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depth finder issues
it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in
the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the water, done now. I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder. The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400." What do you poeple think? |
depth finder issues
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depth finder issues
"Richard Malcolm"
Hey Rich! I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so. There's your problem. You should go back to boating 12 months per year like you used to ;) hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400." I think stand-alone depth finders (that aren't also a GPS or integrated to any other system) seem to be in the $120 to $220 range. Some are more expensive but are specialized in some way. So if the unit is, say, $200 and he's charging you some profit and some labor ... I'd say $400 seems a little high. Putting in a depth finder doesn't take that long. Especially if you are having him to other work and are paying for storage etc. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer I think it's more like "many of them do that" because it's so easy to not install them correctly. It would make me nervous to spend $400 on that job and then if it doesn't work he'll just say, "Well, I told you they all do that." Not sure what you can do about it though. We could put one in ourselves (I'm willing to help) which might give us more thought about where it's placed and save on any markup he's adding to the price. It the boat in MA or RI? Is there an opportunity for us to work on it or would the yard not allow that? If you have him do it - maybe try to get more information from him about where he'd place it and try to get him to commit more to a working unit. So - it the current one a thru-hull, in-hull, or transom mount? What about the new one he wants to install? Gary THRU-HULL: A hole is made in the hull and the transeiver is mounted into that hole. The transeiver actually comes into contact with the water. IN-HULL: The transeiver sets inside the hull mounted in oil or some epoxy-like substance. The sound pulses actually shoot "through-the-hull". This works on fiberglass boats so long as there are no air-pockets between the transducer and the water. TRANSOM: Mounted on the transom. |
depth finder issues
"Gary Warner" wrote in message ... "Richard Malcolm" Hey Rich! I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so. There's your problem. You should go back to boating 12 months per year like you used to ;) hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400." I think stand-alone depth finders (that aren't also a GPS or integrated to any other system) seem to be in the $120 to $220 range. Some are more expensive but are specialized in some way. So if the unit is, say, $200 and he's charging you some profit and some labor ... I'd say $400 seems a little high. Putting in a depth finder doesn't take that long. Especially if you are having him to other work and are paying for storage etc. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer I think it's more like "many of them do that" because it's so easy to not install them correctly. It would make me nervous to spend $400 on that job and then if it doesn't work he'll just say, "Well, I told you they all do that." Not sure what you can do about it though. We could put one in ourselves (I'm willing to help) which might give us more thought about where it's placed and save on any markup he's adding to the price. It the boat in MA or RI? Is there an opportunity for us to work on it or would the yard not allow that? If you have him do it - maybe try to get more information from him about where he'd place it and try to get him to commit more to a working unit. So - it the current one a thru-hull, in-hull, or transom mount? What about the new one he wants to install? Gary THRU-HULL: A hole is made in the hull and the transeiver is mounted into that hole. The transeiver actually comes into contact with the water. IN-HULL: The transeiver sets inside the hull mounted in oil or some epoxy-like substance. The sound pulses actually shoot "through-the-hull". This works on fiberglass boats so long as there are no air-pockets between the transducer and the water. TRANSOM: Mounted on the transom. A 25' 4 winns is not the boat for a Humminbird! Decent, not great, inland water depthfinder. If you have a through hull now, check that it is not behind a thru-hull for something else. It may need a highspeed fairing block, Talk to your local good marine electronics supplier. Since you happen to be in Boston from your email, us Westerner's can not recommend someone. Bill |
depth finder issues
My first reaction is the wiring or the mounting; they don't all do that.
A poor electrical ground connection can cause anything to not work or be erratic. Transducers must be correctly mounted so that they are in clear, non turbulent water. $400 for parts and labor is not unreasonable, but I wouldn't pay your mechanic to do a job that he doesn't think you should expect to work reliably. "Richard Malcolm" wrote in message om... it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the water, done now. I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder. The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400." What do you poeple think? |
depth finder issues
IMOHO - Based on my experience with both, I would find out why the Garmin
isn't working properly. I would rather have a cheap Garmin than an expensive Huminbird. Check your cable for frays/breaks but most importantly, check your transducer installation. If you don't have a manual , you can probably get it at http://www.garmin.com -- Bill Chesapeake, Va "Richard Malcolm" wrote in message om... it is that time of year again. I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so. When it is not in the water it is at some marine storage area. Since I don't own a trailor, I have my local four winns people winterize it. Since I don't have a trailer, I must get everything that needs to be done to it when it is out of the water, done now. I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder. The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid to high speeds. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400." What do you poeple think? |
depth finder issues
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depth finder issues
Check your transducer placement. I have a similar setup and mine work
almost all the time. The small dash meters transducer is mounted on the transom, and I mounted the garmin transducer in the bilge by making an angled collar out of the top of a spray-paint can and putting the 'ducer into it with some silicone glue. I guess your hull construction materials will determine if a shoot-thru-the-hull method will work to your satisfaction. Also, if your hull has chines that will funnel air bubbles then you should avoid placing the transducer over those channels. The high frequency sound has to pass through the plastic transducer, the mount adhesive, the hull layers, and the water column......then back through them all again to be received. Air is not a good conductor of this signal. I have read about placing the transducer in an oil bath container, but don't know if it works better. Most of the reccomendations I've read say to use a harder epoxy-type mount, but I wanted to use silicone in case the bilge location proved to be troublesome. You would think that the manufacturers would have some side-by-side comparison information on the efficacy of the various mounting methods and transducer options. |
depth finder issues
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depth finder issues
Hi Gary, perhaps you should have a look at JRC's offerings. Their integrated system is the cat's meow, I am not sure how a Radome would look on the Deliala though. I am using a Paramount 3d, black and white display, with paddle wheel speed and temp sensor, with a through the hull transducer. Note that I had to level the area of hull it was being mounted in. I used marine-tex for this and to "glue" the xducer down. (MAKE SURE to get the transducer level, side to side, and fore to aft, before the marine-tex begins to set up.) This allows the readings to be taken from near the centerline where the hull is always in the water, and at its deepest point.(Just in front of the engine, but behind the fuel.) It also avoids prop turbulance, and bubbles are at a minimum in that area. -- Capt. Frank __c \ _ | \_ __\_| oooo \_____ ~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~ www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks "Gary Warner" wrote in message ... "Richard Malcolm" Hey Rich! I have a 25' four winns that I keep in the water for 8 months or so. There's your problem. You should go back to boating 12 months per year like you used to ;) hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400." I think stand-alone depth finders (that aren't also a GPS or integrated to any other system) seem to be in the $120 to $220 range. Some are more expensive but are specialized in some way. So if the unit is, say, $200 and he's charging you some profit and some labor ... I'd say $400 seems a little high. Putting in a depth finder doesn't take that long. Especially if you are having him to other work and are paying for storage etc. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer I think it's more like "many of them do that" because it's so easy to not install them correctly. It would make me nervous to spend $400 on that job and then if it doesn't work he'll just say, "Well, I told you they all do that." Not sure what you can do about it though. We could put one in ourselves (I'm willing to help) which might give us more thought about where it's placed and save on any markup he's adding to the price. It the boat in MA or RI? Is there an opportunity for us to work on it or would the yard not allow that? If you have him do it - maybe try to get more information from him about where he'd place it and try to get him to commit more to a working unit. So - it the current one a thru-hull, in-hull, or transom mount? What about the new one he wants to install? Gary THRU-HULL: A hole is made in the hull and the transeiver is mounted into that hole. The transeiver actually comes into contact with the water. IN-HULL: The transeiver sets inside the hull mounted in oil or some epoxy-like substance. The sound pulses actually shoot "through-the-hull". This works on fiberglass boats so long as there are no air-pockets between the transducer and the water. TRANSOM: Mounted on the transom. |
depth finder issues
thanks gary
I just got back from looking under and around the boat. It is in quincy. it has 2 depth finders and one has a transom mount and I am not sure but think that the other is thru hull. there is two things off of the transom, one black box thing (garmin transducer)and another clear or white plastic finger (maybe that is for the built in speedometer) hee hee- the days before GPS. how funny I think that we would have no problem working on the boat but I can ask just to be sure. no one is around this week as they are moving boats for the boats show talk to you soon |
depth finder issues
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:02:21 +0000, WRH wrote:
IMOHO - Based on my experience with both, I would find out why the Garmin isn't working properly. I would rather have a cheap Garmin than an expensive Huminbird. Check your cable for frays/breaks but most importantly, check your transducer installation. If you don't have a manual , you can probably get it at http://www.garmin.com While I don't agree about the brand issue (I have two Humminbirds and they both work great), I WOULD agree that you should find out why your existing setup isn't working. Most "mid to high speed" problems are associated with the transducer, and all the sounders have basically the same ones. I'd hate to put out $400 and end up with the same problem... Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
depth finder issues
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:00:35 +0000, FishFan wrote:
I have a Garmin that worked fine at speed for awhile but then began cutting out at planing speed. Turns out the cheap plastic release mechanism (and that's making it sound more complex then it is)that allows the transducer to swing up if you hit something was relasing with very little load - like the load applied at planing speeds. That's EXACTLY what happened to the transom-mount Humminbird on my Campion! Sounds like a common problem... Lloyd Sumpter (previously) "Valkyrie" Campion 18 |
depth finder issues
Most transducers are made by the same company. Mine has an adjustment to
alter the force needed to break it loose. Have you checked if there's an adjustment? "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:00:35 +0000, FishFan wrote: I have a Garmin that worked fine at speed for awhile but then began cutting out at planing speed. Turns out the cheap plastic release mechanism (and that's making it sound more complex then it is)that allows the transducer to swing up if you hit something was relasing with very little load - like the load applied at planing speeds. That's EXACTLY what happened to the transom-mount Humminbird on my Campion! Sounds like a common problem... Lloyd Sumpter (previously) "Valkyrie" Campion 18 |
depth finder issues
"Richard Malcolm" wrote in message I have a Garmin GPS/Sounder and a small round in-dash depth finder. The built in round one hardly works and the Garmen works poorly at mid to high speeds. First off, I would check the built in one carefully. Many of these in dash units have a sensitivity adjustment, which is often a small screw type knob in the back. It may just be that yours needs a little tweak. If you tell us the make and model we might be able to help you out. If you can get to the back of the dash, look at the depth sounder and see if there is a small screw driver slot, possibly marked "sensitivity". Note where it is adjusted now, in case you want to put it back. If the sensitivity is too low it will have trouble getting any reading at all in deeper water. If the sensitivity is too high, it will get false readings, especially in shallow water. Be careful that the unit is not indicating twice or three times the actual depth. when you are in very shallow water. As for operating poorly at speed, this is usually either due to sound/vibration from the engine interferring with the sounder or water turbulence creating air bubbles under the transducer. The transducer should be mounted off to one side of the keel and NOT behind any thru hull fittings. My mechanic says that they all do that, but he suggest replacing the in-dash one with a new one and new transducer, perhaps a hummingbird. "Total cost for parts and labor around $400." What do you poeple think? I think that your could do this yourself and save $250. Why do you need two depth sounders anyway? Rod |
depth finder issues
" Thanks everyone, you guys are great
I will have to wait a little longer to find out who makes the depth finder that is built into the dash. The boat is still shrinkwrapped and as much as I hate to admit it, winter is far from over in Boston. When I can get back into the boat, I will check the sensitivity of the in-dash. Also I suspect that the Garmin needs the transducer to be adjusted, Maybe there are even barnicles on it. I will check that out. The reason that I have 2 depth finders is that the boat had one ( which did not work well) and I brought the Garmin GPS/Depth finder over from a previous boat. ( needed a GPS) I also read on the Garmin site that 2 depth finders could interfere with each other dependeing on the frequency of the 2. (As a guy who makes a living working with wireless microphones for musicals, I am all too aware of conflicting frequency issues) Again, I will have to wait a little while before I remove the shrink wrap to find out what the in dash one is, and then figure out what it's frequency is. thanks again please send more if you think of anything PS Boy it is great to be thinking of boat problems again! |
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