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#1
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KMAN wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message ups.com... KMAN wrote: ...snipsss... My apologies for being unclear Tinkerntom. Can I please try again? Has rick PROVEN to you that Canadians are dying waiting for health care? If you will excuse and accept the following babble? I deleted it. Has he proven it? Yes, he provided evidence, and there was other evidence available! For example, did a coroner's inquiry say "Person X died while waiting for health care, and if the health care system had not responded so slowly, she'd still be alive?" Yes, read about Diane Gorsuch below! That fact that a person was on a waiting list for something and died doesn't mean that caused the death. He never claimed that! If so show me Date and Time of rick's post! I am to tired to search any longer myself, having read and reread probably 100 less than inspiring epistles by you two. Has rick PROVEN to you that Canadians are dying waiting for health care? Yes, ask and answered previously and below! Please note (in case not obvious) this means that it was the waiting that caused them to die. Now you are changing the question, rick never claimed this. He claimed that people died while their name was on a waiting list, waiting for a test or procedure that could have saved their life. They still might have lost their life, even if they had the procedure, because these were seriously ill individuals with life threatening illness, usually cardiac or ontology, but that is a different issue entirely! Before your deleted it, did you read it? Your promise was posted as follows; Feb 22, 7:03 am "Please provide a link to the message in which you posted a Canadian reference (or any reference) that proves Canadians have died in wait lines for health care, and I will make a formal and public apology." Feb 22, 2:02 pm "Please provide a link to the message in which you posted a Canadian reference (or any reference) that proves Canadians have died in wait lines for health care, and I will make a formal and public apology." 1) http://www.cp.org/english/online/ful...D052306AU.html 2) http://canada.medbroadcast.com/healt...&news_ id=755 3) http://www.manpc.mb.ca/03042003.htm 4) http://chealth.canoe.ca/health_news_...1&news_id=8195 The case of Diane Gorsuch a Canadian, provided an example of a person dying while on a wait list, waiting for a life saving operation that could have saved her life if administered in a timely fashion, but after two years of waiting, she died. Evidently the life saving operation was cancelled and rescheduled a number of times. Her death would have been handled by a coroner, and in addition to her death, two other deaths were accounted for at the same time that was the result of being on a wait list for and untimely period. These cases resulted in much public and media outcry, and the eventual revamping of the Ontario Medical system, and in particular the management of those on wait lists. 5) In addition, 11 people died according to the following link! http://www.manpc.mb.ca/02092004.htm The review of the cardiac care program, done by Edmonton heart surgeon Dr. Arvind Koshal was prompted after 11 people died while waiting for cardiac surgery in the province 6) In addition, 50 people died according to the following link out of 8000 in the study group. This report is much more statistical for those so inclined (frtwz). http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/167/11/1233 The risks of waiting for cardiac catheterization: a prospective study In this prospective registry of over 8000 patients referred for cardiac catheterization in 1998-2000 in the Central-South Region of Ontario, the median waiting time was 6 days for inpatients and 60 days for outpatients. Only 37% of patients received the procedure within the time requested by the referring physician. The overall incidence of major cardiac events was 1.4%, with 50 deaths during a median wait of 27 days. In a retrospective study of 871 patients in Manitoba referred for cardiac catheterization in 1981-1982, the incidence rates of cardiac arrest, acute MI, death and emergency admission during a mean waiting time of 4.2 weeks were 0.5%, 0.9%, 0.4%, and 3.7% respectively KMAN, I never saw a post by rick saying that people are dying because the wait list/line some how rises up and kills them, or bores them to death, or however else a person would become a mortality statistic because their name is on the wait list/line which caused the death. I have seen where rick said that people in Canada have died while their name is on the wait list for a particular test or procedure. The key words being "because, and while." You only in this prior post have expanded your question to include the "because" part of the statement, unless you can show me date and time of a previous post by you where you clearly use the word because, in the context of your claim that people are not dying because their name is on a wait list/line! In your request to me previously when you ask me to vote, you also requested me to certify whether rick had, or had not supported his claim that people were dying while on the wait list/lines. I have provided the above links, and the links I posted previously. Unless you were playing sematical games with list/line and because/while, then I believe you owe rick a public apology, as well as the rest of us whose time you have been twiddling with. If you are unable to suck up and apologize, then you are the one playing nutty weasel, and I leave you to play in the sandbox with yourself, unless rick chooses to come torment you longer. In that case, you deserve everything he dishes out. In addition I would have to seriously determine to consider your future posts as trash, and not worth the time to entertain anything you have to say. He has you in Check, you can't Castle, since you have moved your Rooks, your out of pawns, Bishops, Knights, Queen, and it is Checkmate time! I have played enough Chess to know the feeling, but you are better to go down in dignity, and play again, than to cheat, and noone will play with you after that! TnT |
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#3
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KMAN says:
=================== Sadly, the intended purpose of asking such a question - to combat bizarre mythology being propogated about Canadian health care and to try to bring some focus to wild unsubstiated generalizations - has been even more widly derailed by rick's deceptive tactics that have focused mainly on ad hominem attacks and unreferenced accusations. ================= Absolutely correct on all counts KMAN. frtzw906 |
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#4
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in article , BCITORGB
at wrote on 3/2/05 12:44 AM: KMAN says: =================== Sadly, the intended purpose of asking such a question - to combat bizarre mythology being propogated about Canadian health care and to try to bring some focus to wild unsubstiated generalizations - has been even more widly derailed by rick's deceptive tactics that have focused mainly on ad hominem attacks and unreferenced accusations. ================= Absolutely correct on all counts KMAN. frtzw906 Yeah, but shame on me for playing his game. Although, I have to say (and this feels weird) since drawing Tinkerntom into the fray, the discussion has started to get more interesting and perhaps even useful. Geezus, how many Americans do you think know a damned thing about Canadian health care. Hell, Tinkerntom even knows the names of some of our political parties now! |
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#5
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"KMAN" wrote in message ... in article , BCITORGB at wrote on 3/2/05 12:44 AM: KMAN says: =================== Sadly, the intended purpose of asking such a question - to combat bizarre mythology being propogated about Canadian health care and to try to bring some focus to wild unsubstiated generalizations - has been even more widly derailed by rick's deceptive tactics that have focused mainly on ad hominem attacks and unreferenced accusations. ================= Absolutely correct on all counts KMAN. frtzw906 Yeah, but shame on me for playing his game. Although, I have to say (and this feels weird) since drawing Tinkerntom into the fray, the discussion has started to get more interesting and perhaps even useful. Geezus, how many Americans do you think know a damned thing about Canadian health care. Hell, Tinkerntom even knows the names of some of our political parties now! ====================== Apparently many know far more than you do, liarman. |
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#6
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rick, nobody gives a ****!
frtzw906 |
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#7
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"BCITORGB" wrote in message oups.com... rick, nobody gives a ****! =================== Yes, it's very apparent that you and liarman don't care that people are dying while waiting for treatment in Canada. frtzw906 |
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#8
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BCITORGB wrote:
rick, nobody gives a ****! Amen! (To stay in the general direction that some of this thread has been steered ;-) ) -- Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://wilko.webzone.ru/ |
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#9
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"BCITORGB" wrote in message oups.com... KMAN says: =================== Sadly, the intended purpose of asking such a question - to combat bizarre mythology being propogated about Canadian health care and to try to bring some focus to wild unsubstiated generalizations - has been even more widly derailed by rick's deceptive tactics that have focused mainly on ad hominem attacks and unreferenced accusations. ================= Absolutely correct on all counts KMAN. ========================== I see you too are willfully ignorant, eh? Did you quit reading the sites that were posted when they started proving yours and liarmans jingoistic chest-thumping was nothing but lies? frtzw906 |
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#10
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On 1-Mar-2005, KMAN wrote:
How has he PROVEN it. Anyone can "provide evidence" that is not the same as proving something, Tinkerntom. But dying while waiting and dying because of waiting are two different things. I haven't looked at all his most recent posts, but some of the numbers posted did not specify that the deaths were because they were waiting. Mike |
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