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OT--And this Year's Nobel Peace Prize Goes to...
"bb" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:14:58 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: Bush! He's been nominated...along with Tony Blair, for protecting World Peace. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in600270.shtml One of 173 nominees. Looks like his chances of a Nobel are about the same as a second term, if there's any justice in the world. 173 out over 6 billion people in this World. What percentile would that put him in? |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:51:43 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: I'm just reporting what I heard on another forum...and it sounded a little far-fetched to me. Well, I must admit.... that certainly isn't out of character for you..... Read again, Gene. I didn't state it so "matter-of-factly" as you imply. Instead, I asked if anybody else heard that they require a 100-hour service that may cost $1000. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
NOYB wrote:
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:51:43 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: I'm just reporting what I heard on another forum...and it sounded a little far-fetched to me. Well, I must admit.... that certainly isn't out of character for you..... Read again, Gene. I didn't state it so "matter-of-factly" as you imply. Instead, I asked if anybody else heard that they require a 100-hour service that may cost $1000. Hell, that's just the cost of one filling, right? |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
K Smith wrote in message ...
& she won't if they're "based" on that 270 HP 6cyl GM engine which I think they are. It's easy enough to check. http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpower...ehicle/ll8.htm 4160cc, BxS 93.00 X 102.00mm. http://www.mercuryverado.com/pdfs/Product_Specs.pdf 2598cc, BxS 82 x 82 mm First one has bore and stroke sized for more low end torque, second one is for getting HP at higher RPM. %mod% |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:51:43 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: I'm just reporting what I heard on another forum...and it sounded a little far-fetched to me. Well, I must admit.... that certainly isn't out of character for you..... Read again, Gene. I didn't state it so "matter-of-factly" as you imply. Instead, I asked if anybody else heard that they require a 100-hour service that may cost $1000. Hell, that's just the cost of one filling, right? A crown, buildup, emergency exam fee, and an x-ray would push you over by $5. |
OT--And this Year's Nobel Peace Prize Goes to...
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "bb" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:14:58 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: Bush! He's been nominated...along with Tony Blair, for protecting World Peace. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in600270.shtml One of 173 nominees. Looks like his chances of a Nobel are about the same as a second term, if there's any justice in the world. 173 out over 6 billion people in this World. What percentile would that put him in? The percentile of those nominated as a joke. It is amazing to me that you actually, truly *believe* in Bush. I mean, you really do. He's such an absolute dummy and fraud. What is it about him that appeals to you...his ersatz cowboy approach to the world? Two reasons: 1) He's the anti-Clinton. He does what he says he'll do. He makes a decision and sticks with it to the end. He's not a smooth-talking bull****ter like his predecessor. 2) I'm tired of the way that the World has kicked us around since the end of the Cold War. I guess that Europe figured that they didn't need us once the big, bad Soviet Union fell apart. Deep down, many European's were happy that the bully got his due on 9/11. It's human nature to resent the powerful...and favor the underdog. Bin Laden's long-term goal is to seize the oil in the Middle East and destroy us economically. The House of Saud is a house of cards...and we're in Iraq to see that bin Laden's plan doesn't come to fruition once the extremists have seized power in Saudi Arabia. Appeasement through diplomacy is not the answer. I fully believe that his actions are precisely what I'd be doing were I in his place. Europe sees it as hegemony and arrogance. They're short-sighted and don't realize that should the Middle East's oil fall into the hands of the extremists, it's "lights out" for Western civilization. I can't think of one policy that Bush has pushed for that I don't agree with. Besides all that, he's a likeable guy. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
Harry Krause wrote:
K Smith wrote: Harry Krause wrote: K Smith wrote: Bill Sc wrote: As far as I know all outboards are "stood on end" (crankshaft needs to point down). Seems like all the 4 strokes would need dry sump or a weird oil pan. Not "quite" all :-) But yes agreed. However "if" & it's still an if, it is based on that GM engine then there would be some things to be addressed, not just moving the oil pickup & having the "sump" at the bottom. K Why don't you just list in standard English Gotta love it an totally uneducated union spruiker yank asking for standard English!!! what a hoot from the liar:-) You want to compare writing skills? Go for it. all of the "some things to be addressed," and we'll ask Mercury. Well the early hondas had a few problems with cam sealing, the top wasn't getting enough & the bottom too much so seals didn't just fail but at the top particularly cut into the shaft by being too dry. That's Honda, maybe. You intimated there were "some things to be addressed" with the Mercury engine. What are the problems with the new Mercury engine. No I didn't you liar, I was referring to taking a horizontal crankshaft engine & turning it vertical, as indeed Honda has done with some of their OBs. I didn't say nor intend to say that the GM engine (if it's the one used) was a particular problem, but the issues remain for all of them. Already mentioned the loss of prime thing but that's probably OK now Is that a problem with the new Mercury engine? The one no one in Australia has seen? Not that' I'm aware of & again so even you might understand, we don't really know for sure yet if it is based on the GM engine, you're just trying to make up lies that's all. Some of the early 4 strokes tended to corrode out what is effectively the sump. (hot salt water being blasted by exhaust seems the eat through very quickly) Yes, well, isn't that nice. But is that a problem with the new Mercury engine? After all, Mercury does have some knowledge of corrosion protection, eh? Again I haven't said anything particular about Mercury I was commenting on the fact that "if" it's based on the GM engine then that is good, certainly better than a 2 stroke or worse a DFI 2 stroke. In my case being a diesel the concerns were about oil getting past the rings into the chamber, always a serious thing in diesels. They have oil sprayers under the pistons so there's always plenty there. That's nice. What does that have to do with the new Mercury four stroke gasoline engine? Nothing; you specifically asked me to detail the issues which can arise when standing a horizontal design on it's end, having had some experience on the subject, I did. With the cyls to stern if a boat were very stern low trimmed at rest (as many OB craft are let alone with well over 600lbs of diesel OB attached:-)) then they were worried residual lube oil might get flowed "down" into the chambers. That's a terrible problem..,but how does it relate to the new Mercury outboard? Again I was giving an answer to your question, as for the Merc well it is heavy & on say ski or light competition fishing boats they most likely will sit stern low at rest. But fear not "if" it's the GM engine GM will make sure all is tickety boo, before they put their name at risk. Well as I said under the tutelage of GM they should be pretty right, but as we all now know they were pretty hopeless when it came to Optimax & gees louise that was the Aussies:-) Mercury builds many high-output engines for the automakers. You're a lying idiot of the first order. Merc also successfully marinizes GM engines. ,It's GM who build "marine" engines, with the heavy bottom ends, the stainless head gaskets, the rust resistant welsh plugs, the marine cam profiles & so on. You didn't know that? I expect that if this was a cross-pollinization effort between Merc and GM, both companies learned from each other. Probably some of that also but Merc really should have stuck to it's knitting before it experimented with consumers' money in optimax. GM could & would have supplied EPA compliant proper engines all along, what's changed??? this option was always available, but they cost thousands of people boating enjoyment with defective design engines in optimax. All this is predicated upon them using that particular GM block as the base engine, given the weight etc it seems likely?? Anyone confirm?? That possibility was talked about more than a year ago, but I haven't seen any confirmation. However, the straight-six engine Merc is using for this outboard turns 6400 rpm, and if it is a GM-based product, No that engine is a standard 6000rpm engine, that's how HP is made these days, lots of revs & not too high chamber pressures, look at the Honda sports; 118HP/ltr straight out of the box no super or turbo, no "special" fuel injection, just good use of well experienced & proven technology. GM is now doing the same although 275 from 4.2 ltrs is still conservative. that certainly would make it an unusual one, since, as far as I know, GM doesn't have a gas block engine in straight six format that turns anywhere near that. So, if it were a block of GM origin, it would have to be totally re-engineered, eh? Again look it up yourself in GM powertrain the garden variety version spins 6000 @ 275HP. Multi valve, multi cam & variable cam timing is only useful if the engine can rev & take advantage of those things. My summation: you know nothing about the new Merc outboard, nothing at all,except we're being proven absolutely right, about the DFI Fichts & optimaxes yet again. Don't you pity those poor *******s that have been conned by those lying dealers into still buying Optimaxes?? I mean what a rip off, when they are dropped outright imagine the boat values or whats left of them. but you want to appear in the know. Now, I expect, you'll spend some hours searching out some crumbs of information, translate them into your semi-literate non-standard English, and claim them as your own. Nope haven't even bothered to try, if Merc wanted to crow about the undisputed benefits of having a GM engine they would by now, so it looks like either the new engine has nothing to do with the straight 6 GM engine; still very possible given all the secrecy:-) OR They're going to try & pretend it's all their own work, you know how it goes?? special dealer only diagnostics?? special dealer oils?? special dealer plugs?? yes, looks like the full dealer rip off is being set up yet again. Would never do to tell people it's just a chevy, feed it oil changes, filters & fuel & it'll be fine. K Here's your lie for the day; You father assuming you even know who it was, didn't have a dealership in anything much less a marine dealership & you have just made up this BS. What a sad comentary for the real man. From 1947 until he died, he sold more than 500 outboard motors a year from his stores, accounting for a reasonably high percentage of *all* outboards sold in his home state for those years. |
OT--And this Year's Nobel Peace Prize Goes to...
"NOYB" wrote in message .com...
"bb" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:14:58 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: Bush! He's been nominated...along with Tony Blair, for protecting World Peace. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in600270.shtml One of 173 nominees. Looks like his chances of a Nobel are about the same as a second term, if there's any justice in the world. 173 out over 6 billion people in this World. What percentile would that put him in? What does the world population have to do with his chances of getting the Nobel prize? |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:51:43 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: I'm just reporting what I heard on another forum...and it sounded a little far-fetched to me. Well, I must admit.... that certainly isn't out of character for you..... Read again, Gene. I didn't state it so "matter-of-factly" as you imply. Instead, I asked if anybody else heard that they require a 100-hour service that may cost $1000. Hell, that's just the cost of one filling, right? A crown, buildup, emergency exam fee, and an x-ray would push you over by $5. Hehehehe. What a rip. |
OT--And this Year's Nobel Peace Prize Goes to...
Harry,
You managed to skip right over the real reason I support the guy. The first reason was just a "dig" at you. Read: 2) I'm tired of the way that the World has kicked us around since the end of the Cold War. I guess that Europe figured that they didn't need us once the big, bad Soviet Union fell apart. Deep down, many European's were happy that the bully got his due on 9/11. It's human nature to resent the powerful...and favor the underdog. Bin Laden's long-term goal is to seize the oil in the Middle East and destroy us economically. The House of Saud is a house of cards...and we're in Iraq to see that bin Laden's plan doesn't come to fruition once the extremists have seized power in Saudi Arabia. Appeasement through diplomacy is not the answer. I fully believe that his actions are precisely what I'd be doing were I in his place. Europe sees it as hegemony and arrogance. They're short-sighted and don't realize that should the Middle East's oil fall into the hands of the extremists, it's "lights out" for Western civilization. I can't think of one policy that Bush has pushed for that I don't agree with. Besides all that, he's a likeable guy. |
OT--And this Year's Nobel Peace Prize Goes to...
NOYB wrote:
Harry, You managed to skip right over the real reason I support the guy. The first reason was just a "dig" at you. Read: 2) I'm tired of the way that the World has kicked us around since the end of the Cold War. I guess that Europe figured that they didn't need us once the big, bad Soviet Union fell apart. Deep down, many European's were happy that the bully got his due on 9/11. It's human nature to resent the powerful...and favor the underdog. Bin Laden's long-term goal is to seize the oil in the Middle East and destroy us economically. The House of Saud is a house of cards...and we're in Iraq to see that bin Laden's plan doesn't come to fruition once the extremists have seized power in Saudi Arabia. Appeasement through diplomacy is not the answer. I fully believe that his actions are precisely what I'd be doing were I in his place. Europe sees it as hegemony and arrogance. They're short-sighted and don't realize that should the Middle East's oil fall into the hands of the extremists, it's "lights out" for Western civilization. I can't think of one policy that Bush has pushed for that I don't agree with. Besides all that, he's a likeable guy. Oh...I just figured the second part of your post was the usual NewsMAx insanity. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:51:43 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: I'm just reporting what I heard on another forum...and it sounded a little far-fetched to me. Well, I must admit.... that certainly isn't out of character for you..... Read again, Gene. I didn't state it so "matter-of-factly" as you imply. Instead, I asked if anybody else heard that they require a 100-hour service that may cost $1000. Hell, that's just the cost of one filling, right? A crown, buildup, emergency exam fee, and an x-ray would push you over by $5. Hehehehe. What a rip. Can't argue with you there. However, a dental practice operates at approximately a $250/hr. overhead. Add in the lab bill, and the margin isn't as high as you'd expect. Of course, a crown is certainly more profitable than a filling. Many times, a filling can take so much time that we actually *lose* money on 'em. The little bottle of bonding adhesive for the fillings, if sold by the gallon, would cost more than $80,000 per gallon. The old days of jamming a nickel's worth of mercury/silver amalgam into the tooth have long passed. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Gene Kearns wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:55:06 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: Can't argue with you there. However, a dental practice operates at approximately a $250/hr. overhead. Add in the lab bill, and the margin isn't as high as you'd expect. Of course, a crown is certainly more profitable than a filling. Many times, a filling can take so much time that we actually *lose* money on 'em. The little bottle of bonding adhesive for the fillings, if sold by the gallon, would cost more than $80,000 per gallon. The old days of jamming a nickel's worth of mercury/silver amalgam into the tooth have long passed. NOYB says in another thread........ "Hmmmmm. I had a 1962 13' boat in 2000 under Clinton. Under Bush, I've had a 22' Boston Whaler in 2001. Later that year, bought a 23' Grady White when the Whaler was stolen. In 2002 I sold the Grady and got a 17' Whaler. And then in 2003 I bought a 25' Whaler to go along with the 17'. Under your logic, that's 4 boats in 3 years under Bush...and 1 boat in 8 years under Clinton." and in this thread... "Many times, a filling can take so much time that we actually *lose* money on 'em. " It is truly a shame that in America a physician has to operate at a loss to stay in business. Maybe he'll post an address so that we can send donations to our resident health care provider so that he won't have to go hungry. 4 boats in 3 years. Two at one time. Nice. 1991 Grady. 1988 22' Whaler. 1994 17' Whaler. 1988 25' Whaler. Combined, they probably don't cost as much as one *new* 25' Parker with a four-stroke. The reason why health insurance policies typically place a low cap on annual dental charges is directly related to the outrageous prices many dentists charge for their work Sure it is. It has nothing to do with the outrageous profits the insurance company is trying to gouge from the patients and the dentists, right? and the work of their "assistants," and the mark-up on work they send out to their labs. A crown from the lab runs about $150-200. Then add in the $250/hr in expenses. Two hours for one crown=$500...plus $150-200 for the lab bill=$750... That equates to about about $125/hr profit if a core buildup is needed. Without the buildup, it's between $25-75/hour average. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
I think its pulling the cam cover and adjusting the valves. With waterpump the Suzuki 90's we are running cost about 250.00 for the 100 hour checkup, including waterpump impeller. That was prior to opening our own traveling maintenance shop. -- Capt. Frank __c \ _ | \_ __\_| oooo \_____ ~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~ www.home.earthlink.net/~aartworks "NOYB" wrote in message . com... "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... CCred68046 wrote: It really behooves you to learn as much as you can about your motor. Buy a shop manual and read it. That is usually all the guy at the dealer has done and he probably doesn't read the whole chapter until after he is a couple parts into the easter egg hunt. Man you got that right!!! I love my old Johnson V-4. Its bad enough my car is way over my head, I dont need my boat there too. I have the shop manual for my Yamaha F225. It's convinced me to keep mitts off the engine. It's worth having so you can double-check that you're not swindled by your mechanic into replacing your fanozolator more often than you have to. Are the 4-strokes every 50 or 100 hours for that service? 100 hour service cycle, but I will change the oil every 50 or better. I've heard that the Big Suzuki and Honda four-strokes call for, among other things, a 100 hour service that requires pulling the cam and adjusting the valves...to the tune of $1000. Anybody else hear that? |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:37:08 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:27:19 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: The reason why health insurance policies typically place a low cap on annual dental charges is directly related to the outrageous prices many dentists charge for their work and the work of their "assistants," and the mark-up on work they send out to their labs. I was moved by a television show I saw the other day. In many cultures, care givers will not charge for their services.... relying for their livelihood on donations from their patients. These care givers consider money charged for helping others. who are sick or in pain, as tainted money. Maybe auto workers, construction workers and plumbers can take up the charge of living on donations in this culture. Steve |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
I paid a $447 for my 60 4 stroke Merc's 500 hour check.
oil change, filter, impeller, plugs, foot grease The regular 100 hr check oil change, filter, foot grease and a look over is about $200. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:27:19 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: The reason why health insurance policies typically place a low cap on annual dental charges is directly related to the outrageous prices many dentists charge for their work and the work of their "assistants," and the mark-up on work they send out to their labs. I was moved by a television show I saw the other day. In many cultures, care givers will not charge for their services.... relying for their livelihood on donations from their patients. These care givers consider money charged for helping others. who are sick or in pain, as tainted money. Name one culture in which a person spends 12 years in school, 4 years in college, 4 years in medical school, and 2-4 years in a residency...and then doesn't get compensated for his/her work. Donating a couple of chickens and a cow will not help repay a school loan of $250,000...nor will it pay malpractice insurance premiums equal to or greater than that amount. Being old enough to remember house calls and the attention given by one physician to one patient, I am saddened by the horrendously overpriced cattle herding mentality of present-day American medicine. ....as am I. Vast quantities of available money have made the drug companies and physicians easy targets for lawsuits No, greedy attorneys have done that. ..... a situation made worse by the fact that physicians no longer treat one patient at a time and, thus, make it more likely that a mistake will be made. I agree here. However, my office is one patient at a time. Sure, there are less expensive alternatives (clinics with multiple docotrs who double and triple book), but people are willing to pay more for personalized attention. While I don't endorse socialized medicine, Sure you do. Afterall, you embrace a system where the caregiver will not charge for his/her services. I certainly see how physicians and drug companies that live such an opulent lifestyle will force upon themselves some sort of further controls and restrictions designed to protect those that simply must do without, rather than remit what they don't have. I can certainly see how those who choose to spend their money on luxuries such as multiple TV's, new cars, CD's, and vacations to exotic places, rather than on health insurance, would much rather have physicians sacrifice their lifestyles rather than vice versa. One would think that people holding a doctorate could grasp the simple concept of the parable of the Monkey with his hand in the cookie jar. Maybe not. I can grasp the simple concept that people who work hard deserve their just rewards. I can also grasp the fact that somebody has to pay the school loan bills, and high insurance premiums. The fact that physicians are also helping people is an added bonus. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Harry Krause" wrote in message news:D9-dnWZdto38aK3dRVn- For many people, providers as well as patients, the way we handle "managed care" is a disaster. My wife has two masters'-level psychiatric social workers at her office who spend most of their day fighting with insurance companies You've nailed the problem right there. When did medicine start accepting assignment of benefits for routine office visits? If patient's paid when services were rendered, and then filed with the insurance company on their own (dentistry calls it "direct reimbursement"), your wife's office could use those psychiatric social workers more efficiently. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Capt Frank Hopkins" wrote in message ink.net... I think its pulling the cam cover and adjusting the valves. With waterpump the Suzuki 90's we are running cost about 250.00 for the 100 hour checkup, including waterpump impeller. Thanks for the reply Frank. I don't mind off-topic posts...as long as they're marked off-topic. Harry and Gene decided to hijack the thread with their incessant whining about how doctors/dentists are overpaid. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
NOYB wrote:
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:27:19 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: The reason why health insurance policies typically place a low cap on annual dental charges is directly related to the outrageous prices many dentists charge for their work and the work of their "assistants," and the mark-up on work they send out to their labs. I was moved by a television show I saw the other day. In many cultures, care givers will not charge for their services.... relying for their livelihood on donations from their patients. These care givers consider money charged for helping others. who are sick or in pain, as tainted money. Name one culture in which a person spends 12 years in school, 4 years in college, 4 years in medical school, and 2-4 years in a residency...and then doesn't get compensated for his/her work. Donating a couple of chickens and a cow will not help repay a school loan of $250,000...nor will it pay malpractice insurance premiums equal to or greater than that amount. My wife has had a bit more school than you have, and, in fact, is pursuing her second doctorate, although this one is a PhD in statistics/research. By choice, she does not receive compensation for 50 per cent of her professional time as a psychotherapist, and her educational loans are pretty high. Oh...and the culture she lives in is...this culture, here in disUnited States. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message news:D9-dnWZdto38aK3dRVn- For many people, providers as well as patients, the way we handle "managed care" is a disaster. My wife has two masters'-level psychiatric social workers at her office who spend most of their day fighting with insurance companies You've nailed the problem right there. When did medicine start accepting assignment of benefits for routine office visits? If patient's paid when services were rendered, and then filed with the insurance company on their own (dentistry calls it "direct reimbursement"), your wife's office could use those psychiatric social workers more efficiently. The problem is, it takes someone with an advanced degree to work through the maze of pre-cert and post-paym as it were. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:52:05 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:
Rx companies now spend as much on marketing as they do on research, and a lot of that marketing is spent on prime-time television, convincing Americans to ask their doctors for drugs they may not even need. Some of those ads scare the hell out of me with there potential side effects. Sure your headache will be gone, but you'll end up with the runs, insomnia, and hair loss. ;-) |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:27:19 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: The reason why health insurance policies typically place a low cap on annual dental charges is directly related to the outrageous prices many dentists charge for their work and the work of their "assistants," and the mark-up on work they send out to their labs. I was moved by a television show I saw the other day. In many cultures, care givers will not charge for their services.... relying for their livelihood on donations from their patients. These care givers consider money charged for helping others. who are sick or in pain, as tainted money. Name one culture in which a person spends 12 years in school, 4 years in college, 4 years in medical school, and 2-4 years in a residency...and then doesn't get compensated for his/her work. Donating a couple of chickens and a cow will not help repay a school loan of $250,000...nor will it pay malpractice insurance premiums equal to or greater than that amount. My wife has had a bit more school than you have, and, in fact, is pursuing her second doctorate, although this one is a PhD in statistics/research. By choice, she does not receive compensation for 50 per cent of her professional time as a psychotherapist, and her educational loans are pretty high. Good for her. There are several problems with you comparing her situation to mine, however. Dental school is a lot more expensive than psych school. She also isn't the sole provider in your household...and you don't have three children to raise together. You guys are DINKs. Oh...and the culture she lives in is...this culture, here in disUnited States. We're united...united in ridding this country of liberalism. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
thunder wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:52:05 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: Rx companies now spend as much on marketing as they do on research, and a lot of that marketing is spent on prime-time television, convincing Americans to ask their doctors for drugs they may not even need. Some of those ads scare the hell out of me with there potential side effects. Sure your headache will be gone, but you'll end up with the runs, insomnia, and hair loss. ;-) There are a few out there whose possible side effects include death. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
WaIIy wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:04:46 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message news:D9-dnWZdto38aK3dRVn- For many people, providers as well as patients, the way we handle "managed care" is a disaster. My wife has two masters'-level psychiatric social workers at her office who spend most of their day fighting with insurance companies You've nailed the problem right there. When did medicine start accepting assignment of benefits for routine office visits? If patient's paid when services were rendered, and then filed with the insurance company on their own (dentistry calls it "direct reimbursement"), your wife's office could use those psychiatric social workers more efficiently. They don't have a secretary to deal with the insurance companies? Hmmm No, Wally, it takes two full-time master's level assistants to run the maze. My wife doesn't give up on patients in her practice...if they need serious care, they get it, no matter how much effort it takes to get them a placement or to beat up on the insurance company. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:12:10 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:17:37 +0000, Harry Krause wrote: Lloyd Sumpter wrote: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:07:48 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:44:58 +0000, FishFan wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message news:fbVWb.17180$_44.19735@attbi_s52... Mercury Marine unveils the new Verado today. Supercharged even. :) http://www.mercurymarine.com/ -W Anybody look at the weight? 649 lbs for a 225!! In fact, isn't that about the weight of a 220hp I/O ? (5L V8) Lloyd (and I'm guessing it's NOT FWC ! Lloyd Actually, the V8 I/O's weigh more, I believe. My F225 Yamaha weighs close to 600 pounds. What's really troubling about all these new high-tech outboards is that for anything other than routine maintenance, you need a highly skilled mechanic, and I wonder sometimes what the average dealership is doing to cope. That's a common problem these days. Have you looked at some of the modern "sportbikes"? Have you seen anything on them that you or I would identify as an "engine"? (let alone "spark plugs", "carburetor", etc.) Same with the high-output, turbocharged, intercooled, goober-modulated diesels. My bike has an old-style V-twin engine, with plugs and carburators. My boat has a normally-aspirated diesel. My van has the Venerable 4.3L V6. I can repair them all myself, mostly without a computer. Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 - engine ALMOST done! You must be riding a Moto Guzzi, Lloyd. Great bikes. I've got almost 180,000 miles on just two of them. John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:55:50 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: While I don't endorse socialized medicine, Sure you do. Afterall, you embrace a system where the caregiver will not charge for his/her services. I never suggested that it was appropriate to this culture.... I think it would be a sad refection on our values as a nation. I don't think that socialized medicine is the best solution.... not by a long shot. However, if the private sector can't fix the problem by itself, you can count on regulation by the government. I can certainly see how those who choose to spend their money on luxuries such as multiple TV's, new cars, CD's, and vacations to exotic places, rather than on health insurance, would much rather have physicians sacrifice their lifestyles rather than vice versa. I didn't know that this was a problem. Do you have any statistics to back this up? I just have a lot more anecdotal evidence than you on this issue. I foolishly assumed Yes you did. it was people having trouble with the rent and a car payment.... I didn't realize it was other well heeled people like yourself that went on enjoying "multiple TV's, new cars, CD's, and vacations to exotic places" right through that toothache or abscess. What *was* I thinking? I can grasp the simple concept that people who work hard deserve their just rewards. I can also grasp the fact that somebody has to pay the school loan bills, and high insurance premiums. The fact that physicians are also helping people is an added bonus. While I, too, believe that "people who work hard deserve their just rewards," I'm not sure we define just rewards in quite the same way. Price gouging, in my book, is not "just rewards." As you see that helping people is only an aside to your corporate structure, I assume that you won't complain when your corporate greed causes the populace to vote for governmental regulation of your income. Let them. You think HMO medicine is bad, now? Wait until the government has a chance to **** with it. They'll be boutique-style doctor and dental offices popping up all over the place to provide refuge for the unfortunate masses that grew tired of the government-run programs. Sure, you could wait a couple of months to go to a public clinic for free...but that's not the choice that people with who can afford to go elsewhere will make. The majority of dentistry done today is elective. That's why tooth whitening and veneers are so prevalent. It's a billion dollar industry and growing. Socialized medicine won't affect my practice one bit. Almost 70% of my patients have no dental insurance and pay at time of service anyhow. The other 30% also pay at time of service and then submit the insurance forms for reimbursement. Socialized medicine *will* affect the quality of my access to health care, however. That is precisely why I oppose it. Trust me, something has to give as the upwardly spiraling cost of health care reaches a point that it is no longer unacceptable. I'm hoping it's the insurance industry. It's time to undo the McCarron-Ferguson Act. Insurance is the one arena in which I think the Federal government can do a better job than the state governments. When it comes to a vote, will there be more doctors or more patients? I already told you that, as a doctor, I don't care if socialized medicine passes. As a patient, I care a lot. |
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"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:48:37 GMT, WaIIy wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:18:28 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: It is truly a shame that in America a physician has to operate at a loss to stay in business. Maybe he'll post an address so that we can send donations to our resident health care provider so that he won't have to go hungry. 4 boats in 3 years. Two at one time. Nice. If you would like to enjoy what NOYB has, go to dental school. Problem solved. I don't need to go to dental school, thanks. I like what I do and I don't think I would enjoy being a dentist. I have enough material "stuff" and don't begrudge others that may have more than I do. I don't think, however, I could enjoy those boats knowing I was charging more for services than the average Joe can afford.... knowing that some guy is looking at these artificially inflated prices and making a decision between healthcare for his kids and the rent payment. You're assuming an awful lot here, Gene. My prices are just below the median for my area. Sure, many fees in dentistry are more than the average Joe can afford. However, that has more to do with the high cost of delivering services today, than it does with any "price gouging". Averaged out, my expenses are 69% of my collections. I get to keep 31 cents of every dollar I produce. That's a pretty high margin for a company producing in the millions, but pretty darn low for a 5-employee business like mine. In 1 1/2 hours, I do a crown and buildup...and gross $950...or I can do maybe 3 fillings...and gross $375-450. For the crown, I dedicate another 1/2 hour appointment when I cement it. So, that's two hours of work...with $250/hr in expenses...plus $150-200 lab bill. Therefore, I net $250-300...which is $125-150/hr. Not bad! For the fillings, I have no lab bill, but I still have the $250/hr overhead to cover. In 1 1/2 hours, my overhead is 375. Therefore, I net between $0 and $75...which is $0-50/hr. Not good! I could make a lot more money by simply increasing production (since most of my expenses are "fixed" or "fixed variable"), but I choose to see one patient at a time. |
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If the government is so eager to meddle in the health care field, let them
create a consumer affairs division that can handle the pre-certs and post-payments for the patients. "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message news:D9-dnWZdto38aK3dRVn- For many people, providers as well as patients, the way we handle "managed care" is a disaster. My wife has two masters'-level psychiatric social workers at her office who spend most of their day fighting with insurance companies You've nailed the problem right there. When did medicine start accepting assignment of benefits for routine office visits? If patient's paid when services were rendered, and then filed with the insurance company on their own (dentistry calls it "direct reimbursement"), your wife's office could use those psychiatric social workers more efficiently. The problem is, it takes someone with an advanced degree to work through the maze of pre-cert and post-paym as it were. |
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"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:27:19 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: The reason why health insurance policies typically place a low cap on annual dental charges is directly related to the outrageous prices many dentists charge for their work and the work of their "assistants," and the mark-up on work they send out to their labs. I was moved by a television show I saw the other day. In many cultures, care givers will not charge for their services.... relying for their livelihood on donations from their patients. These care givers consider money charged for helping others. who are sick or in pain, as tainted money. Name one culture in which a person spends 12 years in school, 4 years in college, 4 years in medical school, and 2-4 years in a residency...and then doesn't get compensated for his/her work. Donating a couple of chickens and a cow will not help repay a school loan of $250,000...nor will it pay malpractice insurance premiums equal to or greater than that amount. My wife has had a bit more school than you have, and, in fact, is pursuing her second doctorate, although this one is a PhD in statistics/research. By choice, she does not receive compensation for 50 per cent of her professional time as a psychotherapist, and her educational loans are pretty high. Good for her. There are several problems with you comparing her situation to mine, however. Dental school is a lot more expensive than psych school. She also isn't the sole provider in your household...and you don't have three children to raise together. You guys are DINKs. Psych school? Heheheh. My wife is not a psychologist. She never attended a "psych" school. She has the power of the pen. Oh...the doctorate she is pursuing now costs around $1,000 a credit hour, and I believe 64 credit hours are required, plus her book. These are the licensed professions providing the bulk of psychiatric care these days: There are physicians who are psychiatrists. The majority of these provide no therapy, but do examine patients on an initial and ongoing basis, and prescribe the meds. There are still psychiatrists in psychoanalytic practice, though. MD or higher. Psychiatric social workers, master's level or higher. These folks provide the bulk of psychotherapy in this country. Psychologists, most of whom, however, provide testing services, and not therapy. Master's level or higher. Psychiatric nurses, who provide the bulk of 24-7 care in quality psych hospitals. RN's, typically with a master's degree. Mental health counselors, some with master's degrees. As to your having three children, that was your choice. You could have had less and perhaps been in a position to do a lot of pro bono work. There are a lot of children in this country going without dentistry, and hundreds of times as many around the world who need dental care. I chose to do pro bono wife on my own kids. |
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:40:07 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:37:50 GMT, (Steven Shelikoff) wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:37:08 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: These care givers consider money charged for helping others. who are sick or in pain, as tainted money. Maybe auto workers, construction workers and plumbers can take up the charge of living on donations in this culture. My suggestion to you is to stop using auto workers, construction workers and plumbers for your health care..... Um... ok. Steve |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:07:34 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:48:37 GMT, WaIIy wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:18:28 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: It is truly a shame that in America a physician has to operate at a loss to stay in business. Maybe he'll post an address so that we can send donations to our resident health care provider so that he won't have to go hungry. 4 boats in 3 years. Two at one time. Nice. If you would like to enjoy what NOYB has, go to dental school. Problem solved. I don't need to go to dental school, thanks. I like what I do and I don't think I would enjoy being a dentist. I have enough material "stuff" and don't begrudge others that may have more than I do. I don't think, however, I could enjoy those boats knowing I was charging more for services than the average Joe can afford.... knowing that some guy is looking at these artificially inflated prices and making a decision between healthcare for his kids and the rent payment. You're assuming an awful lot here, Gene. My prices are just below the median for my area. Sure, many fees in dentistry are more than the average Joe can afford. However, that has more to do with the high cost of delivering services today, than it does with any "price gouging". Averaged out, my expenses are 69% of my collections. I get to keep 31 cents of every dollar I produce. That's a pretty high margin for a company producing in the millions, but pretty darn low for a 5-employee business like mine. In 1 1/2 hours, I do a crown and buildup...and gross $950...or I can do maybe 3 fillings...and gross $375-450. For the crown, I dedicate another 1/2 hour appointment when I cement it. So, that's two hours of work...with $250/hr in expenses...plus $150-200 lab bill. Therefore, I net $250-300...which is $125-150/hr. Not bad! For the fillings, I have no lab bill, but I still have the $250/hr overhead to cover. In 1 1/2 hours, my overhead is 375. Therefore, I net between $0 and $75...which is $0-50/hr. Not good! I could make a lot more money by simply increasing production (since most of my expenses are "fixed" or "fixed variable"), but I choose to see one patient at a time. SOB! I make more money per hour than you do! That's because you're price gouging and I'm fair with my prices. Hang on.... I'm gonna check and see why *I* don't have two boats.......... Because you have two brand new motors. |
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Gene Kearns wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:07:38 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: No offense, fellows, but since I haven't really stated my full position on the provision of medical services, it is somewhat presumptuous for any of you to assume I favor what you are calling "socialized" medicine. Further, I have no idea what you mean by "socialized" medicine. I am in favor of a method that provides anyone in this country who needs medical or dental services or prescriptions to have access to them on a reasonable basis, whether or not they have the funds to pay for those services or for an insurance plan that pays on their behalf. That is *not* what is commonly referred to as "socialized" medicine. Sorry Harry, If you are referring to my comment... it wasn't a jab at your position.... because, truly, I don't know what it is. NOYB, however, seems to often use his perception of your position as a straw man for purposes of stumping for .... well, I'm not really sure what.... usually extremely right wing to the point of caricature.... leading one to assume that at least 85% of the poster's intent is a troll. I merely mean to splatter him with broad brush he often uses to paint you..... I mean no offense. No problem, but it gets wearisome to read all the preconceived notions all the time of all the kneejerk righties (and I don't mean you). These guys really are part of something like the BORG collective, incapable of independent thought. |
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How do YOU define "BORG", Harry? It is often used as an acronym for a large
retailer. Dan Harry Krause wrote: Gene Kearns wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:07:38 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: No offense, fellows, but since I haven't really stated my full position on the provision of medical services, it is somewhat presumptuous for any of you to assume I favor what you are calling "socialized" medicine. Further, I have no idea what you mean by "socialized" medicine. I am in favor of a method that provides anyone in this country who needs medical or dental services or prescriptions to have access to them on a reasonable basis, whether or not they have the funds to pay for those services or for an insurance plan that pays on their behalf. That is *not* what is commonly referred to as "socialized" medicine. Sorry Harry, If you are referring to my comment... it wasn't a jab at your position.... because, truly, I don't know what it is. NOYB, however, seems to often use his perception of your position as a straw man for purposes of stumping for .... well, I'm not really sure what.... usually extremely right wing to the point of caricature.... leading one to assume that at least 85% of the poster's intent is a troll. I merely mean to splatter him with broad brush he often uses to paint you..... I mean no offense. No problem, but it gets wearisome to read all the preconceived notions all the time of all the kneejerk righties (and I don't mean you). These guys really are part of something like the BORG collective, incapable of independent thought. |
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"Gene Kearns" wrote in message at least 85% of the poster's intent is a troll. Moi? ;-) |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
I think in this case it's deja-vous
DSK Gene Kearns wrote: On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 03:24:37 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: "Gene Kearns" wrote in message at least 85% of the poster's intent is a troll. Moi? ;-) Vous. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:54:22 GMT, "NOYB" wrote: I've heard that the Big Suzuki and Honda four-strokes call for, among other things, a 100 hour service that requires pulling the cam and adjusting the valves...to the tune of $1000. Anybody else hear that? Pulling the cam? $1000 to adjust the valves? That sounds reasonable. There is a nice article covering how to check the valve clearance and do the adjustment on the 4 stroke yamahas in the new Bass and Walleye boats magazine. These are the ones with the shims under the valve lifters. Most of the motorcycles use them. Really interesting read. Makes the old Hondas (and vw bugs) that were adjusted with a feeler gauge, a box end wrench, and a screwdriver look good. |
Worlds Most Powerfull 4 stroke OB
Clams Canino wrote:
: Mercury Marine unveils the new Verado today. : Supercharged even. :) : http://www.mercurymarine.com/ : -W I was reading in Hot Boat Magazine that Yamaha has plans for a 300 HP 4 stroke. |
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