On 19-Mar-2005, "Cracked Pumpkinhead" wrote:

However, I'm thinking of
going on weekend intro courses for both S.K and W.W.

If you're serious about giving WW a try, sign up with Madawaska
Kanu Centre (MKC). http://www.owl-mkc.ca/mkc/. You won't find a
better place for instruction without a two day trip.

There's a one-day sea kayak symposium in mid-May at White Squall.
http://www.whitesquall.com/symposium.php. If you're going to
be paddling in Georgian Bay, you'll want to know about White
Squall - they are the main outfitter in the area.

GLSKA also has a weekend symposium/Rendezvous in June. Details
at the GLSKA web site. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/4657/
The basic info is on the Trip Listings page for June. On the News
page, you'll also find listings of other symposia in the Great Lakes
area. BTW, the GLSKA Rendezvous is for members only - hint, hint...

For sea kayaking, I think you'll be better off starting with symposia
and renting different kayaks than buying one and taking lessons from
an outfitter you don't know. No one provides sea kayak instruction
locally with a reputation that matches MKC in WW.

Mike

BCITORGB wrote in message
oups.com...
Mike says:
=============
Inflatable roofrack + sea kayak = either badly dented roof or lost
boat.
Probably both. I'd encourage you to fit some proper bars, probably
Thule,
and Thule J bars or similar.
=============

This seems to contradict previous posts. Like Cracked Pumpkinhead, I'm
among the uninitiated and am following this with great interest. My
emotions, right now, are like roller coaster...

Yeh, I know - sorry! Have a look here
http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/f...pic.php?t=6544 - UKRGB (
http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/) is a UK site with an active forum and
this very subject got discussed a while back. Accepting that we're talking
river-boats and hire cars, the principles remains true.

You said you have a small car and even allowing for bow and stern ropes,
you're going to apply some serious leverage to the roof once you've got a
sea boat up there.

Just by way of a wee addition to the debate, a friend was telling me of
being down in N Wales watching a client of ND Kayaks loading her brand new
ND Explorer onto a small European car and using inflaters. The roof dented
to the extent where it didnt recover. A lot of money to fix.

On a personal basis, my sea boat cost me well over a months salary - no way
am I going to entrust something so precious to me to either a blow-up tube
or a few bits of foam. I'm not going to risk any damage to my car either so
for me anyway there's no alterantive to a proper set-up.

I bought Thule bars 5 years ago and they've been on three cars since - the
KCS J's were bought 10 years ago and are still fine. Seems a good bit of
value to me anyway. Now I dont want to get flamed and I realise I'm a new
boy here and that a whole lot of folk have advised that inflaters, or foam,
or whaever will be fine so I'll leave you to make your own decision.

Enjoy your new boat. Mike.

Mike says:
=============
Now I dont want to get flamed and I realise I'm a new
boy here and that a whole lot of folk have advised that inflaters, or
foam,
or whaever will be fine so I'll leave you to make your own decision.
===============

Mike, I think every bit helps us newbies inch towards our own
conclusions. Thanks for your bit.

Cheers,
Wilf
===========

Mike Buckley wrote:

On a personal basis, my sea boat cost me well over a months salary - no way
am I going to entrust something so precious to me to either a blow-up tube
or a few bits of foam. I'm not going to risk any damage to my car either so
for me anyway there's no alterantive to a proper set-up.

I bought Thule bars 5 years ago and they've been on three cars since - the
KCS J's were bought 10 years ago and are still fine. Seems a good bit of
value to me anyway. Now I dont want to get flamed and I realise I'm a new
boy here and that a whole lot of folk have advised that inflaters, or foam,
or whaever will be fine so I'll leave you to make your own decision.

Disliking Thule due to two bad design examples (VW polo and a Nissan
something), I bought a Halfords "Mont Blanc" set of roofrails-mounted
roofracks.

They've already lasted me for several cars now, although I did exchange
the crossbars for an extra wide crossbar three cars ago.

I always use straps to tie boats to the roofrack, and I have yet to see
one that has been strapped to my roof come off, even when doing high
speed (160+km/h ~100+mph) emergency braking on the German highway.

Wilko

P.S. Granted, I did have one boat fly off the roof at one time, because
it wasn't tied on at all... At least it stayed on for several kilometres
of winding roads through the hills, before finally flying off after I
went down one hill at around 100 km/h ~60mph :-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

"Wilko" wrote in message
...

...I did have one boat fly off the roof at one time, because it wasn't
tied on at all... At least it stayed on for several kilometres of winding
roads through the hills, before finally flying off after I went down one
hill at around 100 km/h ~60mph :-)

I once set a two piece fly rod in the rain gutter on the roof of a Geo
Tracker while loading up other gear for a fishing trip.

You guessed it......I forgot about the fly rod.

I drove from southeast Wisconsin to central Pennsylvania, something over 700
miles (in excess of 1130 kilometers,if I remember my Celsius to Fahrenheit
conversions) and was unpacking at the end of the trip when I noticed the
butt section still sitting exactly where I'd left it. The tip section is
MIA. :(

As you have probably guessed, the butt section of a two piece fly rod is
thoroughly useless without the corresponding tip section. With this in
mind, I left it where it was for the duration of my week long sojourn among
various trout streams in the company of good friends, and returned home via
more or less the same route with nary a deviation in my packing routine. I
still have that butt section. :)

Wolfgang
um......if anybody has a spare tip section to a seventies vintage sears 7
wt. fiberglass fly rod.......

Wolfgang wrote in message
...

"Wilko" wrote in message
...

...I did have one boat fly off the roof at one time, because it wasn't
tied on at all... At least it stayed on for several kilometres of
winding
roads through the hills, before finally flying off after I went down one
hill at around 100 km/h ~60mph :-)

I once set a two piece fly rod in the rain gutter on the roof of a Geo
Tracker while loading up other gear for a fishing trip.

You guessed it......I forgot about the fly rod. (Snipped good
story - - - )

Ok - more war stories:

1: Friend insisted on "securing" three river boats to his r/rack with those
bungees with wire hooks at each end - at a nice steady 80mph up the motorway
, a boat lifts. Wire hook on drivers side opens, bungee fires across roof
and smacks into passenger side window, breaking it, and somewhat alarming
passenger!

Boat continues to try and fly and of course the others are now airborne as
well - remaining bungee remains firmly in place and encourages three
airborne boats to rip roofrack off car, scattering boats and roofrack all
over M9 near Stirling (Scotland) . Damaged boats - badly damaged car -
destroyed roofrack - unbelivably, no other vehicles damaged!

2: Some years ago, spent happy day working on Series 3 Land Rover, the old
ones with leaf springs - placed full cup of coffee on the front bumper.
Jumped into Landy to go for test drive to check whatever I'd done,
forgetting about the coffee cup. Backed up steep drive, roared off, down
very steep (and quite bumpy) hill, round roundabout and back up said hill.

Coffee cup, and contents, still on the bumper! Cold mind you.

Isn't it wonderful how we can get sooooooo far off topic, sooooo easily????
LOL.

Mike.

"Wilko" wrote in message
...
Mike Buckley wrote:
Snip
Wilko

P.S. Granted, I did have one boat fly off the roof at one time, because
it wasn't tied on at all... At least it stayed on for several kilometres
of winding roads through the hills, before finally flying off after I
went down one hill at around 100 km/h ~60mph :-)

A guy I went kayaking with a while ago was also a pilot. When he parked he
pulled one of those red "Remove before flight" tags out of the car and stuck
it on the drivers side wiper blade. He said it is to remind him to do a walk
around the car to check that everything is in, on and tied down. Seems he
had, at one time, done the same thing. He set the boat on the car to take a
long lunch, planning to go back out on the water later. The weather went bad
and he changed his mind. Did the same as you. He said it stayed in place
much longer than he thought it would. Only sliding off the front and across
the hood a few miles down the road at a stop sign.

Ken

Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/

On 19 Mar 2005 00:15:39 -0800, "Cracked Pumpkinhead"
wrote:

HA HA HA HA, I can't afford a bus or limo!

So far, paddlers seem to be a pretty cool bunch. Can't wait to meet ya
on the water in my............well whatever I'm in! A dingy is looking
promising? Or one of those big blow up Shamu's from Marineland, eh?

I'll keep you all posted as to what I decide.

From the rack component prices you quote, you must be considering
Yakima or Thule. Expensive!
There is a less pricey alternative, sold at Canadian Tire, called,
IIRC, Sportrak. Normally sell for about $150,
sometimes on sale for $120. Does not fit all cars - limited range of
models to fit many cars. Don't trust the Canadian Tire store listing -
usually way out of date, instead go to the Sportrak website and check
for your vehicle.
I too drove a compact car, four door Dodge Shadow, and hauled a
plastic Yak, Dimension Nomad 16' 10".
The Sportrak has square crossbars, and, as far as I know, doesn't
offer anything like kayak cradles. After a while, I noticed "oil
canning" where the yak rested on the roof rack crossbars, so I made
cradles out of wood - two pieces that clamp onto the bars held
together with bolts and wing nuts, padded with some glued on foam from
a kids "noodle" toy, shaped to fit the hull.
You could also make support cradles out of styrofoam shaped to your
yak hull. There are also yak "carriers" that hold the yak at an angle
which should bolt onto the crossbars, since the crosss-section size is
pretty much standard.. A little ingenuity can save you a lot of money.
You can avoid the roof rack expense if you opt for an inflatable or
folding yak. Inflatables have come a long way, many choices in quality
and price. If rack prices scare you, then folding kayak prices will
really shock you, although there is always the used market or cheaper
lines such as the "Pakboat".
I switched from a plastric yak to a folder because of old age - the
confines of a small cockpit caused my arthritic knees to seize up
after about an hour, so I opted for a huge cockpit with room to
stretch one's legs.
I found the assembly time to be considerably more than claimed - just
not worth it for a day outing, so I opted to leave it assembled and
cartop it. By then, Dodge was replaced by a Sunfire, and had to get
new (Sportrak) roof rack to fit it. Racks are fairly close together,
leaving a lot of overhang. So, bought trailer hitch - about $120 at
Van & Truck World. Reese Hitch sell a "Canoe Loader" - a T-shaped
vertical extension that fits over trailer hitch ball and swivels.
Makes loading/unloadi ng canoe or yak much easier - just rest one end
of boat on the T, pick up other end and walk it around to rest on
racks. As well, it supplements racks with additional support to boat
while transporting it - less unsupported overhang. I didn't buy the
canoe loader, since I already had a bicycle rack that fit on the
hitch, and it was sinple to extend it with a T shaped pice to
accomodate the yak, copying the canoe loader design.
The entire cost of sportrak and hitch was WAY less than a Thule or
Yakima setup.

On 17 Mar 2005 09:01:37 -0800, "Cracked Pumpkinhead"
wrote:

So there are no laws on carrying Kayaks?

Not specifically for kayaks, although there has been talk of
restrictions to prevent, for example, a "Mini" owner from strapping a
20 foot canoe to the roof and heading out on the freeway.
There is, however, a catch-all prohibition against transporting an
unsafe load. If your yak comes loose, and police notice, or are called
because your flying yak damaged a vehicle, you're gonna get ticketed.

I just don't want to get
ticketed. Actually, whats really more important is that I don't loose
the kayak on the highway or tear off my roof LMAO.

TO ALL ON RBP
I am truly amazed. I have received nothing but wonderful, helpful
postings & emails from all of you providing me with a WEALTH of
information for a beginner like me. This sport has drawn me in, but
it's groups like you who will keep me around for a very long time. You
took a frustrating dilemma of mine that could have steered me away from
such a wonderful, social and rewarding sport and kicked me in the ass,
making me realize that its not just a mere possibility, I now
definately plan on DOING IT. I felt the need to independantly do this
for me but my X hubby (ie man or so he thought) used to do all that
stuff and I didn't think I could pull this off on my own. You offered
to mail me used kits, sent me links, gave me ways I can fasten it on my
own, sent me to websites and groups I can join, books I should read,
tips and tricks I should practice and most importantly, how to
transport my/a Kayak safely on my little car. I sincerly want to
thank ALL OF YOU for all your guidance. It's very much appreciated!
;)

DiAne
http://cracked_pumpkinhead.tripod.com/shaggies/