus manatus latirostris) is a subspecies endemic to Florida. Genetic
studies to date indicate that it is not derived from the populations in
Mexico or Central America, but more likely colonized Florida from the
Greater Antilles thousands of years ago, after the last Ice Age. However,
there is no evidence that manatees are now entering Florida from Central
America, the Caribbean, or anywhere else. The manatees in Florida today have
every right to be considered Florida natives.

David S.

Oh, well, then, the answer is obvious. Like other Florida natives,
there should be reserves set aside for them, for their own
protection, well away from the areas most attractive to hazards, and
they should be encouraged to move there, or be killed by the cavalry
on honkin' big government paid speedboats!

What's the guvamint for, if it won't make the water safe for
expensive hi speed props?

Shame!

Terry K

Manatees in court
 

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
able.rogers.com...
Doug Kanter wrote:
This may be a stretch, but I think I can imply from your comment that if
I
can knock jetski slobs off their craft, I can run them over. :-)

No, no, you can't "knock [them -tks] off" with your boat, you must
use something like the Poop cannon holding tank evacuation device to
blow them off, then throw then a bunch of biodegradable T.P., then
you can sail over them over in the confusion, all by accident, of
course.

The undeniable truth we must face is that PWCs will not slice up
manatees like a prop would. They may, however give the manatees huge
linear hickies.

Do you think that would raise their social standing with other
manatees, like the kids seem to think publicly displayed hickies do?

I think the hickies might cause a drop in their population. Think about it:

Mrs Manatee: Hmmm....what's that mark on your neck?
Mr. Manatee: Umm...I ran into a door.
Mrs. Manatee: Yeah right. You can sleep over by that big oyster for the next
month or three, you *******!

Manatees in court
 

Doug,
Only if they're new to the neighborhood and you're one of the locals.
Check this out:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...70/pwchelp.htm
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
This may be a stretch, but I think I can imply from your comment that if I
can knock jetski slobs off their craft, I can run them over. :-)

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
Doug,
Off course not. Stay on topic.:-) Cars no! Now with boats, it's
okay.
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Florida Keyz" wrote in message
...
When I said manatee do not belong here, is because there were
inported
from
West India to miami to eat the plants clogging the cannals.

OK, but so what? They're here. If you move to a new neighborhood and
the
locals don't like your family, is it OK for them to run you down with
their
cars? :-)

Manatees in court
 

Paul:
Thank you for pointing out this idea. I've been designing bow storage for my
14' Lund yacht, and this message arrived just in time for me to relocate
such useless features as anchor brackets and fire extinguisher to make room
for some sort of tripod for the front of the missile. One problem: I don't
see these missiles at the West Marine web site. However, there's a meat
market near me which advertises halel products, for Muslims. Perhaps this
would be a good lead for finding such weaponry.
-Doug

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
Doug,
Only if they're new to the neighborhood and you're one of the locals.
Check this out:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...70/pwchelp.htm
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
This may be a stretch, but I think I can imply from your comment that if
I
can knock jetski slobs off their craft, I can run them over. :-)

"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
Doug,
Off course not. Stay on topic.:-) Cars no! Now with boats, it's
okay.
Paul

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Florida Keyz" wrote in message
...
When I said manatee do not belong here, is because there were
inported
from
West India to miami to eat the plants clogging the cannals.

OK, but so what? They're here. If you move to a new neighborhood and
the
locals don't like your family, is it OK for them to run you down
with
their
cars? :-)

Manatees in court
 

Do you guys feel even a little bad about turning a boating topic to S*it?

Manatees in court
 

"Florida Keyz" wrote in message
...
When I said manatee do not belong here, is because there were inported
from
West India to miami to eat the plants clogging the cannals.

Info from SaveTheManatee.org:

Fossil remains of manatee ancestors show they have inhabited Florida for
about 45 million years. Modern manatees have been in Florida for over one
million years (probably with intermittent absences during the Ice Ages);
i.e., a lot longer than people have lived here. The present Florida manatee
(Trichechus manatus latirostris) is a subspecies endemic to Florida. Genetic
studies to date indicate that it is not derived from the populations in
Mexico or Central America, but more likely colonized Florida from the
Greater Antilles thousands of years ago, after the last Ice Age. However,
there is no evidence that manatees are now entering Florida from Central
America, the Caribbean, or anywhere else. The manatees in Florida today have
every right to be considered Florida natives.

David S.

Manatees in court
 

All the fossil evidence proves is the manatee died here not that they thrived
here. I suspect they migrated south in the winter and the ones who stayed,
died. It is certain they weren't holed up in a 2 mile stretch of the Okeechobee
water way next to a power plant. I also find it interesting that SMC sued to
make FPL heat the water from this plant when an efficiency upgrade lowered the
temperature of the discharge water.
The heat source IS pollution as defined in the Endangered Species Act but SMC
won't let them mitigate it. I think SMC leaders need dead manatees to sustain
their phony baloney jobs. Otherwise why do they force FPL to attract them to
the ONLY east west water route across Florida? It's like putting a salt lick in
the middle of I-75 and then wondering why all the deer keep getting hit.

Manatees in court
 

On 06 Mar 2004 06:20:31 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

I suspect they migrated south in the winter and the ones who stayed,
died.

You suspect? Now there's sound scientific proof of nothing.

It is certain they weren't holed up in a 2 mile stretch of the Okeechobee
water way next to a power plant.

No, more likely in many of the natural springs along the coast.

I think SMC leaders need dead manatees to sustain
their phony baloney jobs.

That's what you get for thinking.

bb

Manatees in court
 

Hey....you've got to admit that if SMC tried to get a power plant to make
its effluent water warmer, there's some flawed thinking going on all over
this debate. It seems to be a Florida problem. I don't hear salmon fishermen
complaining around here when the state talks about closing some old
coal-fired plants whose warm water attracts those fish.

Manatees in court
 

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:17:06 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
you've got to admit that if SMC tried to get a power plant to make
its effluent water warmer, there's some flawed thinking going on all over
this debate.

====================

You bet. The SMC not only tried, they won the case. How ludicrous is
that? Our tax payer dollars at work -- in some really perverse ways.

Manatees are nothing but road kill on the road of life. They are dumb
and slow, and that's why they get hit. Porpoises by the hundreds
frolic in and around SWFL boating channels all of the time and never,
ever get hit.

Callous? Perhaps, but that IS the reality.

We already have a Manatee County and a Manatee River. Now we need a
Manatee Grill.

Manatees in court
 

The fact still remains thart fossils only prove an animal died here, not that
it was successful living here. Most of those natural springs are gone too.
Maybe the SMC should go into the cities and turn off all the water taps. Lets
see how successful they are at shutting down the golf courses and water parks.
Maybe they could eliminate "new home" starts.

Manatees in court
 

On 06 Mar 2004 16:00:57 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

The fact still remains thart fossils only prove an animal died here, not that
it was successful living here.

Are you suggesting Florida was a manatee graveyard for millions of
years, where they came only to die after living successful lives
elsewhere? Why do you suppose manatees came to Florida to die? And
why do you suppose foreign manatees suddenly stopped coming here to
die?

Most of those natural springs are gone too.

Where did they go?

Maybe the SMC should go into the cities and turn off all the water taps.

Is that what they mean by hyperbole?

Lets
see how successful they are at shutting down the golf courses and water parks.

Is that more hyperbole?

Maybe they could eliminate "new home" starts.

And more?

bb

Manatees in court
 

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:44:50 GMT, wrote:

Are you suggesting Florida was a manatee graveyard for millions of
years, where they came only to die after living successful lives
elsewhere? Why do you suppose manatees came to Florida to die?

Thousands of people still flock to Florida to die after living successful lives
elsewhere.

And, it should be noted, as annoying as they are, it's illegal to run
them over with your powerboats also.

bb

Manatees in court
 

Look at the bright side, it didn't go political. But just for you I'll end
my participation in this off topic.
Paul

"Florida Keyz" wrote in message
...
Do you guys feel even a little bad about turning a boating topic to S*it?

Manatees in court
 

"Greg" wrote in message
...
The fact still remains thart fossils only prove an animal died here, not
that
it was successful living here. Most of those natural springs are gone too.
Maybe the SMC should go into the cities and turn off all the water taps.
Lets
see how successful they are at shutting down the golf courses and water
parks.
Maybe they could eliminate "new home" starts.

Actually, golf courses are (rightly) the subject of excessive water usage,
and for being some of the worst point-source chemical sites in the country.
But hey - oncologists have to live, too.

Manatees in court
 

"bb" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:44:50 GMT, wrote:

Are you suggesting Florida was a manatee graveyard for millions of
years, where they came only to die after living successful lives
elsewhere? Why do you suppose manatees came to Florida to die?

Thousands of people still flock to Florida to die after living successful
lives
elsewhere.

And, it should be noted, as annoying as they are, it's illegal to run
them over with your powerboats also.

But there are no "elderly zones" in Florida requiring you to drop your speed
to idle...not even in front of the retirement homes.

Manatees in court
 

Manatee MIGRATE when there are no artificial sources of hot water. The ones
that don't move to warmer water DIE. (aproximately 68f degree water or colder
will kill them) That's from Mote Marine Lab.


Most of those natural springs are gone too.

Where did they go?


The water was pumped out for the people living here. My artesian well is now at
14' down.
It is clear you are probably someone from Chicago or somewhere who really
doesn't have a clue what is going on in the areas that are affected by these
manatee rules.
The JUDGE said the manatee speed laws in Lee County have no basis in science
when they were thrown out. They were drawn simply to placate polititians and
the SMC bearing no reflection on the science of where the manatee go.
There is NOBODY from DEP, USF&G or Fish and Wildlife who are monitoring
manatee on a regular basis. I work with them, I know that.

Manatees in court
 

On 07 Mar 2004 03:37:41 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

It is clear you are probably someone from Chicago or somewhere who really
doesn't have a clue what is going on in the areas that are affected by these
manatee rules.

It's clear, once again, you don't let ignorance keep you from running
your mouth. I've lived on Florida's west coast since 1957. I make my
living on the water, and have for 25 years. I'm very familiar with
the manatee issue on a first hand basis.

If you repeat your lies and misinformation enough times, Greg, no
doubt you'll find someone who will believe you.

bb

Manatees in court
 

Where are you "making your living" on the water? Lee County? That is what we
are talking about

Manatees in court
 

On 07 Mar 2004 05:47:29 GMT, (Greg) wrote:

Where are you "making your living" on the water? Lee County? That is what we
are talking about

Florida, including Lee County. Are you under the mistaken impression
manatees are restricted to Lee County?

bb

Manatees in court
 

Too right Wayne,
The manatee was about to win the Darwin Award for being unfit. We the
humans have decreed they are too big, fat and stupid to die out. Hence, the
SMC and a bunch of uninformed loud typers from snow country want to decide
the fate of local river usage and kill off the marine industry.

Probabaly never dodged a manatee in their lives.



--
Capt. Frank

__c
\ _ | \_
__\_| oooo \_____
~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~
www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:17:06 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
you've got to admit that if SMC tried to get a power plant to make
its effluent water warmer, there's some flawed thinking going on all
over
this debate.

====================

You bet. The SMC not only tried, they won the case. How ludicrous is
that? Our tax payer dollars at work -- in some really perverse ways.

Manatees are nothing but road kill on the road of life. They are dumb
and slow, and that's why they get hit. Porpoises by the hundreds
frolic in and around SWFL boating channels all of the time and never,
ever get hit.

Callous? Perhaps, but that IS the reality.

We already have a Manatee County and a Manatee River. Now we need a
Manatee Grill.

Manatees in court
 

"Don White" wrote in message news:A%w1c.109822
Scotty, you see, has a doctorate in sociology and statistical research,
and has conducted several surveys before proclaiming that most larger
sailboats are owned by folks with larger houses who also have 747s,
indoor swimming pools and SUVs.

Me, I think he drinks out of the varnish cup.

Wow, I was packing for a move to the USA. If that's the lifestyle of the
average American sailor.....the one's up here would be poor country cousins
by comparison.

Do you ever speak from direct knowledge or experience, or is it just
that you don't like my politics? I live in Essex CT. one of the
wealthiest per capita towns in the country on the banks of the CT
River... Many of the large sailboats and boaters meet those conditions
I noted above. Apparently you do not meet the description, so why
should you get into this one? I guess it is ok for only you to throw
around generalities and observations based on political agenda, but
for me to talk from direct experience, you are still nothing but a
political whore here, no more credibility than your buddy Harry...

Manatees in court
 

The "court" case refers to Matlacha Pass, Estero Bay, San Carlos Bay and some
of the Caloosahatchee river where speed zones have no relation to actual
manatee activity or any scientific basis in their implimentation. That is what
the court said anyway. I tend to agree when you have a 25MPH limit in the
places deep enough to actually hold a manatee and "slow" speed in places that
won't. A Manatee in 2-3 feet of water is not going to go unnoticed. His ass
will be out of the water.

Manatees in court
 

Backyard Renegade wrote in message
Do you ever speak from direct knowledge or experience, or is it just
that you don't like my politics? I live in Essex CT. one of the
wealthiest per capita towns in the country on the banks of the CT
River... Many of the large sailboats and boaters meet those conditions
I noted above. Apparently you do not meet the description, so why
should you get into this one? I guess it is ok for only you to throw
around generalities and observations based on political agenda, but
for me to talk from direct experience, you are still nothing but a
political whore here, no more credibility than your buddy Harry...

Political whore??? Gee.... no one has ever called me that before!.

Manatees in court
 

wrote in message
...

Essex isn't even close to being one of the wealthiest towns in
Connecticut, much
less the whole country. It's a very nice little village where the per
capita
income is $34,083. Compare that to even a few random examples: Old Lyme,
$35,151, Redding, $53,848, Darien, 75,165, Lyme, $41,406, Madison,
$41,076,
Sheman, $46,621, Stamford (which is a large city whose average is dragged
down
by the usual urban problems) $38,481. Essex isn't especially poverty
stricken,
but it's hardly a den of high income, either. Essex is surrounded by other
similarly ranked towns, namely Deep River and Chester. We call that area
"Deep
Chessex" for short. It's a nice, small, solid middle-class community with
a
quaint business district. They have a nice little sailor's hangout that I
won't
name ( ****k ***L) because it's already too crowded.

BB

He he.... Thanks Bill.
Poor old Backdoor Reamer seems to have trouble getting his facts straight
lately.
Could it be all that contact cement he breaths in?

Manatees in court
 

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:00:07 GMT, wrote:

They have a nice little sailor's hangout that I won't
name ( ****k ***L) because it's already too crowded.

===============================

And of course there's always Ye Olde G******* I** and the infinite
popcorn supply.