KMAN wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
ups.com...

KMAN wrote:
...snipsss...

My apologies for being unclear Tinkerntom.

Can I please try again?

Has rick PROVEN to you that Canadians are dying waiting for health
care?

If you will excuse and accept the following babble?

I deleted it.

Has he proven it?

Yes, he provided evidence, and there was other evidence available!

For example, did a coroner's inquiry say "Person X died while waiting
for
health care, and if the health care system had not responded so
slowly,
she'd still be alive?"

Yes, read about Diane Gorsuch below!

That fact that a person was on a waiting list for something and died
doesn't
mean that caused the death.

He never claimed that! If so show me Date and Time of rick's post! I am
to tired to search any longer myself, having read and reread probably
100 less than inspiring epistles by you two.

Has rick PROVEN to you that Canadians are dying waiting for health
care?

Yes, ask and answered previously and below!

Please note (in case not obvious) this means that it was the waiting
that
caused them to die.

Now you are changing the question, rick never claimed this. He claimed
that people died while their name was on a waiting list, waiting for a
test or procedure that could have saved their life. They still might
have lost their life, even if they had the procedure, because these
were seriously ill individuals with life threatening illness, usually
cardiac or ontology, but that is a different issue entirely!

Before your deleted it, did you read it?

Your promise was posted as follows;

Feb 22, 7:03 am

"Please provide a link to the message in which you posted a Canadian
reference (or any reference) that proves Canadians have died in wait
lines for health care, and I will make a formal and public apology."


Feb 22, 2:02 pm

"Please provide a link to the message in which you posted a Canadian
reference (or any reference) that proves Canadians have died in wait
lines for health care, and I will make a formal and public apology."

1)
http://www.cp.org/english/online/ful...D052306AU.html

2)
http://canada.medbroadcast.com/healt...&news_ id=755

3)
http://www.manpc.mb.ca/03042003.htm

4)
http://chealth.canoe.ca/health_news_...1&news_id=8195


The case of Diane Gorsuch a Canadian, provided an example of a person
dying while on a wait list, waiting for a life saving operation that
could have saved her life if administered in a timely fashion, but
after two years of waiting, she died. Evidently the life saving
operation was cancelled and rescheduled a number of times. Her death
would have been handled by a coroner, and in addition to her death, two
other deaths were accounted for at the same time that was the result of
being on a wait list for and untimely period. These cases resulted in
much public and media outcry, and the eventual revamping of the Ontario
Medical system, and in particular the management of those on wait
lists.

5)
In addition, 11 people died according to the following link!

http://www.manpc.mb.ca/02092004.htm

The review of the cardiac care program, done by Edmonton heart surgeon
Dr. Arvind Koshal was prompted after 11 people died while waiting for
cardiac surgery in the province

6)
In addition, 50 people died according to the following link out of 8000
in the study group. This report is much more statistical for those so
inclined (frtwz).

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/167/11/1233

The risks of waiting for cardiac catheterization: a prospective study

In this prospective registry of over 8000 patients referred for cardiac
catheterization in 1998-2000 in the Central-South Region of Ontario,
the median waiting time was 6 days for inpatients and 60 days for
outpatients. Only 37% of patients received the procedure within the
time requested by the referring physician. The overall incidence of
major cardiac events was 1.4%, with 50 deaths during a median wait of
27 days.

In a retrospective study of 871 patients in Manitoba referred for
cardiac catheterization in 1981-1982, the incidence rates of cardiac
arrest, acute MI, death and emergency admission during a mean waiting
time of 4.2 weeks were 0.5%, 0.9%, 0.4%, and 3.7% respectively

KMAN, I never saw a post by rick saying that people are dying because
the wait list/line some how rises up and kills them, or bores them to
death, or however else a person would become a mortality statistic
because their name is on the wait list/line which caused the death. I
have seen where rick said that people in Canada have died while their
name is on the wait list for a particular test or procedure. The key
words being "because, and while." You only in this prior post have
expanded your question to include the "because" part of the statement,
unless you can show me date and time of a previous post by you where
you clearly use the word because, in the context of your claim that
people are not dying because their name is on a wait list/line!

In your request to me previously when you ask me to vote, you also
requested me to certify whether rick had, or had not supported his
claim that people were dying while on the wait list/lines. I have
provided the above links, and the links I posted previously. Unless you
were playing sematical games with list/line and because/while, then I
believe you owe rick a public apology, as well as the rest of us whose
time you have been twiddling with.

If you are unable to suck up and apologize, then you are the one
playing nutty weasel, and I leave you to play in the sandbox with
yourself, unless rick chooses to come torment you longer. In that case,
you deserve everything he dishes out. In addition I would have to
seriously determine to consider your future posts as trash, and not
worth the time to entertain anything you have to say.

He has you in Check, you can't Castle, since you have moved your Rooks,
your out of pawns, Bishops, Knights, Queen, and it is Checkmate time! I
have played enough Chess to know the feeling, but you are better to go
down in dignity, and play again, than to cheat, and noone will play
with you after that! TnT