Insurance: what's the difference?
 

What's the difference in insurance coverage between marine insurance like
BoatUS and USAA, Progressive, etc?
Seems to me that the real difference is that marine insurance would cover me
in the case of fuel/oil spills as well as crashing, sinking or theft.
My runabout's insured with USAA and I think the policy only covers liability
if I hurt someone. That was all I was initially concerned about - same as
car insurance.
I then bought BoatUS Towing and Trailer Coverage - haven't needed a tow yet,
but did use them when my tow vehicle wouldn't restart and I was on the
launch ramp.

One major difference between a marine insurance company and a car
insurance company willing to write a policy on a boat is that a boater
can buy a "yacht" policy through a marine insurance company.

Take the following scenario, for example:

Billybob Boater buys a Bubbly Bay boat for about $200,000. He insures
with a marine insurance company, and selects a yacht (or agreed value)
insurance policy. Two years later, ol' Billybob has a brain fart, runs
the wrong side of a channel marker, and rips the bottom out of the
Bubbly Bay boat and it bubbles down to the bottom of the bay. She's a
total.

The marine insurance company says, "Gee, that was dumb- but you insured
your boat for
$200,000 so here's a check for the same amount. May we suggest a
competitor when you decide to take up boating again?"

Now put ol' Billybob in the same Bubbly Bay Boat, with the same brain
fart and the same results, but let's say he saved a couple of bucks by
putting his boat into the same good
hands that insure his house and his car.

The insurance adjuster will say, "Gee that was dumb- but let's figure
out how to settle your claim....You bought the boat for $200,000, new,
and used it for two years.
According to our seagoing automobile depreciation schedule, a two year
old boat is worth no more than 60% of what you paid for it, so that
brings us down to $120,000. We can't just write you a check for the
$120,000, however, until we do an investigation to see what kind of
condition the boat was in just before it sank. You do take photos, with
a time a date stamp, every time you take the boat out, right? Do you
have the receipts for all the manufacturer recommended services?
They were on the boat? Oh, that's too bad............"

By the way, when the automobile insurance company wants to settle on
the mega-cheap, one of the tools they will haul out early on will be
the National Automobile Dealers Association's opinion of the value of
your boat. (See NADA book remarks in the "used boat price" thread). :-)

wrote in message
oups.com...
One major difference between a marine insurance company and a car
insurance company willing to write a policy on a boat is that a boater
can buy a "yacht" policy through a marine insurance company.

Chuck, I can tell that you really don't know anything about USAA and the
services they provide to their members.

Bert Robbins observed:

Chuck, I can tell that you really don't know anything about USAA and
the
services they provide to their members.

***************

???

I don't think I mentioned USAA at all.

Can you buy an agreed hull value "yacht policy" through USAA?

If so, they fall into the better class of the two types of policies I
described.

Most car insurance companies do not offer agreed hull value insurance.
USAA may be an exception.

Bert,
I've got home, car, and boat insurance with USAA. I think it's a good
company.
I don't think they provide boaters anything other than the same kind of
liability insurance they provide for cars.
If I'm right, I'm not paying much for insurance, but I'm not covered for
salvage, theft, etc.


"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:50:19 -0500, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:

wrote in message
egroups.com...
One major difference between a marine insurance company and a car
insurance company willing to write a policy on a boat is that a boater
can buy a "yacht" policy through a marine insurance company.

Chuck, I can tell that you really don't know anything about USAA and the
services they provide to their members.


Care to enlighten we ignorant few? Their website doesn't mention
boating insurance.... but, ever mindful of a good deal, I'm
interested.

I think Chuck is correct in his assessment that companies regularly
insuring marine concerns have a better understanding and response than
those not doing so.... Personally, I got tired of being dropped by
insurors because my boat was on the East Coast. Every time a major
hurricane hit the East Coast the geographical extent of insurance
cancellations crept North.... wave after wave....

I finally settled on a marine insuror and I no longer have to play the
cat and mouse game by proxy held between Mother Nature and
underwriters that just don't have their heart in marine casualty....

USAA = United Services Automobile Association. They started out life
providing auto insurance to commissioned officers in the uniformed
services. Later they opened it up to the dependents of the members. The
eligibility has been expanded into the enlisted ranks of the military now.

My dad insured his house, cars and boat through USAA.

I have insured house, boat and cars through USAA. I especially like the
refund checks I receive due to the association not having to pay out in
claims as much as they estimated.

If you can get it it is a great company.

USAA writes yacht policies with agreeded upon values as well as more basic
policies for those with small boats. Have had them insuring my boats for 28
years and they have been great with the very few claims I've submitted.

Although they started life as an auto insurance association they are full
service now and have been for decades. They do not advertise AFAIK and seek
members from the uniformed services to include NOAA and USPHS.

If one qualifies for membership it's a super outfit with which to deal.
They are not cheap but provide superior service as well as an annual check
(partial refund). Great value if you value service, prompt settelments, and
fair treatment.

Butch
wrote in message
oups.com...
Bert Robbins observed:

Chuck, I can tell that you really don't know anything about USAA and
the
services they provide to their members.

***************

???

I don't think I mentioned USAA at all.

Can you buy an agreed hull value "yacht policy" through USAA?

If so, they fall into the better class of the two types of policies I
described.

Most car insurance companies do not offer agreed hull value insurance.
USAA may be an exception.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 03:05:25 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:50:19 -0500, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:

wrote in message
groups.com...
One major difference between a marine insurance company and a car
insurance company willing to write a policy on a boat is that a boater
can buy a "yacht" policy through a marine insurance company.

Chuck, I can tell that you really don't know anything about USAA and the
services they provide to their members.


Care to enlighten we ignorant few? Their website doesn't mention
boating insurance.... but, ever mindful of a good deal, I'm
interested.

I think Chuck is correct in his assessment that companies regularly
insuring marine concerns have a better understanding and response than
those not doing so.... Personally, I got tired of being dropped by
insurors because my boat was on the East Coast. Every time a major
hurricane hit the East Coast the geographical extent of insurance
cancellations crept North.... wave after wave....

I finally settled on a marine insuror and I no longer have to play the
cat and mouse game by proxy held between Mother Nature and
underwriters that just don't have their heart in marine casualty....

Gene, if you're not an officer in the military, active or retired, forget it.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 03:05:25 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:50:19 -0500, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:

wrote in message
groups.com...
One major difference between a marine insurance company and a car
insurance company willing to write a policy on a boat is that a boater
can buy a "yacht" policy through a marine insurance company.

Chuck, I can tell that you really don't know anything about USAA and the
services they provide to their members.


Care to enlighten we ignorant few? Their website doesn't mention
boating insurance.... but, ever mindful of a good deal, I'm
interested.

I think Chuck is correct in his assessment that companies regularly
insuring marine concerns have a better understanding and response than
those not doing so.... Personally, I got tired of being dropped by
insurors because my boat was on the East Coast. Every time a major
hurricane hit the East Coast the geographical extent of insurance
cancellations crept North.... wave after wave....

I finally settled on a marine insuror and I no longer have to play the
cat and mouse game by proxy held between Mother Nature and
underwriters that just don't have their heart in marine casualty....

Whoops, just read Bert's post. I didn't realize they'd started accepting
enlisted soldiers.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

hands down, the best insurance co i have ever dealt
with....and, the refund checks each year allow me to
buy more boat and plane gear as well....

On 24 Mar 2005 10:15:44 -0800, "~^ beancounter ~^"
wrote:

hands down, the best insurance co i have ever dealt
with....and, the refund checks each year allow me to
buy more boat and plane gear as well....

Ssshhh! (Everyone will be wanting to join the military.)

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 03:05:25 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:50:19 -0500, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:

wrote in message
egroups.com...
One major difference between a marine insurance company and a car
insurance company willing to write a policy on a boat is that a boater
can buy a "yacht" policy through a marine insurance company.

Chuck, I can tell that you really don't know anything about USAA and the
services they provide to their members.


Care to enlighten we ignorant few? Their website doesn't mention
boating insurance.... but, ever mindful of a good deal, I'm
interested.

I think Chuck is correct in his assessment that companies regularly
insuring marine concerns have a better understanding and response than
those not doing so.... Personally, I got tired of being dropped by
insurors because my boat was on the East Coast. Every time a major
hurricane hit the East Coast the geographical extent of insurance
cancellations crept North.... wave after wave....

I finally settled on a marine insuror and I no longer have to play the
cat and mouse game by proxy held between Mother Nature and
underwriters that just don't have their heart in marine casualty....

Gene, if you're not an officer in the military, active or retired, forget
it.

They have opened up membership to enlisted also and many years ago they
created a subsidary named CIC that insured the dependents, that's how I got
into the USAA system once reaching the age of majority.

During the time I was enlisted in the USMC I had a military dependents ID
card and my military ID, the red one, and I had an officer's sticker on my
car. It was fun driving into my unit compound for the first couple of
weekends when everyone was saluting the car. They finally caugh on and
ignored me after that. However when I was on ATD down at Cherry Point I was
great to drive with on base because of the good old blue sticker.

it you want a great / honest return on your $ in life insurance
products (perm
life ins, that is) check out usaa...they perform consistintly great
returns, over
the years...low fees, solid rates of returns, etc....

"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
ups.com...
it you want a great / honest return on your $ in life insurance
products (perm
life ins, that is) check out usaa...they perform consistintly great
returns, over
the years...low fees, solid rates of returns, etc....


Why not just buy term? It is cheap.

Whole life insurance is a rip off. You would be better served to invest the
difference (between whole and term).

Why do you need life insurance anyway once the kids are gone, college is
paid for the you are retired. You should have enough cash stashed away to
cover burial/funeral expenses.

That is why term is the answer for the smart investor.

Jeesh...I sound like a fricken life insurance salesman!

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 09:50:51 -0500, "JimH" wrote:


"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
oups.com...
it you want a great / honest return on your $ in life insurance
products (perm
life ins, that is) check out usaa...they perform consistintly great
returns, over
the years...low fees, solid rates of returns, etc....


Why not just buy term? It is cheap.

Whole life insurance is a rip off. You would be better served to invest the
difference (between whole and term).

Why do you need life insurance anyway once the kids are gone, college is
paid for the you are retired. You should have enough cash stashed away to
cover burial/funeral expenses.

That is why term is the answer for the smart investor.

Jeesh...I sound like a fricken life insurance salesman!


I just stopped my last term insurance policy which was the Veteran's Group Life
Insurance. Once I hit 60, the premiums got ridiculous, and what JimH said is
correct.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 09:50:51 -0500, "JimH" wrote:


"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
roups.com...
it you want a great / honest return on your $ in life insurance
products (perm
life ins, that is) check out usaa...they perform consistintly great
returns, over
the years...low fees, solid rates of returns, etc....


Why not just buy term? It is cheap.

Whole life insurance is a rip off. You would be better served to invest
the
difference (between whole and term).

Why do you need life insurance anyway once the kids are gone, college is
paid for and you are retired. You should have enough cash stashed away to
cover burial/funeral expenses.

That is why term is the answer for the smart investor.

Jeesh...I sound like a fricken life insurance salesman!


I just stopped my last term insurance policy which was the Veteran's Group
Life
Insurance. Once I hit 60, the premiums got ridiculous, and what JimH said
is
correct.
--
John H



Yep.

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
ups.com...
it you want a great / honest return on your $ in life insurance
products (perm
life ins, that is) check out usaa...they perform consistintly great
returns, over
the years...low fees, solid rates of returns, etc....


Why not just buy term? It is cheap.

Whole life insurance is a rip off. You would be better served to invest
the difference (between whole and term).

Why do you need life insurance anyway once the kids are gone, college is
paid for and you are retired. You should have enough cash stashed away to
cover burial/funeral expenses.

That is why term is the answer for the smart investor.

Jeesh...I sound like a fricken life insurance salesman!


edit

"Why not just buy term? It is cheap.

Whole life insurance is a rip off. You would be better served to
invest the
difference (between whole and term"

your right...term is cheap...and in a lot of cases, it is "just what
the
doctor ordered"...i own term policies...but, in some cases, perm ins
is better...for a number of reasons...(do some research, talk w/a few
financial planners and agents)...it is more expensive...but you own
it..
and no one can take it away...(just like renting a house vs. buying)...

its a long story...and you are right...some perm ins is a rip off...
depending on the co, fees, comissions, and a host of other factors...
including where and how the "cash value" is invested...but, back to
my point about usaa...their fees are low, no comissions, and fast cash
build up...just what you want, if you are building an "insurance cash
machine"... (don't forget, ins is tax free $, that alone, can be a
wonderful thing)......

"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
oups.com...
"Why not just buy term? It is cheap.

Whole life insurance is a rip off. You would be better served to
invest the
difference (between whole and term"

your right...term is cheap...and in a lot of cases, it is "just what
the
doctor ordered"...i own term policies...but, in some cases, perm ins
is better...for a number of reasons...(do some research, talk w/a few
financial planners and agents)...it is more expensive...but you own
it..
and no one can take it away...(just like renting a house vs. buying)...

its a long story...and you are right...some perm ins is a rip off...
depending on the co, fees, comissions, and a host of other factors...
including where and how the "cash value" is invested...but, back to
my point about usaa...their fees are low, no comissions, and fast cash
build up...just what you want, if you are building an "insurance cash
machine"... (don't forget, ins is tax free $, that alone, can be a
wonderful thing)......


Why use life insurance as an investment tool? No matter who you but whole
life from you can always do better investing the money and purchasing term.

"Why use life insurance as an investment tool?"

tax free death benefit....there is a 100% you are
going to die someday, right?