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Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
According to Transport Canada, a boat is a boat, take it from there.
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Hi, For the Operator's Card requirement, does an electric trolling-motor count as a "motor"? The reason I ask is that Near Cove (8ft Walker Bay) is often fitted with a Minn Kota 30-lb electric, but never a gas outboard. Does my Lady have to have an Operator's Card to run it? ( I have a card, but she doesn't) I've looked at the CG website, even the actual regulations, but can't find a definition of "motor". Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
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Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
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Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: For the Operator's Card requirement, does an electric trolling-motor count as a "motor"? The reason I ask is that Near Cove (8ft Walker Bay) is often fitted with a Minn Kota 30-lb electric, but never a gas outboard. Does my Lady have to have an Operator's Card to run it? ( I have a card, but she doesn't) I've looked at the CG website, even the actual regulations, but can't find a definition of "motor". It does if you live in Connecticut. And you have to have the boat registered to boot. As to definition: Engine: A machine that converts energy into mechanical force or motion. Such a machine distinguished from an electric, spring-driven, or hydraulic motor by its use of a fuel. Motor: Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts motion. A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical power. A motor vehicle, especially an automobile: "It was a night of lovers. All along the highway... motors were parked and dim figures were clasped in revery" (Sinclair Lewis). So, an engine is defined as exclusive from a motor by it's use of energy transfer, but a motor is defined as encompassing all methods of emparting energy into mechanical power for motion. And to tell the truth, I have been misusing those terms for years. I'll be damned. Later, Tom S. Woodstock, CT ---------- "My rod and my reel - they comfort me." St. Pete, 12 Lb. Test |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
You guys are both right. You're arguing oranges and tangarines.
-W wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:21:04 GMT, Rick wrote: wrote: That would be a motorship powered by a diesel ENGINE. Regulators and Engineers have made mistakes before, and they will again. Bavarian Motor Works makes motorcars. A motorcar is not an engine Yamaha makes nice outboard motors. An outboard motor is not an engine Both contain engines. The people who work with them are Engineers, not Motorers. BB |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:14:05 +0000, BinaryBillTheSailo wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:13:43 GMT, Pat Fusk " wrote: According to Transport Canada, a boat is a boat, take it from there. Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Hi, For the Operator's Card requirement, does an electric trolling-motor count as a "motor"? The reason I ask is that Near Cove (8ft Walker Bay) is often fitted with a Minn Kota 30-lb electric, but never a gas outboard. Does my Lady have to have an Operator's Card to run it? ( I have a card, but she doesn't) I've looked at the CG website, even the actual regulations, but can't find a definition of "motor". Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 Motor=Mechanical Propulsion If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are correctly called engines, not motors. BB Actually, I didn't want to get picky, or know the "definition" of motor (vs Engine, etc). I need to know what Transport Canada regards a "motor" because that's the cornerstone of the Operator's Card requirement: that the boat have a "motor". And as we all know, the LEGAL definition of a word is not necessarily the "common" definition (eg "consideration"). I'd like to get my Lady to get her Card anyway, so she can legally operate the Tin Boat, or Far Cove. But she LIKES running Near Cove with the electric, so she's more likely to get one if it's required for that. She clearly does NOT need one to paddle Miss Lily. Lloyd Sumpter - Operator Card #0150026627 |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
She should have one anyway...unless you plan to retire from boating by 2009.
I would bet money that your electric outboard is considered a motor for the 'cards' purpose. If I could find my phamplet, I'd look it up. Lloyd Sumpter wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:14:05 +0000, BinaryBillTheSailo wrote: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:13:43 GMT, Pat Fusk " wrote: According to Transport Canada, a boat is a boat, take it from there. Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Hi, For the Operator's Card requirement, does an electric trolling-motor count as a "motor"? The reason I ask is that Near Cove (8ft Walker Bay) is often fitted with a Minn Kota 30-lb electric, but never a gas outboard. Does my Lady have to have an Operator's Card to run it? ( I have a card, but she doesn't) I've looked at the CG website, even the actual regulations, but can't find a definition of "motor". Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 Motor=Mechanical Propulsion If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are correctly called engines, not motors. BB Actually, I didn't want to get picky, or know the "definition" of motor (vs Engine, etc). I need to know what Transport Canada regards a "motor" because that's the cornerstone of the Operator's Card requirement: that the boat have a "motor". And as we all know, the LEGAL definition of a word is not necessarily the "common" definition (eg "consideration"). I'd like to get my Lady to get her Card anyway, so she can legally operate the Tin Boat, or Far Cove. But she LIKES running Near Cove with the electric, so she's more likely to get one if it's required for that. She clearly does NOT need one to paddle Miss Lily. Lloyd Sumpter - Operator Card #0150026627 |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:12:47 GMT, "Don White" wrote: snip "motor", they describe it as being either 10 H.P. or 7.5 KW in size. Which perhaps explains the popularity of the 9.9 HP designation. surfnturf is electric, gasoline or diesel, it doesn't count unless it is over 10 HP or 7.5 KW in size. That also seems to indicate that Canada considers any type of power to be a "motor", but motors of any kind under a certain size don't count any way. |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
x-no-archive: yes
"surfnturf" wrote: snip "motor", they describe it as being either 10 H.P. or 7.5 KW in size. Which perhaps explains the popularity of the 9.9 HP designation. There is no "perhaps" about that. That is exactly the reason. Just as with 48 and 49 ccm motorcycles. In most jurisdictions, you can drive motorcycles with engines "less than 50 ccm" without motorcycle endorsememtnt on your drivers licence. -- Greetings from Lotusland |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
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Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:53:23 +0000, BinaryBillTheSailo wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:21:04 GMT, Rick wrote: SNIP An outboard motor is not an engine Both contain engines. The people who work with them are Engineers, not Motorers. Actually, the term "Engineer" comes from the latin "ingenieur", which is the same root as the work "ingenious" :). However, after I looked this up in my Funk'n'Dictionary, I found that it's also the root for the word "engine" so you're kinda right after all. Oh, and most "Engineers" don't work on engines - mechanics do. Amazing the arkane trivia you learn from reading rec.boats! (Is this considered "Off-Topic"?) Lloyd Sumpter, P.Eng. |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
If anyone really cares....
I collect and restore outboard motors. But I think "motor" has become a misused word as has engine. Here's my cut at it: A motor is powered buy electricity and an engine is the result of combustion. Hence my 220 volt powered table saw has a motor on it rather than an engine. Also It may be more accurate to say I collect outboard engines. However, since my auto is not propelled with a battery powered motor, I don't have a car motor I have a car engine. Locomotives used to have steam engines (ever hear of a "Steam Motor"), hummm now they have diesel powered electric motors! Commercial airliners don't seem to contain jet motors, they seem to contain jet engines. Etc-ad inifinitum, ad nausaum. But who cares? (I do, I've wanted to correct the world on that for over 50 years! That's my position and I'm stickin' by it ) ! Don Dando "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:53:23 +0000, BinaryBillTheSailo wrote: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:21:04 GMT, Rick wrote: SNIP An outboard motor is not an engine Both contain engines. The people who work with them are Engineers, not Motorers. Actually, the term "Engineer" comes from the latin "ingenieur", which is the same root as the work "ingenious" :). However, after I looked this up in my Funk'n'Dictionary, I found that it's also the root for the word "engine" so you're kinda right after all. Oh, and most "Engineers" don't work on engines - mechanics do. Amazing the arkane trivia you learn from reading rec.boats! (Is this considered "Off-Topic"?) Lloyd Sumpter, P.Eng. |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
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Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message snip Oh, and most "Engineers" don't work on engines - mechanics do. And thank your stars for that! (sorry Lloyd) surfnturf |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
Been motoring around in a number of ways (bus, car, cycle, boat); but have
yet to encounter engine used in that context. Have heard of engine used in somewhat archaic terms to describe a mechanical device used to perform some sort of task. Which is what engineers do (hi Lloyd!). :-)) surfnturf "Curtis CCR" wrote in message om... wrote: If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are correctly called engines, not motors. Don't get too picky, because that is not correct. A "motor" is a device that imparts motion. And engine can just about any mechanical device. An motor could part of an engine. Or a motor itself can be called an engine. So while it's normal to refer to your powerplant as an engine, it no less correct to call it a motor. |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
I agree with you Don, at least that is what I was taught many years ago. But
then "ain't" wasn't considered a word back then. I guess I'm showing my age. "Don Dando" wrote in message ... If anyone really cares.... I collect and restore outboard motors. But I think "motor" has become a misused word as has engine. Here's my cut at it: A motor is powered buy electricity and an engine is the result of combustion. Hence my 220 volt powered table saw has a motor on it rather than an engine. Also It may be more accurate to say I collect outboard engines. However, since my auto is not propelled with a battery powered motor, I don't have a car motor I have a car engine. Locomotives used to have steam engines (ever hear of a "Steam Motor"), hummm now they have diesel powered electric motors! Commercial airliners don't seem to contain jet motors, they seem to contain jet engines. Etc-ad inifinitum, ad nausaum. But who cares? (I do, I've wanted to correct the world on that for over 50 years! That's my position and I'm stickin' by it ) ! Don Dando "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:53:23 +0000, BinaryBillTheSailo wrote: On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:21:04 GMT, Rick wrote: SNIP An outboard motor is not an engine Both contain engines. The people who work with them are Engineers, not Motorers. Actually, the term "Engineer" comes from the latin "ingenieur", which is the same root as the work "ingenious" :). However, after I looked this up in my Funk'n'Dictionary, I found that it's also the root for the word "engine" so you're kinda right after all. Oh, and most "Engineers" don't work on engines - mechanics do. Amazing the arkane trivia you learn from reading rec.boats! (Is this considered "Off-Topic"?) Lloyd Sumpter, P.Eng. |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:14:05 GMT, wrote:
If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are correctly called engines, not motors. The definitions can be found at Bartleby.vom engine SYLLABICATION: en·gine 1a. A machine that converts energy into mechanical force or motion. b. Such a machine distinguished from an electric, spring-driven, or hydraulic motor by its use of a fuel. 2a. A mechanical appliance, instrument, or tool: engines of war. b. An agent, instrument, or means of accomplishment. 3. A locomotive. 4. A fire engine. 5. Computer Science A search engine. http://www.bartleby.com/61/51/E0145100.html motor SYLLABICATION: mo·tor 1. Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts motion. 2. A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical power. 3. A motor vehicle, especially an automobile: “It was a night of lovers. All along the highway … motors were parked and dim figures were clasped in revery” (Sinclair Lewis, Babbitt 1922). http://www.bartleby.com/61/24/M0442400.html An engine, it would seem, is a type of motor. Jack (retired teacher - some Language Arts and English) __________________________________________________ Jack Dale Swiftsure Sailing Academy Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor http://www.swiftsuresailing.com Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free) __________________________________________________ |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
Hey Clams!
Get back to the inline newsgroup- theres no room for hooligans like us in here where all these fine mariners do is argue the finer points of what to call that thing that pushes you around in the water, or is that H2O, errr perhaps agua.... or maybe.... (lol so hard I'm keel-ing over) C-ya back at bigweek Bryan |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
Moot points,
D-day is 2009, then TC says "everyone" operating any vessel in coastal waterways will have to have one. They seem to think this will keep all the idiots off the water. The license test is a joke and a cashgrab. So, we'll have the same problems only they will be licensed then. 2centsworth Bryan |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:58:40 +0000, Bryan Vranes wrote:
Moot points, D-day is 2009, then TC says "everyone" operating any vessel in coastal waterways will have to have one. Not quite. Everyone operating a MOTORIZED vessel. Hence the question... Lloyd |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:58:40 +0000, Bryan Vranes wrote: Moot points, D-day is 2009, then TC says "everyone" operating any vessel in coastal waterways will have to have one. Not quite. Everyone operating a MOTORIZED vessel. Hence the question... Lloyd You have an accident. Your lady can not drive you in the boat to help. She has no operators card. Just have her get the card. Should be no problem for a witch to pass the test. |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
Oooooh-Not nice....... grow up
B |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
"Bryan Vranes" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com... Oooooh-Not nice....... grow up B She even has a witch website. Wikken maybe? |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
Thank you Lloyd, I sit corrected.
I think every law or set of laws embody certain principles for the good of those they protect. I think the present and coming laws set forth will probably be amended continuously as the legal baby crawls and takes it's first steps. Perhaps Transport Canada is still having it's own tug of war with this very issue. To those that aren't sure, who cannot wait, who must know "right now" whether or not they are safe to operate their vessels now and in the future there are 2 choices; Call TC and don't hangup until they give you an answer, or, study 30 minutes, drop a couple of bucks and do the test- it really is quite easy and you'll be able to rest easy for many nights to come. regards Bryan |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
mmmmkay??? (eyebrows raising)
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Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 05:17:55 +0000, Calif Bill wrote:
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:58:40 +0000, Bryan Vranes wrote: Moot points, D-day is 2009, then TC says "everyone" operating any vessel in coastal waterways will have to have one. Not quite. Everyone operating a MOTORIZED vessel. Hence the question... Lloyd You have an accident. Your lady can not drive you in the boat to help. She has no operators card. Just have her get the card. Should be no problem for a witch to pass the test. Uh-huh...YOU wanna tell her that? ;) She doesn't really like helming Far Cove or the Tin Boat, but she DOES like putting around in Near Cove. If I can tell her she needs a license to do that, she might actually get one. She was going to get it at the boat show, but they were charging $40, plus the $10 admission. Others (not at the boat show) charge as little as $25. But she has ADD, so it's hard for her to knuckle down and study. And yes, she is a witch, although she's more on the Kundalini path than wiccan (don't ask me, I'm just a druid!) Lloyd |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
"Don Dando" wrote in message news:r5_Nb.8413 .....Here's my cut at it: A motor is powered buy electricity and an engine is the result of combustion. I agree with you, basically, but here's a wrench to throw into it -- how do we categorize that thing referred to as a "hydraulic motor"? What many friends and I arrived at over the years of trying to define all the powered driving sources aboard large aircraft (combustion, electric, hydraulic, pneumatic, etc.) is this: an internal or external combustion engine converts a fuel (energy source) into an alternate energy form, and that alternate energy form drives the mechanical device that converts the energy to motion. A motor receives the driving energy form directly, and uses it without further modification to drive the mechanical device that converts the energy to motion. Thus, the thing that drives your car or boat (gas or diesel), and the jet that powers a large aircraft, are all engines, since they convert liquid fuel into air pressure, which ultimately drives the device and converts to motion. An electric, hydraulic, or pneumatic "motor" receives energy in a directly usable form, and converts to motion without further change. Having said all that, the Europeans still refer to motorcars, and motor sports, and huge numbers (perhaps a majority) of Americans refer to that thing under the hood as their "motor". JG |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:08:29 +0000, John Gaquin wrote:
"Don Dando" wrote in message news:r5_Nb.8413 .....Here's my cut at it: A motor is powered buy electricity and an engine is the result of combustion. I agree with you, basically, but here's a wrench to throw into it -- how do we categorize that thing referred to as a "hydraulic motor"? What many friends and I arrived at over the years of trying to define all the powered driving sources aboard large aircraft (combustion, electric, hydraulic, pneumatic, etc.) is this: Wow - you guys REALLY need to get a life! ;) Lloyd |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
I have a good one to give them headaches!
While having your canoe towed by a swimming dog is clearly not mechanical propulsion what if you have her running in a wheel and the motion of that wheel is transfered thru a contraption to turn a propeller? It's clear to me you have an engine aboard but not a motor. :-) But better: would you then need the PCO as it could be considered as a mechanical propulsion device as by strict interpretation of the text of the regulation? I think I will have a good time reading your arguments!!! ;-))) Jean Dufour Montreal, Qc Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Wow - you guys REALLY need to get a life! ;) Lloyd |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
I wouldn't call that an engine or mechanical propulsion any more than I would a
person with a set of oars, or a horse hauling a buggy a motor vehicle. I wonder if a sail shouldn't be consider "mechanical" propulsion though. =|:-) The mast and rigging are could be consider parts of a "machine" as well as the sail. A vessel under sail is certainly not human powered. Not sure how you'd rate the horsepower!!!!! On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:37:16 -0500, Jean Dufour wrote: While having your canoe towed by a swimming dog is clearly not mechanical propulsion what if you have her running in a wheel and the motion of that wheel is transfered thru a contraption to turn a propeller? It's clear to me you have an engine aboard but not a motor. :-) |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
"I wonder if a sail shouldn't be consider "mechanical" propulsion though.
=|:-) The mast and rigging are could be consider parts of a "machine" as well as the sail. A vessel under sail is certainly not human powered. Not sure how you'd rate the horsepower!!!!! " I believe that the hp is rated at the square of the wind speed with some formula for the size of the sail, angle of attack, and some constant that allows the engineers to fudge everything into working. OK, so I didn't go to the reference books like I clearly should have, I am not in school today. ;-) Brian |
Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?
Brian Combs wrote:
"I wonder if a sail shouldn't be consider "mechanical" propulsion though. =|:-) The mast and rigging are could be consider parts of a "machine" as well as the sail. A vessel under sail is certainly not human powered. Not sure how you'd rate the horsepower!!!!! " I believe that the hp is rated at the square of the wind speed with some formula for the size of the sail, angle of attack, [dynamically varying sail leech curvature, material stretch, spanwise varying camber and angle of attack, laminar flow and turbulence, boat speed apparant wind less actual wind, etc, etc, etc, an impossibly inconstant equational computation, estimable only, or comparable to a similar boat in similar waves and windage, at similar speed, averaged over time, -tk] and some constant that allows the engineers to fudge everything into working. OK, so I didn't go to the reference books like I clearly should have, I am not in school today. ;-) Brian We are all in school, every instant. A harness is not a machine, but a mere tether, attachments attempting contol over an otherwise wild, uncontrollable beast of nature, the wind, a current, a horse, whatever. A steering wheel is not a perfectly tame motor, even if it is a machine (a string is a machine?) controlling the direction of an engine, a controllable mechanical work multiplyer, prime mover, or motor. Is an oar a machine, or a harness, in which a man works, harnessed by his desire? No Luddite government has any right to license all machines, any more than it may license breathing, nor living itself. The "head tax" was long ago declared illegal under the common law of the land, don't forget. The descendants of Chinese railroad workers are getting the ancient, illegal head tax back. They should get interest, too, but that would break the government, as if it was not already bankrupt. Let's not forget, what started all this powerboat operator - licensing boats hoopla about 5 years ago was supposedly to slow down the PWC kiddy monsters, right? We all bitched about it. High power to weight ratios combined with bad behavoir was to be the target. It's a bad law. Guns don't kill, people kill, by their behavoir. Regular tort law damage suits, nuisance regulations, and vigilante action, etc. weren't able to regulate the kiddies any better than their parents should have done but did not? Because the kiddies ran away, and could, because they were not required to have large numbered identification plates visible on the rear of their vessels, much like the commercial highway trailers shielding the plates on the tractors towing them without useable id plates that "Justice" permits? Corporatism wins another one? Citzens, unite! complain to the police every time you see a truck without plates, follow them, point them out to police. Complain! Demand criminal penalties! Press charges. Go to court, Testify! The trenches of our revolution are not dug into any ground, but float, ephemeral as words, all around each of us. So now, some government department hot to generate more cash turnover and more opportunities for GRAFT have decided to pass some law that infringes on BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS by requiring a FEE illegal according to the MAGNA CHARTA and now you all want to discuss wether or not a sail is a machine, or is a motor an engine? Is it reasonable to change the law of the land by legislating a change in the meaning of words employed correctly in the past? It is not lawful to make any thing that was not illegal yesterday, illegal today. You have become distracted from the real issue here, a tactic that some government agencies are using to better and better advantage, only because you let them do it. Still got beer and TV and pro sports, and Don Cherry? Who needs justice, eh? Who needs freedom of speech? Who, property rights? Who, freedom to think? By God, I'll go down in a burning pool of Sterno before some government gangsters tell me I can't live and eat, sleep and defecate on my boat if I want to, or need to. If I offend a free man, come to me and we will mete justice between us. Failing that, show where I have caused you damages before a magistrate, and he will send bailiffs to extract compensation from me for you. Such is the nature of the only possible system of equal justice for all. All other nonsense is tyrranny and oppression of free men by him with the biggest stick. I will not stand still for it! Verily, The American Revolution was fought to stop this kind of bull****! "The government", a hired bunch of administrators of our common laws, does not own the salty ocean or the free running waters of life. The public does. We, the public, have resolved that wereas it is neccessary to protect us the public from rapacious merchants, bankers and organised corporate gangs who limit their liability by scurrilous means, there must be government administered regulation of the use of the public's highways and waterways to defend the right of the public to unfettered lawful use of the public's roads and waterways, without hindrance, against abuse by powerful business and corporations, who would otherwise chase the public out of any area they want to monopolize for their own profit by threats, even by death, another form of theft. The government has no right or lawful power to demand fees in this regard from the public, and as such, the logical lawful authority in the land (our God given mouldering dead forefathers' bodies and souls who fought for freedom and equality before the law) rightly and lawfully demands that we overturn by force if neccessary any elected government representative who has voted to implement plainly unjust laws. If you don't do it, you have no right to call yourself a free man, you are a pitiable slave to an illegal power structure specifically disallowed in the spirit and letter of the Magna Charta and US Constitution, which is a settlement of law that still and for allways, undeniably determines in perpetuity the true path for justice in a world where all free born men are equal under and before the law. It's black letter law, governing the behavoir of government civil servants and elected representatives. Defend it or lose it to anarchy and tyrrany. Winning it back will be harder than keeping it. Once it's gone, you will want it back. It took 1000 years after Christ died to enact the MAGNA CHARTA, and it has served us well for about 1000 years since. Is the pen still mightier than the sword? Will the truth make you free? Are you worthy of freedom? It was, after all, a mob of honourable strong men, co-operating together, who imposed the charter on a tyrranically governing unjust king, demanding nothing more nor less than natural justice itself for every free man, under threat of death to the king himself by his abused and rightly rebellious vassals. Fight for your rights, or die a slave. Perhaps our best defense is to occupy the jails, eat the free food, write our books, refuse taxes and plug up the 'justice system' so badly that even it sees the error of it's way? File your objection, complaint and tort demanding compensation for damages from illegal government actions denying you the persuit of happiness rendering your boat worthless, and punitive damages too, with the clerk of the local court, and ask loudly about it's status in person every day, pounding on the desk! You must demand justice, or you will not find it. Me angry? Aren't you? Terry K -A sailor. You dare tell me I need a license to safely sail the seas? The waves on God's sea are my judges, none other. I am liable in the extreme for my own stupidity, as is every man, and as every corporation is not. |
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