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"John H" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:18:13 -0500, HKrause wrote: John H wrote: On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:57:56 -0500, HKrause wrote: John H wrote: On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 06:42:38 -0500, HKrause wrote: K. Smith wrote: Just like the brokers!!! so don't go near any of them. The brokers don't even have a business, no investment, no capitol, nothing, they're mostly failed used car salesmen & if you don't know what that means then you deserve what you won't get. So essentially brokers are one of the few life forms below a franchised boat dealer & that's almost life on Mars type stuff, however at least the dealers have a real business, with real overheads, assets, stock & staff etc, whereas the average slimey broker is just an unregulated hangeron moron. Yet another psychotic screed from Karen Smith of Australia, the self-proclaimed "inventor" of the "Taipan line" of diesel outboards no one has heard of, and, in fact, no one in the marine industry has heard of Karen Smith, either. But she presents a detailed knowledge of marine engines. One which some folks can only snipe at with their inane comments. It's your opinion that she presents a "detailed knowledge." Time and again, her "detailed" knowledge has been shot to shreds by experts with actual credentials. Perhaps some people are too easy to convince when they see long, poorly written posts with a few buzzwords sprinkled in for effect. When an expert responds to her posts with a different opinion, I enjoy reading both. *You*, in my opinion, are not an expert. Therefore your snide comments fall into the 'inane' category. Double yawn. Double 'exactly'. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." John, as Wally previously suggested, just killfile the guy. He is rude, angry and has nothing worthwhile to offer this group. |
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:36:16 -0500, "Dr. Dr. Karen Grear"
wrote: If you are aware of how to negotiate, why would you stop negotiations, just because someone was using NADA prices as part of his negotiations. Grasshopper, I never said stop negotiations. Stop looking at the trees and notice the beautiful forrest. If you were a good negotiator, you would immediately show the selling price of similar boats in your area as your tool to discredit the NADA prices. In my experience, people who bring up NADA pricing are usually not intertested in hearing about other, more realistic sources for boat pricing. You can bring up actual comparable sales all day long and the NADA folks will go right back to "yeah, but NADA.........." A good negotiator would not give anything away, nor would he allow an offer that he considered unreasonable to stop his negotiations. Who said anything about giving something away, or stoping negotiations? bb |
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:13:47 -0500, "JimH" wrote:
"John H" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:18:13 -0500, HKrause wrote: John H wrote: On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:57:56 -0500, HKrause wrote: John H wrote: On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 06:42:38 -0500, HKrause wrote: K. Smith wrote: Just like the brokers!!! so don't go near any of them. The brokers don't even have a business, no investment, no capitol, nothing, they're mostly failed used car salesmen & if you don't know what that means then you deserve what you won't get. So essentially brokers are one of the few life forms below a franchised boat dealer & that's almost life on Mars type stuff, however at least the dealers have a real business, with real overheads, assets, stock & staff etc, whereas the average slimey broker is just an unregulated hangeron moron. Yet another psychotic screed from Karen Smith of Australia, the self-proclaimed "inventor" of the "Taipan line" of diesel outboards no one has heard of, and, in fact, no one in the marine industry has heard of Karen Smith, either. But she presents a detailed knowledge of marine engines. One which some folks can only snipe at with their inane comments. It's your opinion that she presents a "detailed knowledge." Time and again, her "detailed" knowledge has been shot to shreds by experts with actual credentials. Perhaps some people are too easy to convince when they see long, poorly written posts with a few buzzwords sprinkled in for effect. When an expert responds to her posts with a different opinion, I enjoy reading both. *You*, in my opinion, are not an expert. Therefore your snide comments fall into the 'inane' category. Double yawn. Double 'exactly'. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." John, as Wally previously suggested, just killfile the guy. He is rude, angry and has nothing worthwhile to offer this group. Done! -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:56:38 -0500, HKrause
wrote: Would you mind emailing me your email address, bb? Thanks No problem. I sent it to your gmail account. If that's not the one to use, let me know. bb |
bb,
I can see why you have trouble negotiating. "bb" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:36:16 -0500, "Dr. Dr. Karen Grear" wrote: If you are aware of how to negotiate, why would you stop negotiations, just because someone was using NADA prices as part of his negotiations. Grasshopper, I never said stop negotiations. Stop looking at the trees and notice the beautiful forrest. If you were a good negotiator, you would immediately show the selling price of similar boats in your area as your tool to discredit the NADA prices. In my experience, people who bring up NADA pricing are usually not intertested in hearing about other, more realistic sources for boat pricing. You can bring up actual comparable sales all day long and the NADA folks will go right back to "yeah, but NADA.........." A good negotiator would not give anything away, nor would he allow an offer that he considered unreasonable to stop his negotiations. Who said anything about giving something away, or stoping negotiations? bb |
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:36:39 -0500, HKrause
wrote: Yeah, as I said, 31s and of course the 33s were larger than what I had in mind, when I had this refurb idea in mind. A couple of four cylinder diesels would do nicely in the 28. I've got a nibble, maybe, on my Parker. If the guy's really interested, I'll have the winter plastic removed. I don't usually call for that until the beginning of April, just before the last snowstorm here. =============================================== Normal power on most of the 28s that we saw was a pair of 350cid Chevys rated at 260 hp, cruising at about 130 hp each. I would want diesel power of at least 180 to 200 hp for comparable performance. My recollection is that the 28s actually weigh more than the 31s but the 31s are almost always found with a pair of 454s unless they've been converted. |
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:26:08 -0500, "Dr. Dr. Karen Grear"
wrote: bb, I can see why you have trouble negotiating. heh bb |
The book does not dictate a price, but it can be an effective tool
while negotiating. ********** Nonsense. You might as well rely on saying "My brother-in-law says your boat is only worth XXXX. Put yourself in the seller's shoes. When the seller listed the boat, it is very probable that he did some research on the local market that included sales trends and selling prices for boats similar to the one he is selling. To put yourself in the seller's shoes, imagine you put your house up for sale and, rather than throwing a dart at sheet of numbers on the wall, you priced the boat at or just slightly above the prevailing price trend in your area. Let's say that after you had your house listed for a week, an offer for half price is presented by the broker. When you say, "That's almost an insult! What makes this guy think he can buy my house for so much less than my neighbors are selling their houses for?"....how quickly would you cave in when the broker replied, "The buyer went on the internet, found some site where a group of Automobile Dealers has expressed an opinion about the value of your boat, and as far as he's concerned that's all its worth"? We actually *do* agree on one thing. Knowing the actual, recent, local price tendencies for a boat can be an effective negotiating tactic. This information is available, (I described how to obtain it earlier in the thread), and useful. Using some fairy tale number from a discredited source won't cause an informed seller to give his boat away at half price. Ain't gonna happen. Now of course if it were a political debate instead of a boating transaction, the guy with the phony numbers would just keep repeating them over, and over, and over again until everybody else began believing they might be true. :-) |
If you are aware of how to negotiate, why would you stop negotiations,
just because someone was using NADA prices as part of his negotiations. ************** If the gap is hopeless, refusing to "counter" can be an effective tactic. (If the gap is hopeless) It has everything to do with carving out the game rules. Is the question going to be, "How much more than half price will you be able to eventually grind out of me as a buyer/" or "How much less than my asking price are you going to convince me, as a seller, to accept?" The answer is seldom "double", or "half". A fair price is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. Anybody will be willing to buy at half price, but few willing sellers, (not acting under duress) will accept that. Those who need to buy on the triple cheap should maybe keep an eye on the obits. Next time a boater dies, maybe his grieving widow can be deceived into dumping his boat for a lot less than it's really worth. Once in a while you meet a guy who bought a boat, a car, or something else on the super-cheap in such circumstances.......don't know about you, but I have to resist the urge to vomit when they start bragging about how they suckered the old lady in her hour of distress. |
wrote in message oups.com... The book does not dictate a price, but it can be an effective tool while negotiating. ********** Nonsense. You might as well rely on saying "My brother-in-law says your boat is only worth XXXX. Put yourself in the seller's shoes. When the seller listed the boat, it is very probable that he did some research on the local market that included sales trends and selling prices for boats similar to the one he is selling. To put yourself in the seller's shoes, imagine you put your house up for sale and, rather than throwing a dart at sheet of numbers on the wall, you priced the boat at or just slightly above the prevailing price trend in your area. Let's say that after you had your house listed for a week, an offer for half price is presented by the broker. When you say, "That's almost an insult! What makes this guy think he can buy my house for so much less than my neighbors are selling their houses for?"....how quickly would you cave in when the broker replied, "The buyer went on the internet, found some site where a group of Automobile Dealers has expressed an opinion about the value of your boat, and as far as he's concerned that's all its worth"? We actually *do* agree on one thing. Knowing the actual, recent, local price tendencies for a boat can be an effective negotiating tactic. This information is available, (I described how to obtain it earlier in the thread), and useful. Using some fairy tale number from a discredited source won't cause an informed seller to give his boat away at half price. Ain't gonna happen. Now of course if it were a political debate instead of a boating transaction, the guy with the phony numbers would just keep repeating them over, and over, and over again until everybody else began believing they might be true. :-) Chuck, what is your opinion of the BUC personalized evaluation/pricing service? http://www.buc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pes We used it when we sold our boat and found it to be a good tool. |
When an expert responds to her posts with a different opinion, I enjoy
reading both. *You*, in my opinion, are not an expert. Therefore your snide comments fall into the 'inane' category. -- John H ************ When an "expert" repsonds to a post about a technical matter, he or she will be able to do so without making personal attacks and insults the basis of his or her remarks. What would you think if you hired a surveyor, and he showed up and began the process with, "This boat has to be a piece of crap. I can tell without looking at it. The reason I am so sure is that I know the present owner, and he is the lowest form of life on the planet............."? An expert should be able to render an opinion in an adult and objective manner. Of course, if the only field in which one is really an expert is the depth of their own disgust for other people then opinions expressed in *that* field of expertise will indeed, read like a non-stop personal attack. |
Gould,
When I have looked used NADA prices and compared them to the listed price in boattraders.com, I found them within the 10%-20% range of the prices listed. Since I was always looking at smaller boats, I just checked on a 1972 GB 50 Trawler and found it was 50% of the listed price in boattrader.com. I agree, when you have such a wide range, it does not have much value. wrote in message oups.com... The book does not dictate a price, but it can be an effective tool while negotiating. ********** Nonsense. You might as well rely on saying "My brother-in-law says your boat is only worth XXXX. Put yourself in the seller's shoes. When the seller listed the boat, it is very probable that he did some research on the local market that included sales trends and selling prices for boats similar to the one he is selling. To put yourself in the seller's shoes, imagine you put your house up for sale and, rather than throwing a dart at sheet of numbers on the wall, you priced the boat at or just slightly above the prevailing price trend in your area. Let's say that after you had your house listed for a week, an offer for half price is presented by the broker. When you say, "That's almost an insult! What makes this guy think he can buy my house for so much less than my neighbors are selling their houses for?"....how quickly would you cave in when the broker replied, "The buyer went on the internet, found some site where a group of Automobile Dealers has expressed an opinion about the value of your boat, and as far as he's concerned that's all its worth"? We actually *do* agree on one thing. Knowing the actual, recent, local price tendencies for a boat can be an effective negotiating tactic. This information is available, (I described how to obtain it earlier in the thread), and useful. Using some fairy tale number from a discredited source won't cause an informed seller to give his boat away at half price. Ain't gonna happen. Now of course if it were a political debate instead of a boating transaction, the guy with the phony numbers would just keep repeating them over, and over, and over again until everybody else began believing they might be true. :-) |
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I haven't used BUC for a while.
BUC pricing was typically on the high side if one began using the factors for "better than average" or "bristol" condition. What seller doesn't believe that his boat is better than average, maybe even bristol? Without using the multipliers, the pricing seemed fairly realistic. BUC makes an effort to identify obvious regional price trends, and trends pertaining to specific types of boats. That's a good thing. IMO, BUC is more often the "seller's book". (Surveyors typically used BUC book valuations when appraising boats for charitable donation, as the final number "adjusted for condition" was usually somewhat above market). BUC at one time was the defacto price and multi-listing program from brokerages. They finally got their pricing up to some ridiculous per-minute charge for being on line and Yachtworld has effectively assumed the position. (Only a few years ago, Yachtworld was still under $200 per month for a broker's subscription). However, now that Yachtworld is charging almost $500 a month for brokers who use the full extent of the service there is a lot of room for somebody to come in and do a better job cheaper. I still believe the best source of current regional sales information is the sold boat database available to brokers on Yachtworld. You have to look at the numbers carefully----- some brokers just routinely report that every boat they sold was at full asking price........yeah, right. Need some oceanfront property in Oklahoma? :-) {The majority of brokers do report accurate selling prices} |
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:39:22 +1100, "K. Smith"
wrote: Just like the brokers!!! so don't go near any of them. The brokers don't even have a business, no investment, no capitol, nothing, they're mostly failed used car salesmen & if you don't know what that means then you deserve what you won't get. As you said take the rego number go do a search of the title at say your DMV or similar, then contact the real seller. You will find that because the brokers are liars who will say anything to get a signed listing the seller will be tied up for ages & the broker will be getting his unearned commission regardless, so make sure "you" are not introduced to the boat by the broker. Help me out a little here K. Smith. I understand from your post that it's not ok for brokers or sales people to lie or cheat. That I agree with. I also undersand from your post that it's ok if buyers and sellers lie, cheat and deceive brokers and dealers. I may not agree, but you are entitled to your opinion. What you left out is very important. Is it ok for buyers to lie to sellers? Is it ok for sellers to lie and cheat buyers? You seem to be stating that it's ok for some people to lie and cheat some people in some instances, but it's not ok for other people to lie and cheat in other instances, so a little more clarification of when it's ok for who to lie and cheat who, would be helpful to those of us who assumed it wasn't ok for anyone to lie and cheat anyone at any time. Thank you for clarifying the above. bb |
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:45:40 -0500, John H
wrote: In the instance of my comment, I believe Karen was responding to a post without a verbal attack on anyone. Well then, you must know have read K. Smith's post. I can't say as I blame you. K. Smith's post stared out with an attack on Harry and anyone who is any way associated with the marine industry. "Without a verbal attack on anyone", please. bb |
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:11:28 GMT, bb wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:45:40 -0500, John H wrote: In the instance of my comment, I believe Karen was responding to a post without a verbal attack on anyone. Well then, you must know have read K. Smith's post. I can't say as I blame you. K. Smith's post stared out with an attack on Harry and anyone who is any way associated with the marine industry. "Without a verbal attack on anyone", please. bb I could be wrong. If so, then I'm wrong. I'm not energetic enough to look up the exact post. I *think* this was one of her rare posts without a personal attack of Krause. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:59:35 -0500, John H
wrote: I could be wrong. If so, then I'm wrong. I'm not energetic enough to look up the exact post. Well John, here's what she had to reply to Harry: & the liar just can't help but lie:-) Calling someone a liar in my book is a personal attack. I *think* this was one of her rare posts without a personal attack of Krause. I see you come to the defense of K Smith the same as you do the president, with no bases in fact. At least you're consistant. bb |
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:20:23 GMT, bb wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:59:35 -0500, John H wrote: I could be wrong. If so, then I'm wrong. I'm not energetic enough to look up the exact post. Well John, here's what she had to reply to Harry: & the liar just can't help but lie:-) Calling someone a liar in my book is a personal attack. I *think* this was one of her rare posts without a personal attack of Krause. I see you come to the defense of K Smith the same as you do the president, with no bases in fact. At least you're consistant. bb I stand corrected. Karen would do better to segregate her 'Harry is a liar' posts from her on-topic posts. As Harry's comment was 'inane', I have nothing to apologize for. However, I do admit my error. (You can pass that on to Chuck also!) -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
krause you fool
It isn't a shame to admit someone is far more intelligent than you krause, even a woman. I know this crushes you krause, seriously, I am sure you have had to increase the meds because of it. Every time this very knowledgeable boater points out your lies or helps someone with a boating problem they have, you simply cringe. I mean if you didn't make the lie in the first place why are you bothered by her helping other boaters with their issues? She is obviously adding value. I mean you claimed to have owned all these marinas and boat shops, yet you help no one. krause you fool, the only person making things up around here is you. "HKrause" wrote in message ... bb wrote: On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:45:40 -0500, John H wrote: In the instance of my comment, I believe Karen was responding to a post without a verbal attack on anyone. Well then, you must know have read K. Smith's post. I can't say as I blame you. K. Smith's post stared out with an attack on Harry and anyone who is any way associated with the marine industry. "Without a verbal attack on anyone", please. bb It wouldn't be a Karen Smith post without the inclusion of one of her psychotic screeds about me. |
" Tuuk" wrote in message ... krause you fool It isn't a shame to admit someone is far more intelligent than you krause, even a woman. That sounds like a sexist remark. Why couldn't a woman be as intelligent, or more so, than any man here? If you're referring to Karen...we're not even sure if she/he/it is of the female persuasion. |
John H wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:20:23 GMT, bb wrote: On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:59:35 -0500, John H wrote: I could be wrong. If so, then I'm wrong. I'm not energetic enough to look up the exact post. Well John, here's what she had to reply to Harry: & the liar just can't help but lie:-) Calling someone a liar in my book is a personal attack. I *think* this was one of her rare posts without a personal attack of Krause. I see you come to the defense of K Smith the same as you do the president, with no bases in fact. At least you're consistant. bb I stand corrected. Karen would do better to segregate her 'Harry is a liar' posts from her on-topic posts. As Harry's comment was 'inane', I have nothing to apologize for. However, I do admit my error. (You can pass that on to Chuck also!) & I apologise to you also John, I can assure you when I post I do always give a Krause lie. I know as we all do that you know Krause is a liar I'm not sure even you nor any of us know the full extent of his lies, but hey he is a liar. A failed used car salesman who then graduated to being a failed boat broker presumes to give me stick????:-) I don't think so. All I need do is review to simply correct his spam pieces & it's clear to all what the other one is "on" a stick. Anyway thanks for the defense & sorry if I've let you down ...... again, as I will below:-) Best Regards, Oops that reminds me speaking of turds on sticks ........... K Sorry to bear bad news on easter Friday because I know, particularly you poor Ficht owners:-), finding out just how these lying dealers have ripped you off over the years is depressing & I agree but hey; we did tell you at the time yet you chose to believe them??? Anyway now for something to cheer you up, it's your Krause lie of the day:-) This lying simpleton, after it became clear he was losing a thread where he was displaying his usual lack of patriotism much less gratitude for the brave men & women out there risking their everything, to keep the likes of him safe, he just reverts to type. But seriously can you imagine this uneducated union thug now claims he is reviewing universities!!! & wait for it he poo poos the engineering course!!! this from a lying uneducated union thug who couldn't use a toaster without a union authorised electrician in attendance. I've included just one of the followup responses but it was such a bald faced lie it even embarrassed the rejoinders:-) I have visited West Point, the Naval Academy, the Air Force Academy and the sub training facility at Groton. Some years ago, I actually did look over descriptions of some of the course material at Annapolis and the c.v.'s of some of the faculty. I'm sure the engineering course material is fairly rigorous, though it is more "trade-oriented" and did not look up to MIT or CalTech standards. I mean, if your goal is to be an aeronautical engineer, you're going to get better training at MIT or CalTech or at any of a large number of other engineering schools. I thought the faculty academic credentials no better than what is found at a typical smaller four year public university. The military academies turn out military officers with an education, not highly educated military officers. But that is their purpose, eh? -- Holy molly, grandma, put on your high boots. Harry Krause, admitted graduate in the humanities with a degree in English is hereby qualified to critique the engineering curriculum of not only West Point, but also that of the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy and compare it to that of MIT and CalTech. The above paragraph is a classic. You missed your calling Harry. |
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:43:48 -0500, "Dr. Dr. Karen Grear"
wrote: I just checked on a 1972 GB 50 Trawler and found it was 50% of the listed price in boattrader.com. ================================== Prices on older boats vary widely based on condition. You really have to know a great deal about the specific deal in question since it's not uncommon for an older boat in that size range to need $100,000 or more in maintenance and upgrades. |
Hi Guys,
Thanks again to those on topic. Others here, this thread which of course I do not own, I started to discuss an important issue to all boaters, buyers, sellers and owners: Prices of Used Boats. Clearly there is no (or little) monitoring of these discussions, as the topic now looks like "Who is the biggest A$$Hole and why". Please start a separate thread to trash one another. Some of us are not trying to measure our egos against typed text on the internet. These groups are a very useful tool to raise issues and find solutions to what looks like complex problems. Possibly none of the folks disrupting this thread are actual people, acting as individuals, but interest groups trying to kill any useful source of boat pricing information? Lord knows there is now more "pollution" in this thread than content. Had it been their intention, they couldn't have done a better job of sabotage! Others here beware. Likely the only ones with vested interest in our not sharing information regarding boat pricing are people in the industry who may wish to protect milk-cow profits. Be they from overpriced manufacturers, price gouging dealers, corrupt brokers or even industry hirelings, the idea is "keep 'em stupid and disinformed - then grab all you can". So the rule for these newsgroups goes: - Buyer Beware - Seller Beware Somebody is out to get you - and your hard earned cash - in every which way they can. Keeping us dumbed down is one technique among others. It is apparently being used right here in this thread, with trashing and flaming coming seemingly out of nowhere, possibly even from non existing fictional characters. Otherwise, why spend their time and energy belching fire here? All my best wishes to all well-intended buyers, sellers and boaters alike. Looks like there's a bunch of nasties trying to cut in on our fun, and make us regret launching out to sea. Cheers, Rich |
A failed used car salesman who then graduated to being a failed boat
broker presumes to give me stick????:-) I don't think so. All I need do is review to simply correct his spam pieces & it's clear to all what the other one is "on" a stick. ************** Gee, K, it's hard to know just exactly who you'd be referring to with those acid comments, but I can make an educated guess. If it's the party I'm thinking of, you would be astonished if you knew the details of his annual income and net worth. The party I'm thinking of was in a position to retire in his late 40's, but enjoys work more than he would a full-time hobby. If it's the party I'm thinking of, many people would disagree with your definition of "failure". Next time you launch one of your acid bombs, perhaps you will elaborate upon your definition. And if it's the party I'm thinking of, your "corrections" are most frequently the presentation of alternate opinions. There are pro's and con's to most subjects. People who know something about a subject are not afraid to discuss alternate opinions rationally. People who know little or nothing about a subject go to a thermodynamcs textbook, chat with some bloke in the shop, or misunderstand something overheard at the waterfront bar and speed to the keyboard with the new idea. They cling like kitchen wrap to the one little nugget they think they've got nailed, and snarl at the first sign of challenge as they are unable to expand upon, validate, or substantiate thier statements. A common tactic employed by people who know little or nothing but hope to appear as an expert is to post something totally wrong, (like "Nobody builds a boat with a cored hull anymore") and then begin a nonstop tirade of insults, accusations, wild assertions, etc. People who know little or nothing about a subject view those with alternate opinions as "enemies" who might expose the obnoxious would-be potentate for marching naked in the parade. Almost everybody else participating in the NG can disagree on issues, even technical issues, without defining the people on the other side of the issue as "liars, spammers, failures, and turds." Those themes seem to dominate all of your posts. Could it be that you are so immersed in a reality dominated by lying, failing, spamming, and turds that you interpret the rest of the world only through that filthy little filter? If so, that's really pretty sad. |
Who was she talking about?
wrote in message ups.com... A failed used car salesman who then graduated to being a failed boat broker presumes to give me stick????:-) I don't think so. All I need do is review to simply correct his spam pieces & it's clear to all what the other one is "on" a stick. ************** Gee, K, it's hard to know just exactly who you'd be referring to with those acid comments, but I can make an educated guess. If it's the party I'm thinking of, you would be astonished if you knew the details of his annual income and net worth. The party I'm thinking of was in a position to retire in his late 40's, but enjoys work more than he would a full-time hobby. If it's the party I'm thinking of, many people would disagree with your definition of "failure". Next time you launch one of your acid bombs, perhaps you will elaborate upon your definition. And if it's the party I'm thinking of, your "corrections" are most frequently the presentation of alternate opinions. There are pro's and con's to most subjects. People who know something about a subject are not afraid to discuss alternate opinions rationally. People who know little or nothing about a subject go to a thermodynamcs textbook, chat with some bloke in the shop, or misunderstand something overheard at the waterfront bar and speed to the keyboard with the new idea. They cling like kitchen wrap to the one little nugget they think they've got nailed, and snarl at the first sign of challenge as they are unable to expand upon, validate, or substantiate thier statements. A common tactic employed by people who know little or nothing but hope to appear as an expert is to post something totally wrong, (like "Nobody builds a boat with a cored hull anymore") and then begin a nonstop tirade of insults, accusations, wild assertions, etc. People who know little or nothing about a subject view those with alternate opinions as "enemies" who might expose the obnoxious would-be potentate for marching naked in the parade. Almost everybody else participating in the NG can disagree on issues, even technical issues, without defining the people on the other side of the issue as "liars, spammers, failures, and turds." Those themes seem to dominate all of your posts. Could it be that you are so immersed in a reality dominated by lying, failing, spamming, and turds that you interpret the rest of the world only through that filthy little filter? If so, that's really pretty sad. |
"Dr. T. Sheit" wrote in message ... Who was she talking about? Our Klass Klown Krause. Our Village Idiot with yet another identity wrote in message ups.com... Gee, K, it's hard to know just exactly who you'd be referring to with those acid comments, but I can make an educated guess. Wow, that would make you a genius. If it's the party I'm thinking of, you would be astonished if you knew the details of his annual income and net worth. Im already astonished. I cant believe he can even afford a computer on his anual income and net worth. The party I'm thinking of was in a position to retire in his late 40's, Yup. I believe I heard he started at Wal-Mart when he was 18, and retired 30 years later at 48. I've heard they still let him come back on the weekends to help gather carts from the lot. Nice try Krause, but I kill filed this identity of yours a long long time ago. I must admit, I do enjoy seeing these ridiculous posts every once in a while...they make me smile. :) Hey, what ever happened to Skipper? [huuuuuge grin] -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/ |
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Hi bb,
All my apologies if my posts offended you. They weren't targeted at you nor at any other poster here. I actually value your post, even if my opinion isn't relevant on this public thread where anything goes. You have discussed the issue at hand: boat prices - not who's mother doesn't like a certain poster, etc. It was the totally off topic posts which ticked me off, especially as I read quite a few in a row. I'm glad some are in short term mode and should automatically disappear after x number of days at the poster's request. It will make such a thread more coherent to anyone coming along later and interested in the topic of boat prices. I'm new here, and thus not at all accustomed to they way communiction goes, especially when several members have scores to settle. All I asked is for them to "step outside" to deal with conflicts unrelated to this subject. I happen to agree with you about the attitude of squeezing unfair deals out of sellers as being at least as unacceptable as squeezing unfair amounts of money from buyers for boats which are worn and torn. Fair prices are important, in human terms. You state quite justly that nobody deserves to get ripped off, whatever their role in a transaction. However, with market forces governing prices (regulated prices don't really seem to work in some cases) what often tends to happen is an excessive pendulum motion between supply and demand. When it is a sellers market, sellers (and brokers) tend to try to get as high a price as the market will bear, even if to an outsider it might seem excessive. As long as someone is ready to pay, who is to complain? This is the view of "Contractarian Ethics" in which a contract is the only measure of what is right and wrong. However, when a contract defies your own values by being too non conforming to what you hold to be minimum standards, then you might be entitled to view the contract as "wrong" or "unfair", even if each party directly involved agrees. To make my point in an exagerated way, selling an inflatable mattress for $10,000 to a very uneducated buyer could seem wrong to some people, while to others, if the buyer is happy with his mattress, it is none of anyone else's business. In a buyer's market, when there are many boats for sale and few buyers to be found, buyers may tend to try to wrench sellers to the ground prying their boats out of their hands for pocket change. This, of course similar to a seller's behavior in a seller's market. And the same issue of responsible behavior towards others in a transaction is at the heart of the problem. What seems to be in question is: - if the price is made between consenting parties, does that make it a fair price? (we remember the widowed grandmother suckered into practically giving away her regretted husband's boat) - if it is a seller's market, is it plausible that (as many banks and insurance agencies say today) most boats tend to be overpriced? - if it is a buyer's market, is it plausible that we consider most boats as being underpriced? Boat prices seems to be tributary to many factors: Technical constraints: presence of navigable waters, availablity of fuel and fuel pricing, availability of disposable income to purchase leisure craft, credit reserves and interest rates, size of the boat park correlated to the number of potential purchasers, taxation, storage and maintenance costs, etc. Psychological and sociocultural factors: attractiveness of maritime activities, attitude towards watersports, lifestyle associations with specific types of boats, social status implications, object fascination with boats, and not in the least affective emotional attachement to a boat, etc. In my earlier postings I was not trashing sellers or brokers. We can all observe that totally free markets tend to obey the logic of anything that the market will bear will be the market price - even if excessively high or low. However, it is my own personal belief (with which many will disagree) that when you are in a dominant market position (as buyer or as seller) you have the instrinsic responsability to temper the urge to make a killer deal at someone else's expense. If boats are cheap? Make someone's day by paying the seller's asking price without trying to chisel them. When boats are overpriced? Try to advertise yours for what you think it is worth, and not for what speculative sellers/brokers elsewhere are trying to bleed buyers. If I seemed biased in my above posts, it is only because I believe that the boat market is currently overpriced in general. You cannot say that this is untrue when some boats which have already used up the best decade in their lifespan are priced in quite used condition uncomfortably close to their original new price. But does this means that all sellers/brokers are exagerating prices? By no means. Some boat models which may be slow movers are seemingly quite low priced even today, so I would advise educated buyers to look at them carefully and, if they check out, cut the seller some slack. Don't apply further downward pressure. Cheers, Rich |
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"Our Village Idiot Krause, posted by his 13th identity" fabricated in message ... Netsock wrote: "Dr. T. Sheit" wrote in message ... Who was she talking about? Our Klass Klown Krause. Tell us, netsock, how come your personal webpage and the multi-identified "Smith" at 24.98.9.150 both resolve to fe1.columbus.rr.com? One of two reasons... #1. You're too dumb to read a net trace, or... #2. You are lying...yet again. Are you truly that obsessed with me? [smile] *ploink* #13 -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/ |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:36:39 -0500, HKrause wrote: Yeah, as I said, 31s and of course the 33s were larger than what I had in mind, when I had this refurb idea in mind. A couple of four cylinder diesels would do nicely in the 28. I've got a nibble, maybe, on my Parker. If the guy's really interested, I'll have the winter plastic removed. I don't usually call for that until the beginning of April, just before the last snowstorm here. =============================================== Normal power on most of the 28s that we saw was a pair of 350cid Chevys rated at 260 hp, cruising at about 130 hp each. I would want diesel power of at least 180 to 200 hp for comparable performance. My recollection is that the 28s actually weigh more than the 31s but the 31s are almost always found with a pair of 454s unless they've been converted. Don't get snookered Wayne. Krause is a liar...its been proven, and its been proven he doesn't even have a boat. This is just more of his creative cut-n-paste drivel from the internet. Ask yourself two questions... 1. What kind of life does Krause have, sitting on his duff, posting to this Usenet group 10-12 hours a day, under more than 10 different identities? 2. Why does he not allow his posts to be x-archived? The answers are obvious... -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/ |
Netsock,
Ask him about his Lobster Boat. "Netsucksux" wrote in message ... Netsock wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:36:39 -0500, HKrause wrote: Yeah, as I said, 31s and of course the 33s were larger than what I had in mind, when I had this refurb idea in mind. A couple of four cylinder diesels would do nicely in the 28. I've got a nibble, maybe, on my Parker. If the guy's really interested, I'll have the winter plastic removed. I don't usually call for that until the beginning of April, just before the last snowstorm here. ============================================= == Normal power on most of the 28s that we saw was a pair of 350cid Chevys rated at 260 hp, cruising at about 130 hp each. I would want diesel power of at least 180 to 200 hp for comparable performance. My recollection is that the 28s actually weigh more than the 31s but the 31s are almost always found with a pair of 454s unless they've been converted. Don't get snookered Wayne. Krause is a liar...its been proven, and its been proven he doesn't even have a boat. Tell you what, Netsuck. I'll show you my registration papers for my parker, and you give me signed over registration papers and your daddy's jetboat. What? You won't? No balls. 1. What kind of life does Krause have, sitting on his duff, posting to this Usenet group 10-12 hours a day, under more than 10 different identities? I'm always Krause. And since you are one of the Harry ID thieves, you try to be, too. 2. Why does he not allow his posts to be x-archived? The answers are obvious... Because it annoys lowlifes like you, of course. |
"Our Village Idiot, Krause" spewed in yet another identity
... Tell you what, Netsuck. I'll show you my registration papers for my parker, and you give me signed over registration papers and your daddy's jetboat. Sorry my pointed headed friend, but since my "daddy" doesn't even own a boat, that cant be done. Besides, I have better things to do than entertain a forged document. Tell you what tho...why not share with the group why you insist my Father does own a boat. If you show that you are not lying, I will give you choice over any one of my 3 boats. What? You won't? No balls. The only ball we are talking about now, my challenged friend, is in your court. :) I'm always Krause. And I'm always Netsock. Aside from my real name (which I used to post under, but gave up because of email/name harvesting) it is the ONLY name I have ever posted under here. And since you are one of the Harry ID thieves, you try to be, too. Pu-lease. If you are insinuating that I have ever posed as you, you are highly misguided. I have better things to do than to imitate a pathetic man typing away on a Usenet group for 70 plus hours a week, let alone passing myself off as a boatless double-digit IQed liar. I could ask you for proof, but given your history of lies, your (lack of) credibility precedes you. 2. Why does he not allow his posts to be x-archived? The answers are obvious... Because it annoys lowlifes like you, of course. LOL! You hardly annoy me you fool. In fact, I used to find you quite humorous, squirming and twisting when caught in your own lies. The fact is, you did it because you couldn't keep your lies straight. There is no other reason anybody would do it. Nonetheless, I am a fair man. Please post proof that my Father owns a boat, or I have ever posted under you name, and the boat is yours. We are all waiting... :) -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/ |
"N S Sherlock" no****sherlock.com wrote in message ... Netsock, Ask him about his Lobster Boat. Ahh, the Lobsta' boat. I do remember that one. That's the one he plagiarized the picture of, and another he lied about ownership as well. He know says he owns a Parker! LOL! But I think Ill pass on asking him about it. One of my pet-peeves are liars. I think liars are the lowest forms of human sociology, and Krause...well, he about the biggest liar I have ever seen. Now I understand this is Usenet, and that why I don't let him bother me much. I'm just as happy marching on with him in my kill file, but that infuriates him so much, he feels the "need" for me to hear him. So much so, he has now turned to stalking me, and fabricating complete lunacies. What's funny, or even pathetic, is that he is too dense to see what an idiot he is really acting like. Oh well, that's what made the Harry/Gould/Skipper (plus 9 other identities) show, so funny. :) Take care, and happy (real) boating. -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/ |
"Netsock" wrote in message ... "Our Village Idiot, Krause" spewed in yet another identity ... Tell you what, Netsuck. I'll show you my registration papers for my parker, and you give me signed over registration papers and your daddy's jetboat. Sorry my pointed headed friend, but since my "daddy" doesn't even own a boat, that cant be done. Besides, I have better things to do than entertain a forged document. Tell you what tho...why not share with the group why you insist my Father does own a boat. If you show that you are not lying, I will give you choice over any one of my 3 boats. What? You won't? No balls. The only ball we are talking about now, my challenged friend, is in your court. :) I'm always Krause. And I'm always Netsock. Aside from my real name (which I used to post under, but gave up because of email/name harvesting) it is the ONLY name I have ever posted under here. And since you are one of the Harry ID thieves, you try to be, too. Pu-lease. If you are insinuating that I have ever posed as you, you are highly misguided. I have better things to do than to imitate a pathetic man typing away on a Usenet group for 70 plus hours a week, let alone passing myself off as a boatless double-digit IQed liar. I could ask you for proof, but given your history of lies, your (lack of) credibility precedes you. 2. Why does he not allow his posts to be x-archived? The answers are obvious... Because it annoys lowlifes like you, of course. LOL! You hardly annoy me you fool. In fact, I used to find you quite humorous, squirming and twisting when caught in your own lies. The fact is, you did it because you couldn't keep your lies straight. There is no other reason anybody would do it. Nonetheless, I am a fair man. Please post proof that my Father owns a boat, or I have ever posted under you name, and the boat is yours. We are all waiting... :) -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/ Hey Krause, we are still waiting for your response. Should I consider your silence, that you concede to being a liar? [huge grin] We are all (still) waiting... :) -- -Netsock "It's just about going fast...that's all..." http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/ |
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 07:44:15 -0500, "Netsock" wrote:
Hey Krause, we are still waiting for your response. Should I consider your silence, that you concede to being a liar? [huge grin] We are all (still) waiting... :) Could you children get over yourselves? bb |
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