If you now or previously owned one how long did it take you to learn to
maneuver it properly at low speeds, most especially in reverse and in wind?

I have always owned either outboards or IO's, including twin IO's (most
recently with counter rotating props) that normally made docking a breeze.

My friend owns a vintage 26' Lyman with single screw. He (and his sons) can
walk the boat alongside a dock without effort. I have been on the boat when
his oldest son (now a US Marine proudly serving in Iraq) walked the boat
into a 30 or so foot dockside space (boats in front and at the aft). It was
indeed a pleasure to watch.

I have owned both I/O and inboard. With the inboard you just learn how to
use the physics of the screw to "prop walk" the boat to the dock. Since I
started with an I/O, and did most of my learning there, I found I was able
to dock the inboard boat after a few times of playing around.


"JimH" wrote in message
...
If you now or previously owned one how long did it take you to learn to
maneuver it properly at low speeds, most especially in reverse and in
wind?

I have always owned either outboards or IO's, including twin IO's (most
recently with counter rotating props) that normally made docking a breeze.

My friend owns a vintage 26' Lyman with single screw. He (and his sons)
can walk the boat alongside a dock without effort. I have been on the
boat when his oldest son (now a US Marine proudly serving in Iraq) walked
the boat into a 30 or so foot dockside space (boats in front and at the
aft). It was indeed a pleasure to watch.

If you now or previously owned one how long did it take you to learn to

maneuver it properly at low speeds, most especially in reverse and in
wind?

***************
You never stop learning.

Each situation is different, and not all are possible to specifically
rehearse in advance.

One needs to put the boat into the slip *mentally* and develop a game
plan (taking wind, current, and known characteristics of an individual
boat into account) before ever getting into a tight spot.

The most important consideration, IMO, is understanding how the boat
will walk in reverse.
Depending on LH or RH prop, the boat will back to port or starboard.
Proper boat handling acknowledges, rather than ignores, this "ism" and
uses the phenomenon to control the stern when docking as well as when
reversing in general.

It would be interesting to understand what you define as "walking" a
single screw to the dock.
If you mean moving the bow and stern simultaneously to approach the
dock beam-to
from several feet away that's a manuever not usually accomplished
without a thruster. The more common practice is to place the bow near
where it needs to go and then bring the stern around the pivot point to
the dock. One needs to allow for some forward movement of the bow when
pivoting, but it is no trick at all to put a 36' single screw into 40
or so feet of float space with vessels moored fore and aft- with some
practice.

One excellent concept to appreciate is that you want to dock to the
outside, rather than the inside of a circle. That can make a huge
difference. You see guys turn into a slip from the "wrong" direction
all the time, where they are being forced against a neighboring boat
rather than against the float. It's often better to pick a slip that
allows you to make an outside turn, or proceed down the fairway, do a
U-turn, and come back (that will change the dynamics of the docking
circle).. I have found this is important with any boat, but more
particularly with a single screw than some other configurations.

Steering in reverse is a challenge. Some boats do better than others.
Mine does rather well, but backing up over a great distance and with
any accuracy means paying constant attention to the effects of prop and
rudder. Example: My boat backs to starboard. To back up in a straight
line, I turn the wheel to port. At very low rpm, the boat tends to
follow its big rudder rather than the prop walk, and the boat will back
to port. With a little more engine speed, the rudder and the prop walk
eventually achieve a sort of "balance" and the boat will back
relatively straight. At a higher engine speed, the prop walk overwhelms
the rudder and the boat backs to starboard. Even so, there's no shame
in using a bit of forward thrust to "straighten out"
partway through a long backing, particularl in a ross wind or current.

Around 4/6/2005 3:16 PM, wrote:

If you now or previously owned one how long did it take you to learn to
maneuver it properly at low speeds, most especially in reverse and in
wind?

***************
You never stop learning.

Each situation is different, and not all are possible to specifically
rehearse in advance.

Absolutely!


snip

Steering in reverse is a challenge. Some boats do better than others.
Mine does rather well, but backing up over a great distance and with
any accuracy means paying constant attention to the effects of prop and
rudder. Example: My boat backs to starboard. To back up in a straight
line, I turn the wheel to port. At very low rpm, the boat tends to
follow its big rudder rather than the prop walk, and the boat will back
to port. With a little more engine speed, the rudder and the prop walk
eventually achieve a sort of "balance" and the boat will back
relatively straight.

My dad's Chris is fairly tricky to reverse. When backing out of our
slip, he doesn't even have to touch the wheel, just leaves it hard to
port. She reverses a bit to starboard even with the rudder hard over to
port, but when shifted into forward with a few more RPMs it'll kick the
stern around pretty quickly.

I prefer my boat with it's outboard for any length of reversing though.

--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

JimH wrote:
If you now or previously owned one how long did it take you to learn to
maneuver it properly at low speeds, most especially in reverse and in wind?

I have always owned either outboards or IO's, including twin IO's (most
recently with counter rotating props) that normally made docking a breeze.

My friend owns a vintage 26' Lyman with single screw. He (and his sons) can
walk the boat alongside a dock without effort. I have been on the boat when
his oldest son (now a US Marine proudly serving in Iraq) walked the boat
into a 30 or so foot dockside space (boats in front and at the aft). It was
indeed a pleasure to watch.



I can't remember how long it was so long ago, but I don't have to do any
thinking about it... just planning. Our Correct Craft is kept in a R&G
sling hoist, with a prevailing wind from the stern. Right hand prop,
stern walks to port in reverse. I never had a problem adapting to my
friend's MasterCraft, either, it walks to starboard with a LH prop.

My brother & sister cannot get the hang of the inboard for some reason.

All you have to do is take your time & let the wind & current help you,
and that does require coming in on the proper side for the conditions.

Rob

All you have to do is take your time & let the wind & current help you,

and that does require coming in on the proper side for the conditions.


Rob


**************

Not sure about you, but I usually prefer to go upwind and upstream. I
find it easier to maintain control when applying a bit of power to
overcome moderate wind or current
than to hope the wind or current doesn't slam me into the dock. My
personal version of "help" from the wind and current is a steadying
force rather than unwanted pushing and dragging beyond the point where
I hope to stop the boat.

One exception: And this may be where Jim H thinks he observed somebody
"walking" a single screw beam-to. If I can catch a moderate wind
blowing directly onto the dock in a side tie situation it's always fun
to stop a few feet away and simply let Mama Nature
plant the fenders against the bull rail in a flawlessly orchestrated,
simultaneous kiss. Ther bow blows in slightly faster than the stern- so
there's a slight angle required at the stop for perfect execution. It
does impress the dock gawkers. :-) Downside to this, of course, is
that it is then tougher to get off the dock unless the wind changes. By
coming in upwind to the other side of the dock, (when that option is
available) it is a lot easier to clear the dock on departure since,
(unless it changes), the wind will help blow you clear of nearby boats
until you have sufficient room to manuever.

Lots of variables. Every docking is a new puzzle to solve.

On 6 Apr 2005 18:18:12 -0700, wrote:
Downside to this, of course, is
that it is then tougher to get off the dock unless the wind changes. By
coming in upwind to the other side of the dock, (when that option is
available) it is a lot easier to clear the dock on departure since,
(unless it changes), the wind will help blow you clear of nearby boats
until you have sufficient room to manuever.

===============================================

My solution to getting off docks is to motor forward against a spring
line with the helm hardover towards the dock. The propwash will kick
the stern out, at which point you can clear the spring line and
reverse out to open water. Works for me.

My solution to getting off docks is to motor forward against a spring
line with the helm hardover towards the dock. The propwash will kick
the stern out, at which point you can clear the spring line and
reverse out to open water. Works for me.

*************

With the wind holding you fast against the dock, that is indeed the
best way, in my opinion, to get away.

You don't mess with a spring line when there's a moderate wind on the
dockside beam, do you?

On 7 Apr 2005 09:46:52 -0700, wrote:

You don't mess with a spring line when there's a moderate wind on the
dockside beam, do you?

============================

Not if the wind is going to push me away cleanly. The spring line is
really not a big thing however as long as there is a convenient dock
piling. We just take the the line once aroung the piling and bring it
back through a hawse pipe to a cleat. As soon as the stern is out
where I want it, Mrs B clears the spring line, and I back the boat
out.

Our new GB is actually a twin engine boat but I like to get on and off
the dock in front of our house using just the outside prop to avoid
stirring up canal mud at low tide.

Sometimes it seems you never quit learning. Just when you think you've got
it all figured out, it decides to do something different.
Mine is a double ended planing hull so the rudder is very small which makes
reversing very tricky.
Gordon

"JimH" wrote in message
...
If you now or previously owned one how long did it take you to learn to
maneuver it properly at low speeds, most especially in reverse and in
wind?

I have always owned either outboards or IO's, including twin IO's (most
recently with counter rotating props) that normally made docking a breeze.

My friend owns a vintage 26' Lyman with single screw. He (and his sons)
can
walk the boat alongside a dock without effort. I have been on the boat
when
his oldest son (now a US Marine proudly serving in Iraq) walked the boat
into a 30 or so foot dockside space (boats in front and at the aft). It
was
indeed a pleasure to watch.