Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you
not
believe?

****************

Shall we start with the source?

Extremist publications and organizations with a proven, active,
political bias are not to be trusted.

We liberals get our news from such objective sources as the NY Times,
the Washington Post, CNN, NPR, etc. :-)

Seriously, that's one of the problems we face today. News is made, or
reported to order. No matter what position you want to support, there
will be some "news" organization more than willing to spin the facts to
support your conclusion.

"Outsourcing is a liberal myth"?

Fantastic. I'll be sure to tell the technical writer, the accountant,
and the engineer with whom I am personally acquainted to go back to the
office today. They will be delighted to learn that their employers
never really closed their office and sent the jobs to India, South
America, and even the UK to save money! According to Faux News and the
National Review, its all been a liberal myth.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you
not
believe?

****************

Shall we start with the source?

Extremist publications and organizations with a proven, active,
political bias are not to be trusted.

We liberals get our news from such objective sources as the NY Times,
the Washington Post, CNN, NPR, etc. :-)

Seriously, that's one of the problems we face today. News is made, or
reported to order. No matter what position you want to support, there
will be some "news" organization more than willing to spin the facts to
support your conclusion.

"Outsourcing is a liberal myth"?

Fantastic. I'll be sure to tell the technical writer, the accountant,
and the engineer with whom I am personally acquainted to go back to the
office today. They will be delighted to learn that their employers
never really closed their office and sent the jobs to India, South
America, and even the UK to save money! According to Faux News and the
National Review, its all been a liberal myth.



You stated your beliefs and opinions but you did not answer my question.

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze.

Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue?



Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not
believe?


Suggest you go back to the article and read the bottom line


Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/10/h....ap/index.html

"Jim," wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze.

Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue?



Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not
believe?
Suggest you go back to the article and read the bottom line


Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/10/h....ap/index.html

I suggest you reread the links in Pauls post. They were about outsourcing.

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Jim," wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze.

Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue?



Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you not
believe?
Suggest you go back to the article and read the bottom line


Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/10/h....ap/index.html

I suggest you reread the links in Pauls post. They were about
outsourcing.

Of course the only acceptable source for the liebrals is the NYT or Boston
Globe, and Slate,. :-)

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:11:45 -0500, "Bert Robbins" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H wrote:
On 10 Mar 2005 17:23:41 -0800, wrote:


* Students in the United States are behind their counterparts in
other countries in math and science, and some Asian countries are
graduating five times as many engineers

************

Until American engineers are willing to work for $500 a month (and a
socialist government picks up all the health care costs, subsidizes
housing, and pays for a free college education for everybody who wants
it)......
there will be five times as many new engineering *jobs* in those
countries as there are in the US. (Jobs that used to be in the US).

Funny how the same executives who would fight to the death to keep big
government out of the US have *no* hesitation in exporting jobs to
countries where big, socialist governments make it possible for people
to work for almost nothing per month.

The answer isn't to establish a socialist government here in the US,
it's expecting our industrial base that gives non-stop lip service to
red, white, and blue patriotism to put its money, and financial
commitment, where its mouth is.

There's not much point trying to educate our kids for hight tech and
engineering jobs. Not when they will be asked to compete with kids on
the other side of the world who can afford to work all month for less
than what the average American pays just to rent a run-down apartment
in a bad neighborhood.


That's the attitude! Give our kids even *more* reason to search for the
easiest
way to get a worthless degree.

The education problem was here before outsourcing. Outsourcing is one of
the
effects of our education problem.



It would be a giggle to know what Herring believes a "worthless" degree
is, since for many, the purpose of higher education is not to learn a
trade, but to further prepare one's mind.

"To further prepare one's mind" for what? Flipping burgers at McD's?

+
I don't get Harry's posts, so I'll respond through you. Hope you don't mind.

A worthwhile degree, in my opinion, is one which enables the person to be
gainfully employed. If you'll look he

http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ocs/sp/ncar0002.pdf

You can get a good feel for which degrees pay decently. Notice that most of
those ranked below 300 don't pay very well. A degree that enables one to be a
waiter wouldn't be very worthwhile. However, we have college graduates with
degrees that may 'prepare one's mind' who can't do much better.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On 10 Mar 2005 20:10:43 -0800, wrote:

Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze.

Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue?

That comment wasn't written to entice disagreement and flaming, was it Chuck?

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On 11 Mar 2005 05:48:19 -0800, wrote:

Exactly what in the articles from Fox and the National Review do you
not
believe?

****************

Shall we start with the source?

Extremist publications and organizations with a proven, active,
political bias are not to be trusted.

We liberals get our news from such objective sources as the NY Times,
the Washington Post, CNN, NPR, etc. :-)

Seriously, that's one of the problems we face today. News is made, or
reported to order. No matter what position you want to support, there
will be some "news" organization more than willing to spin the facts to
support your conclusion.

"Outsourcing is a liberal myth"?

Fantastic. I'll be sure to tell the technical writer, the accountant,
and the engineer with whom I am personally acquainted to go back to the
office today. They will be delighted to learn that their employers
never really closed their office and sent the jobs to India, South
America, and even the UK to save money! According to Faux News and the
National Review, its all been a liberal myth.

Note that you still provided no information which belies that which was posted.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On 10 Mar 2005 18:46:49 -0800, wrote:

John H wrote:

That's the attitude! Give our kids even *more* reason to search for the
easiest
way to get a worthless degree.

The education problem was here before outsourcing. Outsourcing is one
of the
effects of our education problem.


--
******************

If we turned out as many or more engineers as do the Chinese and the
Indians (countries with several times our population and probably not
producing that many more engineers per capita)
the corporations would *still* look around and say:

"We can pay an American graduate, living in the United States, a
starting wage of $1000 a week, plus another $1000 a month in FICA and
fringe benefits, and have that graduate make design computations on a
software program. Or, we can pay and Indian graduate, living in New
Delhi, $125 a week to do the same job and not worry about the fringe
benefits, etc, because the government provides for the sick and the
elderly in India. The Indian graduate will work at least as hard for
the $125 a week, be more grateful to get it, be able to buy an equally
luxurious lifestyle, and when he qualifies for a 10% pay increase after
a year it will cost us $12 a week instead of another $100."

Even Bill Gates, who is loudly wailing about the loss of high tech jobs
to third world countries and is blaming the shift on "poor education",
is laying off some of the most highly educated workers in the world
here in the US to export jobs as fast as he can to a market where his
labor costs are about 20% of what they are here in the US.

You want to train the younger generation for the jobs of tomorrow?
Forget anything that can be done on computer with the results shot
anywhere around the world via the internet.

The best paid new jobs will be in sales and marketing, construction,
mechanical repair, home remodel, travel and entertainment. Medical
professions are safe. Anything that requires the physical presence of a
skilled human being, on site, rather than several thousand miles away
in a socialist, third world economy.

It's a paradigm shift, yet again. Our generation was well compensated
for what we *knew*, but knowledge is portable and you can educate
people who are willing to work and who can afford to work for
substantially less than even poverty-level wages in the US. Our kids
will be paid less for what they know and more for what they can *do*,
and the less exportable the skill set and the greater the requirement
that somebody be physically located where the services are performed
the more the job is likely to pay.

Your last three paragraphs say it all, although I may disagree with the short
list of best paid new jobs. Go he http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ocs/sp/ncar0002.pdf
and you'll find all kinds of occupations that pay well and are not
'outsourceable'. You'll also notice that the best paying require something more
than a 'basket weaving' major in college.

If you'll look at the table he

http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/05/pf/c...ative_degrees/,

you'll see what I'm talking about with regards to the type of degree. Note the
high paying degrees - they aren't liberal arts degrees. Look at the bottom of
the list, Elementary Teacher Education, which is one of the easiest to obtain.
That starting wage applies only if the person can find a job, and they aren't
that easy to find. The supply is simply too great.

A problem is that the number of graduates with the 'hard degrees' is dwindling.
High school graduates are not what they used to be, and therefore they don't get
the 'hard' degrees in college in sufficient numbers. Because the supply is
dwindling, the wages for these folks goes up. Because the number of 'soft (if
any) degree' is increasing, the supply is greater than demand and the wages stay
down.

So we end up with an upper middle class, and more lower middle class (or poor),
and no 'middle' middle class.


--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

"John H" wrote in message
...
On 10 Mar 2005 20:10:43 -0800, wrote:

Faux News and the National Review? Puhleeze.

Hasn't the RNC issued some equally "objective" comment on this issue?

That comment wasn't written to entice disagreement and flaming, was it
Chuck?

Anything besides the NYT, Boston Globe, or Saloon is unacceptable to chucky.



--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."