| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Mars Needs Dim Republicans
Dubya dons a shiny spacesuit, dreams of spending billions to meet little green men. The nation cringes By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist Wednesday, January 14, 2004 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh right like this is exactly what we need. Let us imagine the discussion: "Boys, the nation's in massive reeling record-breaking debt and morale's at an all-time low and disposable American soldiers are dying brutal horrific deaths every day over nothing at all except our greed and flagrant cronyism and corporate petrochemical profiteering. "Our cities are gasping and health care is a joke and we've mauled Medicare beyond recognition, and we're plundering the living hell out of Social Security, the last remaining stable and sound fund left, to try and shore up our rapacious and gluttonous spending. "There are no WMDs and our former allies openly resent us and the poll ratings are slipping and the big glops of warmongering lies are drying like blood stains into a carpet. And it's an election year. Damn. "What's to be done? What could rally a wary country during its time of humiliated need and force-fed ignorance? What could turn this troubled nation around in the face of oily corporate war and fiscal gluttony and environmental savagery? "Why, neato space stations on the moon, and sending men to Mars, that's what!" Yes indeed. Leave it to BushCo to try and slap an astronomically expensive, useless balm on the nation's gaping wounds by vainly attempting to recapture some of that droning faux-'50s and -'60s nostalgia no one really asked for. Remember that time? The "greatest generation"? A time when white-bread repressed often unhappily married segregationist America gathered 'round the ol' black-and-white to gaze in passionate wonder at the images beamed back from the Apollo landings? What a time it was. Don't you want some of that sense of desperate hopefulness back? Of course you do. Got $500 billion to pay for it? Hey, that was the cost estimate for a similar man-on-Mars scheme when Dubya Sr. proposed it in 1989, just before he was promptly laughed off the fiscal stage. Of course, like every obscene BushCo proposal, there was never a mention of how NASA could ever possibly pay for such a venture, and no mention of how BushCo could rape the Treasury that much further to fund random exercises in ridiculous excess. Oh well. Look at it this way. Dubya will, by every account, go down as the worst environmental president in American history. He will also be remembered as the most blindly warmongering president and the least articulate president and the most corporate-shilling president and the most flagrantly fraudulent and borderline treasonous president. And, hence, you can bet your big snakeskin Texas cowboy boots he wants this "big ol' Mars thingy" to be some sort of, you know, legacy. He wants his name in the history books as the one who decided to meet the little green men. He wants to stick a flag in the rusty planet and claim it in the name of, you kow, Ronald Reagan. This from a man who never cared a whit for space exploration in his entire spoon-fed career, a man who never even once visited the famed Johnson Space Center in Houston while serving as Texas governor. And just know half the impulse for this inane new idea is so Shrub can get himself flown to the space-shuttle launch pad and have his picture taken in a shiny spacesuit. How cute. It's got that reek. It's got that reek of typical macho Republican election-year BS, the sort of hollow grandiose chest thumping that stains so many BushCo PR stunts, all war and guns and rockets and oil and big slabs of chemically blasted hormone injected semirancid Texas beef (hey, it's what's for dinner). Look. NASA is wonderful. Space exploration is magnificent and essential and we learn enormous amounts about ourselves in the process. The Spirit rover on Mars right now? Breathtaking. Astounding new technologies are developed during major NASA missions, ideas that trickle down into the cultural mainstream and make life, if not easier, then at least more interesting, or lighter, or thinner, or edible at temperatures down to minus 450 degrees with a battery pack that lasts 127 hours and a new infrared extrasensory ink that can be read by blind comatose monkeys. Space is good. But look again. Our schools are desperate. The Wal-Mart/SUV mentality is a national cancer. Basic services nationwide are being starved and shut down as cities scramble for fiscal scraps. John Ashcroft still has a job. The national treasury has been looted and plundered like never before in American history, toppling from a record surplus to a record deficit in a little over three years, with 3.1 million newly unemployed Americans as a bitter kicker. That tiny blip of an economic "recovery" you keep reading about? Tell that to your unemployed neighbors. And it's just shy of appalling that BushCo is suddenly all atwitter over a massive, impossible, ridiculously expensive scheme to send a manned mission to Mars, when any 5-year-old could come up with roughly 2,323 more vital and needful areas where such huge sums of money could be spent. Can you think of five, just off the top of your head, as you step around that homeless person? Damn right you can. Do we need to recall that sucker-punch $87 bil BushCo reamed through Congress to help pay for our continued occupation of Iraq, a nation that doesn't want us and was never a threat to us and that is now equaling Vietnam in costs, both fiscal and humanitarian? Does Mars mean we get to bring our troops home and save those budget-gutting billions and redirect them toward something progressive? One guess. Maybe we should just shrug it off. Just dismiss it as yet another a silly exercise in political ego and bogus machismo. After all, it's all about big dumb gesture, all about trying to cover up appalling atrocities and insulting policy in an election year -- much like suddenly pretending to care about immigrants, or health care, or gay rights, when your party defines itself as the world headquarters of homophobic pro-corporate isolationism. This is what it boils down to, really: a big joke. There will be no men on Mars in 2020. There will be no massive, super-keen space station on the moon anytime soon. Even BushCo's own financial advisers openly cringe when the Mumbly One tosses up such an obvious and impossibly costly PR stunt, one so clearly designed to instill a false sense of hope and "America rules!" faux patriotism in a country heavily drugged on fear and false righteousness. All well and good, right? All just silly politics as usual, really, just so much election-year flatulence from the administration that brought you the New Vietnam. That is, until you realize who the joke is on. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
basskisser wrote:
... half the impulse for this inane new idea is so Shrub can get himself flown to the space-shuttle launch pad and have his picture taken in a shiny spacesuit. How cute. I want to see GWB land the space shuttle on a carrier. Does this count as a boating-related on-topic post? DSK |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
|
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Well Bass,
Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Walmart/SUV mentality. It is really getting difficult to find American Made products. Last night I was in Office Depot and saw this nifty American Flag Stamp. In 2 colors and well detailed. I was about to buy it until I turned it over and the sticker read "Made in China." I looked on shelf after shelf and could not find even 1 item made in the "good ole USA." I must admit, I was gloomy after shopping. On to Best Buys, I reached for an RCA (Radio Corporation of America) video camera, and lo and behold, it was made in Korea. So, I ended up going home with out buying anything. You see, my own way of protesting is not to buy foreign made products. Regards, Capt. Frank basskisser wrote: Mars Needs Dim Republicans Dubya dons a shiny spacesuit, dreams of spending billions to meet little green men. The nation cringes By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist Wednesday, January 14, 2004 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh right like this is exactly what we need. Let us imagine the discussion: "Boys, the nation's in massive reeling record-breaking debt and morale's at an all-time low and disposable American soldiers are dying brutal horrific deaths every day over nothing at all except our greed and flagrant cronyism and corporate petrochemical profiteering. "Our cities are gasping and health care is a joke and we've mauled Medicare beyond recognition, and we're plundering the living hell out of Social Security, the last remaining stable and sound fund left, to try and shore up our rapacious and gluttonous spending. "There are no WMDs and our former allies openly resent us and the poll ratings are slipping and the big glops of warmongering lies are drying like blood stains into a carpet. And it's an election year. Damn. "What's to be done? What could rally a wary country during its time of humiliated need and force-fed ignorance? What could turn this troubled nation around in the face of oily corporate war and fiscal gluttony and environmental savagery? "Why, neato space stations on the moon, and sending men to Mars, that's what!" Yes indeed. Leave it to BushCo to try and slap an astronomically expensive, useless balm on the nation's gaping wounds by vainly attempting to recapture some of that droning faux-'50s and -'60s nostalgia no one really asked for. Remember that time? The "greatest generation"? A time when white-bread repressed often unhappily married segregationist America gathered 'round the ol' black-and-white to gaze in passionate wonder at the images beamed back from the Apollo landings? What a time it was. Don't you want some of that sense of desperate hopefulness back? Of course you do. Got $500 billion to pay for it? Hey, that was the cost estimate for a similar man-on-Mars scheme when Dubya Sr. proposed it in 1989, just before he was promptly laughed off the fiscal stage. Of course, like every obscene BushCo proposal, there was never a mention of how NASA could ever possibly pay for such a venture, and no mention of how BushCo could rape the Treasury that much further to fund random exercises in ridiculous excess. Oh well. Look at it this way. Dubya will, by every account, go down as the worst environmental president in American history. He will also be remembered as the most blindly warmongering president and the least articulate president and the most corporate-shilling president and the most flagrantly fraudulent and borderline treasonous president. And, hence, you can bet your big snakeskin Texas cowboy boots he wants this "big ol' Mars thingy" to be some sort of, you know, legacy. He wants his name in the history books as the one who decided to meet the little green men. He wants to stick a flag in the rusty planet and claim it in the name of, you kow, Ronald Reagan. This from a man who never cared a whit for space exploration in his entire spoon-fed career, a man who never even once visited the famed Johnson Space Center in Houston while serving as Texas governor. And just know half the impulse for this inane new idea is so Shrub can get himself flown to the space-shuttle launch pad and have his picture taken in a shiny spacesuit. How cute. It's got that reek. It's got that reek of typical macho Republican election-year BS, the sort of hollow grandiose chest thumping that stains so many BushCo PR stunts, all war and guns and rockets and oil and big slabs of chemically blasted hormone injected semirancid Texas beef (hey, it's what's for dinner). Look. NASA is wonderful. Space exploration is magnificent and essential and we learn enormous amounts about ourselves in the process. The Spirit rover on Mars right now? Breathtaking. Astounding new technologies are developed during major NASA missions, ideas that trickle down into the cultural mainstream and make life, if not easier, then at least more interesting, or lighter, or thinner, or edible at temperatures down to minus 450 degrees with a battery pack that lasts 127 hours and a new infrared extrasensory ink that can be read by blind comatose monkeys. Space is good. But look again. Our schools are desperate. The Wal-Mart/SUV mentality is a national cancer. Basic services nationwide are being starved and shut down as cities scramble for fiscal scraps. John Ashcroft still has a job. The national treasury has been looted and plundered like never before in American history, toppling from a record surplus to a record deficit in a little over three years, with 3.1 million newly unemployed Americans as a bitter kicker. That tiny blip of an economic "recovery" you keep reading about? Tell that to your unemployed neighbors. And it's just shy of appalling that BushCo is suddenly all atwitter over a massive, impossible, ridiculously expensive scheme to send a manned mission to Mars, when any 5-year-old could come up with roughly 2,323 more vital and needful areas where such huge sums of money could be spent. Can you think of five, just off the top of your head, as you step around that homeless person? Damn right you can. Do we need to recall that sucker-punch $87 bil BushCo reamed through Congress to help pay for our continued occupation of Iraq, a nation that doesn't want us and was never a threat to us and that is now equaling Vietnam in costs, both fiscal and humanitarian? Does Mars mean we get to bring our troops home and save those budget-gutting billions and redirect them toward something progressive? One guess. Maybe we should just shrug it off. Just dismiss it as yet another a silly exercise in political ego and bogus machismo. After all, it's all about big dumb gesture, all about trying to cover up appalling atrocities and insulting policy in an election year -- much like suddenly pretending to care about immigrants, or health care, or gay rights, when your party defines itself as the world headquarters of homophobic pro-corporate isolationism. This is what it boils down to, really: a big joke. There will be no men on Mars in 2020. There will be no massive, super-keen space station on the moon anytime soon. Even BushCo's own financial advisers openly cringe when the Mumbly One tosses up such an obvious and impossibly costly PR stunt, one so clearly designed to instill a false sense of hope and "America rules!" faux patriotism in a country heavily drugged on fear and false righteousness. All well and good, right? All just silly politics as usual, really, just so much election-year flatulence from the administration that brought you the New Vietnam. That is, until you realize who the joke is on. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Only in America could a song like this NOT be seen as a goof:
I.G.Y. (International Geophysical Year) Donald Fagen Standing tough under stars and stripes We can tell This dream's in sight You've got to admit it At this point in time that it's clear The future looks bright On that train all graphite and glitter Undersea by rail Ninety minutes from NewYork to Paris Well by seventy-six we'll be A.O.K. What a beautiful world this will be What a glorious time to be free Get your ticket to that wheel in space While there's time The fix is in You'll be a witness to that game of chance in the sky You know we've go to win Here at home we'll play in the city Powered by the sun Perfect weather for a streamlined world There'll be spandex jackets one for everyone What a beautiful world this'll be What a glorious time to be free On that train all graphite and glitter Undersea by rail Ninety minutes from NewYork to Paris (More leisure for artists everywhere) A just machine to make big decisions Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision We'll be clean when their work is done We'll be eternally free yes and eternally young What a beautiful world this'll be What a glorious time to be free..... |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
|
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
In article et,
says... "jps" wrote in message ... In article . net, says... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Walmart/SUV mentality. It is really getting difficult to find American Made products. Last night I was in Office Depot and saw this nifty American Flag Stamp. In 2 colors and well detailed. I was about to buy it until I turned it over and the sticker read "Made in China." I looked on shelf after shelf and could not find even 1 item made in the "good ole USA." I must admit, I was gloomy after shopping. On to Best Buys, I reached for an RCA (Radio Corporation of America) video camera, and lo and behold, it was made in Korea. So, I ended up going home with out buying anything. You see, my own way of protesting is not to buy foreign made products. Regards, Capt. Frank Well done Frank. I wish someone would take this cause up for real. While corporations have no legal responsibility (nor the moral cahones) to support their own country, consumers do. Yeah, let's do a total boycott of all foreign goods! Enjoy your walk...'cause you will not find an automobile made in the U.S. from parts made only in the U.S. While you're at it, you better sew your own shoes...'cause I doubt you'll find a pair made in the U.S. from materials made only in the U.S. You are an extremist. More selectivity along with a clear campaign led by consumer advocates might really help our current situation. I'm really curious if a large enough percentage of people would in fact pay a little more for an American made product if that differentiation were made evident. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"jps" wrote in message
... You are an extremist. More selectivity along with a clear campaign led by consumer advocates might really help our current situation. I'm really curious if a large enough percentage of people would in fact pay a little more for an American made product if that differentiation were made evident. Here's a strange idea: Write letters to companies that listen. Paper letters, in envelopes, with a stamps. I recently wrote one to LL Bean, and got a phonecall back from some guy a week later, saying that they're getting quite a bit of feedback about foreign-made items, particularly from men, who are less likely than women to view clothing as 1-year throwaway items. Unfortunately, this takes effort. Sometimes you have to pick up the phone and ask for the CEO's name and the correct address for a paper letter. This takes almost a minute sometimes. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"jps" wrote in message ... In article et, says... "jps" wrote in message ... In article . net, says... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Walmart/SUV mentality. It is really getting difficult to find American Made products. Last night I was in Office Depot and saw this nifty American Flag Stamp. In 2 colors and well detailed. I was about to buy it until I turned it over and the sticker read "Made in China." I looked on shelf after shelf and could not find even 1 item made in the "good ole USA." I must admit, I was gloomy after shopping. On to Best Buys, I reached for an RCA (Radio Corporation of America) video camera, and lo and behold, it was made in Korea. So, I ended up going home with out buying anything. You see, my own way of protesting is not to buy foreign made products. Regards, Capt. Frank Well done Frank. I wish someone would take this cause up for real. While corporations have no legal responsibility (nor the moral cahones) to support their own country, consumers do. Yeah, let's do a total boycott of all foreign goods! Enjoy your walk...'cause you will not find an automobile made in the U.S. from parts made only in the U.S. While you're at it, you better sew your own shoes...'cause I doubt you'll find a pair made in the U.S. from materials made only in the U.S. You are an extremist. More selectivity along with a clear campaign led by consumer advocates might really help our current situation. I'm really curious if a large enough percentage of people would in fact pay a little more for an American made product if that differentiation were made evident. I would. However, historically, the answer has been "no". It's not just corporations' profits driving corporations overseas...the consumer's desire for the lowest priced good is driving 'em away. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net... I'm really curious if a large enough percentage of people would in fact pay a little more for an American made product if that differentiation were made evident. I would. However, historically, the answer has been "no". It's not just corporations' profits driving corporations overseas...the consumer's desire for the lowest priced good is driving 'em away. What do you suppose would happen if they knew that not all consumers are looking for the lowest priced items at all times? You already know what happens if the manufacturers DON'T have this information, right? Or, I suppose you could take the Dave Hall approach and do nothing, because your efforts might not work. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message k.net... I'm really curious if a large enough percentage of people would in fact pay a little more for an American made product if that differentiation were made evident. I would. However, historically, the answer has been "no". It's not just corporations' profits driving corporations overseas...the consumer's desire for the lowest priced good is driving 'em away. What do you suppose would happen if they knew that not all consumers are looking for the lowest priced items at all times? You already know what happens if the manufacturers DON'T have this information, right? Or, I suppose you could take the Dave Hall approach and do nothing, because your efforts might not work. I used to be under the belief that corporation's tax breaks and write-offs ought to be set at a level that's indirectly proportional to the amount of their product that is manufactured overseas. The higher the percentage of goods made overseas, the lower the level of write-offs. For example, if 80% of their product is made overseas, then they lose 80% of their usual corporate write-offs. In order to make things "fair", the same rules would have to apply to foreign corporations selling goods over here...but it'd have to be done via a tariff...and that's the problem. Tariffs don't work. The Hawley-Smoot Tariff was a disaster that only served to prolong the great Depression. It seems that the Dave Hall approach of "doing nothing" might be the only answer. Sure, it's going to hurt in the short term...but I believe in the long term, things will even out. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
You know I would not be adverse to buying foreign goods if they were
playing on a level trading field. You have all these companies selling their goods out of their home country for a great deal more then they sell to the customer overseas. Some good examples of these are Honda, Suzuki, Hyundai and Rolls Royce. And foreign traders are not the only guilty parties. See our own drug industry. You can go to Canada and buy the same, identical drug for up to 75% less then you pay here. All the goods produced by these firms are sold overseas for much less then the domestic price. The goods are dumped into the American consumer pool and snapped up at "discount" prices. What exactly is a "discount price"? Is the item worth less now then it was last week or across the street? No at all. A discount price is arbritary, as value is not absolute. I wonder how many of you realize the markup from raw material to retail? How much does it cost General Motors to make a $27,000.00 Chevy Impala? How much does it cost to make a $10,000.00 1 carat diamond ring? How much does it cost to make a $1.09 bottle of Coke? The answers will shock you! I will post them tomorrow after a short discussion. Capt. Frank NOYB wrote: "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message ink.net... I'm really curious if a large enough percentage of people would in fact pay a little more for an American made product if that differentiation were made evident. I would. However, historically, the answer has been "no". It's not just corporations' profits driving corporations overseas...the consumer's desire for the lowest priced good is driving 'em away. What do you suppose would happen if they knew that not all consumers are looking for the lowest priced items at all times? You already know what happens if the manufacturers DON'T have this information, right? Or, I suppose you could take the Dave Hall approach and do nothing, because your efforts might not work. I used to be under the belief that corporation's tax breaks and write-offs ought to be set at a level that's indirectly proportional to the amount of their product that is manufactured overseas. The higher the percentage of goods made overseas, the lower the level of write-offs. For example, if 80% of their product is made overseas, then they lose 80% of their usual corporate write-offs. In order to make things "fair", the same rules would have to apply to foreign corporations selling goods over here...but it'd have to be done via a tariff...and that's the problem. Tariffs don't work. The Hawley-Smoot Tariff was a disaster that only served to prolong the great Depression. It seems that the Dave Hall approach of "doing nothing" might be the only answer. Sure, it's going to hurt in the short term...but I believe in the long term, things will even out. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:39:13 GMT, "Capt. Frank Hopkins"
wrote: On to Best Buys, I reached for an RCA (Radio Corporation of America) video camera, and lo and behold, it was made in Korea. So, I ended up going home with out buying anything. You see, my own way of protesting is not to buy foreign made products. You must not own very much......... Dave |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:26:50 -0800, jps wrote:
Yeah, let's do a total boycott of all foreign goods! Enjoy your walk...'cause you will not find an automobile made in the U.S. from parts made only in the U.S. While you're at it, you better sew your own shoes...'cause I doubt you'll find a pair made in the U.S. from materials made only in the U.S. You are an extremist. More selectivity along with a clear campaign led by consumer advocates might really help our current situation. I'm really curious if a large enough percentage of people would in fact pay a little more for an American made product if that differentiation were made evident. Assuming that the American made product was not made by a union worker who's under qualified for the job, and who's management can't fire him. And if that worker was not on the rag about their favorite sports team losing the night before, and adopting the "Hey, I'm not going to buy this thing" attitude and other equally "creative" ways to get out of putting in a full day's worth of QUALITY work for their overly inflated wages. And if the cost difference was marginal, then I might consider it. Dave |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Dave Hall wrote in message . ..
On 14 Jan 2004 08:18:00 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: Mars Needs Dim Republicans Dubya dons a shiny spacesuit, dreams of spending billions to meet little green men. The nation cringes By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist Wednesday, January 14, 2004 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh right like this is exactly what we need. Gee, his partisan bias and lack of vision isn't too glaringly apparent is it? Another whining liberal....... Dave Do you think that, with the largest deficit we've EVER had, thanks to BushCo, that we need MORE debt? |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"NOYB" wrote in message ink.net...
"jps" wrote in message ... In article . net, says... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Walmart/SUV mentality. It is really getting difficult to find American Made products. Last night I was in Office Depot and saw this nifty American Flag Stamp. In 2 colors and well detailed. I was about to buy it until I turned it over and the sticker read "Made in China." I looked on shelf after shelf and could not find even 1 item made in the "good ole USA." I must admit, I was gloomy after shopping. On to Best Buys, I reached for an RCA (Radio Corporation of America) video camera, and lo and behold, it was made in Korea. So, I ended up going home with out buying anything. You see, my own way of protesting is not to buy foreign made products. Regards, Capt. Frank Well done Frank. I wish someone would take this cause up for real. While corporations have no legal responsibility (nor the moral cahones) to support their own country, consumers do. Yeah, let's do a total boycott of all foreign goods! Enjoy your walk...'cause you will not find an automobile made in the U.S. from parts made only in the U.S. While you're at it, you better sew your own shoes...'cause I doubt you'll find a pair made in the U.S. from materials made only in the U.S. So, I take this to mean that you are for free trade agreements? NAFTA? |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message link.net...
Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Absolutely! Very good points! |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:26:50 -0800, jps wrote: Yeah, let's do a total boycott of all foreign goods! Enjoy your walk...'cause you will not find an automobile made in the U.S. from parts made only in the U.S. While you're at it, you better sew your own shoes...'cause I doubt you'll find a pair made in the U.S. from materials made only in the U.S. You are an extremist. More selectivity along with a clear campaign led by consumer advocates might really help our current situation. I'm really curious if a large enough percentage of people would in fact pay a little more for an American made product if that differentiation were made evident. Assuming that the American made product was not made by a union worker who's under qualified for the job, and who's management can't fire him. And if that worker was not on the rag about their favorite sports team losing the night before, and adopting the "Hey, I'm not going to buy this thing" attitude and other equally "creative" ways to get out of putting in a full day's worth of QUALITY work for their overly inflated wages. And if the cost difference was marginal, then I might consider it. Dave My friend Bob must be a sick man. He's a union butcher. He works 10 hour days because he loves dealing with the public at the store I shop in. But, he's probably the only union employee in the known universe who's like that. Right, Dave? |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"basskisser" wrote in message
m... "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message link.net... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Absolutely! Very good points! Well....except for the cameras, of course, since we haven't made a decent camera here since the early 1950s. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, jps wrote:
You are an extremist. More selectivity along with a clear campaign led by consumer advocates might really help our current situation. well, we have to keep in mind that you are an asshole I'm really curious yes, that's what all you bisexuals say if a large enough percentage of people would in fact pay a little more for an American made product if that differentiation were made evident. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
No I don't buy a lot of junk. I already have a house full selected by
the spouse. I have no desire to fill the boat too. But I still don't buy importado unless I can't find a patriate product. Sometimes, I have to bite the bullet. Capt. Frank Dave Hall wrote: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:39:13 GMT, "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote: On to Best Buys, I reached for an RCA (Radio Corporation of America) video camera, and lo and behold, it was made in Korea. So, I ended up going home with out buying anything. You see, my own way of protesting is not to buy foreign made products. You must not own very much......... Dave |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ...
"basskisser" wrote in message m... "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message link.net... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Absolutely! Very good points! Well....except for the cameras, of course, since we haven't made a decent camera here since the early 1950s. Kodak is coming around with their new digital cameras. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:09:24 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 13:26:50 -0800, jps wrote: Yeah, let's do a total boycott of all foreign goods! Enjoy your walk...'cause you will not find an automobile made in the U.S. from parts made only in the U.S. While you're at it, you better sew your own shoes...'cause I doubt you'll find a pair made in the U.S. from materials made only in the U.S. You are an extremist. More selectivity along with a clear campaign led by consumer advocates might really help our current situation. I'm really curious if a large enough percentage of people would in fact pay a little more for an American made product if that differentiation were made evident. Assuming that the American made product was not made by a union worker who's under qualified for the job, and who's management can't fire him. And if that worker was not on the rag about their favorite sports team losing the night before, and adopting the "Hey, I'm not going to buy this thing" attitude and other equally "creative" ways to get out of putting in a full day's worth of QUALITY work for their overly inflated wages. And if the cost difference was marginal, then I might consider it. Dave My friend Bob must be a sick man. He's a union butcher. He works 10 hour days because he loves dealing with the public at the store I shop in. But, he's probably the only union employee in the known universe who's like that. Right, Dave? Use your head Doug. Union membership is MANDATORY in many businesses (Gee, I wonder why?). Not all union members take advantage of the system to slack off. But that does not negate the fact that a great many do. Union rules are made to benefit those who don't aspire to be the very best that they can be. In other words they are protectionist, and foster an attitude of mediocrity. Not a good atmosphere if you are trying to make a quality built product. I worked with many of these people and had to deal with these policies and attitudes when I had my first full time job in a factory, and was a card carrying member of the UAW. Dave |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
On 15 Jan 2004 06:19:25 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:
Dave Hall wrote in message . .. On 14 Jan 2004 08:18:00 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: Mars Needs Dim Republicans Dubya dons a shiny spacesuit, dreams of spending billions to meet little green men. The nation cringes By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist Wednesday, January 14, 2004 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh right like this is exactly what we need. Gee, his partisan bias and lack of vision isn't too glaringly apparent is it? Another whining liberal....... Dave Do you think that, with the largest deficit we've EVER had, thanks to BushCo, that we need MORE debt? Get a clue. We've always had debt. Deficit spending is what allows us to do things now, with the promise of paying later. Economists pretty much agree that if it were not for the concept of credit, most of our economy would be in the toilet. Besides, as the economy improves, the investment gains will erase much of that debt. It's not the boogie-man you guys on the left make it out to be. Dave |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Get a clue. We've always had debt. Deficit spending is what allows us
to do things now, with the promise of paying later. Economists pretty much agree that if it were not for the concept of credit, most of our economy would be in the toilet. Besides, as the economy improves, the investment gains will erase much of that debt. It's not the boogie-man you guys on the left make it out to be. Dave Size matters, Dave. Also timing matters, too. -- Marty S. Baltimore, MD USA "Dave Hall" wrote in message ... On 15 Jan 2004 06:19:25 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: Dave Hall wrote in message . .. On 14 Jan 2004 08:18:00 -0800, (basskisser) wrote: Mars Needs Dim Republicans Dubya dons a shiny spacesuit, dreams of spending billions to meet little green men. The nation cringes By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist Wednesday, January 14, 2004 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Oh right like this is exactly what we need. Gee, his partisan bias and lack of vision isn't too glaringly apparent is it? Another whining liberal....... Dave Do you think that, with the largest deficit we've EVER had, thanks to BushCo, that we need MORE debt? Get a clue. We've always had debt. Deficit spending is what allows us to do things now, with the promise of paying later. Economists pretty much agree that if it were not for the concept of credit, most of our economy would be in the toilet. Besides, as the economy improves, the investment gains will erase much of that debt. It's not the boogie-man you guys on the left make it out to be. Dave |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... My friend Bob must be a sick man. He's a union butcher. He works 10 hour days because he loves dealing with the public at the store I shop in. But, he's probably the only union employee in the known universe who's like that. Right, Dave? Use your head Doug. Union membership is MANDATORY in many businesses (Gee, I wonder why?). Not all union members take advantage of the system to slack off. Good. I just wanted to be sure you understood that. I thought maybe you were making another one of your exquisitely stupid absolute statements. But that does not negate the fact that a great many do. Union rules are made to benefit those who don't aspire to be the very best that they can be. All union rules? Do you know why they came to exist initially? In other words they are protectionist, and foster an attitude of mediocrity. All union rules are protectionist? What about rules regarding safety and working conditions? Be careful here, Dave. Your response may make you a target for "ad puer" (not "ad hominem") remarks. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"basskisser" wrote in message
om... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message m... "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message link.net... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Absolutely! Very good points! Well....except for the cameras, of course, since we haven't made a decent camera here since the early 1950s. Kodak is coming around with their new digital cameras. Like I said..... :-) They're a great company. I use lots of their film and chemicals. But, with the exception of joint projects with Nikon, and specialty items made for the government, they haven't had decent optics in almost 50 years. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Unfortunately that is true. Kodak optics are not the best. They use a
lot of plastic lens technology, which is adequate for throw away cameras, but not too good for the semi professional quality I am looking for. This is probably a good reason for Kodak being the overall #3 loser in stock prices last year. I suppose, I shall have to keep the old Roliflex a few more years if I can still find 120 film. I have the same problem with super-8 movie film. Still, I wish I could find a good quality, USA built, video camera. There just don't seem to be any at all. Maybe a few of us in this group should get together and make a new american manufacturing company. We could build high quality widgets, and people will pay for quality! Investor Call! Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message om... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message .com... "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message link.net... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Absolutely! Very good points! Well....except for the cameras, of course, since we haven't made a decent camera here since the early 1950s. Kodak is coming around with their new digital cameras. Like I said..... :-) They're a great company. I use lots of their film and chemicals. But, with the exception of joint projects with Nikon, and specialty items made for the government, they haven't had decent optics in almost 50 years. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:05:00 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . My friend Bob must be a sick man. He's a union butcher. He works 10 hour days because he loves dealing with the public at the store I shop in. But, he's probably the only union employee in the known universe who's like that. Right, Dave? Use your head Doug. Union membership is MANDATORY in many businesses (Gee, I wonder why?). Not all union members take advantage of the system to slack off. Good. I just wanted to be sure you understood that. I thought maybe you were making another one of your exquisitely stupid absolute statements. I've told you before, I don't deal in absolutes. Far too few of them can be proven either one way or another. But that does not negate the fact that a great many do. Union rules are made to benefit those who don't aspire to be the very best that they can be. All union rules? Who said anything about *all* rules? There you go again assuming an absolute and then attributing the claim to me. Do you know why they came to exist initially? Sure, and most of those reasons are long gone. In other words they are protectionist, and foster an attitude of mediocrity. All union rules are protectionist? There you go again. Can't you contemplate an issue without going to absolute extremes? What about rules regarding safety and working conditions? What about them? They are no better than those mandated by OSHA. Dave |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... But that does not negate the fact that a great many do. Union rules are made to benefit those who don't aspire to be the very best that they can be. All union rules? Who said anything about *all* rules? There you go again assuming an absolute and then attributing the claim to me. You said "Union rules are made to benefit......". You did not say "some", "a few", etc. Sounds like you meant "all", until you were pushed to the wall and forced to recant. Do you know why they came to exist initially? Sure, and most of those reasons are long gone. Really? Are you sure you might not want to spend some time doing research this weekend, so you can come back and recant that statement, too? Here's a teaser for you, but there are plenty more out there, and recent ones, too. http://www.labornotes.org/archives/1999/0499/0499b.html In other words they are protectionist, and foster an attitude of mediocrity. All union rules are protectionist? There you go again. Can't you contemplate an issue without going to absolute extremes? You said "...they are protectionist....". You did not modify your statement with other words like "some". You are now recanting your statement. What about rules regarding safety and working conditions? What about them? They are no better than those mandated by OSHA. In cases where a union gets written legal agreements for certain safety standards, they establish a system of recourse that holds up in court. This is often more effective than waiting for OSHA, a beaurocracy, to offer an opinion. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Go to B&H Photo for your film, if you can't find it locally. I'm lucky
enough to have Rochester Institute of Technology here, so there are a couple of amazing photo stores that stock almost everything. For stuff they don't stock, I've ordered from B&H and been happy. www.bhphotovideo.com "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message ink.net... Unfortunately that is true. Kodak optics are not the best. They use a lot of plastic lens technology, which is adequate for throw away cameras, but not too good for the semi professional quality I am looking for. This is probably a good reason for Kodak being the overall #3 loser in stock prices last year. I suppose, I shall have to keep the old Roliflex a few more years if I can still find 120 film. I have the same problem with super-8 movie film. Still, I wish I could find a good quality, USA built, video camera. There just don't seem to be any at all. Maybe a few of us in this group should get together and make a new american manufacturing company. We could build high quality widgets, and people will pay for quality! Investor Call! Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message om... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message .com... "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message link.net... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Absolutely! Very good points! Well....except for the cameras, of course, since we haven't made a decent camera here since the early 1950s. Kodak is coming around with their new digital cameras. Like I said..... :-) They're a great company. I use lots of their film and chemicals. But, with the exception of joint projects with Nikon, and specialty items made for the government, they haven't had decent optics in almost 50 years. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Well, I bought the Rolliflex in the 1963. All in all, not a bad camera.
Its been working just fine for 41 years. That was a ~little~ while before NAFTA. I did lose 3 grand on Kodak stock this year. The only thing I can do is hang on to it and hope it rebounds. I still say that the USA needs a much larger manufacturing base to provide employment and domestic security. CF. wrote: On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:50:11 GMT, "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote: Unfortunately that is true. Kodak optics are not the best. They use a lot of plastic lens technology, which is adequate for throw away cameras, but not too good for the semi professional quality I am looking for. This is probably a good reason for Kodak being the overall #3 loser in stock prices last year. I suppose, I shall have to keep the old Roliflex a few more years if I can still find 120 film. I have the same problem with super-8 movie film. Still, I wish I could find a good quality, USA built, video camera. There just don't seem to be any at all. Yet, you are the proud owner of a German made camera? http://www.rollei.de/en/index.html BB Maybe a few of us in this group should get together and make a new american manufacturing company. We could build high quality widgets, and people will pay for quality! Investor Call! Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message e.com... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message le.com... "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message . earthlink.net... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Absolutely! Very good points! Well....except for the cameras, of course, since we haven't made a decent camera here since the early 1950s. Kodak is coming around with their new digital cameras. Like I said..... :-) They're a great company. I use lots of their film and chemicals. But, with the exception of joint projects with Nikon, and specialty items made for the government, they haven't had decent optics in almost 50 years. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Thanks Doug! Not only do they have the film, but also offer processing,
and at a lower rate then I have been paying at the local "specialty lab." Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: Go to B&H Photo for your film, if you can't find it locally. I'm lucky enough to have Rochester Institute of Technology here, so there are a couple of amazing photo stores that stock almost everything. For stuff they don't stock, I've ordered from B&H and been happy. www.bhphotovideo.com "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message ink.net... Unfortunately that is true. Kodak optics are not the best. They use a lot of plastic lens technology, which is adequate for throw away cameras, but not too good for the semi professional quality I am looking for. This is probably a good reason for Kodak being the overall #3 loser in stock prices last year. I suppose, I shall have to keep the old Roliflex a few more years if I can still find 120 film. I have the same problem with super-8 movie film. Still, I wish I could find a good quality, USA built, video camera. There just don't seem to be any at all. Maybe a few of us in this group should get together and make a new american manufacturing company. We could build high quality widgets, and people will pay for quality! Investor Call! Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message e.com... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message le.com... "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message . earthlink.net... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Absolutely! Very good points! Well....except for the cameras, of course, since we haven't made a decent camera here since the early 1950s. Kodak is coming around with their new digital cameras. Like I said..... :-) They're a great company. I use lots of their film and chemicals. But, with the exception of joint projects with Nikon, and specialty items made for the government, they haven't had decent optics in almost 50 years. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
By the way, they also offer "grey market" goods for most cameras & lenses.
In other words, product that was intended for other countries and has a different warranty. You'll usually see this offered alongside the normal USA product. For some stuff, the warranty may not be that crucial to you, so it's worth a look. And, it's the same product anyway, at least when it's from any of the name-brand established manufacturer's that we're all familiar with. "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message link.net... Thanks Doug! Not only do they have the film, but also offer processing, and at a lower rate then I have been paying at the local "specialty lab." Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: Go to B&H Photo for your film, if you can't find it locally. I'm lucky enough to have Rochester Institute of Technology here, so there are a couple of amazing photo stores that stock almost everything. For stuff they don't stock, I've ordered from B&H and been happy. www.bhphotovideo.com "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message ink.net... Unfortunately that is true. Kodak optics are not the best. They use a lot of plastic lens technology, which is adequate for throw away cameras, but not too good for the semi professional quality I am looking for. This is probably a good reason for Kodak being the overall #3 loser in stock prices last year. I suppose, I shall have to keep the old Roliflex a few more years if I can still find 120 film. I have the same problem with super-8 movie film. Still, I wish I could find a good quality, USA built, video camera. There just don't seem to be any at all. Maybe a few of us in this group should get together and make a new american manufacturing company. We could build high quality widgets, and people will pay for quality! Investor Call! Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message e.com... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message le.com... "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message . earthlink.net... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Absolutely! Very good points! Well....except for the cameras, of course, since we haven't made a decent camera here since the early 1950s. Kodak is coming around with their new digital cameras. Like I said..... :-) They're a great company. I use lots of their film and chemicals. But, with the exception of joint projects with Nikon, and specialty items made for the government, they haven't had decent optics in almost 50 years. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Hi Doug. Isn't the "gray market" an interesting phenomena? The same
product is worth less in another country! How clever! Its what I ment in a post some time ago about the value of manufactured goods not being absolute. BTW. Did you know: A 20 oz coke you pay $1.09 costs 1.7326 cents to manufacture and ship! (Source; 1998 stockholder's report) Now That's what I call a markup! A Chevy Silverado Pickup that costs $28,894.00 (msrp) Costs $1278.00 to manufacture. The paint & tires are the most expensive components. (source; 2002 stockholder's report) A $10,000 diamond ring costs $42.00 to make + the diamond. Diamonds are a free product of nature, and the value is artificially kept high by DeBeers Inc, who holds the world wide monopoly on the stones. All diamonds are supplied through Debeers Inc. There are approximately 1000 tons of unreleased diamonds in DeBeers vaults. Now that is what I call a markup! (Source; The Lapidary Journal) Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: By the way, they also offer "grey market" goods for most cameras & lenses. In other words, product that was intended for other countries and has a different warranty. You'll usually see this offered alongside the normal USA product. For some stuff, the warranty may not be that crucial to you, so it's worth a look. And, it's the same product anyway, at least when it's from any of the name-brand established manufacturer's that we're all familiar with. "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message link.net... Thanks Doug! Not only do they have the film, but also offer processing, and at a lower rate then I have been paying at the local "specialty lab." Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: Go to B&H Photo for your film, if you can't find it locally. I'm lucky enough to have Rochester Institute of Technology here, so there are a couple of amazing photo stores that stock almost everything. For stuff they don't stock, I've ordered from B&H and been happy. www.bhphotovideo.com "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message thlink.net... Unfortunately that is true. Kodak optics are not the best. They use a lot of plastic lens technology, which is adequate for throw away cameras, but not too good for the semi professional quality I am looking for. This is probably a good reason for Kodak being the overall #3 loser in stock prices last year. I suppose, I shall have to keep the old Roliflex a few more years if I can still find 120 film. I have the same problem with super-8 movie film. Still, I wish I could find a good quality, USA built, video camera. There just don't seem to be any at all. Maybe a few of us in this group should get together and make a new american manufacturing company. We could build high quality widgets, and people will pay for quality! Investor Call! Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: "basskisser" wrote in message gle.com... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "basskisser" wrote in message ogle.com... "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message s.earthlink.net... Well Bass, Bush got elected by a "questionable" 347 votes in Florida. I don't think that will happen again. I do think that a Mars/Moon program would provide massive jobs IF the parts, software, and supplies and raw materials are "Made In USA" Absolutely! Very good points! Well....except for the cameras, of course, since we haven't made a decent camera here since the early 1950s. Kodak is coming around with their new digital cameras. Like I said..... :-) They're a great company. I use lots of their film and chemicals. But, with the exception of joint projects with Nikon, and specialty items made for the government, they haven't had decent optics in almost 50 years. |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
|
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
"Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message
ink.net... A Chevy Silverado Pickup that costs $28,894.00 (msrp) Costs $1278.00 to manufacture. The paint & tires are the most expensive components. (source; 2002 stockholder's report) This sounds fishy, although I'm basing my opinion on a Toyota pickup truck. Might be different for the wannabe car companies. :-) |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
Hi Doug,
Thanks for picking up on that. It should have read Chevy Silverado (SOURCE: 1998 Stockholder's report) and the coke was the 2002 stockholder's report. BTW. Coke-a-Cola has been by consistant best stock for years. I am far from the world's best typist. Capt. Frank Doug Kanter wrote: "Capt. Frank Hopkins" wrote in message ink.net... A Chevy Silverado Pickup that costs $28,894.00 (msrp) Costs $1278.00 to manufacture. The paint & tires are the most expensive components. (source; 2002 stockholder's report) This sounds fishy, although I'm basing my opinion on a Toyota pickup truck. Might be different for the wannabe car companies. :-) |
More Republican force-fed Ignorance, or "Martians"
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:12:17 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . But that does not negate the fact that a great many do. Union rules are made to benefit those who don't aspire to be the very best that they can be. All union rules? Who said anything about *all* rules? There you go again assuming an absolute and then attributing the claim to me. You said "Union rules are made to benefit......". You did not say "some", "a few", etc. Sounds like you meant "all", until you were pushed to the wall and forced to recant. I've recanted nothing. I've just corrected your misinterpretation. Do you know why they came to exist initially? Sure, and most of those reasons are long gone. Really? Are you sure you might not want to spend some time doing research this weekend, so you can come back and recant that statement, too? Here's a teaser for you, but there are plenty more out there, and recent ones, too. http://www.labornotes.org/archives/1999/0499/0499b.html Sigh. Another wonderful website. If I put up a website which said that the moon was made of green cheese, would you believe that too? In other words they are protectionist, and foster an attitude of mediocrity. All union rules are protectionist? There you go again. Can't you contemplate an issue without going to absolute extremes? You said "...they are protectionist....". You did not modify your statement with other words like "some". You are now recanting your statement. No, I'm correcting you. What about rules regarding safety and working conditions? What about them? They are no better than those mandated by OSHA. In cases where a union gets written legal agreements for certain safety standards, they establish a system of recourse that holds up in court. This is often more effective than waiting for OSHA, a beaurocracy, to offer an opinion. What? You mean the government isn't the most efficient and effective at promoting and enforcing policies? Gee, what a concept..... Dave |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:38 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com