BCITORGB wrote:
Tink thinks:
===========
If you keep it cheap, there is more left for pizza later! TnT
==================

Tink, sell your shares in lumber, I just found everything I need next
to the shed in the back 40. ;-)

Cheers,
Wilf
===========

Darn me and my tongue, talked myself right out of making my
fortune!:)TnT

"Tinkerntom" wrote in news:1111128964.667304.272610
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:


Cracked Pumpkinhead wrote:
Hey WILF!!!!!!

DITTO!!!!!!!!! I'm up, I'm down...... ARGHHHHHH

I mean.....I don't want to make my Civic into a convertible and I sure
don't want to crunch anyone else on the highway with a 17' or 18'
pretty red Kayak (I prefer red tee hee) but................ **** DAMN
**** DAMN **** (pops always said I had a potty mouth) here's the
lowdown: $ 530.00 just for the rack (with the suggested stretcher bar
thingy's required for my tiny little car)
$ 150.00 Kayak cradle thingy (Ughhh)
$ 30.00 Installation
Okay, wait now I'm not finished yet........... total those numbers up
and whatcha get.....
$ 710.00 right? Wrong.........I live in lovely Ontario and will have
to pay 15% taxes on top of that which comes to a whoppin $816.50
smackeroonie's

ARGHHHHH FRICKA FRACKA GR(*#&(*^@(#^$&^!

Ya know....... I was searching the Auto classifieds I was so ****ed
off! Go figure......I won't pay $816.50 to put a darn rack system on
my car but instead GET A WHOLE NEW VEHICLE! HAHAHAHA. There's a
method to my madness. I'm not quite sure yet but I'll let ya know
what that is when I figure it out.

I'll carry the damn thing all the way to Algonquin before I give em $
816.50 DAGNABBIT! Regardless, I second the "can we get a resolution
before the summer?" question. ;)

Phewwwwwwww ........... I feel much better now.

So, hows everybody doin? ;)

DiAne
http://cracked_pumpkinhead.tripod.com/shaggies

Hey C-P, you mention that you have a Honda Civic, which is about as
short a car as there is for putting a Kayak on.

At a symposium a few years ago I saw one of those new Mini's by BMW with not
one, but two NDK Romany's on it.

I have a folding sea kayak, called a Folbot. This is a SOF (skin on
Frame) boat that can be dissasembled, and put inside your car, Voila'
no rack needed, and a bunch of problems solved.

Personally, I think that someone just getting into the sport is better off
looking at something more general purpose and not look at niche market
models. A folbot may be great if you understand the advantages and
limitations but most people getting started likely don't have a clear idea
regarding the type of paddling they'll be doing in two years. Some people
don't care if they ever learn how to roll a kayak, while for others it's
about the first thing they want to learn after paddling forward. For the
latter folkes, a kayak with a large open cockpit and 30" wide is not going
to be a good choice.

From what I've seen folding boat advocates are almost as overzealous in
their recommendations for a kayak than wood boat builders. Even though I've
built two wood boats myself and love my cedar strip boat, I realize that it
works for me and the kind of paddling I like doing and wouldn't suggest that
building a cedar strip kayak would be the best choice for someone just
getting started in the sport.

"Mike Taylor" wrote in
:

If your bow and stern lines are good and you spread them to the 4
corners of the car, then add some foam on the roof to stop the boat
from getting scratched by the car, it will work just fine. 4 lines to
the corners and the boat isn't going anywhere. I used pool noodles cut
in half lengthwise to make two D-shaped racks across the car. The
disadvantage is that when you take the boat off, your racks go blowing
across the parking lot....

Two words....duct tape.

This system worked for me until I found $99
universal racks at Canadian Tire. I added foam pipe insulation to
protect the boats and stop them from slipping. I had to strap them
through the inside of the car, cos I didn't want to make holes in the
car. No problem except in heavy rain.

Tell me about it. When I did the trip from upstate NY to North Carolina it
rained almost all the way there and after only about 30 miles into the trip
the water started to drip off the strap right onto my shoulder.

Walt wrote in news:iCF_d.456$6V3.387
@news.itd.umich.edu:

Cracked Pumpkinhead wrote:
Walt wrote:

"You don't *need* a rack to transport a kayak on your roof."

So there are no laws on carrying Kayaks? I just don't want to get
ticketed.

I'm not aware of any specific laws regarding Kayaks. There's probably a
width restriction that prohibits carrying anything on your roof that
extends more than six or so inches beyond the sides of your car. So,
careful about taking a roof rack off a Suburban and mounting it on your
Civic.

There's also probably something about length, especially in the rear,
but a simple red piece of cloth should take care of that.

I can tell you that I know people who have transported sea kayaks into
and around Ontario with the carpet-and-line method. I would surmise
that if it's actually illegal in Ontario they would have been stopped at
the border. If you're really concerned, you might want to research it.

I've taken my kayaks into Ontario (from Michigan) numerous times without
incident.



Actually, whats really more important is that I don't loose the kayak
on the highway or tear off my roof LMAO.

Yeah. Focus on that. Just do it right and you shouldn't have a
problem. You can get a ticket for failing to adequately secure your
load, but AFAIK, the crown doesn't dictate actual specific tie-down
procedures.

On the subject of regulations, however, there are some things you are
required to have with you out on the water. Ontario is a bit more
strict than the US. See http://boating.ncf.ca/equipment.html#unp6

Again, you don't need to spend much money on this stuff, but you should
definitely have it. Cut the bottom off a plastic laundry detergent
bottle and you've got a bailer. Buy a plastic whistle at the Looney
store and you've got a sound signaling device. etc.

On the other hand, each of the safety devices listed has a purpose and for
some of them trying to save a few bucks will make them essentially
ineffective. For example:

I don't know of any specific regulations that require that a PFD be worn.
Stick around here long enough and you'll see accident reports (usually
involving deaths) in which the victim was not wearing a PFD. I frequently
see people out in recreational kayaks with their PFD strapped under deck
bungies or being used as a backrest. It's very likely that their using teh
PFD as a backrest because they bought a cheap *Mart variety that is
uncomfortable. If they had spent a bit more for a PFD designed for kayaking
it would be comfortable and they wouldn't mind wearing it. Instead it's
stored on the boat where it serves no purpose (other than complying with the
law) whatsoever. Consider the following scenario.

Spring is coming and (if you're living in the north country) we're blessed
with a 70F degree day. Get out that kayak and go out for a paddle. If
you're paddling my local lake it's about a mile across but the sun is
shining, so take off the PFD and head on across. Halfway across the wind
picks up and the water gets choppy. Next thing you know you're upside down.
I hope you have the pressence of mind to hold on to your kayak because if
you don't your boat and PFD are now being blown across the water faster than
any human can swim. You're a half a mile from shore, without a PFD, in 40-
50 degree water. Kiss your ass goodbye.

The mention of the whistle is what specifically got me to respond to this
thread. The point of having an audio signalling device is to be able to
notify other boat traffic that you and their boat might have and impending
collision. Paying a couple of bucks for a cheapo whistle might save you a
couple of bucks but if whoever you're trying to signal is upwind they might
be able to hear it from more than 30' away. For a few extra dollars, one
can get a Fox storm whistle that'll ring your ears whenever it's blown. A
few years ago I was out paddling with a group of people under a full moon
and we saw a boat approaching us on a collision course. We all flashed our
lights at him but he kept coming. When he got within 100' I reach down to
the front of my PFD and grabbed my Fox storm whistle and blew. We
immediately heard "hey...is someone out there?" The driver of the boat was
out on a moonlight cruise and didn't expect a bunch of kayaks on the water
so wasn't watching where they were going. If I hadn't had that loud whistle
I don't know if they may have looked up in time to avoid a collision.

In any case, there are areas where saving some money makes sense and other
where saving a few bucks just isn't worth the possible conquences of having
ineffective equipment.

Cracked_Pumpkinhead wrote:

Beginner here. Looking to get myself a Sea Kayak (or even rent for
now) but come across a bit of a problem. I own a 2000 Honda Civic 2
door and got a quote for a roof rack and Kayak carrier and WOW the set
up costs just as much as the darn Kayak! Is there any other way to
safely transport a Kayak with my car without BREAKIN THE BANK?

Also, I am located in Ontario and was wondering if there are any good
forums on local web sites that experienced people frequent that I can
view as well as routes, tips, education etc.

DiAne

I recommend getting a car that is as least as long s your boat. :-)

JAM

John Fereira wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in
news:1111128964.667304.272610
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:


Cracked Pumpkinhead wrote:
Hey WILF!!!!!!

DITTO!!!!!!!!! I'm up, I'm down...... ARGHHHHHH

I mean.....I don't want to make my Civic into a convertible and I
sure
don't want to crunch anyone else on the highway with a 17' or 18'
pretty red Kayak (I prefer red tee hee) but................ ****
DAMN
**** DAMN **** (pops always said I had a potty mouth) here's the
lowdown: $ 530.00 just for the rack (with the suggested stretcher
bar
thingy's required for my tiny little car)
$ 150.00 Kayak cradle thingy (Ughhh)
$ 30.00 Installation
Okay, wait now I'm not finished yet........... total those numbers
up
and whatcha get.....
$ 710.00 right? Wrong.........I live in lovely Ontario and will
have
to pay 15% taxes on top of that which comes to a whoppin $816.50
smackeroonie's

ARGHHHHH FRICKA FRACKA GR(*#&(*^@(#^$&^!

Ya know....... I was searching the Auto classifieds I was so
****ed
off! Go figure......I won't pay $816.50 to put a darn rack system
on
my car but instead GET A WHOLE NEW VEHICLE! HAHAHAHA. There's a
method to my madness. I'm not quite sure yet but I'll let ya know
what that is when I figure it out.

I'll carry the damn thing all the way to Algonquin before I give
em $
816.50 DAGNABBIT! Regardless, I second the "can we get a
resolution
before the summer?" question. ;)

Phewwwwwwww ........... I feel much better now.

So, hows everybody doin? ;)

DiAne
http://cracked_pumpkinhead.tripod.com/shaggies

Hey C-P, you mention that you have a Honda Civic, which is about as
short a car as there is for putting a Kayak on.

At a symposium a few years ago I saw one of those new Mini's by BMW
with not
one, but two NDK Romany's on it.

I have a folding sea kayak, called a Folbot. This is a SOF (skin on
Frame) boat that can be dissasembled, and put inside your car,
Voila'
no rack needed, and a bunch of problems solved.

Personally, I think that someone just getting into the sport is
better off
looking at something more general purpose and not look at niche
market
models. A folbot may be great if you understand the advantages and
limitations but most people getting started likely don't have a clear
idea
regarding the type of paddling they'll be doing in two years. Some
people
don't care if they ever learn how to roll a kayak, while for others
it's
about the first thing they want to learn after paddling forward. For
the
latter folkes, a kayak with a large open cockpit and 30" wide is not
going
to be a good choice.

From what I've seen folding boat advocates are almost as overzealous
in
their recommendations for a kayak than wood boat builders. Even
though I've
built two wood boats myself and love my cedar strip boat, I realize
that it
works for me and the kind of paddling I like doing and wouldn't
suggest that
building a cedar strip kayak would be the best choice for someone
just
getting started in the sport.

You are right on John, that is why I recommended to CP that she check
out renting some boats first so she know that hard shell seakayaking is
what she is interested in. She may have already done this, and have a
good idea of the boat she is interested in. Otherwise, continue renting
for a while, and you don't have to worry about transporting it either.
She might even want to try a folder, and then find out she wants to do
WW. A WW would fit nicely on the Civic. TnT

I LIKE PIZZA!!!!! lol

HA HA HA HA, I can't afford a bus or limo!

So far, paddlers seem to be a pretty cool bunch. Can't wait to meet ya
on the water in my............well whatever I'm in! A dingy is looking
promising? Or one of those big blow up Shamu's from Marineland, eh?

I'll keep you all posted as to what I decide. However, I'm thinking of
going on weekend intro courses for both S.K and W.W. Someone told me
about this place http://www.canadianwildernesstrips.com/index2.html and
said it was awesome and highly recommended it. Anyone else in Ontario
been on a introductory course such as this or even better, been to this
specific place?

DiAne

"Cracked Pumpkinhead" wrote in
oups.com:

HA HA HA HA, I can't afford a bus or limo!

So far, paddlers seem to be a pretty cool bunch. Can't wait to meet ya
on the water in my............well whatever I'm in! A dingy is looking
promising? Or one of those big blow up Shamu's from Marineland, eh?

I'll keep you all posted as to what I decide. However, I'm thinking of
going on weekend intro courses for both S.K and W.W. Someone told me
about this place http://www.canadianwildernesstrips.com/index2.html and
said it was awesome and highly recommended it. Anyone else in Ontario
been on a introductory course such as this or even better, been to this
specific place?

At first glance that 2 day introductory trip looks like a good way to go.
When I first started I took a similar class that included one evening in the
pool then two full day outings. By the end I was hooked and immediately
started searching for a good quality touring kayak. I've never paddled
Algonquin park but I hear that it's a great place to paddle though you might
want to find out when the black fly/mosquito season are because I hear it
can also be pretty buggy.

If you're up for a vacation attending a multiday sea kayaking symposium can
be a good way of immersing yourself in the sport quickly. There's one in
Grand Marias, Michigan that's supposed to be real good that may be the
closest to you. The Gulf of Maine Sea kayaking symposium is also real good.
There's also a Paddlesports show in the Adirondacks that has been getting
huge turnouts every year. There are others in various other parts of the
U.S (the one in Charleston, SC is quite popular).

Sea kayaking symposiums general offer a variety of features, including:

* classes at many levels taught by some world class kayakers (it's like
taking bicycle lessons from Lance Armstrong)

* boat/paddle demos (kayaks from many different vendors are lined up on a
beach for you to hop in for a test drive)

* on water demonstrations (greenland style rolling demos, etc)

* off water seminars on a variety of topics (how to pack a kayak for
camping, use of signaling devices, etc)

* good food and great company (the Maine symposium has a lobster dinner)

Check out Sea Kayaker magazine (or their website: www.seakayakermag.com) and
their events calendar for a whole list of symposium and paddle festivals
coming up this year.

On 18-Mar-2005, John Fereira wrote:

On the other hand, each of the safety devices listed has a purpose and for
some of them trying to save a few bucks will make them essentially
ineffective. For example:
[...]
In any case, there are areas where saving some money makes sense and other
where saving a few bucks just isn't worth the possible conquences of having
ineffective equipment.

I cannot agree more. The safety equipment is there for a reason. Get the
right stuff and know how to use it. If you're paddling in the Great Lakes,
you're going to be involved in heavily used waters. The difference between
air and water temps is significant and the weather can change fast.

Mike