Wh invented the hose clamp?
 

Short Wave Sportfishing,
WWW.Snoops.com disagrees with you. Please see
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.htm
Paul

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 18 Feb 2004 05:12:01 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
message . ..
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:33:13 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:24:07 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

While working on the engine, I was once again impressed by the
Elegant
Simplicity of the lowly hose clamp. They just work. Anybody know who
invented
them?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36 - MANY hose clamps!

I'd probably give the credit to Al Gore. He invented most everything
else, didn't he?

Nah - just the Internet and Erich Segal. :)

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT

You righties are so blind that you don't understand, even after it's
been beaten to death, that Al Gore NEVER said he invented the
internet.

You have no evidence of my personal and/or political philosophy thus
the "rightie" label is not only uncalled for, it is completely and
totally inaccurate.

On to your second comment:

Al Gore said, and this is the exact quote:

"During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative
in creating the Internet."

Now read that anyway you want - it can be parsed several ways, but the
claim is that HE - Al Gore - singlehandedly "INITIATED the CREATION of
the Internet".

Now, lets' examine two words here - Initated: "To introduce by a first
act; to make a beginning with; to set afoot; to originate; to
commence; to begin or enter upon." Invented: "To discover, as by
study or inquiry; to find out; to devise; to contrive or produce for
the first time; -- applied commonly to the discovery of some
serviceable mode, instrument, or machine."

Oh hell, let's examine one more word - Creation: "An original product
of human invention or artistic imagination."

One can reasonably argue that Initiated, Invented and Creation have
relatively the same context - in short, to set in motion the creation
of something; an idea, a concept, a manufacture of some sort.

I'm sure you, being an astute and self-aware Protoctista, can
understand how the original quote morphed into the popular electoral
folk tale of "Al Gore Invented the Internet" because, parsed seven
different ways from Sunday, that is exactly what he said whether he
intended to or not.

In essence, the contributions of Cerf and Kahn were instigated by Al
Gore according to Al Gore. Which, I have seen reported but do not have
personal knowledge of, they deny.

Now, to give Al Gore some credit, he was the first Congressman to use
a computer to distill facts and use mid/late-'70s technology to
prioritize that which would be quantified with a comuter. So he was
way ahead of the curve on that front.

However, the context of his statement about "...initiating" the
Internet morphed into popular lore as "invented" and that's the way it
is. If you don't like it, then tough.

Go do your knee jerking with somebody else - I'm not interested.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern

Wh invented the hose clamp?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:56:10 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing,
WWW.Snoops.com disagrees with you. Please see
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.htm

Fine - reasonable people can agree to disagree.

My opinion is my opinion - just that.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern

Wh invented the hose clamp?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:56:10 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing,
WWW.Snoops.com disagrees with you. Please see
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.htm
Paul

Snopes.com is using the fact that they know Al Gore did not invent the
internet to justify what he said. The quote and the context is there
for all to plainly see and a strict english parsing of it leads to the
conclusion that Al Gore "created" the internet. If you take the
statement at face value without any other information available, it's a
reasonable to assume that Al Gore claimed to create the internet.

It's only the fact that they know he didn't create the internet that
they can look for an alternate meaning for what he said.

Point of fact, he didn't claim to invent the internet. He claimed to
take the initiative to create it. And that is what snopes.com is saying
is false, that he didn't claim to "invent" the internet. Snopes.com
says the words create and invent don't mean the same thing. Maybe not,
but they are pretty close and can be used in the definitions of
eachother. I.e., invent - to create something that hasn't existed
before. To create something for the first time.

Steve

Wh invented the hose clamp?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:49:34 GMT, wrote:

I did. The article to which I posted a link says that "No Reasonable
Person" could interpret what Gore actually said as a claim that he
invented the internet. Are you a reasonable person?

The article you posted (snopes) is wrong in this case. Taking Gore's
statement at face value, any reasonable person would interpret what Gore
said as a claim that he invented the internet *if* they didn't know from
other sources that he didn't.

Steve

Wh invented the hose clamp?
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On 18 Feb 2004 05:12:01 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:33:13 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:24:07 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

While working on the engine, I was once again impressed by the Elegant
Simplicity of the lowly hose clamp. They just work. Anybody know who invented
them?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36 - MANY hose clamps!

I'd probably give the credit to Al Gore. He invented most everything
else, didn't he?

Nah - just the Internet and Erich Segal. :)

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT

You righties are so blind that you don't understand, even after it's
been beaten to death, that Al Gore NEVER said he invented the
internet.

You have no evidence of my personal and/or political philosophy thus
the "rightie" label is not only uncalled for, it is completely and
totally inaccurate.

On to your second comment:

Al Gore said, and this is the exact quote:

"During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative
in creating the Internet."

Now read that anyway you want - it can be parsed several ways, but the
claim is that HE - Al Gore - singlehandedly "INITIATED the CREATION of
the Internet".

Now, lets' examine two words here - Initated: "To introduce by a first
act; to make a beginning with; to set afoot; to originate; to
commence; to begin or enter upon." Invented: "To discover, as by
study or inquiry; to find out; to devise; to contrive or produce for
the first time; -- applied commonly to the discovery of some
serviceable mode, instrument, or machine."

Oh hell, let's examine one more word - Creation: "An original product
of human invention or artistic imagination."

One can reasonably argue that Initiated, Invented and Creation have
relatively the same context - in short, to set in motion the creation
of something; an idea, a concept, a manufacture of some sort.

I'm sure you, being an astute and self-aware Protoctista, can
understand how the original quote morphed into the popular electoral
folk tale of "Al Gore Invented the Internet" because, parsed seven
different ways from Sunday, that is exactly what he said whether he
intended to or not.

In essence, the contributions of Cerf and Kahn were instigated by Al
Gore according to Al Gore. Which, I have seen reported but do not have
personal knowledge of, they deny.

Now, to give Al Gore some credit, he was the first Congressman to use
a computer to distill facts and use mid/late-'70s technology to
prioritize that which would be quantified with a comuter. So he was
way ahead of the curve on that front.

However, the context of his statement about "...initiating" the
Internet morphed into popular lore as "invented" and that's the way it
is. If you don't like it, then tough.

Go do your knee jerking with somebody else - I'm not interested.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern

You analogy is flawed beyond belief. It's one of the worst cases of
spin I've ever seen. "Initiated the creating of" is no where near "I
invented". Someone could easily initiate someone else, as opposed to
"I".

Wh invented the hose clamp?
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
Try reading my reply to basskisser.

I did. The article to which I posted a link says that "No Reasonable
Person" could interpret what Gore actually said as a claim that he
invented the internet. Are you a reasonable person?

Oh yes I am more than reasonable.

Again:
Clearly, although Gore's phrasing was clumsy (and self-serving), he
was not claiming that he "invented" the Internet (in the sense of
having designed or implemented it), but that he was responsible for
helping to create the environment (in an economic and legislative
sense) that fostered the development of the Internet. Al Gore might
not know nearly as much about the Internet and other technologies as
his image would have us believe, and he certainly has been guilty of
stretching (if not outright breaking) the truth before, but to believe
that Gore seriously thought he could take credit for the "invention"
of the Internet — in the sense offered by the media — is just silly.

Wh invented the hose clamp?
 

On 19 Feb 2004 04:27:26 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message
Try reading my reply to basskisser.

I did. The article to which I posted a link says that "No Reasonable
Person" could interpret what Gore actually said as a claim that he
invented the internet. Are you a reasonable person?

Oh yes I am more than reasonable.

Again:
Clearly, although Gore's phrasing was clumsy (and self-serving), he
was not claiming that he "invented" the Internet (in the sense of
having designed or implemented it), but that he was responsible for
helping to create the environment (in an economic and legislative
sense) that fostered the development of the Internet. Al Gore might
not know nearly as much about the Internet and other technologies as
his image would have us believe, and he certainly has been guilty of
stretching (if not outright breaking) the truth before, but to believe
that Gore seriously thought he could take credit for the "invention"
of the Internet — in the sense offered by the media — is just silly.

You clearly know much more about semantic logic, phraseology and the
ins and outs of self-promotion in the political world than I ever did.

I salute you for your perspicacity relative to the subject of "spin".

On to other things.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern

Wh invented the hose clamp?
 

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:54:54 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:46:49 GMT, (Steven Shelikoff) wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:49:34 GMT, wrote:

I did. The article to which I posted a link says that "No Reasonable
Person" could interpret what Gore actually said as a claim that he
invented the internet. Are you a reasonable person?

The article you posted (snopes) is wrong in this case. Taking Gore's
statement at face value, any reasonable person would interpret what Gore
said as a claim that he invented the internet *if* they didn't know from
other sources that he didn't.

I believe they used the word "silly" to describe your position.

And that's the opinion of that particular writer. But the only reason
the writer could possible have that position is because they know from
information other than his statement that his statement is false.

The fact is that Al Gore claimed to take the initative to create the
internet. We *know* that's a silly statement on his part.

Steve

Wh invented the hose clamp?
 

On 19 Feb 2004 04:14:24 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On 18 Feb 2004 05:12:01 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:33:13 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:24:07 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

While working on the engine, I was once again impressed by the Elegant
Simplicity of the lowly hose clamp. They just work. Anybody know who invented
them?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36 - MANY hose clamps!

I'd probably give the credit to Al Gore. He invented most everything
else, didn't he?

Nah - just the Internet and Erich Segal. :)

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT

You righties are so blind that you don't understand, even after it's
been beaten to death, that Al Gore NEVER said he invented the
internet.

You have no evidence of my personal and/or political philosophy thus
the "rightie" label is not only uncalled for, it is completely and
totally inaccurate.

On to your second comment:

Al Gore said, and this is the exact quote:

"During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative
in creating the Internet."

Now read that anyway you want - it can be parsed several ways, but the
claim is that HE - Al Gore - singlehandedly "INITIATED the CREATION of
the Internet".

Now, lets' examine two words here - Initated: "To introduce by a first
act; to make a beginning with; to set afoot; to originate; to
commence; to begin or enter upon." Invented: "To discover, as by
study or inquiry; to find out; to devise; to contrive or produce for
the first time; -- applied commonly to the discovery of some
serviceable mode, instrument, or machine."

Oh hell, let's examine one more word - Creation: "An original product
of human invention or artistic imagination."

One can reasonably argue that Initiated, Invented and Creation have
relatively the same context - in short, to set in motion the creation
of something; an idea, a concept, a manufacture of some sort.

I'm sure you, being an astute and self-aware Protoctista, can
understand how the original quote morphed into the popular electoral
folk tale of "Al Gore Invented the Internet" because, parsed seven
different ways from Sunday, that is exactly what he said whether he
intended to or not.

In essence, the contributions of Cerf and Kahn were instigated by Al
Gore according to Al Gore. Which, I have seen reported but do not have
personal knowledge of, they deny.

Now, to give Al Gore some credit, he was the first Congressman to use
a computer to distill facts and use mid/late-'70s technology to
prioritize that which would be quantified with a comuter. So he was
way ahead of the curve on that front.

However, the context of his statement about "...initiating" the
Internet morphed into popular lore as "invented" and that's the way it
is. If you don't like it, then tough.

Go do your knee jerking with somebody else - I'm not interested.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern

You analogy is flawed beyond belief. It's one of the worst cases of
spin I've ever seen. "Initiated the creating of" is no where near "I
invented". Someone could easily initiate someone else, as opposed to
"I".

basskisser, you are arguing *way* out of your league. Stick with
saying, "I agree with what Harry said."

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Wh invented the hose clamp?
 

Tom,
I agree that we should all be reasonable and polite. I have a hard time
understanding why so many what to be rude and unreasonable. How can anyone
expect to change someone's opinion by first alienating them. Politeness is
the grease of civilization. I don't have a problem when someone else's
opinion differs from mine, others can't seem to accept this.
Paul

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:56:10 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing,
WWW.Snoops.com disagrees with you. Please see
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.htm

Fine - reasonable people can agree to disagree.

My opinion is my opinion - just that.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern