"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Dan Harris" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:10:13 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

I was dismayed to learn today that the beach from Pompano Beach to
Lauderdale-by-the-Sea is a "vessel exclusion" zone. The buoys say
"Ordinance 389" or some such, but Google turns up nothing relevant on
"exclusion zones" for "Flordia", "389", "Broward", "Lauderdale", etc.

This means I can't stop at my mom's private beachfront condominium and
pick
up passengers with a (motorized) dinghy at the beach. Nor can you fish
from the beach! As soon as I tried beaching today, a state boat appeared
withing seconds and gave me a warning. (Apparently there are busybodies
in
the buildings ashore that phone 911 if you try it.) The officer said you
can't even raise the outboard and oar yourself in, you can't have any
power
available on the boat, not even an electric trolling motor.

When did Florida start outlawing fishing and boating from the beach?

Just how does one find such picayune, strictly local laws?

Is there a boater vs swimmer lobby?


The buoys are there to indicate to boaters that they may not approach
closer than 300 feet from the beach.

This form of local ordinance is fairly common along the beaches in
southeast Florida and includes parts of Pompano Beach and Ft.
Lauderdale as well as other municipalities.

The intent is to limit the interaction between propellers and
swimmers! This is along the unprotected ocean. It is a dangerous and
risky practice to allow boaters along the surf line in close proximity
to swimmers.

This has nothing to do with fishing or 9/11.

HTH

Dan
--
Dan Harris


I agree with your logic Dan. However, if an entire stretch of beach is
closed off to boaters then it is being taken to an extreme.

We have the some restrictions at certain beach areas on Lake Erie, such as
at Cedar Point beach, Huntington beach, Edgewater beach and at the north
end of Kelley's Island. We would normally just got to one end of the
restricted area, set anchor at about 4 feet and then pull the boat closer
to shore (perhaps to waist deep water) with a stern line and then set a
stern anchor. That way we could enjoy the beach while having the comforts
of the boat at hand.




Edit text. Darn spellchecker almost caused my post to be rated x.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:29:14 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

Probably nobody here will talk to me ever again, but this regulation sounds
like a good idea. Combine swimmers, propellors, booze and an average
frequency of stupid operators which we can assume is no different than
automobile drivers, and you've got a reason to be concerned.

HEATHEN!!!! APOSTATE!!!! BLASPHEMER!!!! HERETIC!!!!

STONE HIM - STONE HIM NOW!!!!

Later,

Tom

Dan Harris writes:

This form of local ordinance is fairly common along the beaches in
southeast Florida and includes parts of Pompano Beach and Ft.
Lauderdale as well as other municipalities.

True. The Florida Marine Partol officer called me back today, and said
that they were enforcing a town (Lauderdale-by-the-Sea in this case,
http://www.lauderdalebythesea-fl.gov/ on the Web, no ordinances online
however) ordinance, and that the beaches of the ENTIRE COUNTY were
covered contiguously by a patchwork of these local ordinances excluding
vessels.

Odd that commerical rentals of Jet Skis are permitted at a certain
nearby hotel's beach frontage. Do I have a right to land there? The
wet sand is public property, right?

Odd that Florida statutes prohibit localities from "regulating the
anchorage of non-live-aboard vessels engaged in the exercise of rights
of navigation." (FS 327.60, see http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/ ).

I called the LBTS town hall and spoke to a clerk and to a code
enforcement officer. They were unfamiliar with the specific ordinance
and were startled themselves to learn when they looked it up that it
excludes everything that provides transportation on water, including
kayaks, canoes, etc., hard or inflatable, powered or not. Even toy boats
it would seem.

Specific exceptions allow surfboards and sailboards. These are not a
hazard to swimmers?

The intent is to limit the interaction between propellers and
swimmers! This is along the unprotected ocean. It is a dangerous and
risky practice to allow boaters along the surf line in close proximity
to swimmers.

Not necessarily. Why outlaw a kayak and paddle? An inflatable with
engine raised and rowed in? 24 hrs a day? Across the entire county?

This has nothing to do with fishing ...

Surf fishing is also excluded in another ordinance, I am told. I guess
fishhooks are always and everywhere a danger to swimmers.

or 9/11.

I don't mean 9/11 specifically, but a general tone of increased petty
security impositions in general, as a general tenor of the times after
9/11. These buoys appeared a year or two ago, and in the 40-odd years
previous that I have lived there, there were no such restrictions.

During WWII the above-water Copenhagen shipwreck, about 800 yards
offshore from this same spot where I was apprehended, was used for
bombardment target practice by US Navy aircraft!

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:29:51 -0500, "JimH" wrote:


"Dan Harris" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:10:13 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

I was dismayed to learn today that the beach from Pompano Beach to
Lauderdale-by-the-Sea is a "vessel exclusion" zone. The buoys say
"Ordinance 389" or some such, but Google turns up nothing relevant on
"exclusion zones" for "Flordia", "389", "Broward", "Lauderdale", etc.

This means I can't stop at my mom's private beachfront condominium and
pick
up passengers with a (motorized) dinghy at the beach. Nor can you fish
from the beach! As soon as I tried beaching today, a state boat appeared
withing seconds and gave me a warning. (Apparently there are busybodies
in
the buildings ashore that phone 911 if you try it.) The officer said you
can't even raise the outboard and oar yourself in, you can't have any
power
available on the boat, not even an electric trolling motor.

When did Florida start outlawing fishing and boating from the beach?

Just how does one find such picayune, strictly local laws?

Is there a boater vs swimmer lobby?


The buoys are there to indicate to boaters that they may not approach
closer than 300 feet from the beach.

This form of local ordinance is fairly common along the beaches in
southeast Florida and includes parts of Pompano Beach and Ft.
Lauderdale as well as other municipalities.

The intent is to limit the interaction between propellers and
swimmers! This is along the unprotected ocean. It is a dangerous and
risky practice to allow boaters along the surf line in close proximity
to swimmers.

This has nothing to do with fishing or 9/11.

HTH

Dan
--
Dan Harris


I agree with your logic Dan. However, if an entire stretch of beach is
closed off to boaters then tit is being taken to an extreme.

We have the some restrictions at certain beach areas on Lake Erie, such as
at Cedar Point beach, Huntington beach, Edgewater beach and at the north end
of Kelley's Island. We would normally just got to one end of the restricted
area, set anchor at about 4 feet and then pull the boat closer to shore
(perhaps to waist deep water) with a stern line and then set a stern anchor.
That way we could enjoy the beach while having the comforts of the boat at
hand.



I would agree that restricting an entire stretch of beach effectively
isolates boaters from land access. Many boaters like to "raft", beach,
or otherwise utilize a spot of land to anchor near.

I agree that sections of a beach, normally allocated as a swim area,
should have such restrictions for obvious safety reasons, but there
should be reasonable attempts made to accommodate the needs of boaters
as well. Some "no swim" buoys, and a dedicated landing/ beaching zone
perhaps.

Dave

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 06:43:10 -0500, Dave Hall
wrote:

I would agree that restricting an entire stretch of beach effectively
isolates boaters from land access. Many boaters like to "raft", beach,
or otherwise utilize a spot of land to anchor near.

========================

Here in south western Florida it is idle speed only inside of 200
yards, but OK to beach in most places. More commonly, we anchor off
the beach in 3 or 4 feet of water and wade in.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 06:43:10 -0500, Dave Hall
wrote:

I would agree that restricting an entire stretch of beach effectively
isolates boaters from land access. Many boaters like to "raft", beach,
or otherwise utilize a spot of land to anchor near.

========================

Here in south western Florida it is idle speed only inside of 200
yards, but OK to beach in most places. More commonly, we anchor off
the beach in 3 or 4 feet of water and wade in.


Around here, some of the Finger Lakes and local waters are havens for yahoos
in floating Camaros, who have no awareness of a world outside their own
boats. In other areas, things are much better. These contrasts are well
known to normal boaters.

Perhaps your part of Florida has more seasoned boaters, and the area being
discussed in other messages is more....yahoo territory? Or something? Just
wondering.....

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:06:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Perhaps your part of Florida has more seasoned boaters, and the area being
discussed in other messages is more....yahoo territory? Or something? Just
wondering.....

========================================

It's hard to say. There are yahoos everywhere and we have our share.
There are big differences in population between the west coast and
east coast however so perhaps are yahoo density has not yet reached
critical mass. We still have beaches here that are accessible only by
boat and are relatively unspoiled. Don't tell anyone though.

I lived on Cayuga Lake for a year back in the late 60s and don't
recall yahoos being a big issue but things change I guess.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:06:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Perhaps your part of Florida has more seasoned boaters, and the area being
discussed in other messages is more....yahoo territory? Or something? Just
wondering.....

========================================

It's hard to say. There are yahoos everywhere and we have our share.
There are big differences in population between the west coast and
east coast however so perhaps are yahoo density has not yet reached
critical mass. We still have beaches here that are accessible only by
boat and are relatively unspoiled. Don't tell anyone though.

Here, the yahoo factor is based on proximity to Rochester. The north end of
Canandaigua Lake is ridiculous. Not even worth boating on. And, Honeoye's
about the same.


I lived on Cayuga Lake for a year back in the late 60s and don't
recall yahoos being a big issue but things change I guess.


The West side of Cayuga now attracts large contingents of fools who think
it's fun to crank along the shore, maybe 100 off, and cause as much
turbulence as possible for the docks, swimmers and parked boats. This, while
the center of the lake is dead calm, and moving out 1/4 mile would make all
the difference in the world. The north end's better, though. I fish up that
way a lot, and it's fun to see some idiot come to a sudden stop in those
nice weeds, and spend 15 minutes in the water trying to hack the tangled
salad off the prop. :-)

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:13:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

The West side of Cayuga now attracts large contingents of fools who think
it's fun to crank along the shore, maybe 100 off, and cause as much
turbulence as possible for the docks, swimmers and parked boats.

=================================================

That's the "look at me" factor at work. I was on the east side at
Lansing Station Road, about 10 miles north of Ithaca. It was a
beautiful spot but there was a railroad track between the house and
the lake with one train a day for the power plant as I recall.

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:10:13 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

I was dismayed to learn today that the beach from Pompano Beach to
Lauderdale-by-the-Sea is a "vessel exclusion" zone.

Yep. But because I own a water front home there, I get an exclusion.