Tink says:
==============
FOCUS! He only said that some have died while waiting for a Medical
Test or Procedure.
==============

Tink, thanks for what you've done here; you've provided a conciliatory
tone. Look, I don't know KMAN, but from his posts, I can well imagine
where he was coming from (insofar as I felt the same way but was
disinclined to carry on a discussion with one as one-tracked as rick).
Over here, in the Great White North, inundated as we are with American
media, we constantly hear the ignorant bleatings of the American
right-wing. And this nonsense about people "dying while on a waiting
list" is one of those bits of nonsense.

So let's step back a bit. Do people die on waiting lists? Of course
they do. We're talking about illnesses and medicine. How could people
NOT die on waiting lists. And that applies to waiting lists in Canada,
Sweden, Germany, and the United States. People die on waiting lists
PERIOD. OK, we've gotten that out of the way.

I'll not speak for KMAN, but from where I'm looking at the discussion,
I suspect KMAN is smart enough to realise this as well. I react (I
suppose KMAN does) to the nonsense we hear from south of the 49th -- it
is exactly as the one article you recommended says; exceedingly long
waiting lists are very rare and talk about them is just media hype.

For us (and for citizens of all nations) the public debate about
medicine is part economic, part ethical, and part philosophical. As you
pointed out, after doing extensive reading about our system, you've
learned that our system is quite good at early intervention (nobody has
to ask whether or not they can afford it), it is good at providing for
the poor and the indigent. And, as you so eloquently put it, good at
raising the general level of health care in the populace. On principle,
we believe that need, not money, should determine where you are in the
waiting list.

As with most systems, there is an economic component. Emphasis on one
element of healthcare generally means that another aspect gets fewer
resources. So, given the emphasis and benefits listed above, there are
likely to be waiting lists in some other parts of the system. The
question that we, as a society, have to answer is, "Are we willing to
tolerate a 3 month waiting time for joint replacement surgery if it
means that we'll have generally higher health standards or greater
accessability for the entire populace?" We've answered "Yes". Americans
continue to answer "No".

To sum up: I think KMAN's responses are less "jingoistic chest
thumping" as rick likes to call it, and more frustrated responses to
right-wing nonsense fed by a media machine.

Tink, I hope you brought this ping-ponging to and end. Thanks.

frtzw906