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Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand . . .
Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand
about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Folks, even the most ignorant among you cannot claim you do not know what the words "sight" and "hearing" mean. Check out what Merriam Webster has to say about it. sight \"sït\ n 1 : something seen or worth seeing 2 : the process or power of seeing; esp : the sense of which the eye is the receptor and by which qualities of appearance (as position, shape, and color) are perceived 3 : inspection 4 : a device (as a small bead on a gun barrel) that aids the eye in aiming 5 : view, glimpse 6 : the range of vision - sight.less adj hear.ing n 1 : the process, function, or power of perceiving sound; esp : the special sense by which noises and tones are received as stimuli 2 : earshot 3 : opportunity to be heard 4 : a listening to arguments (as in a court); also : a session of (as of a legislative committee) in which testimony is taken from witnesses © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated "At all times" means at all times. It means if Ellen is sleeping she is failing to comply with Rule 5. In order to be legal there needs to be a human being seeing AND hearing at all times. This means Rule 5 states ANY long-distance race where solo skipper sleeps is in violation of the rule and an illegal enterprise. Those of you who argue that it only becomes illegal if Ellen has a collision argue falsely. Legal and responsible racing cannot include long-distance solo sailing racing by definition. Neither little Ellen nor anybody else is capable of sight or hearing while they are asleep, exhausted below in a speeding sailboat. Ellen is a whore because she gets paid and has a whole team pimping her engaging in an illegal activity. It's about time real sailors stopped supporting this illegal activity which is detrimental and dangerous to sailors everywhere. I certainly will not identify with, worship or give kudos to any law breaker. Until such time as little Ellen operates legally, I will continue to call a spade a spade. The only record she has broken, in my opinion, is 71 days in violation of Rule 5. It does not matter how much or what kind of electronic measures her boat employs. Unless she stays awake and maintains a look-out by sight and hearing twenty-four hours a day, she is operating illegally. Ellen is a lawbreaker by law and by her own admission. Those who support little Ellen support law breaking. You cannot argue otherwise intelligently. Every argument you attempt to employ will be shot down by the simplicity and explicitness of Rule 5. Captain Neal Warren USCG Licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer ser.# 1045941 --- Safety at sea is no accident. |
Capt. Neal=AE wrote:
Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Spot the newly qualified dayskipper! Most people ignore bits of the Col Regs[1]. Just relax. [1] and plenty of the Highway code to boot. |
"Dan" wrote in message oups.com... Capt. Neal® wrote: Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Spot the newly qualified dayskipper! Most people ignore bits of the Col Regs[1]. Just relax. [1] and plenty of the Highway code to boot. ************************************* Are you saying you have to be caught breaking the law before you are actually breaking the law? I think not! CN |
Capt. Neal=AE wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message Are you saying you have to be caught breaking the law before you are actually breaking the law? I think not! You think right! I'm saying there are thing I choose to ignore. Eg: Col Regs: Motorsailing Triangle Highway code: Wearing a fluresent Jacket as a pedestrian. I've slept for 15 mins when sailing alone, we all have. You'd be inhuman not to. |
wrote:
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:06:19 -0500, Capt. Neal=AE For the rest of us, "maintaining a proper watch at all times" may legally consist of physically taking a look and listen every 30 minutes, every 20 seconds, or every 4 hours, depending on the specific circumstances. You got a source somewhere that demonstrates that a lookout every 4 hours meets the 'lookout at all times' in this first rule? |
Your a dunce BBob. A 4 hour break would not be legal. And your to dumb
to know why. Joe |
Neal wrote:
Legal and responsible racing cannot include long-distance solo sailing racing by definition. Neither little Ellen nor anybody else is capable of sight or hearing while they are asleep, exhausted below in a speeding sailboat. *********** So accept her feat for what it was: a marvelous stunt. Much like going over Niagara Falls in a barrel. Many people have tried it, and some have survived the attempt to become the home town hero for a week or two.There's no doubt it requires courage beyond what most people could muster- but it doesn't make the activity either useful or well advised and certainly should not serve as an inspiration for every yahoo along the river who just happens to own a barrel. Ellen displayed a lot of guts to undertake her stunt, and no small amount of fortitude to complete it. Her sponsors will undoubtedly receive satisfactory returns on their investments as every bit of gear that was aboard that boat will now be marketed with a burst on the packaging, "Broke the solo circumnavigation record with Ellen!" (actually, "broke" is a negative word in marketing, will probably say "set"). We marvel at her accomplishment because most of us realize that we would be unlikely to attempt anything similar. Some will even say, "I'm brave enough, and fit enough, and sailor enough to do that well or better- but I'm too fricking smart to try"....sure. She did a remarkable thing, but like those previously engaged in the same activity she was perfroming a stunt moreso than completing a voyage. |
wrote:
On 8 Feb 2005 08:55:34 -0800, "Dan" The Colregs do not specify exactly what you have to do to maintain a proper watch at all times. That is purposely left for a court to adjucate on a case by case basis. In that case there must be some prior cases. I'm not disagreeing. I just want some evidence. |
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This reg only really matters if there is an "incident"..... at which point a
solo sailor cannot use this fact as an excuse. It is a clear example of rules generated by lawyers and politicans......... If ANY solo was have a 10 minute kip / made a cup of tea / put a note on the chart / had a **** / etc and something happens they will get the blame....... This would be exactly the same if you didn't have a motorsailing day signal in place you would in the rules be at fault. That said..... it really is a bit anal to expect ppl to comply in all circumstances. And try to remember...... every yachtmaster was a dayskipper once............................ Matt "Dan" wrote in message oups.com... Capt. Neal® wrote: "Dan" wrote in message Are you saying you have to be caught breaking the law before you are actually breaking the law? I think not! You think right! I'm saying there are thing I choose to ignore. Eg: Col Regs: Motorsailing Triangle Highway code: Wearing a fluresent Jacket as a pedestrian. I've slept for 15 mins when sailing alone, we all have. You'd be inhuman not to. |
wrote in message The Colregs do not specify exactly what you have to do to maintain a proper watch at all times. That is purposely left for a court to adjucate on a case by case basis. According to Jim Austin in Ocean Navigator - "ColRegs and Inland Rule 5 are identical in their description as to the lookout requirement: "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing AS WELL AS BY ALL AVAILABLE MEANS APPROPRIATE" (emphasis added). The last phrase adds, by implication, both radar and radio to the requirement. (Courts have looked at binoculars, the depth sounder, radar and radio as included in the armamentarium for a proper lookout.)" CM |
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:06:19 -0500, Capt. Neal®
wrote: Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Get a life. It was a stunt and stunts are, by definition, dangerous. Besides, like or not, no harm, no foul. Simple at that. Later, Tom |
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? rant snipped Captain Neal Warren USCG Licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer ser.# 1045941 --- Safety at sea is no accident. What's that funny smell? Oh yes, hard cheese. If there was a world class US single handed sailor I bet you would change your tune. John |
wrote in message You have run into the end of a dock on your starboard side. You were keeping a CONSTANT ear and eyeball watch , but not a "proper watch at all times". When you get to court, what portion of the blame do you suppose will be alloted to the dock? Do you usually provide scenarios which defy logic to substantiate logic?? CM |
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:06:19 -0500, Capt. Neal®
wrote: Those who support little Ellen support law breaking. You cannot argue otherwise intelligently. Every argument you attempt to employ will be shot down by the simplicity and explicitness of Rule 5. Captain Neal Warren USCG Licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer ser.# 1045941 --- Safety at sea is no accident. Geeze, who ****ed in your cornflakes? Dave |
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
... Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Proper? What is proper? If it means 'sufficient to avoid collision' then Ellen's must have been 'proper'. |
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Troll
Plonk "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? |
Capt.
What are you worried about her sail boat colliding with your ship? It's a risk she chooses to take as have many others through the years. There's always one out there that's a stickler for the "rules". You must be one that never ever breaks a rule. Like posting to multiple newsgroups for example. Paul Capt. Neal® wrote: Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Folks, even the most ignorant among you cannot claim you do not know what the words "sight" and "hearing" mean. Check out what Merriam Webster has to say about it. sight \"sït\ n 1 : something seen or worth seeing 2 : the process or power of seeing; esp : the sense of which the eye is the receptor and by which qualities of appearance (as position, shape, and color) are perceived 3 : inspection 4 : a device (as a small bead on a gun barrel) that aids the eye in aiming 5 : view, glimpse 6 : the range of vision - sight.less adj hear.ing n 1 : the process, function, or power of perceiving sound; esp : the special sense by which noises and tones are received as stimuli 2 : earshot 3 : opportunity to be heard 4 : a listening to arguments (as in a court); also : a session of (as of a legislative committee) in which testimony is taken from witnesses © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated "At all times" means at all times. It means if Ellen is sleeping she is failing to comply with Rule 5. In order to be legal there needs to be a human being seeing AND hearing at all times. This means Rule 5 states ANY long-distance race where solo skipper sleeps is in violation of the rule and an illegal enterprise. Those of you who argue that it only becomes illegal if Ellen has a collision argue falsely. Legal and responsible racing cannot include long-distance solo sailing racing by definition. Neither little Ellen nor anybody else is capable of sight or hearing while they are asleep, exhausted below in a speeding sailboat. Ellen is a whore because she gets paid and has a whole team pimping her engaging in an illegal activity. It's about time real sailors stopped supporting this illegal activity which is detrimental and dangerous to sailors everywhere. I certainly will not identify with, worship or give kudos to any law breaker. Until such time as little Ellen operates legally, I will continue to call a spade a spade. The only record she has broken, in my opinion, is 71 days in violation of Rule 5. It does not matter how much or what kind of electronic measures her boat employs. Unless she stays awake and maintains a look-out by sight and hearing twenty-four hours a day, she is operating illegally. Ellen is a lawbreaker by law and by her own admission. Those who support little Ellen support law breaking. You cannot argue otherwise intelligently. Every argument you attempt to employ will be shot down by the simplicity and explicitness of Rule 5. Captain Neal Warren USCG Licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer ser.# 1045941 --- Safety at sea is no accident. |
Dan wrote:
wrote: On 8 Feb 2005 08:55:34 -0800, "Dan" The Colregs do not specify exactly what you have to do to maintain a proper watch at all times. That is purposely left for a court to adjucate on a case by case basis. In that case there must be some prior cases. I'm not disagreeing. I just want some evidence. There have been numerous cases that involved the issue of a proper lookout. Many court decisions have set precedents, and many textbooks have written on it. However, the fundamental concept they focus on the question of whether a better lookout could have prevented a particular incident. For instance, and early ruling says that a proper lookout is so designated, and this must be his primary duty. However, a later decision allowed that a lookout could also sound a fog horn. However, a lookout can't also be a navigator. But if you apply decisions based on large ships, you end up requiring an impossibly large crew for a small boat. The courts don't require the same level of "lookout" on a small boat. Further, failure to have a proper lookout (or failure to comply with any rule) is not penalized unless it contributes to an accident. However, if you're looking for a court decision relevant to this situation, the ruling that I posted (again below) involves David Scully, who was sailing the single hand racing boat Coyote (an Open 60?), which he had chartered from the widow of Mike Plant. (Actually, I don't think they were married before Mike disappeared when the keel fell off in the mid-Atlantic). Scully was sleeping during a qualifying run from the Azores to Newport when Coyote hit a fishing boat off Nova Scotia. Its interesting reading - the original decision apparently cited the "vessel moving should avoid vessel stationary" concept, but the appeal court agreed with Scully that the fishing boat was not really "stationary" according to the law, since it was not anchored. But the court held that the lack of a lookout was the primary cause of the incident. The fact that Coyote was not running its radar, lights, or radios didn't help. http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/961209.P.pdf One more point - although Neal keeps claiming that not having a lookout is "illegal." As far as I know, there is no "law" that says you must follow the ColRegs in international water. That is, there is no penalty for failing to comply, unless that failure leads to an accident. In inland waters, that is not the case - you can be penalized for not having proper lights, etc. |
Duh! Go to the back of the class, Vito! "Proper" is defined by the content of Rule 5. Here's your lesson for today. Study it hard and please forego the wanking. Rule 5 Look-out "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." Be so kind as to allow me to re-state it so even someone of Italian heritage might understand. "A proper look-out is defined by every vessel at all times maintaining a look-out by sight as well as by hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." I hope this helps. CN "Vito" wrote in message ... "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Proper? What is proper? If it means 'sufficient to avoid collision' then Ellen's must have been 'proper'. |
BBob, you're as stupid as Vito. Rule 5 defines what constitutes a proper look-out. Try reading it again. Here. I'll make it easy for you. . . Rule 5 Look-out "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." Be so kind as to allow me to re-state it so even a Bobsprit clone might understand. "A proper look-out is defined by every vessel at all times maintaining a look-out by sight as well as by hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." I hope this helps. CN wrote in message ... On 8 Feb 2005 09:12:43 -0800, "Dan" wrote: wrote: On 8 Feb 2005 08:55:34 -0800, "Dan" The Colregs do not specify exactly what you have to do to maintain a proper watch at all times. That is purposely left for a court to adjucate on a case by case basis. In that case there must be some prior cases. I'm not disagreeing. I just want some evidence. I'm not sure what there is to disagree with. It's possible that no one has ever been brought to court who kept watch by looking around and listening exactly every four hours. What I stated would be true for someone who looked around only every 8 hours. The fact remains that the colregs does not specify what constitutes a proper watch, and it would be up to a court to make the determination. You may think you have some notion of what YOU think is a proper watch, but that is neither part of the colregs, or the opinion of a court. Where does the colregs specify how often you must look around with your eyes for your watch to be considered proper? The court, after hearing the case, would determine whether or not the watch had been proper. BB |
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... One more point - although Neal keeps claiming that not having a lookout is "illegal." As far as I know, there is no "law" that says you must follow the ColRegs in international water. That is, there is no penalty for failing to comply, unless that failure leads to an accident. In inland waters, that is not the case - you can be penalized for not having proper lights, etc. Bwahahahahhahahahahhahaha! Did you know the Coast Guard can, does and will write a citation for not displaying an anchor light if anchored in international waters? (outside of a few designated anchorages, that is.) Jeff, before you play the lawyer perhaps you should seek out a law school and matriculate. CN |
One knows he has won the argument and the opponent
is humiliated when said opponent resorts to ad hominem attacks. Bwaaaahhahhahahahhahahahahah! May I offer you a handkerchief so you can dry those tears? CN wrote in message ... On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 14:23:31 -0500, Capt. Neal® wrote: Rule 5 defines what constitutes a proper look-out. No, it most emphatically does not. Try reading it again. Here. I'll make it easy for you. . . Rule 5 Look-out "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." maintaing a watch at all times is not the same thing as maintaining a watch constantly without interuption. You breathe "at all times", but sometimes you are inhaling, sometimes you are exhaling, and sometimes you are doing neither. I hope this helps. You are pretty much beyond help, baby ****er. BB Newsgroups: alt.sailing.asa From: "Capt. Neal®" Date: 1999/12/12 Subject: P30 Lowrider Correction. Those were not electric shocks that made Bobsprit's boat bounce up and down. They were hydraulic jackstands. I think you also need a lesson about flat-chested women. Flat chested women are, almost without exception, better lovers. They have had to develop certain skills below the waistline in order to compensate for their small mammaries. They know what it takes to please a man because of it. I don't know about you but I have never had a pair of mammaries, regardless of how big they were, give me what an educated vagina can. There is yet another reason why every man should learn to love flat-chested women . . . many young women do not grow them until they are 12 or 13. Would you honestly rule them out because of it? Respectfully, Capt. Neal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CN wrote in message ... On 8 Feb 2005 09:12:43 -0800, "Dan" wrote: wrote: On 8 Feb 2005 08:55:34 -0800, "Dan" The Colregs do not specify exactly what you have to do to maintain a proper watch at all times. That is purposely left for a court to adjucate on a case by case basis. In that case there must be some prior cases. I'm not disagreeing. I just want some evidence. I'm not sure what there is to disagree with. It's possible that no one has ever been brought to court who kept watch by looking around and listening exactly every four hours. What I stated would be true for someone who looked around only every 8 hours. The fact remains that the colregs does not specify what constitutes a proper watch, and it would be up to a court to make the determination. You may think you have some notion of what YOU think is a proper watch, but that is neither part of the colregs, or the opinion of a court. Where does the colregs specify how often you must look around with your eyes for your watch to be considered proper? The court, after hearing the case, would determine whether or not the watch had been proper. BB |
Capt. Neal® wrote:
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... One more point - although Neal keeps claiming that not having a lookout is "illegal." As far as I know, there is no "law" that says you must follow the ColRegs in international water. That is, there is no penalty for failing to comply, unless that failure leads to an accident. In inland waters, that is not the case - you can be penalized for not having proper lights, etc. Bwahahahahhahahahahhahaha! Did you know the Coast Guard can, does and will write a citation for not displaying an anchor light if anchored in international waters? (outside of a few designated anchorages, that is.) No, they don't. They may do it outside the Colregs line, but not in international waters. |
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... One more point - although Neal keeps claiming that not having a lookout is "illegal." As far as I know, there is no "law" that says you must follow the ColRegs in international water. That is, there is no penalty for failing to comply, unless that failure leads to an accident. In inland waters, that is not the case - you can be penalized for not having proper lights, etc. Bwahahahahhahahahahhahaha! Did you know the Coast Guard can, does and will write a citation for not displaying an anchor light if anchored in international waters? (outside of a few designated anchorages, that is.) Jeff, before you play the lawyer perhaps you should seek out a law school and matriculate. CN Can someone explain how this boating thread is any better than the worst of the OT political threads often complained about by some here at rec.boats? |
Capt. Neal® wrote:
Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Folks, even the most ignorant among you cannot claim you do not know what the words "sight" and "hearing" mean. Check out what Merriam Webster has to say about it. sight \"sït\ n 1 : something seen or worth seeing 2 : the process or power of seeing; esp : the sense of which the eye is the receptor and by which qualities of appearance (as position, shape, and color) are perceived 3 : inspection 4 : a device (as a small bead on a gun barrel) that aids the eye in aiming 5 : view, glimpse 6 : the range of vision - sight.less adj hear.ing n 1 : the process, function, or power of perceiving sound; esp : the special sense by which noises and tones are received as stimuli 2 : earshot 3 : opportunity to be heard 4 : a listening to arguments (as in a court); also : a session of (as of a legislative committee) in which testimony is taken from witnesses © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated "At all times" means at all times. It means if Ellen is sleeping she is failing to comply with Rule 5. In order to be legal there needs to be a human being seeing AND hearing at all times. This means Rule 5 states ANY long-distance race where solo skipper sleeps is in violation of the rule and an illegal enterprise. Those of you who argue that it only becomes illegal if Ellen has a collision argue falsely. Legal and responsible racing cannot include long-distance solo sailing racing by definition. Neither little Ellen nor anybody else is capable of sight or hearing while they are asleep, exhausted below in a speeding sailboat. Ellen is a whore because she gets paid and has a whole team pimping her engaging in an illegal activity. It's about time real sailors stopped supporting this illegal activity which is detrimental and dangerous to sailors everywhere. I certainly will not identify with, worship or give kudos to any law breaker. Until such time as little Ellen operates legally, I will continue to call a spade a spade. The only record she has broken, in my opinion, is 71 days in violation of Rule 5. It does not matter how much or what kind of electronic measures her boat employs. Unless she stays awake and maintains a look-out by sight and hearing twenty-four hours a day, she is operating illegally. Ellen is a lawbreaker by law and by her own admission. Those who support little Ellen support law breaking. You cannot argue otherwise intelligently. Every argument you attempt to employ will be shot down by the simplicity and explicitness of Rule 5. Captain Neal Warren USCG Licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer ser.# 1045941 --- Safety at sea is no accident. Oy! What a load of twaddle. Why don't you just go and **** up a rope! If it was up to you, you would keelhaul every singlehander on sight. Then you could go down to the local dive and swap stories with your close buddy Capt. Joseph Hazelwood. Done feeding the Troll. Paul E. -- "To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society" - Theodore Roosevelt |
"JimH" wrote in message Can someone explain how this boating thread is any better than the worst of the OT political threads often complained about by some here at rec.boats? Geez jimmy... it has to do with boats... Are all you guys at rec.boats such whiners or is it that jimmy boy is the group weenie? CM |
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in message , Jeff Morris
') wrote: One more point - although Neal keeps claiming that not having a lookout is "illegal."Â*Â*AsÂ*farÂ*asÂ*IÂ*know,Â*thereÂ*isÂ*no Â*"law"Â*thatÂ*says youÂ*must follow the ColRegs in international water.Â* That's a bit definitional. There _is_ a law, it's the ColRegs, which are established by international treaty, and it does, as Neal says, require 'a proper lookout at all times'. The fact that there aren't nautical traffic cops lurking behind every iceberg in the southern ocean doesn't mean the law doesn't apply. Technically, I think single handing probably is illegal, and in boats as large, heavy and fast as B&Q/Castorama, I think it does raise some ethical issues - you really could be putting other people's lives at risk. But do you want to live in a world without great solo achievements? Everything in life involves some degree of risk, and a one and a half ton motor car travelling at 64 mph has the same kinetic energy - and the same ability to kill - as a six ton trimaran travelling at 16 mph. And the southern ocean isn't exactly crowded these days. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ---===*** This space to let! ***===--- Yes! You, too, can SPAM in the Famous Brooke Rotating .sig! ---===*** Only $300 per line ***===--- |
in message , Capt. Neal®
') wrote: "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... One more point - although Neal keeps claiming that not having a lookout is "illegal." As far as I know, there is no "law" that says you must follow the ColRegs in international water. That is, there is no penalty for failing to comply, unless that failure leads to an accident. In inland waters, that is not the case - you can be penalized for not having proper lights, etc. Did you know the Coast Guard can, does and will write a citation for not displaying an anchor light if anchored in international waters? (outside of a few designated anchorages, that is.) Do you know that the Coast Guard (UK, US or whoevers else you like) has absolutely no jurisdiction whatsoever in international waters, so they can write as many citations as they like? -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ I'm fed up with Life 1.0. I never liked it much and now it's getting me down. I think I'll upgrade to MSLife 97 -- you know, the one that comes in a flash new box and within weeks you're crawling with bugs. |
"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message news:r3aOd.14517$K54.2604@edtnps84... "JimH" wrote in message Can someone explain how this boating thread is any better than the worst of the OT political threads often complained about by some here at rec.boats? Geez jimmy... it has to do with boats... Are all you guys at rec.boats such whiners or is it that jimmy boy is the group weenie? CM *ploink* Another asshole joins Krause in the bozo bin. |
Ok folks,
You all have missed it. Little Ellen can not be convicted for violation of COLREG #5. And I'll show you.. Capt. Neal states that COLREG Rule #5 "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." IN THE PREVAILING CIRCUMSTANCES AND CONDITIONS (Little Ellen WAS solo) Capt. Neal wrote: "Neither little Ellen nor anybody else is capable of sight or hearing while they are asleep, exhausted below in a speeding sailboat." So by his own admittance, as a USCG Licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer ser.# 1045941 that Little Ellen was exhausted and IN THE PREVAILING CIRCUMSTANCE AND CONDITIONS of being solo, had to sleep, and could not keep a proper look out. So did she break the law? Yes. But IN THE PREVAILING CIRCUMSTANCES AND CONDITIONS of being SOLO, She had to. So good luck trying to find a court that will convict her on not having a proper look out in the prevailing circumstances and conditions. Now if you want to get picky, You can go give that guy who lasted 2 weeks at sea on a log raft after the tsunami a ticket. No proper look out, No night time running lights, Non-registered Vessel, un-seaworthy craft, failing to file a float plan, and the list goes on. And don't forget to give a ticket to all those who been stranded at sea in a rubber raft for the same thing. In The Prevailing Circumstances is in the prevailing circumstance. It does not state what that circumstance is. It does not state if it is life threating, a 30ft vessel, log raft, or a rubber raft. And it does not state what those conditions are to be also. And besides, it just sounds like Capt Neal is being ****y because the person he was rooting for didn't win. Have a great day... Ship Skipper "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Folks, even the most ignorant among you cannot claim you do not know what the words "sight" and "hearing" mean. Check out what Merriam Webster has to say about it. sight \"sït\ n 1 : something seen or worth seeing 2 : the process or power of seeing; esp : the sense of which the eye is the receptor and by which qualities of appearance (as position, shape, and color) are perceived 3 : inspection 4 : a device (as a small bead on a gun barrel) that aids the eye in aiming 5 : view, glimpse 6 : the range of vision - sight.less adj hear.ing n 1 : the process, function, or power of perceiving sound; esp : the special sense by which noises and tones are received as stimuli 2 : earshot 3 : opportunity to be heard 4 : a listening to arguments (as in a court); also : a session of (as of a legislative committee) in which testimony is taken from witnesses © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated "At all times" means at all times. It means if Ellen is sleeping she is failing to comply with Rule 5. In order to be legal there needs to be a human being seeing AND hearing at all times. This means Rule 5 states ANY long-distance race where solo skipper sleeps is in violation of the rule and an illegal enterprise. Those of you who argue that it only becomes illegal if Ellen has a collision argue falsely. Legal and responsible racing cannot include long-distance solo sailing racing by definition. Neither little Ellen nor anybody else is capable of sight or hearing while they are asleep, exhausted below in a speeding sailboat. Ellen is a whore because she gets paid and has a whole team pimping her engaging in an illegal activity. It's about time real sailors stopped supporting this illegal activity which is detrimental and dangerous to sailors everywhere. I certainly will not identify with, worship or give kudos to any law breaker. Until such time as little Ellen operates legally, I will continue to call a spade a spade. The only record she has broken, in my opinion, is 71 days in violation of Rule 5. It does not matter how much or what kind of electronic measures her boat employs. Unless she stays awake and maintains a look-out by sight and hearing twenty-four hours a day, she is operating illegally. Ellen is a lawbreaker by law and by her own admission. Those who support little Ellen support law breaking. You cannot argue otherwise intelligently. Every argument you attempt to employ will be shot down by the simplicity and explicitness of Rule 5. Captain Neal Warren USCG Licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer ser.# 1045941 --- Safety at sea is no accident. |
He's just a troll... forget him. But, nice explanation.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Ship Skipper" wrote in message ... Ok folks, You all have missed it. Little Ellen can not be convicted for violation of COLREG #5. And I'll show you.. Capt. Neal states that COLREG Rule #5 "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." IN THE PREVAILING CIRCUMSTANCES AND CONDITIONS (Little Ellen WAS solo) Capt. Neal wrote: "Neither little Ellen nor anybody else is capable of sight or hearing while they are asleep, exhausted below in a speeding sailboat." So by his own admittance, as a USCG Licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer ser.# 1045941 that Little Ellen was exhausted and IN THE PREVAILING CIRCUMSTANCE AND CONDITIONS of being solo, had to sleep, and could not keep a proper look out. So did she break the law? Yes. But IN THE PREVAILING CIRCUMSTANCES AND CONDITIONS of being SOLO, She had to. So good luck trying to find a court that will convict her on not having a proper look out in the prevailing circumstances and conditions. Now if you want to get picky, You can go give that guy who lasted 2 weeks at sea on a log raft after the tsunami a ticket. No proper look out, No night time running lights, Non-registered Vessel, un-seaworthy craft, failing to file a float plan, and the list goes on. And don't forget to give a ticket to all those who been stranded at sea in a rubber raft for the same thing. In The Prevailing Circumstances is in the prevailing circumstance. It does not state what that circumstance is. It does not state if it is life threating, a 30ft vessel, log raft, or a rubber raft. And it does not state what those conditions are to be also. And besides, it just sounds like Capt Neal is being ****y because the person he was rooting for didn't win. Have a great day... Ship Skipper "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Folks, even the most ignorant among you cannot claim you do not know what the words "sight" and "hearing" mean. Check out what Merriam Webster has to say about it. sight \"sït\ n 1 : something seen or worth seeing 2 : the process or power of seeing; esp : the sense of which the eye is the receptor and by which qualities of appearance (as position, shape, and color) are perceived 3 : inspection 4 : a device (as a small bead on a gun barrel) that aids the eye in aiming 5 : view, glimpse 6 : the range of vision - sight.less adj hear.ing n 1 : the process, function, or power of perceiving sound; esp : the special sense by which noises and tones are received as stimuli 2 : earshot 3 : opportunity to be heard 4 : a listening to arguments (as in a court); also : a session of (as of a legislative committee) in which testimony is taken from witnesses © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated "At all times" means at all times. It means if Ellen is sleeping she is failing to comply with Rule 5. In order to be legal there needs to be a human being seeing AND hearing at all times. This means Rule 5 states ANY long-distance race where solo skipper sleeps is in violation of the rule and an illegal enterprise. Those of you who argue that it only becomes illegal if Ellen has a collision argue falsely. Legal and responsible racing cannot include long-distance solo sailing racing by definition. Neither little Ellen nor anybody else is capable of sight or hearing while they are asleep, exhausted below in a speeding sailboat. Ellen is a whore because she gets paid and has a whole team pimping her engaging in an illegal activity. It's about time real sailors stopped supporting this illegal activity which is detrimental and dangerous to sailors everywhere. I certainly will not identify with, worship or give kudos to any law breaker. Until such time as little Ellen operates legally, I will continue to call a spade a spade. The only record she has broken, in my opinion, is 71 days in violation of Rule 5. It does not matter how much or what kind of electronic measures her boat employs. Unless she stays awake and maintains a look-out by sight and hearing twenty-four hours a day, she is operating illegally. Ellen is a lawbreaker by law and by her own admission. Those who support little Ellen support law breaking. You cannot argue otherwise intelligently. Every argument you attempt to employ will be shot down by the simplicity and explicitness of Rule 5. Captain Neal Warren USCG Licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer ser.# 1045941 --- Safety at sea is no accident. |
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"JimH" wrote in message *ploink* Another asshole joins Krause in the bozo bin. If you can't take the heat Jimbo... don't cross post! BTW - even your Plonk sounds Gay! You whiner!! *Can some kind soul repost this so lil jimmy can read it.. thanx!* CM |
Capt. Neal® wrote:
Just what don't you little Ellen supporters understand about the first part of the following COLREG Rule? Rule 5 Look-out Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight as well as by hearing . . . Folks, even the most ignorant among you cannot claim you do not know what the words "sight" and "hearing" mean. Check out what Merriam Webster has to say about it. sight \"sït\ n 1 : something seen or worth seeing 2 : the process or power of seeing; esp : the sense of which the eye is the receptor and by which qualities of appearance (as position, shape, and color) are perceived 3 : inspection 4 : a device (as a small bead on a gun barrel) that aids the eye in aiming 5 : view, glimpse 6 : the range of vision - sight.less adj hear.ing n 1 : the process, function, or power of perceiving sound; esp : the special sense by which noises and tones are received as stimuli 2 : earshot 3 : opportunity to be heard 4 : a listening to arguments (as in a court); also : a session of (as of a legislative committee) in which testimony is taken from witnesses © 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated "At all times" means at all times. It means if Ellen is sleeping she is failing to comply with Rule 5. In order to be legal there needs to be a human being seeing AND hearing at all times. This means Rule 5 states ANY long-distance race where solo skipper sleeps is in violation of the rule and an illegal enterprise. Those of you who argue that it only becomes illegal if Ellen has a collision argue falsely. Legal and responsible racing cannot include long-distance solo sailing racing by definition. Neither little Ellen nor anybody else is capable of sight or hearing while they are asleep, exhausted below in a speeding sailboat. Ellen is a whore because she gets paid and has a whole team pimping her engaging in an illegal activity. It's about time real sailors stopped supporting this illegal activity which is detrimental and dangerous to sailors everywhere. I certainly will not identify with, worship or give kudos to any law breaker. Until such time as little Ellen operates legally, I will continue to call a spade a spade. The only record she has broken, in my opinion, is 71 days in violation of Rule 5. It does not matter how much or what kind of electronic measures her boat employs. Unless she stays awake and maintains a look-out by sight and hearing twenty-four hours a day, she is operating illegally. Ellen is a lawbreaker by law and by her own admission. Those who support little Ellen support law breaking. You cannot argue otherwise intelligently. Every argument you attempt to employ will be shot down by the simplicity and explicitness of Rule 5. Captain Neal Warren USCG Licensed U.S. Merchant Marine Officer ser.# 1045941 --- Safety at sea is no accident. You are an idiot & pretty typical of the nay sayers who have & will never amount to anything. Merchant Marine Officer??? a hoot; sad, jealous, little uneducated coward more likely:-) With your limited IQ you "need" rules to mindlessly obey for every minute of your endless boring days, so you can feel safe & we can from you. After all your misfortune is always "someone elses fault". K Speaking of idiots:-) & the Krause lie of the day is........ from what we call the "father" series, this is a sad collection of lies about the mythical father, much the same as immature school kids make up. The sad part is that a man in his 50s would be so ashamed of his father's real achievements that he besmirches his memory with such infantile lies. My father, who died in the 1970s, was a fairly well known boating sportsman in the New England-New York area. He was a boat dealer and marina operator. For grins, he raced hydroplanes and utility outboards in the late 40's and early 50's, and won the Albany to New York race twice and a number of other races. For many years, he always had the *fastest* boat on Long Island Sound. I don't know whether that was true, but I don't recall anyone with a faster boat, and he drove all over looking for them. The boat, which changed from year to year, was always called "Bob's Hope." Later, he drove a twin 50-hp Evinrude powered Swedish boat across the North Atlantic in winter as a publicity stunt for a line of Swedish boats he was distributing in New England. Came over the lee of a tanker. He owned a *lot* of boats, including a PT boat for a while and a DUCK. I don't know that I have more experience with boats than anyone in here. I've been boating since I was about 7 or so, and that was 50 years ago. I've owned a *lot* of different kinds of boats. What *you* believe is your business. Frankly, I don't give a damn. Also of course, note the "in winter":-) My father and his chief mechanic once crossed the Atlantic in winter in a 22' boat powered by twin outboards. Yes, it is possible, even the fuel. Got a "fireboat" welcome in NYC. |
wrote:
I guess for some, ignorance is bliss, even if they have to work very hard at it. Trust, but verify. |
Graham Frankland wrote:
Try being on the bridge of a sub whilst submerged. I think the rule says something about all possible means. I presume subs have their methods to keep watch otherwise they'd keep bumping into things. |
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