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How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is
gone? Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem, at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought, for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is in now. Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have in the future. If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable) hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle? |
wrote in message oups.com... How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is gone? Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem, at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought, for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is in now. Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have in the future. If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable) hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle? Did you listen to the interviews? No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri. One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life. |
"JimH" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is gone? Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem, at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought, for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is in now. Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have in the future. If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable) hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle? Did you listen to the interviews? No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri. One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life. Bush only said that last line so as to not **** off his big voter block. He's trying to stay away from Schiavo overall, and leave the screaming to others. The interviews are propaganda because the MRI's, scans, and brain activity don't lie. If Michael is guilty of something then investigate and punish. That doesn't change the fact that she's a breathing corpse and that her parents and small group of supporters are in denial and desperate, resorting even to lies to maintain "hope". This is a sad thing for all involved. -W |
"Clams Canino" wrote in message ink.net... "JimH" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is gone? Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem, at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought, for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is in now. Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have in the future. If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable) hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle? Did you listen to the interviews? No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri. One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life. Bush only said that last line so as to not **** off his big voter block. He's trying to stay away from Schiavo overall, and leave the screaming to others. The interviews are propaganda because the MRI's, scans, and brain activity don't lie. If Michael is guilty of something then investigate and punish. That doesn't change the fact that she's a breathing corpse and that her parents and small group of supporters are in denial and desperate, resorting even to lies to maintain "hope". This is a sad thing for all involved. -W A great perspective from a conservative that feels she should be allowed to die http://www.townhall.com/columnists/n...20050324.shtml I too think it is time for her to be 'let go' |
One thing I can't stand about you right-wing nutbags is your perfect
willingness to twist facts and ignore scientific evidence whenever and wherever it suits your needs. As any competent internist would be more than happy to tell you is that this sort of fracture response is a relatively common osteoporosis-mediated response in comatose patients and is often a result of prolonged tetanus (severe involuntary muscle contractions) caused by electrolyte imbalance. I would point out that an electrolyte imbalance is exactly what put this person in a vegetative coma to begin with. This nonsense is being propagated, purely, solely and only for political gain, by the republican conservatives that are running our country all to score more votes from the right-to-life hard-right religious base. This sad and painful nonsense is being orchestrated by George Bush and his cohorts who, while he was Governor of Texas facilitated a bill allowing for-profit hospitals to discontinue feeding, for comatose patients who were indigent, broke, or whose health insurance had run out - even against family wishes. Bush is a callous and uncaring politician who works for the uber-wealthy money changers who have polluted god's temple and who personally doesn't give a rat's ass about the common working family struggling to put bread on the table. Bush is nothing more than a hypocrite who will surely burn in hell for his crimes. "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven". Bush's cuts to medicare would ensure that people like Terri would never even get 3 months of care much less for 14 years! In addition his proposal to limit malpractice claims would mean that no one would be able to claim the type of money that has kept Terri under 24-7 care for the past 14 years. Terri is being made to needlessly suffer for nothing more that cheap political shots to gather more republican votes. If she wasn't famous and if her family hadn't been adopted by the well-funded right-to-life coalition and if the republicans didn't think they could score some votes, Terri would have been allowed to pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago. |
wrote in message oups.com... big snip of liebral whining Terri would have been allowed to pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago. And this is Bush's fault how? Free hint to the clueless...................it was Terri's parents that have prolong the issue for the last decade. |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:27:00 -0500, "P.Fritz"
wrote: ~~ snippage ~~ A great perspective from a conservative that feels she should be allowed to die http://www.townhall.com/columnists/n...20050324.shtml I too think it is time for her to be 'let go' What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Later, Tom |
JimH wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is gone? Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem, at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought, for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is in now. Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have in the future. If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable) hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle? Did you listen to the interviews? No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri. One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life. That's why Bush and DeLay passed a law in Texas giving hospitals the right to "pull the plug" when things look hopeless (and parents have run out of money) "Texas law allows hospitals to discontinue life-sustaining treatment, even if a patient's family members disagree, under certain circumstances. Under the statute, "Life-sustaining treatment" means treatment that, based on reasonable medical judgment, sustains the life of a patient and without which the patient will die. The term includes both life-sustaining medications and artificial life support, such as mechanical breathing machines, kidney dialysis treatment, and artificial nutrition and hydration. [V.T.C.A., Health & Safety Code § 166.002] Under the law, "A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined with a prognosis that renders further care futile are two reasons a hospital might suggest cutting off life support". Chief medical officer at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, Houston. Last week, Sun, the 17-pound, nearly 6-month-old son of Wanda Hudson was allowed to die in Houston's Texas Children's Hospital. Sun's death marks the first time a U.S. judge has allowed a hospital to discontinue an infant's life-sustaining care against a parent's wishes, according to bioethical experts. Another case involving a patient on life support — a 68-year-old man in a chronic vegetative state whose family wants to stop St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital from turning off his ventilator — is pending in Houston. This statute was signed into law by then-governor George W. Bush. Houston is in the Congressional District of GOP Whip Tom Delay. The same Tom Delay who was the point man for the special law passed on behalf of Terri Schiavo." |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 05:37:01 GMT, "Clams Canino" wrote:
Best quote I've seen: "Her heart failure deprived her Cerebral Cortex of oxygen causing it to die. The dead brain cells were absorbed into her system and replaced with cerebral fluid. So we don't have a case where there is a brain that might suddenly kick into life and she recovers. The brain is gone... absent... a void. Her recovery, assuming brains are important, would require divine intervention and creation of a new brain. Some day they may be able to transplant a new brain... but then there would be someone else in her head. She's dead and they are keeping her body alive artificially to play with and pretend it's their daughter. This is not only wrong in many ways, it's macabre... like the movie Psycho." I've seen that also (somewhere), and agree that this one seems to ring much more true than the guy who said he could fix her. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
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"P.Fritz" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... big snip of liebral whining Terri would have been allowed to pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago. And this is Bush's fault how? Clue: There is still some detritus who consider Bush to be their leader. They drool and nod their heads in agreement every time he opens his mouth. He should not have said one single word about the woman, and he should've ordered his sitters and Congress to do exactly the same thing. |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:48:31 -0500, "JimH" wrote:
"John H" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:51:19 GMT, "Jim," wrote: Just like countless other families, the family of Terri Schiavo has struggled for years with the intensely difficult decision of how to match her course of treatment to her wishes. Now President George W. Bush, Rep. Tom DeLay (R-TX) and Sen. Bill Frist (R-TN) are using the tragic case of Schiavo You seem to totally disregard the Democrats who voted for the measure (in the House) or allowed the measure to pass *without* objection in the Senate. Any good reason for that? -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." Take a listen to the Suzanne and Bobby Schindler interviews on this site: http://www.glennbeck.com/audio/free-audio.shtml Maybe then you can see a different perspective of what this is all about. There is more to this sad story than you think. Something is rotten in Denmark. I couldn't get Beck's interview to play, but I would imagine Schindler is saying the same basic things he's said on multiple interviews I've watched. I don't buy the 'homicide' allegations. I am more inclined to buy what a whole pot full of judges have bought, that she expressed a desire that she not be held indefinitely in this state. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:15:33 GMT, "Clams Canino" wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is gone? Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem, at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought, for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is in now. Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have in the future. If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable) hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle? Did you listen to the interviews? No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri. One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life. Bush only said that last line so as to not **** off his big voter block. He's trying to stay away from Schiavo overall, and leave the screaming to others. The interviews are propaganda because the MRI's, scans, and brain activity don't lie. If Michael is guilty of something then investigate and punish. That doesn't change the fact that she's a breathing corpse and that her parents and small group of supporters are in denial and desperate, resorting even to lies to maintain "hope". This is a sad thing for all involved. -W Bush wanted to ensure that she had 'due process of law'. She had it. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"JimH" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is gone? Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem, at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought, for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is in now. Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have in the future. If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable) hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle? Did you listen to the interviews? No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri. One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life. Michael Shiavo probably beat her and caused the damage. But, he has gotten away with it. Crap happens. Blake and OJ beat the raps also. But she is a vegetable. After 15 years, she is not going to improve. Brain scans, etc, show she has little brain function left. Give her peace. Modern technology can keep a body clinically alive long after it would and should be dead. Breathing machine, pace maker, etc. Is this living? |
Sounds like a great law. Why should the public pay to keep a vegetable
alive for ever when there is no hope of any recovery. It may sound cruel, but I would much rather see the public's money, which is a limited item, be used to help the young lady with breast cancer, who has a chance to recover, or other illnesses that are very expensive, but curable. As opposed to keeping a comotose, brain dead person on life support for years and years. Bill "Jim," wrote in message ... JimH wrote: wrote in message oups.com... How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is gone? Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem, at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought, for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is in now. Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have in the future. If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable) hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle? Did you listen to the interviews? No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri. One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life. That's why Bush and DeLay passed a law in Texas giving hospitals the right to "pull the plug" when things look hopeless (and parents have run out of money) "Texas law allows hospitals to discontinue life-sustaining treatment, even if a patient's family members disagree, under certain circumstances. Under the statute, "Life-sustaining treatment" means treatment that, based on reasonable medical judgment, sustains the life of a patient and without which the patient will die. The term includes both life-sustaining medications and artificial life support, such as mechanical breathing machines, kidney dialysis treatment, and artificial nutrition and hydration. [V.T.C.A., Health & Safety Code § 166.002] Under the law, "A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined with a prognosis that renders further care futile are two reasons a hospital might suggest cutting off life support". Chief medical officer at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, Houston. Last week, Sun, the 17-pound, nearly 6-month-old son of Wanda Hudson was allowed to die in Houston's Texas Children's Hospital. Sun's death marks the first time a U.S. judge has allowed a hospital to discontinue an infant's life-sustaining care against a parent's wishes, according to bioethical experts. Another case involving a patient on life support — a 68-year-old man in a chronic vegetative state whose family wants to stop St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital from turning off his ventilator — is pending in Houston. This statute was signed into law by then-governor George W. Bush. Houston is in the Congressional District of GOP Whip Tom Delay. The same Tom Delay who was the point man for the special law passed on behalf of Terri Schiavo." |
Calif Bill wrote:
Sounds like a great law. Why should the public pay to keep a vegetable alive for ever when there is no hope of any recovery. It may sound cruel, but I would much rather see the public's money, which is a limited item, be used to help the young lady with breast cancer, who has a chance to recover, or other illnesses that are very expensive, but curable. As opposed to keeping a comotose, brain dead person on life support for years and years. Bill Can you explain Bush and DeLays sudden change of heart when it comes to Terri Schiavo? Could it be political? ---- Naaaaa "Jim," wrote in message ... JimH wrote: wrote in message egroups.com... How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is gone? Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem, at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought, for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is in now. Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have in the future. If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable) hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle? Did you listen to the interviews? No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri. One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life. That's why Bush and DeLay passed a law in Texas giving hospitals the right to "pull the plug" when things look hopeless (and parents have run out of money) "Texas law allows hospitals to discontinue life-sustaining treatment, even if a patient's family members disagree, under certain circumstances. Under the statute, "Life-sustaining treatment" means treatment that, based on reasonable medical judgment, sustains the life of a patient and without which the patient will die. The term includes both life-sustaining medications and artificial life support, such as mechanical breathing machines, kidney dialysis treatment, and artificial nutrition and hydration. [V.T.C.A., Health & Safety Code § 166.002] Under the law, "A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined with a prognosis that renders further care futile are two reasons a hospital might suggest cutting off life support". Chief medical officer at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, Houston. Last week, Sun, the 17-pound, nearly 6-month-old son of Wanda Hudson was allowed to die in Houston's Texas Children's Hospital. Sun's death marks the first time a U.S. judge has allowed a hospital to discontinue an infant's life-sustaining care against a parent's wishes, according to bioethical experts. Another case involving a patient on life support — a 68-year-old man in a chronic vegetative state whose family wants to stop St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital from turning off his ventilator — is pending in Houston. This statute was signed into law by then-governor George W. Bush. Houston is in the Congressional District of GOP Whip Tom Delay. The same Tom Delay who was the point man for the special law passed on behalf of Terri Schiavo." |
Calif Bill wrote:
Michael Shiavo probably beat her and caused the damage. Boy, that's really a wild accusation. The hey, the right wing is getting it's rocks off these days calling everybody names, so why not? It would be just as fair to say that her parents screwed up her childhood and that's why she was anorexic. They are certainly acting like whackos now, insisting that she's going to get better when she physically does not have a brain. It appears to me that the fight is as much about the malpractice award as about Terry Schiavo's life or lack thereof. ... ... But she is a vegetable. After 15 years, she is not going to improve. Brain scans, etc, show she has little brain function left. Give her peace. Modern technology can keep a body clinically alive long after it would and should be dead. Breathing machine, pace maker, etc. Is this living? Agreed. One of the issues this case raises is the validity of living wills. These documents are often ignored. I hope that the courts will recognize that when a person is dead, they're dead. When a person signs a legal document attesting that they do not want life support, they should not be kept alive as a vegetable. Regards Doug King |
She had "due process" long before Congress stuck it's nose in. She just got
a little more "process" is all. Process over. The tube is out and if she's truely a viable human being, then she can call Dominoes like the rest of us do. -W "John H" wrote in message Bush wanted to ensure that she had 'due process of law'. She had it. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"DSK" wrote in message . .. Calif Bill wrote: Michael Shiavo probably beat her and caused the damage. Boy, that's really a wild accusation. The hey, the right wing is getting it's rocks off these days calling everybody names, so why not? It would be just as fair to say that her parents screwed up her childhood and that's why she was anorexic. They are certainly acting like whackos now, insisting that she's going to get better when she physically does not have a brain. It appears to me that the fight is as much about the malpractice award as about Terry Schiavo's life or lack thereof. I understand there have been suppositions for years that the original injury was from a beating by her husband. He does appear to be a low life from his comments and actions, not a loving husband. Seems as if the left is not above calling names also. |
F'n yes it is political. Same as the other side of the political spectrum
politician's stance. They are politicians catering to there power bases. Bill "Jim," wrote in message ... Calif Bill wrote: Sounds like a great law. Why should the public pay to keep a vegetable alive for ever when there is no hope of any recovery. It may sound cruel, but I would much rather see the public's money, which is a limited item, be used to help the young lady with breast cancer, who has a chance to recover, or other illnesses that are very expensive, but curable. As opposed to keeping a comotose, brain dead person on life support for years and years. Bill Can you explain Bush and DeLays sudden change of heart when it comes to Terri Schiavo? Could it be political? ---- Naaaaa "Jim," wrote in message ... JimH wrote: wrote in message egroups.com... How many perspectives can there be when all the brain above the stem is gone? Sciavo's injury deprived the brain of oxygen. For 15 years! The stem, at the base of the brain, controls heart and respiratory functions and can initiate some reflexive motions. There is no capacity for thought, for emotion, or for learning. Few people would ever look at Terri S and say, "Please leave me in that condition for as long as I can hang on if I ever suffer the same fate." There has been testimony from several people that before the accident Terri had expressed a preference for death vs. life as a vegetable if she was ever in the state that she is in now. Sciavo's parents may be like the retired folks we all know who turn a household pet into a surrogate child or grandchild. Referrring to thenselves as the dog's "Mom" or "Dad", dressing it up in goofy clothes, and organizing daily life around its every need doesn't change the basic fact that the dog is a dog. A dog has far more cognitive ability than Terri Sciavo's breathing corpse has now, or will ever have in the future. If a miracle worker walked into her hospital room, healed her severed spine, and turned the fluid in her skull back into functioning brain cells she'd recover. Short of that, nothing could be done. Couldn't the same thing be said about every one of he hundreds of thousands of people in the same or similar situation every year? Should we keep everybody in a persistant vegetative state and with no (reasonable) hope of recovery alive forever, wishing and hoping for a miracle? Did you listen to the interviews? No one can say for sure what her mental condition is. And there are now many questions about Michael Shiavo's past treatment of Terri. One has to err on the side of life when dealing with human life. That's why Bush and DeLay passed a law in Texas giving hospitals the right to "pull the plug" when things look hopeless (and parents have run out of money) "Texas law allows hospitals to discontinue life-sustaining treatment, even if a patient's family members disagree, under certain circumstances. Under the statute, "Life-sustaining treatment" means treatment that, based on reasonable medical judgment, sustains the life of a patient and without which the patient will die. The term includes both life-sustaining medications and artificial life support, such as mechanical breathing machines, kidney dialysis treatment, and artificial nutrition and hydration. [V.T.C.A., Health & Safety Code § 166.002] Under the law, "A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined with a prognosis that renders further care futile are two reasons a hospital might suggest cutting off life support". Chief medical officer at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, Houston. Last week, Sun, the 17-pound, nearly 6-month-old son of Wanda Hudson was allowed to die in Houston's Texas Children's Hospital. Sun's death marks the first time a U.S. judge has allowed a hospital to discontinue an infant's life-sustaining care against a parent's wishes, according to bioethical experts. Another case involving a patient on life support — a 68-year-old man in a chronic vegetative state whose family wants to stop St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital from turning off his ventilator — is pending in Houston. This statute was signed into law by then-governor George W. Bush. Houston is in the Congressional District of GOP Whip Tom Delay. The same Tom Delay who was the point man for the special law passed on behalf of Terri Schiavo." |
And I think both side agree here - that this sad case should not be a
political issue. Don't they have enough to squabble about already? -W "Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net... F'n yes it is political. Same as the other side of the political spectrum politician's stance. They are politicians catering to there power bases. Bill |
Clams Canino wrote:
She had "due process" long before Congress stuck it's nose in. She just got a little more "process" is all. Process over. The tube is out and if she's truely a viable human being, then she can call Dominoes like the rest of us do. Now that was cruel.... very funny, but cruel.... Her mom insists that Terry can talk, she just "needs help." I guess to dial the phone she only need a little bit more help. DSK |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) -W |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:49:26 GMT, "Clams Canino"
wrote: And I think both side agree here - that this sad case should not be a political issue. Don't they have enough to squabble about already? Heh - just check out the headers on the posts. Later, Tom |
"Clams Canino" wrote in message ink.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) -W If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:55:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message link.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. True - real pizza is only made at Pizza Hut. "Hi Mom, Hi Dad - **** you Michael - let's go to Pizza Hut!" |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:55:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message hlink.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. True - real pizza is only made at Pizza Hut. I believe it may be illegal to say such a thing in Connecticut. I know it will get your legs broken in Long Island. |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:43:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... big snip of liebral whining Terri would have been allowed to pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago. And this is Bush's fault how? Clue: There is still some detritus who consider Bush to be their leader. They drool and nod their heads in agreement every time he opens his mouth. He should not have said one single word about the woman, and he should've ordered his sitters and Congress to do exactly the same thing. Why should she *not* have had as much protection as a convicted murderer? -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
"John H" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:43:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... big snip of liebral whining Terri would have been allowed to pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago. And this is Bush's fault how? Clue: There is still some detritus who consider Bush to be their leader. They drool and nod their heads in agreement every time he opens his mouth. He should not have said one single word about the woman, and he should've ordered his sitters and Congress to do exactly the same thing. Why should she *not* have had as much protection as a convicted murderer? Why shouldn't congress decide how often you can get laid? |
"John H" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:43:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... big snip of liebral whining Terri would have been allowed to pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago. And this is Bush's fault how? Clue: There is still some detritus who consider Bush to be their leader. They drool and nod their heads in agreement every time he opens his mouth. He should not have said one single word about the woman, and he should've ordered his sitters and Congress to do exactly the same thing. Why should she *not* have had as much protection as a convicted murderer? -- John H Exactly. As I said before folks on death row are afforded more rights than Terri received. Hopefully folks will now see the importance of having a Living Will and being specific on how they define "life support". |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:25:18 -0500, HKrause
wrote: Doug Kanter wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:55:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message rthlink.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message om... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. True - real pizza is only made at Pizza Hut. I believe it may be illegal to say such a thing in Connecticut. I know it will get your legs broken in Long Island. Reak pizza comes from Pepe's on Wooster Street in New Haven. Period. Oh please. Everybody knows that real pizza comes frozen in a box from Stop and Shop. New Haven - sheesh. Later, Tom |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:23:59 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:55:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message thlink.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. True - real pizza is only made at Pizza Hut. I believe it may be illegal to say such a thing in Connecticut. I know it will get your legs broken in Long Island. Odd - first time I ever ate at a Pizza Hut it was on Long Island. Later, Tom |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:21:20 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "John H" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:43:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... big snip of liebral whining Terri would have been allowed to pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago. And this is Bush's fault how? Clue: There is still some detritus who consider Bush to be their leader. They drool and nod their heads in agreement every time he opens his mouth. He should not have said one single word about the woman, and he should've ordered his sitters and Congress to do exactly the same thing. Why should she *not* have had as much protection as a convicted murderer? Why shouldn't congress decide how often you can get laid? Aw right!!! Considering the excesses of most Congressional decisions, everybody will get busy by law!!!! WHOO HOO!!!! Later, Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:23:59 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:55:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message thlink.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. True - real pizza is only made at Pizza Hut. I believe it may be illegal to say such a thing in Connecticut. I know it will get your legs broken in Long Island. Odd - first time I ever ate at a Pizza Hut it was on Long Island. Later, Tom Very economical pizza. You can taste it for 2 days after eating it. |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:55:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message link.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) -W If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. Undoubtedly the best post in the past month! ROTFLMAO!!! -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:21:20 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "John H" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:43:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "P.Fritz" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... big snip of liebral whining Terri would have been allowed to pass on peacefully and gracefully a long time ago. And this is Bush's fault how? Clue: There is still some detritus who consider Bush to be their leader. They drool and nod their heads in agreement every time he opens his mouth. He should not have said one single word about the woman, and he should've ordered his sitters and Congress to do exactly the same thing. Why should she *not* have had as much protection as a convicted murderer? Why shouldn't congress decide how often you can get laid? I probably couldn't handle their decision! -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:43:21 -0500, HKrause
wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:25:18 -0500, HKrause wrote: Doug Kanter wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message m... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:55:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message . earthlink.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message news:mbs541p67d01537kl3dte4jjags8g93trg@4ax .com... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. True - real pizza is only made at Pizza Hut. I believe it may be illegal to say such a thing in Connecticut. I know it will get your legs broken in Long Island. Reak pizza comes from Pepe's on Wooster Street in New Haven. Period. Oh please. Everybody knows that real pizza comes frozen in a box from Stop and Shop. New Haven - sheesh. Anyone who really knows pizza knows New Haven. One would have to assume that one would want to go to New Haven in the first place. Later, Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:23:59 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:55:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message rthlink.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. True - real pizza is only made at Pizza Hut. I believe it may be illegal to say such a thing in Connecticut. I know it will get your legs broken in Long Island. Odd - first time I ever ate at a Pizza Hut it was on Long Island. Later, Tom Yeah, but nobody really goes there. |
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:43:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:23:59 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:55:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message arthlink.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. True - real pizza is only made at Pizza Hut. I believe it may be illegal to say such a thing in Connecticut. I know it will get your legs broken in Long Island. Odd - first time I ever ate at a Pizza Hut it was on Long Island. Yeah, but nobody really goes there. IF nobody goes there, why does it exist? |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:43:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:23:59 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message m... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:55:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Clams Canino" wrote in message . earthlink.net... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... What would please me greatly, would be that Terri Schivao, just before she passes on, wakes up, looks her husband and parents in the eye and says "You *******s". Is was this post that led to my "black humor" Dominoes approach. It seems to me that her breath would be better spent ordering a meal is all. :) If her first choice in pizza was Dominoes, that would be proof she had no mind to speak of. True - real pizza is only made at Pizza Hut. I believe it may be illegal to say such a thing in Connecticut. I know it will get your legs broken in Long Island. Odd - first time I ever ate at a Pizza Hut it was on Long Island. Yeah, but nobody really goes there. IF nobody goes there, why does it exist? For people from the Midwest, or Washington DC, who think it's real pizza. |
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