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That's what I told my boss. He was not amused.
Ken "Wolfgang" wrote in message ... "No Spam" wrote in message news:4%3_d.7236$FB6.2452@trndny09... Thanks -I had a bad day and that was a good laugh. You should read more Usenet. :) Wolfgang |
"No Spam" wrote in message news:U44_d.5087$db6.3337@trndny02... That's what I told my boss. He was not amused. He should read more Usenet. Wolfgang |
Wilko wrote: Wolfgang wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... Hey Michael, I have lost track what this particular discussion is regarding, could you restate from your understanding what the various contentions are. Thanks, TnT You're an idiot. No, yor stupid. Well, he says you're a moron. What does he know....he's a fool. Well, he ain't as dum as you. So's yer mother. Bite me. Eat me. Sez you. You don't know what I said. You don't know what you said. Answer my question. What question? What are you talking about. You're and idiot Blah...... Blah...... Wolfgang no charge for this one. Wolfgang, that's basically this whole thread in one post... Thanks! ;-) -- Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://wilko.webzone.ru/ Wilko, I was recently googling, and came across the name Scott B. who apparently had quite an impact on you and some of the oldtimers here on RBP. I would wonder if you could, for the benefit of us newbies, ever feel free to share how that situation could affect your outlook of paddling now. Some of the other oldtimers could probably pitch in if you started a new topic. I really find the stories insightful about how you all got to where we are now. I was also amazed at all the names that I never hear now. I wonder if they are still out there lurking, and would possibly chime in. For once, I would be glad to set back and listen, I get sort of tired of the threads that break down into nit-picking as highlighted by Wolfgang! TnT |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... ...I get sort of tired of the threads that break down into nit-picking as highlighted by Wolfgang! 9.......1........1 ring........ ring........ Yeah? Um........is this 911? Yeah. So? Um.......well.......uh.......there's this guy who's sort of tired of threads that break down into nit-picking......um......and stuff. And? And......um.......can't somebody do something about it? Like what? Well.......I don't know. Aren't you guys the experts? Thass right sonny.........you wanna tell us how to do our jobs? Um.......well......no, I guess not. But......this guy..... What guy? I don't know.......I just heard screams. Screams? Yeah. How do you know they were screams? Huh? Are you some kinda scream expert? Well......no. Look, kid, we got a lot of stuff goin' on here.......we're what you call "BUSY".....capich? Huh? Who is this guy? I don't know......just some guy. Is somebody holding a gun to his head? Um......I don't know.......he sai Look, kid, call somebody who cares, o.k.? Uh.....yeah.......o.k........thanks......bye. Wolfgang who, if he had written any of this, would have written every word of it under duress. :( |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... ...I get sort of tired of the threads that break down into nit-picking as highlighted by Wolfgang! If I were you, and thankfully god knows I'm not, I'd have god smite Wolfgang. Sorry Mr. gang, but you really have been askin' for it! Who loves ya? Mark loves ya, that's who. Mark --the devil made me do it-- |
bearsbuddy wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... ...I get sort of tired of the threads that break down into nit-picking as highlighted by Wolfgang! If I were you, and thankfully god knows I'm not, I'd have god smite Wolfgang. Sorry Mr. gang, but you really have been askin' for it! Who loves ya? Mark loves ya, that's who. Mark --the devil made me do it-- Oh, I expect that even God got a good laugh from that one by Wolfgang! Tnt |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... bearsbuddy wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... ...I get sort of tired of the threads that break down into nit-picking as highlighted by Wolfgang! If I were you, and thankfully god knows I'm not, I'd have god smite Wolfgang. Sorry Mr. gang, but you really have been askin' for it! Who loves ya? Mark loves ya, that's who. Mark --the devil made me do it-- Oh, I expect that even God got a good laugh from that one by Wolfgang! To be sure. But then, God......and Mark......know WHY it's funny. Wolfgang |
Wolfgang wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... bearsbuddy wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... ...I get sort of tired of the threads that break down into nit-picking as highlighted by Wolfgang! If I were you, and thankfully god knows I'm not, I'd have god smite Wolfgang. Sorry Mr. gang, but you really have been askin' for it! Who loves ya? Mark loves ya, that's who. Mark --the devil made me do it-- Oh, I expect that even God got a good laugh from that one by Wolfgang! To be sure. But then, God......and Mark......know WHY it's funny. Wolfgang Wolfgang, It's good to know that you not only believe in God, but know God so well that you know what and why He thinks something is funny! You need to let Mark know that you believe in God, and let him know how much God loves you both, and showed you His Love in sending Jesus to die for you! That the Blood of Jesus will cleanse you of all your sins, and set you free from Satan, death, and the grave. Then you both will have something to really rejoice in! TnT |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... Wolfgang, It's good to know that you not only believe in God, but know God so well that you know what and why He thinks something is funny! You need to let Mark know that you believe in God, and let him know how much God loves you both, and showed you His Love in sending Jesus to die for you! That the Blood of Jesus will cleanse you of all your sins, and set you free from Satan, death, and the grave. Then you both will have something to really rejoice in! TnT Well, it is good to know something, anyway. When we know that you know something this will be good for us and good for you. When you go to meet Jesus, we will all rejoice. Wolfgang hoo boy. |
Wolfgang wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... Wolfgang, It's good to know that you not only believe in God, but know God so well that you know what and why He thinks something is funny! You need to let Mark know that you believe in God, and let him know how much God loves you both, and showed you His Love in sending Jesus to die for you! That the Blood of Jesus will cleanse you of all your sins, and set you free from Satan, death, and the grave. Then you both will have something to really rejoice in! TnT Well, it is good to know something, anyway. When we know that you know something this will be good for us and good for you. When you go to meet Jesus, we will all rejoice. Wolfgang hoo boy. Well it is good to know that you are so understanding and wise. Knowing that I know Jesus, is good for me and for you, and you can rejoice, that I meet with Him all the time. Even as I write these words, I pray Lord, let me say something that will let Wolfgang know that it is not necessary to be so twitty, at least with me. I know that he lives in a world that is eat or be eaten, and he has learned to bite first. Let him know Lord that you will watch over him and protect him if he will allow you too. That I regret if I have hurt him in anyway, or threatened him, that I would ask his forgiveness. You Lord know the depths of his heart, and you know why he responds the way he does, but I know that you Love him with your Eternal Infinite Love. Lord I find in Wolfgang, someone who has a lot of insight, and a quick wit, and yet someone that needs to know your forgiveness as well. I pray that you would open his eyes to see You! Thankyou Jesus, TnT |
"Wolfgang" wrote in message ... "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... Wolfgang, It's good to know that you not only believe in God, but know God so well that you know what and why He thinks something is funny! You need to let Mark know that you believe in God, and let him know how much God loves you both, and showed you His Love in sending Jesus to die for you! That the Blood of Jesus will cleanse you of all your sins, and set you free from Satan, death, and the grave. Then you both will have something to really rejoice in! TnT Well, it is good to know something, anyway. When we know that you know something this will be good for us and good for you. When you go to meet Jesus, we will all rejoice. ======================== Spoken with all the compassion I know you have, eh? You really seem to have a fixation on wishing people dead. Why is that? First, teenagers that don't canoe as much as you think they should, and now Tnt. I'd get that checked out if I were you... Wolfgang hoo boy. |
"rick" wrote in message
link.net... "Wolfgang" wrote in message ... Well, it is good to know something, anyway. When we know that you know something this will be good for us and good for you. When you go to meet Jesus, we will all rejoice. ======================== Spoken with all the compassion I know you have, eh? What you know might be an interesting study for some. I've got other things to think about.......I'm sure you'll understand. You really seem to have a fixation on wishing people dead. Do I? Well, I'll be jiggered. Why is that? Why don't you tell me? I mean, it doesn't seem that way to me. If it seems that way to you, it only makes sense that YOU should tell us all why that is......ainna? First, teenagers that don't canoe as much as you think they should, I don't really think about teenagers much. As a matter of fact, I hardly think about them more than I do about you. Thinking about them now, it occurs to me that I couldn't care less how much time any of them spends in a canoe. For that matter, I can't think of a single reason that the matter of whether or not they spend any time at all in a canoe.....or how much, if they do.....should be of any interest (let alone import) to me. Should it? As for wishing any of them dead........well, I guess maybe I've known some that you haven't. and now Tnt. You mean.....um.....Tom, I think it is......the person who signs him or her self as TnT? I'm no Christian, but if I read Christian doctrine right (and I've done a bit of reading about such things) meeting Jesus at the last trump (whether it be the big one or simply the common personal.....um.....transition) is a joy eagerly awaited and fervently hoped for. Who am I to hope for anyone else's rapture to be unnecessarily delayed? I'd get that checked out if I were you... Well, you're not. Wolfgang and you can't be........deal with it. |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... Wolfgang wrote: Well, it is good to know something, anyway. When we know that you know something this will be good for us and good for you. When you go to meet Jesus, we will all rejoice. Wolfgang hoo boy. Well it is good to know that you are so understanding and wise. Don't get used to it. I can get kinda testy sometimes. Knowing that I know Jesus, is good for me and for you, and you can rejoice, that I meet with Him all the time. Thanks, but I've got a limited capacity for joy. I think I'll pass. Even as I write these words, I pray Lord, let me say something that will let Wolfgang know that it is not necessary to be so twitty, at least with me. I know that he lives in a world that is eat or be eaten, and he has learned to bite first. Let him know Lord that you will watch over him and protect him if he will allow you too. That I regret if I have hurt him in anyway, or threatened him, that I would ask his forgiveness. You Lord know the depths of his heart, and you know why he responds the way he does, but I know that you Love him with your Eternal Infinite Love. Lord I find in Wolfgang, someone who has a lot of insight, and a quick wit, and yet someone that needs to know your forgiveness as well. I pray that you would open his eyes to see You! Thankyou Jesus, TnT Amen. Wolfgang oh, and lord?......my world ain't nearly as harsh as tommy thinks it is......i'm doing fine........don't you worry yourself over it......o.k.? :) |
"Wolfgang" wrote in message ... "rick" wrote in message link.net... "Wolfgang" wrote in message ... Well, it is good to know something, anyway. When we know that you know something this will be good for us and good for you. When you go to meet Jesus, we will all rejoice. ======================== Spoken with all the compassion I know you have, eh? What you know might be an interesting study for some. I've got other things to think about.......I'm sure you'll understand. You really seem to have a fixation on wishing people dead. Do I? Well, I'll be jiggered. =============== You're the one that keeps talking about it, must be you... Why is that? Why don't you tell me? I mean, it doesn't seem that way to me. If it seems that way to you, it only makes sense that YOU should tell us all why that is......ainna? ================== LOL You'e the one talking about others being dead, and either they would be better off, as in the case of the teens that drowned, or it you make you happy enough to rejoice. Sick there wolfie, sick... First, teenagers that don't canoe as much as you think they should, I don't really think about teenagers much. As a matter of fact, I hardly think about them more than I do about you. Thinking about them now, it occurs to me that I couldn't care less how much time any of them spends in a canoe. For that matter, I can't think of a single reason that the matter of whether or not they spend any time at all in a canoe.....or how much, if they do.....should be of any interest (let alone import) to me. Should it? As for wishing any of them dead........well, I guess maybe I've known some that you haven't. and now Tnt. You mean.....um.....Tom, I think it is......the person who signs him or her self as TnT? I'm no Christian, but if I read Christian doctrine right (and I've done a bit of reading about such things) meeting Jesus at the last trump (whether it be the big one or simply the common personal.....um.....transition) is a joy eagerly awaited and fervently hoped for. Who am I to hope for anyone else's rapture to be unnecessarily delayed? I'd get that checked out if I were you... Well, you're not. ============= Yes, thankfully. You have too many issues to deaL WITH. Wolfgang and you can't be........deal with it. |
"rick" wrote in message link.net... "Wolfgang" wrote in message ... "rick" wrote in message link.net... "Wolfgang" wrote in message ... Well, it is good to know something, anyway. When we know that you know something this will be good for us and good for you. When you go to meet Jesus, we will all rejoice. ======================== Spoken with all the compassion I know you have, eh? What you know might be an interesting study for some. I've got other things to think about.......I'm sure you'll understand. You really seem to have a fixation on wishing people dead. Do I? Well, I'll be jiggered. =============== You're the one that keeps talking about it, must be you... Why is that? Why don't you tell me? I mean, it doesn't seem that way to me. If it seems that way to you, it only makes sense that YOU should tell us all why that is......ainna? ================== LOL You'e the one talking about others being dead, and either they would be better off, as in the case of the teens that drowned, or it you make you happy enough to rejoice. Sick there wolfie, sick... First, teenagers that don't canoe as much as you think they should, I don't really think about teenagers much. As a matter of fact, I hardly think about them more than I do about you. Thinking about them now, it occurs to me that I couldn't care less how much time any of them spends in a canoe. For that matter, I can't think of a single reason that the matter of whether or not they spend any time at all in a canoe.....or how much, if they do.....should be of any interest (let alone import) to me. Should it? As for wishing any of them dead........well, I guess maybe I've known some that you haven't. and now Tnt. You mean.....um.....Tom, I think it is......the person who signs him or her self as TnT? I'm no Christian, but if I read Christian doctrine right (and I've done a bit of reading about such things) meeting Jesus at the last trump (whether it be the big one or simply the common personal.....um.....transition) is a joy eagerly awaited and fervently hoped for. Who am I to hope for anyone else's rapture to be unnecessarily delayed? I'd get that checked out if I were you... Well, you're not. ============= Yes, thankfully. You have too many issues to deaL WITH. Um.......no offense, Ricky, but you really are too dumb to play with. I think I'll wait for Tommy. Ta ta! :) Wolfgang |
"Wolfgang" wrote in message ... "rick" wrote in message link.net... "Wolfgang" wrote in message ... "rick" wrote in message link.net... "Wolfgang" wrote in message ... Well, it is good to know something, anyway. When we know that you know something this will be good for us and good for you. When you go to meet Jesus, we will all rejoice. ======================== Spoken with all the compassion I know you have, eh? What you know might be an interesting study for some. I've got other things to think about.......I'm sure you'll understand. You really seem to have a fixation on wishing people dead. Do I? Well, I'll be jiggered. =============== You're the one that keeps talking about it, must be you... Why is that? Why don't you tell me? I mean, it doesn't seem that way to me. If it seems that way to you, it only makes sense that YOU should tell us all why that is......ainna? ================== LOL You'e the one talking about others being dead, and either they would be better off, as in the case of the teens that drowned, or it you make you happy enough to rejoice. Sick there wolfie, sick... First, teenagers that don't canoe as much as you think they should, I don't really think about teenagers much. As a matter of fact, I hardly think about them more than I do about you. Thinking about them now, it occurs to me that I couldn't care less how much time any of them spends in a canoe. For that matter, I can't think of a single reason that the matter of whether or not they spend any time at all in a canoe.....or how much, if they do.....should be of any interest (let alone import) to me. Should it? As for wishing any of them dead........well, I guess maybe I've known some that you haven't. and now Tnt. You mean.....um.....Tom, I think it is......the person who signs him or her self as TnT? I'm no Christian, but if I read Christian doctrine right (and I've done a bit of reading about such things) meeting Jesus at the last trump (whether it be the big one or simply the common personal.....um.....transition) is a joy eagerly awaited and fervently hoped for. Who am I to hope for anyone else's rapture to be unnecessarily delayed? I'd get that checked out if I were you... Well, you're not. ============= Yes, thankfully. You have too many issues to deaL WITH. Um.......no offense, Ricky, but you really are too dumb to play with. I think I'll wait for Tommy. Ta ta! :) ============= LOL Run away little one.... Wolfgang |
Wolfgang wrote: "rick" wrote in message link.net... "Wolfgang" wrote in message ... "rick" wrote in message link.net... "Wolfgang" wrote in message ... Well, it is good to know something, anyway. When we know that you know something this will be good for us and good for you. When you go to meet Jesus, we will all rejoice. ======================== Spoken with all the compassion I know you have, eh? What you know might be an interesting study for some. I've got other things to think about.......I'm sure you'll understand. You really seem to have a fixation on wishing people dead. Do I? Well, I'll be jiggered. =============== You're the one that keeps talking about it, must be you... Why is that? Why don't you tell me? I mean, it doesn't seem that way to me. If it seems that way to you, it only makes sense that YOU should tell us all why that is......ainna? ================== LOL You'e the one talking about others being dead, and either they would be better off, as in the case of the teens that drowned, or it you make you happy enough to rejoice. Sick there wolfie, sick... First, teenagers that don't canoe as much as you think they should, I don't really think about teenagers much. As a matter of fact, I hardly think about them more than I do about you. Thinking about them now, it occurs to me that I couldn't care less how much time any of them spends in a canoe. For that matter, I can't think of a single reason that the matter of whether or not they spend any time at all in a canoe.....or how much, if they do.....should be of any interest (let alone import) to me. Should it? As for wishing any of them dead........well, I guess maybe I've known some that you haven't. and now Tnt. You mean.....um.....Tom, I think it is......the person who signs him or her self as TnT? I'm no Christian, but if I read Christian doctrine right (and I've done a bit of reading about such things) meeting Jesus at the last trump (whether it be the big one or simply the common personal.....um.....transition) is a joy eagerly awaited and fervently hoped for. Who am I to hope for anyone else's rapture to be unnecessarily delayed? I'd get that checked out if I were you... Well, you're not. ============= Yes, thankfully. You have too many issues to deaL WITH. Um.......no offense, Ricky, but you really are too dumb to play with. I think I'll wait for Tommy. Ta ta! :) Wolfgang Hey Woolfie, when you were a child, were you not taught to share your toys? Did you have something in particular you wanted to play? Tommy |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message ps.com... Hey Woolfie, when you were a child, were you not taught to share your toys? We didn't have toys.......well, maybe a little hand-me-down dirt once in a while. Did you have something in particular you wanted to play? Um.......yeah......let's play Usenet. All we gotta do is get a few dozen nitwits together on a newsgroup and have them pretend they've got something to say. Wolfgang and, yes, it IS fun! :) |
Wolfgang wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message ps.com... Hey Woolfie, when you were a child, were you not taught to share your toys? We didn't have toys.......well, maybe a little hand-me-down dirt once in a while. Did you have something in particular you wanted to play? Um.......yeah......let's play Usenet. All we gotta do is get a few dozen nitwits together on a newsgroup and have them pretend they've got something to say. Wolfgang and, yes, it IS fun! :) Yes it is, sort of like playing on the big waves you mentioned before, and then there is always the carnage! And sometimes the best fun is just watching! TnT |
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... Wolfgang, It's good to know that you not only believe in God, but know God so well that you know what and why He thinks something is funny! You need to let Mark know that you believe in God, and let him know how much God loves you both, and showed you His Love in sending Jesus to die for you! That the Blood of Jesus will cleanse you of all your sins, and set you free from Satan, death, and the grave. Then you both will have something to really rejoice in! TnT And you need to know that Satan is waitin' for r.b.p.'s only SinisterMinister. Satan loves ya Tommy, you know that, right. I pray to Satan, for you, each and every night. Satan has told me that you are on his short list, just behind George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, so you're in good company. Love and Kisses from the Dark Lord, Mark |
Mark H. Bowen wrote: "Tinkerntom" wrote in message oups.com... Wolfgang, It's good to know that you not only believe in God, but know God so well that you know what and why He thinks something is funny! You need to let Mark know that you believe in God, and let him know how much God loves you both, and showed you His Love in sending Jesus to die for you! That the Blood of Jesus will cleanse you of all your sins, and set you free from Satan, death, and the grave. Then you both will have something to really rejoice in! TnT And you need to know that Satan is waitin' for r.b.p.'s only SinisterMinister. Satan loves ya Tommy, you know that, right. I pray to Satan, for you, each and every night. Satan has told me that you are on his short list, just behind George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, so you're in good company. Love and Kisses from the Dark Lord, Mark Mark, I found a link you should find interesting! http://tinyurl.com/5amyy God loves you, and sets the captive free, by the Blood of the Lamb, and the testimony of God's Faithfulness. TnT |
Tink, I really don't want to get into this with you. Your input on
transporting a kayak, building a rack etc indicates that you are, on these matters, anything but hebetudinous. On the topic of religion, however, all bets are off. So, keeping in mind that I don't want to get into this with you, I ask you to read this link you recommended and tell me if there aren't at least a half dozen points made therein that are positively spooky. Case in point: "It doesn't matter how old you are or how many bad things that you have done in your life including lying and stealing all the way up to murder." Now that's just plain WRONG. Not wrong because forgiveness is wrong, but wrong because IMHO, it gives licence to all sorts of kooks to do all sorts of nasty deeds (I bring up, one more time, nutbars flying planes into office buildings -- these guys had their own version of JC). "What the hell, I'll do whatever I want, then spout off some mumbo-jumbo and all is OK again." WRONG! OK, Tink, I really don't want to get into this with you. Let's get back to building my roofrack. Cheers, frtzw906 |
BCITORGB wrote: Tink, I really don't want to get into this with you. Your input on transporting a kayak, building a rack etc indicates that you are, on these matters, anything but hebetudinous. On the topic of religion, however, all bets are off. So, keeping in mind that I don't want to get into this with you, I ask you to read this link you recommended and tell me if there aren't at least a half dozen points made therein that are positively spooky. Case in point: "It doesn't matter how old you are or how many bad things that you have done in your life including lying and stealing all the way up to murder." Now that's just plain WRONG. Not wrong because forgiveness is wrong, but wrong because IMHO, it gives licence to all sorts of kooks to do all sorts of nasty deeds (I bring up, one more time, nutbars flying planes into office buildings -- these guys had their own version of JC). "What the hell, I'll do whatever I want, then spout off some mumbo-jumbo and all is OK again." WRONG! OK, Tink, I really don't want to get into this with you. Let's get back to building my roofrack. Cheers, frtzw906 Frtzw, I did not expect to see you pick up this link that was meant for Mark! I found the competition by Ron, in this NG, interesting. It seems that there is an invasion from ROFF going on with a bunch of new faces showing up on the RPG. Since Ron usually is posting at least over there, I wanted Mark to feel at home. I just wanted to acommodate them both actually. I, in my exploring did not find that Ron was ever interested in fly- fishing, though I will say on Marks part I did see that he did fly-fish as well as troll. On a fishing forum you would think that it is alright to troll. Trolling requires a boat, so I suppose that trolling on a boating forum should be OK as well. But then Ron is a Fisher of Men, so maybe he does qualify on the fishing forum as well. And Peter fished from a boat, so Ron may also qualify for the boating forum. So I stand corrected, both qualify here and abroad. Though what both appear to be selling is not what I am interested in either, so I basically have ignored them both. So we can still look forward to our little chats, about boats and faith. I prefer the personal approach, to enjoying life. A website just seems a little cold and impersonal. That is sort of like fixing something with a ten pound sledge, that needed a more delicate touch! I hope some of you can appreciate my more delicate touch, I only use a five pound sledge! TnT |
Tink opines:
============= So we can still look forward to our little chats, about boats and faith. I prefer the personal approach, to enjoying life. A website just seems a little cold and impersonal. That is sort of like fixing something with a ten pound sledge, that needed a more delicate touch! I hope some of you can appreciate my more delicate touch, I only use a five pound sledge! ============= I'm confused. What are you trying to say? frtzw906 |
BCITORGB wrote: Tink opines: ============= So we can still look forward to our little chats, about boats and faith. I prefer the personal approach, to enjoying life. A website just seems a little cold and impersonal. That is sort of like fixing something with a ten pound sledge, that needed a more delicate touch! I hope some of you can appreciate my more delicate touch, I only use a five pound sledge! ============= I'm confused. What are you trying to say? frtzw906 It's like this, I appreciate our conversations. The stimulation is good, and it forces me to consider some issues and how my faith applies to them in the market place of life. Not that you necessarily get me to change my mind, or vice versus. But I have to freshen up my faith and the expression of it. I hope that it has been stimulating to you as well. Rest assured that this is one of the main differences I feel between what I am saying, and what is usually passed off as religion (visa-vis Ron's approach), and which I believe KMAN and others have such a viseral reaction too. I am not looking for converts! Let me say that again, I am not looking for converts!!!! or to get you to join a church, or give money anywhere to anything or anybody. I could care less if you ever get babtized, or who you hold hands with, and for how long. The scriptures say, some plant, some water, but God gives the increase. This means to me that I can and should talk about my faith and the hope I have, but whether you choose to believe me, or not is between you and God! I do not need you to sign up, show hands, or say anything to me about what your relationship to God is now, or in the future. This takes all the pressure off me to get you to convert, and I can actually accept you as a fellow traveler on the road of life. You like to paddle, I like to paddle. You ride bikes, I ride bikes. I am sure that we could find all sorts of areas of similar likes and dislikes. Some can separate us, some could bring us together, I prefer to find things that we can mutually agree on. I want you to know where I stand on the matter of faith, which I expect you have a pretty good idea, and so now we can go paddle and have a good time. I won't pull any punches if confronted, but I won't use a 10 lb sledge either. The passage that I shared with you, was of the Apostle Paul teaching the Christians in Colossi. Very little of the scriptures is directed at unbelievers. I do not believe the scriptures were given inorder to make believers out of unbelivers. If you don't believe the scriptures are the Word of God, I could try to prove to you with 10,000 scriptures, and it would not make any difference. 99% of Paul's teaching and of the other Apostles' in the scriptures was directed at Christians, telling them to straighten up their act. I have big problems with those who would preach or proselytize using the scriptures to gain converts, so that they can build bigger churches, and buy fancier cars and houses and all the other stuff that some do. Not that I am not suppose to share with you why I believe what I believe, but only when you ask. I am not trying to prove to you anything, or to get you to convert, I just share why I believe what I believe. What you do with it is up to you and God. If you don't do anything with it for what ever your reason are, those are your reason, which are not necessarily any of my business unless you choose to share them with me. That is your choice. And then we can still work on building your rack, and then go paddling, and have a good time! With some pizza and beer afterwards! Though I probably won't hold your hand, or even give you that kiss I've been threatening you with! Now that's putting it delicately! :) TnT |
Tink recommends pizza and beer:
============== What you do with it is up to you and God. If you don't do anything with it for what ever your reason are, those are your reason, which are not necessarily any of my business unless you choose to share them with me. That is your choice. And then we can still work on building your rack, and then go paddling, and have a good time! With some pizza and beer afterwards! =============== I'll drink to that! Cheers! frtzw906 |
BCITORGB wrote: Tink recommends pizza and beer: ============== What you do with it is up to you and God. If you don't do anything with it for what ever your reason are, those are your reason, which are not necessarily any of my business unless you choose to share them with me. That is your choice. And then we can still work on building your rack, and then go paddling, and have a good time! With some pizza and beer afterwards! =============== I'll drink to that! Cheers! frtzw906 Doesn't sound like you are so confused now! Or at least, when you talk about P&B, that makes the confusion not be so important! TnT |
Tink, my confusion was about the "cold, impersonal website" etc etc...
I didn't know where you were coming from.... still don't frtzw906 |
BCITORGB wrote: Tink, my confusion was about the "cold, impersonal website" etc etc... I didn't know where you were coming from.... still don't frtzw906 Did you check out Ron's website? What was your impression? TnT |
KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/19/05 9:22 PM: BCITORGB wrote: Tink opines: ============= So we can still look forward to our little chats, about boats and faith. I prefer the personal approach, to enjoying life. A website just seems a little cold and impersonal. That is sort of like fixing something with a ten pound sledge, that needed a more delicate touch! I hope some of you can appreciate my more delicate touch, I only use a five pound sledge! ============= I'm confused. What are you trying to say? frtzw906 It's like this, I appreciate our conversations. The stimulation is good, and it forces me to consider some issues and how my faith applies to them in the market place of life. Not that you necessarily get me to change my mind, or vice versus. But I have to freshen up my faith and the expression of it. I hope that it has been stimulating to you as well. Rest assured that this is one of the main differences I feel between what I am saying, and what is usually passed off as religion (visa-vis Ron's approach), and which I believe KMAN and others have such a viseral reaction too. First off, it is "visceral." Secondly, my "reaction" to religion is not visceral, but rather based on obvservation and reasoned conclusions about the functioning of religious belief systems and their real world impact on human beings. A very standard dictionary definition of religion is: "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe; a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship." It seems to me that your god blather fits this definition rather perfectly, Tinkerntom. So I'm not sure why you think your religious belief system is somehow disctinct from "what is usually passed off as religion." There you go correcting my spelling again, but you seemed to know what I was writing about. Now whether you agree with me or not, that is another issue. Even your definition of religion, comes from your dictionary, which may be correct, but that is not what I am talking about, and I am sure you haven't the foggiest Idea what I am speaking about. That you keep trying to pound it into the religious mould, demonstrates your complete unawareness of a part of life that for all your observation and reasoned conclusions, you are blind and clueless. Reminds me of a story, a lexiographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develope a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and ask them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say he got four widely different definitions. All I can say to you KMAN, is that I am speaking of something that goes beyond religion. I am not interested in religion per se; belief in, reverence for, personal or institutional system, even if grounded in belief or worship, according to your text book definition. All these thing are things that man is doing, and probably using for his own power/control structure as you so consistantly point out, where he is the big cheese, the top banana, the muckety-muck! That the rest of us get to admire because he is so "spiritual" at least in his own humble opinion. I am not interested in what man is doing, I am interested in finding out what God is doing! Now obviously if you don't believe in God in the first place, then you don't believe He could be doing anything at all. Or if you believe that there is a pan-theon of Gods, then you may be interested in what they are doing, but most likely, they are more concerned with each other than mere mortals. However if there is a God, would it not be beneficial to know what He is up to! If it is possible to know Him, and to see what He is doing, would that change how you look at life, and respond to other people, and to Him. All the philosophical head games, word games, annoyingly cute games, that you play with yourself, and with others, become meaningless, if He is, and we can know He is. Play your games in life, and here on RBP, if you want, but if He is, you are only screwing yourself and depriving yourself of the greatest trip around! I assure you that there is God, He loves you, and He will show Himself to you if you honestly desire to know Him, TnT |
in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 3/20/05 2:54 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/19/05 9:22 PM: BCITORGB wrote: Tink opines: ============= So we can still look forward to our little chats, about boats and faith. I prefer the personal approach, to enjoying life. A website just seems a little cold and impersonal. That is sort of like fixing something with a ten pound sledge, that needed a more delicate touch! I hope some of you can appreciate my more delicate touch, I only use a five pound sledge! ============= I'm confused. What are you trying to say? frtzw906 It's like this, I appreciate our conversations. The stimulation is good, and it forces me to consider some issues and how my faith applies to them in the market place of life. Not that you necessarily get me to change my mind, or vice versus. But I have to freshen up my faith and the expression of it. I hope that it has been stimulating to you as well. Rest assured that this is one of the main differences I feel between what I am saying, and what is usually passed off as religion (visa-vis Ron's approach), and which I believe KMAN and others have such a viseral reaction too. First off, it is "visceral." Secondly, my "reaction" to religion is not visceral, but rather based on obvservation and reasoned conclusions about the functioning of religious belief systems and their real world impact on human beings. A very standard dictionary definition of religion is: "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe; a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship." It seems to me that your god blather fits this definition rather perfectly, Tinkerntom. So I'm not sure why you think your religious belief system is somehow disctinct from "what is usually passed off as religion." There you go correcting my spelling again The important issue was not really the spelling. but you seemed to know what I was writing about. Now whether you agree with me or not, that is another issue. I was disagreeing with you about my having a visceral reaction to religion. Even your definition of religion It's not my definition, it's from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. comes from your dictionary which may be correct, but that is not what I am talking about, and I am sure you haven't the foggiest Idea what I am speaking about. That you keep trying to pound it into the religious mould, demonstrates your complete unawareness of a part of life that for all your observation and reasoned conclusions, you are blind and clueless. yawn The dictionary definition is a reflection of a common understanding of the meaning of the word "religion." You seem to be saying that your particular god blather is not "religion." I am pointing out that it seems to fit pretty well with what most people would describe as a religion. Reminds me of a story, a lexiographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develope a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and ask them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say he got four widely different definitions. Reminds me of a story. A lexographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions not based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develop a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and asked them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say, all four of the blind guys through their life experience developed an understanding of what an elephant is. Being blind but fully intellectually functional, each of them figured out what parts they were touching and although some of what they were touching was a bit shocking, it did nothing to dissuade them from their understanding that an elephant is a really big freaking mammal. So, the lexographer ended up using a definition of "elephant" that was very much like past definitions of "elephant" which was fitting since elephants had really not changed much since the word "elephant" was first associated with the big freaking mammals. All I can say to you KMAN, is that I am speaking of something that goes beyond religion. Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom! I am not interested in religion per se; belief in, reverence for, personal or institutional system, even if grounded in belief or worship, according to your text book definition. All these thing are things that man is doing Right. A man like Tinkerntom. And I think he's about to do it again. Notice how he won't be able to see the hypocrisy in this. and probably using for his own power/control structure as you so consistantly point out, where he is the big cheese, the top banana, the muckety-muck! That the rest of us get to admire because he is so "spiritual" at least in his own humble opinion. I am not interested in what man is doing, I am interested in finding out what God is doing! Now obviously if you don't believe in God in the first place Only because She doesn't exist. then you don't believe He could be doing anything at all. Approaching this issue in the hypothetical, whatever She's doing, being an omnipotent supernatural being and all, it's pretty clear to me that She'd do whatever She wants to do, and ranting about Her on a kayaking newsgroup isn't going to impact on what She does. Since, after all, She is more powerful than Superman or even Oprah. Or if you believe that there is a pan-theon of Gods, then you may be interested in what they are doing, but most likely, they are more concerned with each other than mere mortals. Um. If you say so. However if there is a God, would it not be beneficial to know what He is up to! If it is possible to know Him, and to see what He is doing, would that change how you look at life and respond to other people, and to Him. All the philosophical head games, word games, annoyingly cute games, that you play with yourself, and with others, become meaningless, if He is, and we can know He is. Play your games in life, and here on RBP, if you want, but if He is, you are only screwing yourself and depriving yourself of the greatest trip around! Then again, maybe religion is a barrier to personal growth and fuller enjoyment of life. I assure you that there is God I assure you that there is no god. He loves you So does my cat. Only my cat exists beyond Tinkerntom's imagination. and He will show Himself to you if you honestly desire to know Him, TnT My cat will show Himself to you for similar reasons. Your spiel in this message was 100% stereotypical of the blather of every promoter of every religion. Disappointing, Tinkerntom, disappointing. |
KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/20/05 2:54 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/19/05 9:22 PM: BCITORGB wrote: Tink opines: ============= So we can still look forward to our little chats, about boats and faith. I prefer the personal approach, to enjoying life. A website just seems a little cold and impersonal. That is sort of like fixing something with a ten pound sledge, that needed a more delicate touch! I hope some of you can appreciate my more delicate touch, I only use a five pound sledge! ============= I'm confused. What are you trying to say? frtzw906 It's like this, I appreciate our conversations. The stimulation is good, and it forces me to consider some issues and how my faith applies to them in the market place of life. Not that you necessarily get me to change my mind, or vice versus. But I have to freshen up my faith and the expression of it. I hope that it has been stimulating to you as well. Rest assured that this is one of the main differences I feel between what I am saying, and what is usually passed off as religion (visa-vis Ron's approach), and which I believe KMAN and others have such a viseral reaction too. First off, it is "visceral." Secondly, my "reaction" to religion is not visceral, but rather based on obvservation and reasoned conclusions about the functioning of religious belief systems and their real world impact on human beings. A very standard dictionary definition of religion is: "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe; a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship." It seems to me that your god blather fits this definition rather perfectly, Tinkerntom. So I'm not sure why you think your religious belief system is somehow disctinct from "what is usually passed off as religion." There you go correcting my spelling again The important issue was not really the spelling. but you seemed to know what I was writing about. Now whether you agree with me or not, that is another issue. I was disagreeing with you about my having a visceral reaction to religion. Even your definition of religion It's not my definition, it's from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. comes from your dictionary which may be correct, but that is not what I am talking about, and I am sure you haven't the foggiest Idea what I am speaking about. That you keep trying to pound it into the religious mould, demonstrates your complete unawareness of a part of life that for all your observation and reasoned conclusions, you are blind and clueless. yawn The dictionary definition is a reflection of a common understanding of the meaning of the word "religion." You seem to be saying that your particular god blather is not "religion." I am pointing out that it seems to fit pretty well with what most people would describe as a religion. Reminds me of a story, a lexiographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develope a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and ask them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say he got four widely different definitions. Reminds me of a story. A lexographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions not based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develop a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and asked them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say, all four of the blind guys through their life experience developed an understanding of what an elephant is. Being blind but fully intellectually functional, each of them figured out what parts they were touching and although some of what they were touching was a bit shocking, it did nothing to dissuade them from their understanding that an elephant is a really big freaking mammal. So, the lexographer ended up using a definition of "elephant" that was very much like past definitions of "elephant" which was fitting since elephants had really not changed much since the word "elephant" was first associated with the big freaking mammals. All I can say to you KMAN, is that I am speaking of something that goes beyond religion. Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom! I am not interested in religion per se; belief in, reverence for, personal or institutional system, even if grounded in belief or worship, according to your text book definition. All these thing are things that man is doing Right. A man like Tinkerntom. And I think he's about to do it again. Notice how he won't be able to see the hypocrisy in this. and probably using for his own power/control structure as you so consistantly point out, where he is the big cheese, the top banana, the muckety-muck! That the rest of us get to admire because he is so "spiritual" at least in his own humble opinion. I am not interested in what man is doing, I am interested in finding out what God is doing! Now obviously if you don't believe in God in the first place Only because She doesn't exist. then you don't believe He could be doing anything at all. Approaching this issue in the hypothetical, whatever She's doing, being an omnipotent supernatural being and all, it's pretty clear to me that She'd do whatever She wants to do, and ranting about Her on a kayaking newsgroup isn't going to impact on what She does. Since, after all, She is more powerful than Superman or even Oprah. Or if you believe that there is a pan-theon of Gods, then you may be interested in what they are doing, but most likely, they are more concerned with each other than mere mortals. Um. If you say so. However if there is a God, would it not be beneficial to know what He is up to! If it is possible to know Him, and to see what He is doing, would that change how you look at life and respond to other people, and to Him. All the philosophical head games, word games, annoyingly cute games, that you play with yourself, and with others, become meaningless, if He is, and we can know He is. Play your games in life, and here on RBP, if you want, but if He is, you are only screwing yourself and depriving yourself of the greatest trip around! Then again, maybe religion is a barrier to personal growth and fuller enjoyment of life. I assure you that there is God I assure you that there is no god. He loves you So does my cat. Only my cat exists beyond Tinkerntom's imagination. and He will show Himself to you if you honestly desire to know Him, TnT My cat will show Himself to you for similar reasons. Your spiel in this message was 100% stereotypical of the blather of every promoter of every religion. Disappointing, Tinkerntom, disappointing. And your cluelessness is not surprising! " Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom!" But you are beginning just maybe to get the hang of it a little! Even Melissa in her recent e-mail got as close, and then turned away. Check her e-mail if you are interested, see what you can uncover. This is getting fun again! TnT |
Tink asks:
============ Did you check out Ron's website? What was your impression? =========== WHO is Ron? frtzw906 |
BCITORGB wrote: Tink asks: ============ Did you check out Ron's website? What was your impression? =========== WHO is Ron? frtzw906 I apologize frtzw, my shorthand, and assumptions, got you confused! Ron is Ron038 who recently stated a couple of original post in the NG, "DO YOU WANT TO KNOW FOR SURE YOU ARE GOING TO HEAVEN?", which are linked to, "www.want-to-be-sure.blogspot.com" which I got a tinyurl for and posted to Mark, aka bearsbuddy, which started this particular mini-thread. You checked out my tinyurl, and responded back on march 19, @10:14 AM, "On the topic of religion, however, all bets are off. So, keeping in mind that I don't want to get into this with you, I ask you to read this link you recommended and tell me if there aren't at least a half dozen points made therein that are positively spooky. Case in point: "It doesn't matter how old you are or how many bad things that you have done in your life including lying and stealing all the way up to murder." Now that's just plain WRONG. Not wrong because forgiveness is wrong, but wrong because IMHO, it gives licence to all sorts of kooks to do all sorts of nasty deeds (I bring up, one more time, nutbars flying planes into office buildings -- these guys had their own version of JC). "What the hell, I'll do whatever I want, then spout off some mumbo-jumbo and all is OK again." WRONG! OK, Tink, I really don't want to get into this with you. Let's get back to building my roofrack. " Which I was more than glad to do! The tinyurl was meant for Mark, who insists on sending me to links regarding Satan, and referring to praying to Satan on my behalf, which you could check out if you so desire. This is his reaction to my sharing as I have, and thinks he is cute and clever in his response. He either nas no idea of the fire which he is playing with, or maybe he does, either case, he is neither cute nor clever! As far as I can find out, both Ron038 and bearsbuddy, have until recently been posting on ROFF, and only recently started posting on RBP. I could not determine that either had a lot of interest in fly-fishing, on ROFF, or paddling here on RBP. Ron038 post his link, which noone generally replies to, and Mark trolls a way dragging in anyone he can with mean, nasty, and invaribly OT remarks. I expect that they would be aware of each other, from Roff, and I thought I would do a favor for each of them by reintroducing them to each other, since they both popped up on RBP. Sorry for the confusion this caused you, and for all the veribage distress my explanation mut be causing KMAN and others. As far as your response to the blog, I agree that there is a lot there that is wrong. It reminds me of the John 3:16, crowd that sets behind goal post with their sign waiting for the TV camera to pan their sign, and then claim that they are witnessing. They are witnessing, but what are they witnessing too. It is an embarassment to me, and I am a believer! Hope this clears up the confusion, and how is the rack coming? Appreciatively, TnT |
in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 3/20/05 4:53 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/20/05 2:54 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/19/05 9:22 PM: BCITORGB wrote: Tink opines: ============= So we can still look forward to our little chats, about boats and faith. I prefer the personal approach, to enjoying life. A website just seems a little cold and impersonal. That is sort of like fixing something with a ten pound sledge, that needed a more delicate touch! I hope some of you can appreciate my more delicate touch, I only use a five pound sledge! ============= I'm confused. What are you trying to say? frtzw906 It's like this, I appreciate our conversations. The stimulation is good, and it forces me to consider some issues and how my faith applies to them in the market place of life. Not that you necessarily get me to change my mind, or vice versus. But I have to freshen up my faith and the expression of it. I hope that it has been stimulating to you as well. Rest assured that this is one of the main differences I feel between what I am saying, and what is usually passed off as religion (visa-vis Ron's approach), and which I believe KMAN and others have such a viseral reaction too. First off, it is "visceral." Secondly, my "reaction" to religion is not visceral, but rather based on obvservation and reasoned conclusions about the functioning of religious belief systems and their real world impact on human beings. A very standard dictionary definition of religion is: "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe; a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship." It seems to me that your god blather fits this definition rather perfectly, Tinkerntom. So I'm not sure why you think your religious belief system is somehow disctinct from "what is usually passed off as religion." There you go correcting my spelling again The important issue was not really the spelling. but you seemed to know what I was writing about. Now whether you agree with me or not, that is another issue. I was disagreeing with you about my having a visceral reaction to religion. Even your definition of religion It's not my definition, it's from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. comes from your dictionary which may be correct, but that is not what I am talking about, and I am sure you haven't the foggiest Idea what I am speaking about. That you keep trying to pound it into the religious mould, demonstrates your complete unawareness of a part of life that for all your observation and reasoned conclusions, you are blind and clueless. yawn The dictionary definition is a reflection of a common understanding of the meaning of the word "religion." You seem to be saying that your particular god blather is not "religion." I am pointing out that it seems to fit pretty well with what most people would describe as a religion. Did you understand this point Tom? I'm wondering why you skipped through all of this to make a rather vague comment at the end of the post. Reminds me of a story, a lexiographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develope a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and ask them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say he got four widely different definitions. Reminds me of a story. A lexographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions not based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develop a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and asked them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say, all four of the blind guys through their life experience developed an understanding of what an elephant is. Being blind but fully intellectually functional, each of them figured out what parts they were touching and although some of what they were touching was a bit shocking, it did nothing to dissuade them from their understanding that an elephant is a really big freaking mammal. So, the lexographer ended up using a definition of "elephant" that was very much like past definitions of "elephant" which was fitting since elephants had really not changed much since the word "elephant" was first associated with the big freaking mammals. What did you think of that story Tinkerntom? All I can say to you KMAN, is that I am speaking of something that goes beyond religion. Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom! I am not interested in religion per se; belief in, reverence for, personal or institutional system, even if grounded in belief or worship, according to your text book definition. All these thing are things that man is doing Right. A man like Tinkerntom. And I think he's about to do it again. Notice how he won't be able to see the hypocrisy in this. Was I right? and probably using for his own power/control structure as you so consistantly point out, where he is the big cheese, the top banana, the muckety-muck! That the rest of us get to admire because he is so "spiritual" at least in his own humble opinion. I am not interested in what man is doing, I am interested in finding out what God is doing! Now obviously if you don't believe in God in the first place Only because She doesn't exist. then you don't believe He could be doing anything at all. Approaching this issue in the hypothetical, whatever She's doing, being an omnipotent supernatural being and all, it's pretty clear to me that She'd do whatever She wants to do, and ranting about Her on a kayaking newsgroup isn't going to impact on what She does. Since, after all, She is more powerful than Superman or even Oprah. Or if you believe that there is a pan-theon of Gods, then you may be interested in what they are doing, but most likely, they are more concerned with each other than mere mortals. Um. If you say so. However if there is a God, would it not be beneficial to know what He is up to! If it is possible to know Him, and to see what He is doing, would that change how you look at life and respond to other people, and to Him. All the philosophical head games, word games, annoyingly cute games, that you play with yourself, and with others, become meaningless, if He is, and we can know He is. Play your games in life, and here on RBP, if you want, but if He is, you are only screwing yourself and depriving yourself of the greatest trip around! Then again, maybe religion is a barrier to personal growth and fuller enjoyment of life. Do you think that could be possible Tinkerntom? I assure you that there is God I assure you that there is no god. He loves you So does my cat. Only my cat exists beyond Tinkerntom's imagination. and He will show Himself to you if you honestly desire to know Him, TnT My cat will show Himself to you for similar reasons. Your spiel in this message was 100% stereotypical of the blather of every promoter of every religion. Disappointing, Tinkerntom, disappointing. And your cluelessness is not surprising! Perhaps not. What cluelessness are you referencing? "Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom!" Right? You said that your beliefs were beyond religion. Given that religion involves belief in the supernatural, going beyond must be quite fantastical indeed! But you are beginning just maybe to get the hang of it a little! That's great. What am I getting the hang of Tinkerntom? Even Melissa in her recent e-mail got as close, and then turned away. Check her e-mail if you are interested, see what you can uncover. This is getting fun again! TnT OK? |
KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/20/05 4:53 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/20/05 2:54 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/19/05 9:22 PM: BCITORGB wrote: Tink opines: ============= So we can still look forward to our little chats, about boats and faith. I prefer the personal approach, to enjoying life. A website just seems a little cold and impersonal. That is sort of like fixing something with a ten pound sledge, that needed a more delicate touch! I hope some of you can appreciate my more delicate touch, I only use a five pound sledge! ============= I'm confused. What are you trying to say? frtzw906 It's like this, I appreciate our conversations. The stimulation is good, and it forces me to consider some issues and how my faith applies to them in the market place of life. Not that you necessarily get me to change my mind, or vice versus. But I have to freshen up my faith and the expression of it. I hope that it has been stimulating to you as well. Rest assured that this is one of the main differences I feel between what I am saying, and what is usually passed off as religion (visa-vis Ron's approach), and which I believe KMAN and others have such a viseral reaction too. First off, it is "visceral." Secondly, my "reaction" to religion is not visceral, but rather based on obvservation and reasoned conclusions about the functioning of religious belief systems and their real world impact on human beings. A very standard dictionary definition of religion is: "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe; a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship." It seems to me that your god blather fits this definition rather perfectly, Tinkerntom. So I'm not sure why you think your religious belief system is somehow disctinct from "what is usually passed off as religion." There you go correcting my spelling again The important issue was not really the spelling. but you seemed to know what I was writing about. Now whether you agree with me or not, that is another issue. I was disagreeing with you about my having a visceral reaction to religion. Even your definition of religion It's not my definition, it's from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. comes from your dictionary which may be correct, but that is not what I am talking about, and I am sure you haven't the foggiest Idea what I am speaking about. That you keep trying to pound it into the religious mould, demonstrates your complete unawareness of a part of life that for all your observation and reasoned conclusions, you are blind and clueless. yawn The dictionary definition is a reflection of a common understanding of the meaning of the word "religion." You seem to be saying that your particular god blather is not "religion." I am pointing out that it seems to fit pretty well with what most people would describe as a religion. Did you understand this point Tom? I'm wondering why you skipped through all of this to make a rather vague comment at the end of the post. You are the one that gets after me for my verbiage! So I kept it short, are you asking me to say more now? If so here goes,....Had you worried there for a second didn't I. :) Reminds me of a story, a lexiographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develope a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and ask them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say he got four widely different definitions. Reminds me of a story. A lexographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions not based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develop a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and asked them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say, all four of the blind guys through their life experience developed an understanding of what an elephant is. Being blind but fully intellectually functional, each of them figured out what parts they were touching and although some of what they were touching was a bit shocking, it did nothing to dissuade them from their understanding that an elephant is a really big freaking mammal. So, the lexographer ended up using a definition of "elephant" that was very much like past definitions of "elephant" which was fitting since elephants had really not changed much since the word "elephant" was first associated with the big freaking mammals. What did you think of that story Tinkerntom? The point of my story, was not the definition, but the limited ability of someone blind to see the whole picture from a limited vantage point. I contend that despite your dictionary, you are at a limited vantage point, blind and clueless to what I am saying. By continuing to try to understand what I am saying by referring to your dictionary definition you only demostrate your blindness. Your story, illustrates my point in that the blind men came up with their definition of the elephant, based on the long held definition of an elephant which they were already familiar with because elephants had not changed very much, and though standing at different vantage points, they know where they were standing in reference to the other parts of the elephant. But what kind of definiton is possible, when there is no prior adequate understanding by someone that is blind? I pray that God would heal your blindness! All I can say to you KMAN, is that I am speaking of something that goes beyond religion. Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom! I am not interested in religion per se; belief in, reverence for, personal or institutional system, even if grounded in belief or worship, according to your text book definition. All these thing are things that man is doing Right. A man like Tinkerntom. And I think he's about to do it again. Notice how he won't be able to see the hypocrisy in this. Was I right? And notice that you are still thinking in terms of what man is doing, Religion! And are not able to open your eyes to see the possibility of what God is doing independent of man and religion! That is not hypocritical, or a surprise, for someone that is blind and clueless. Not that there was not a time, I was any different than you, so I understand, and I do not say these things to be mean or hateful towards you! See Melissa, was correct, when she said, we put God in a box (religion) and then limit what He can do by our particular box, or at least as far as we are concerned. We limit Him to our words, phrases, and other expressions of His activity. I am trying to see Him outside of the box, and encourage other to seek Him, and see Him, and what He is doing as well, without the limitations of the Box we call Religion. Even your reference to "She" indicates not religious liberty on your part, but just a different box. So though you protest you are not into God or religion, you in fact acknowledge and practice both! Even if you say I don't believe in God, that is a religion, with all the accompaning practices, words and phrases! Just a different Box! You are trapped, you can not get away from God! Even if you just ignore Him, and don't talk about Him or protest in any way, He is still there very near you! Now I agree, that could be creepy! That He loves you even then, seems very strange! But then He is God! and probably using for his own power/control structure as you so consistantly point out, where he is the big cheese, the top banana, the muckety-muck! That the rest of us get to admire because he is so "spiritual" at least in his own humble opinion. I am not interested in what man is doing, I am interested in finding out what God is doing! Now obviously if you don't believe in God in the first place Only because She doesn't exist. then you don't believe He could be doing anything at all. Approaching this issue in the hypothetical, whatever She's doing, being an omnipotent supernatural being and all, it's pretty clear to me that She'd do whatever She wants to do, and ranting about Her on a kayaking newsgroup isn't going to impact on what She does. Since, after all, She is more powerful than Superman or even Oprah. Or if you believe that there is a pan-theon of Gods, then you may be interested in what they are doing, but most likely, they are more concerned with each other than mere mortals. Um. If you say so. However if there is a God, would it not be beneficial to know what He is up to! If it is possible to know Him, and to see what He is doing, would that change how you look at life and respond to other people, and to Him. All the philosophical head games, word games, annoyingly cute games, that you play with yourself, and with others, become meaningless, if He is, and we can know He is. Play your games in life, and here on RBP, if you want, but if He is, you are only screwing yourself and depriving yourself of the greatest trip around! Then again, maybe religion is a barrier to personal growth and fuller enjoyment of life. Do you think that could be possible Tinkerntom? Religion is definitely a barrier to all kinds of things, especially knowing God, and that is why I am not interested in religion! Religion is like going to a barbecue, and eating the gloves that were worn to put the meat on the grill. They got smoky, and have some flavor of the meat, but I want the steak! Man developed religion like the gloves, to handle God, and manage the heat, and as you have pointed out distribute the benefits (power and control) of the barbeque. I would like to get beyond that and taste the real thing that God is about! I assure you that there is God I assure you that there is no god. He loves you So does my cat. Only my cat exists beyond Tinkerntom's imagination. and He will show Himself to you if you honestly desire to know Him, TnT My cat will show Himself to you for similar reasons. Your spiel in this message was 100% stereotypical of the blather of every promoter of every religion. Disappointing, Tinkerntom, disappointing. And your cluelessness is not surprising! Perhaps not. What cluelessness are you referencing? "Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom!" Right? You said that your beliefs were beyond religion. Given that religion involves belief in the supernatural, going beyond must be quite fantastical indeed! The supernatural, is defined as beyond our understanding of the natural. Still though in this universe, just that we do not understand it. God is from a dimension beyond this universe. Not a parallel universe, where things are the same, but slightly shifted. But where there is no time, and the dimensions that we are normally familiar with are non existant. All that is a part of this universe will pass away someday. Any parallel universe based on time will pass away, but the dimension beyond time will continue to exist without beginning and without end. Not that He can not come into this universe, as He has on many ocassions, and continues to do so. We would describe those ocassions as supernatural, for His existance is beyound time even when He appears here in time. I did not find myself going, it was not my doing, but I did find myself dealing with God, beyond the scope of religion and beyond the normal sense of time in this universe! And it is fantastic, and beyond the mind of man to think or comprehend the Love of God, and what He has prepared for us who believe. You may console yourself that you do not believe in God, or that you have not gone over the edge like Tinkerntom, but, that does not change that God is, and that He will reward those who search for Him, and that He loves you! You may be cute and clever about your cat, but you only deceive yourself. If I persist in sharing with you my apparent lunacy as you see it, it is for the Joy of Knowing God, and hoping that Joy could be yours as well! But you are beginning just maybe to get the hang of it a little! That's great. What am I getting the hang of Tinkerntom? That I am talking about something beyond religion, what man is doing, and to find out what God is doing! This is the most exciting treasure hunt there is, if you care about treasure hunts? Even Melissa in her recent e-mail got as close, and then turned away. Check her e-mail if you are interested, see what you can uncover. This is getting fun again! TnT OK? Just OK? This is getting fun again, and you said Jesus freaks don't know how to have fun! I love treasure hunts and solving mysteries! You are aware of the etymology of the word "mysteries" ? in a theological sense, "religious truth via divine revelation, mystical presence of God," What man does with that mystical presence of God is Religion! What I desire, is to experience the presence! Two different things entirely! I apologize for the veribage, but you ask! :) TnT |
in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 3/20/05 8:56 PM: KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/20/05 4:53 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/20/05 2:54 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , Tinkerntom at wrote on 3/19/05 9:22 PM: BCITORGB wrote: Tink opines: ============= So we can still look forward to our little chats, about boats and faith. I prefer the personal approach, to enjoying life. A website just seems a little cold and impersonal. That is sort of like fixing something with a ten pound sledge, that needed a more delicate touch! I hope some of you can appreciate my more delicate touch, I only use a five pound sledge! ============= I'm confused. What are you trying to say? frtzw906 It's like this, I appreciate our conversations. The stimulation is good, and it forces me to consider some issues and how my faith applies to them in the market place of life. Not that you necessarily get me to change my mind, or vice versus. But I have to freshen up my faith and the expression of it. I hope that it has been stimulating to you as well. Rest assured that this is one of the main differences I feel between what I am saying, and what is usually passed off as religion (visa-vis Ron's approach), and which I believe KMAN and others have such a viseral reaction too. First off, it is "visceral." Secondly, my "reaction" to religion is not visceral, but rather based on obvservation and reasoned conclusions about the functioning of religious belief systems and their real world impact on human beings. A very standard dictionary definition of religion is: "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe; a personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship." It seems to me that your god blather fits this definition rather perfectly, Tinkerntom. So I'm not sure why you think your religious belief system is somehow disctinct from "what is usually passed off as religion." There you go correcting my spelling again The important issue was not really the spelling. but you seemed to know what I was writing about. Now whether you agree with me or not, that is another issue. I was disagreeing with you about my having a visceral reaction to religion. Even your definition of religion It's not my definition, it's from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. comes from your dictionary which may be correct, but that is not what I am talking about, and I am sure you haven't the foggiest Idea what I am speaking about. That you keep trying to pound it into the religious mould, demonstrates your complete unawareness of a part of life that for all your observation and reasoned conclusions, you are blind and clueless. yawn The dictionary definition is a reflection of a common understanding of the meaning of the word "religion." You seem to be saying that your particular god blather is not "religion." I am pointing out that it seems to fit pretty well with what most people would describe as a religion. Did you understand this point Tom? I'm wondering why you skipped through all of this to make a rather vague comment at the end of the post. You are the one that gets after me for my verbiage! So I kept it short, are you asking me to say more now? If so here goes,....Had you worried there for a second didn't I. :) You could address points instead of skipping over them. The key would be to skip the preambles and epilogues, which generally contain nothing but senseless blather. Reminds me of a story, a lexiographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develope a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and ask them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say he got four widely different definitions. Reminds me of a story. A lexographer, desiring to publish a new dictionary, and in all fairness wanting to get unbiased definitions not based on any preconceived perceptions, got to the word "elephant". He decided to hire four blind guys to help develop a definition of what an elephant is like. So he placed one at the front, one at the rear, one underneath, and one on the back of the elephant, and asked them to describe what an elephant was like. Needless to say, all four of the blind guys through their life experience developed an understanding of what an elephant is. Being blind but fully intellectually functional, each of them figured out what parts they were touching and although some of what they were touching was a bit shocking, it did nothing to dissuade them from their understanding that an elephant is a really big freaking mammal. So, the lexographer ended up using a definition of "elephant" that was very much like past definitions of "elephant" which was fitting since elephants had really not changed much since the word "elephant" was first associated with the big freaking mammals. What did you think of that story Tinkerntom? The point of my story, was not the definition, but the limited ability of someone blind to see the whole picture from a limited vantage point. I'd say the story fails to convey the point because it incorporates a fundamental misunderstanding about how blind people acquire knowledge of the world around them. I contend that despite your dictionary, you are at a limited vantage point, blind and clueless to what I am saying. By continuing to try to understand what I am saying by referring to your dictionary definition you only demostrate your blindness. I'm simply pointing out to you that the general understanding of what a religion is fits perfectly with your own expression of your own belief system. Your story, illustrates my point in that the blind men came up with their definition of the elephant, based on the long held definition of an elephant which they were already familiar with because elephants had not changed very much, and though standing at different vantage points, they know where they were standing in reference to the other parts of the elephant. But what kind of definiton is possible, when there is no prior adequate understanding by someone that is blind? I pray that God would heal your blindness! You've just illustrated a non sequitur to absolute perfection. All I can say to you KMAN, is that I am speaking of something that goes beyond religion. Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom! I am not interested in religion per se; belief in, reverence for, personal or institutional system, even if grounded in belief or worship, according to your text book definition. All these thing are things that man is doing Right. A man like Tinkerntom. And I think he's about to do it again. Notice how he won't be able to see the hypocrisy in this. Was I right? And notice that you are still thinking in terms of what man is doing, Religion! And are not able to open your eyes to see the possibility of what God is doing independent of man and religion! That is not hypocritical, or a surprise, for someone that is blind and clueless. Not that there was not a time, I was any different than you, so I understand, and I do not say these things to be mean or hateful towards you! Oh, I agree, I don't think it's necessarily about being mean or hateful to what is around you, but more of an expression of the mean and hate that is inside of you. See Melissa, was correct, when she said, we put God in a box (religion) and then limit what He can do by our particular box, or at least as far as we are concerned. We limit Him to our words, phrases, and other expressions of His activity. I am trying to see Him outside of the box, and encourage other to seek Him, and see Him, and what He is doing as well, without the limitations of the Box we call Religion. Whatever She is doing, as soon as human beings start talking about what She is doing as though they are representing Her in some way, what you've got, Tinkerntom, is a religion. Even your reference to "She" indicates not religious liberty on your part, but just a different box. So though you protest you are not into God or religion, you in fact acknowledge and practice both! Obviously religion exists, Tinterntom. Having fun with how religified people assign a gender to an omnipotent being and Capitalize it for Emphasis is not evidence that I practice religion any more than givin you the finger is evidence that I practice sign language. Even if you say I don't believe in God, that is a religion, with all the accompaning practices, words and phrases! What I say is that there is no god. Just as I say there are no two snowflakes the same. Just a different Box! You are trapped, you can not get away from God! Even if you just ignore Him, and don't talk about Him or protest in any way, He is still there very near you! Now I agree, that could be creepy! That He loves you even then, seems very strange! But then He is God! It's a reality that I cannot escape religified discourse. But then I can't escape gun nut discourse, racist discourse, etc and so on (and of course all three of those go to together quite often). But fortunately I live in a time and place where I can deal with it rather well. and probably using for his own power/control structure as you so consistantly point out, where he is the big cheese, the top banana, the muckety-muck! That the rest of us get to admire because he is so "spiritual" at least in his own humble opinion. I am not interested in what man is doing, I am interested in finding out what God is doing! Now obviously if you don't believe in God in the first place Only because She doesn't exist. then you don't believe He could be doing anything at all. Approaching this issue in the hypothetical, whatever She's doing, being an omnipotent supernatural being and all, it's pretty clear to me that She'd do whatever She wants to do, and ranting about Her on a kayaking newsgroup isn't going to impact on what She does. Since, after all, She is more powerful than Superman or even Oprah. Or if you believe that there is a pan-theon of Gods, then you may be interested in what they are doing, but most likely, they are more concerned with each other than mere mortals. Um. If you say so. However if there is a God, would it not be beneficial to know what He is up to! If it is possible to know Him, and to see what He is doing, would that change how you look at life and respond to other people, and to Him. All the philosophical head games, word games, annoyingly cute games, that you play with yourself, and with others, become meaningless, if He is, and we can know He is. Play your games in life, and here on RBP, if you want, but if He is, you are only screwing yourself and depriving yourself of the greatest trip around! Then again, maybe religion is a barrier to personal growth and fuller enjoyment of life. Do you think that could be possible Tinkerntom? Religion is definitely a barrier to all kinds of things, especially knowing God, and that is why I am not interested in religion! You espouse religion on this newsgroup just about every single day. Religion is like going to a barbecue, and eating the gloves that were worn to put the meat on the grill. They got smoky, and have some flavor of the meat, but I want the steak! Man developed religion like the gloves, to handle God, and manage the heat, and as you have pointed out distribute the benefits (power and control) of the barbeque. I would like to get beyond that and taste the real thing that God is about! Well Tinkerntom, the only way I could see that being possible would be to use whatever motivation that you get from your belief system and use it to make the world a better place. But the minute you start yapping about god, you are just another religious practioner, and I'm sorry it bothers you so much that you ahve to try to deny that reality. I assure you that there is God I assure you that there is no god. He loves you So does my cat. Only my cat exists beyond Tinkerntom's imagination. and He will show Himself to you if you honestly desire to know Him, TnT My cat will show Himself to you for similar reasons. Your spiel in this message was 100% stereotypical of the blather of every promoter of every religion. Disappointing, Tinkerntom, disappointing. And your cluelessness is not surprising! Perhaps not. What cluelessness are you referencing? Tinkerntom, what cluelessness are you referencing? "Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom!" Right? You said that your beliefs were beyond religion. Given that religion involves belief in the supernatural, going beyond must be quite fantastical indeed! The supernatural, is defined as beyond our understanding of the natural. Still though in this universe, just that we do not understand it. God is from a dimension beyond this universe. Not a parallel universe, where things are the same, but slightly shifted. But where there is no time, and the dimensions that we are normally familiar with are non existant. All that is a part of this universe will pass away someday. Any parallel universe based on time will pass away, but the dimension beyond time will continue to exist without beginning and without end. Not that He can not come into this universe, as He has on many ocassions, and continues to do so. We would describe those ocassions as supernatural, for His existance is beyound time even when He appears here in time. I did not find myself going, it was not my doing, but I did find myself dealing with God, beyond the scope of religion and beyond the normal sense of time in this universe! And it is fantastic, and beyond the mind of man to think or comprehend the Love of God, and what He has prepared for us who believe. You may console yourself that you do not believe in God or that you have not gone over the edge like Tinkerntom, but, that does not change that God is, and that He will reward those who search for Him, and that He loves you! You may be cute and clever about your cat, but you only deceive yourself. If I persist in sharing with you my apparent lunacy as you see it, it is for the Joy of Knowing God, and hoping that Joy could be yours as well! I should have known that despite several paragraphs of blather you were not going to address the point at hand. But you are beginning just maybe to get the hang of it a little! That's great. What am I getting the hang of Tinkerntom? That I am talking about something beyond religion Sorry, you are mistaken. I'm more certain than ever that you are quite solidly and boringly in the traditional religious camp. You might not be proselytizing a specific religious institutional viewpoint, but your godtalk is completely and utterly religious in nature. what man is doing, and to find out what God is doing! This is the most exciting treasure hunt there is, if you care about treasure hunts? The most exciting treausure hunt there is, for me, is supporting another human being to achieve. Even Melissa in her recent e-mail got as close, and then turned away. Check her e-mail if you are interested, see what you can uncover. This is getting fun again! TnT OK? Just OK? This is getting fun again, and you said Jesus freaks don't know how to have fun! I love treasure hunts and solving mysteries! You are aware of the etymology of the word "mysteries" ? in a theological sense, "religious truth via divine revelation, mystical presence of God," What man does with that mystical presence of God is Religion! Right. And, unless you inform otherwise, you are a man. What you are doing is religion. What I desire, is to experience the presence! Two different things entirely! I apologize for the veribage, but you ask! :) TnT Whatever you are experiencing, as soon as you express it as a religious belief system (as you are doing) you are practicing religion. Sorry that bothers you. You and the pope are in the same business. He just has a fancier car. |
KMAN wrote: ....snip... Tinkerntom. So I'm not sure why you think your religious belief system is somehow disctinct from "what is usually passed off as religion." ....snip... yawn The dictionary definition is a reflection of a common understanding of the meaning of the word "religion." You seem to be saying that your particular god blather is not "religion." I am pointing out that it seems to fit pretty well with what most people would describe as a religion. ....snip... You could address points instead of skipping over them. The key would be to skip the preambles and epilogues, which generally contain nothing but senseless blather. ....snip... All I can say to you KMAN, is that I am speaking of something that goes beyond religion. Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom! I am not interested in religion per se; belief in, reverence for, personal or institutional system, even if grounded in belief or worship, according to your text book definition. All these thing are things that man is doing Right. A man like Tinkerntom. And I think he's about to do it again. Notice how he won't be able to see the hypocrisy in this. Was I right? And notice that you are still thinking in terms of what man is doing, Religion! And are not able to open your eyes to see the possibility of what God is doing independent of man and religion! That is not hypocritical, or a surprise, for someone that is blind and clueless. Not that there was not a time, I was any different than you, so I understand, and I do not say these things to be mean or hateful towards you! Oh, I agree, I don't think it's necessarily about being mean or hateful to what is around you, but more of an expression of the mean and hate that is inside of you. Well I can discount this statement as being self serving, on your part, because you don't know me to know what is inside of me. You are just expressing your preconceived ideas against religion, which is not what I am talking about anyway. See Melissa, was correct, when she said, we put God in a box (religion) and then limit what He can do by our particular box, or at least as far as we are concerned. We limit Him to our words, phrases, and other expressions of His activity. I am trying to see Him outside of the box, and encourage other to seek Him, and see Him, and what He is doing as well, without the limitations of the Box we call Religion. Whatever She is doing, as soon as human beings start talking about what She is doing as though they are representing Her in some way, what you've got, Tinkerntom, is a religion. And that is why, I encourage you to believe He is, and He is the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. That way it is not based on what I say, but on your own experiential knowledge of His Love. Even your reference to "She" indicates not religious liberty on your part, but just a different box. So though you protest you are not into God or religion, you in fact acknowledge and practice both! Obviously religion exists, Tinterntom. Having fun with how religified people assign a gender to an omnipotent being and Capitalize it for Emphasis is not evidence that I practice religion any more than givin you the finger is evidence that I practice sign language. Even if you say I don't believe in God, that is a religion, with all the accompaning practices, words and phrases! What I say is that there is no god. Just as I say there are no two snowflakes the same. Just a different Box! You are trapped, you can not get away from God! Even if you just ignore Him, and don't talk about Him or protest in any way, He is still there very near you! Now I agree, that could be creepy! That He loves you even then, seems very strange! But then He is God! It's a reality that I cannot escape religified discourse. But then I can't escape gun nut discourse, racist discourse, etc and so on (and of course all three of those go to together quite often). But fortunately I live in a time and place where I can deal with it rather well. What does fortune have to do with it? Maybe God put you there because He knew you could not deal with it elsewhere. If you can not get away from God, that is one thing. If you bring up religion, and then claim you can not get away from it, then that is a different issue. ....snip... Then again, maybe religion is a barrier to personal growth and fuller enjoyment of life. Do you think that could be possible Tinkerntom? Religion is definitely a barrier to all kinds of things, especially knowing God, and that is why I am not interested in religion! You espouse religion on this newsgroup just about every single day. Only because you ask! If you don't ask, as many here don't ask, and I say nary a word to them about God. You may be hindered by religion, since you seem to have the problem with knowing God. Religion is like going to a barbecue, and eating the gloves that were worn to put the meat on the grill. They got smoky, and have some flavor of the meat, but I want the steak! Man developed religion like the gloves, to handle God, and manage the heat, and as you have pointed out distribute the benefits (power and control) of the barbeque. I would like to get beyond that and taste the real thing that God is about! Well Tinkerntom, the only way I could see that being possible would be to use whatever motivation that you get from your belief system and use it to make the world a better place. But the minute you start yapping about god, you are just another religious practioner, and I'm sorry it bothers you so much that you ahve to try to deny that reality. Doesn't bother me, I just know there is a greater reality beyond religion, if you can't see it, who's blind? If you hear yapping, you may be hard of hearing as well! That we all practice some form of religion is not the question either. I assure you that there is God I assure you that there is no god. And You base this conclusion on exactly what fact or observation? ....snip... Whatever you are experiencing, as soon as you express it as a religious belief system (as you are doing) you are practicing religion. Sorry that bothers you. You and the pope are in the same business. He just has a fancier car. I'm sure he does, though I did not know the pope is a locksmith! Golly you learn something new every day! I took the liberty to do some snipping, if there is something you want to discuss further, let me know. Your whole argument comes down to the statement "I assure you that there is no god." I ask you what is the basis for your statement? TnT |
in article , Tinkerntom
at wrote on 3/21/05 12:53 AM: KMAN wrote: ...snip... Tinkerntom. So I'm not sure why you think your religious belief system is somehow disctinct from "what is usually passed off as religion." ...snip... yawn The dictionary definition is a reflection of a common understanding of the meaning of the word "religion." You seem to be saying that your particular god blather is not "religion." I am pointing out that it seems to fit pretty well with what most people would describe as a religion. ...snip... You could address points instead of skipping over them. The key would be to skip the preambles and epilogues, which generally contain nothing but senseless blather. ...snip... All I can say to you KMAN, is that I am speaking of something that goes beyond religion. Since religion involves belief in the supernatural, you must be WAY OUT THERE to go beyond that, Tinkerntom! I am not interested in religion per se; belief in, reverence for, personal or institutional system, even if grounded in belief or worship, according to your text book definition. All these thing are things that man is doing Right. A man like Tinkerntom. And I think he's about to do it again. Notice how he won't be able to see the hypocrisy in this. Was I right? And notice that you are still thinking in terms of what man is doing, Religion! And are not able to open your eyes to see the possibility of what God is doing independent of man and religion! That is not hypocritical, or a surprise, for someone that is blind and clueless. Not that there was not a time, I was any different than you, so I understand, and I do not say these things to be mean or hateful towards you! Oh, I agree, I don't think it's necessarily about being mean or hateful to what is around you, but more of an expression of the mean and hate that is inside of you. Well I can discount this statement as being self serving, on your part, because you don't know me to know what is inside of me. You are just expressing your preconceived ideas against religion, which is not what I am talking about anyway. I'm not talking about my "ideas against religion" either. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, I've seen enough from you to understand that you often use your belief system as a passive aggressive weapon. See Melissa, was correct, when she said, we put God in a box (religion) and then limit what He can do by our particular box, or at least as far as we are concerned. We limit Him to our words, phrases, and other expressions of His activity. I am trying to see Him outside of the box, and encourage other to seek Him, and see Him, and what He is doing as well, without the limitations of the Box we call Religion. Whatever She is doing, as soon as human beings start talking about what She is doing as though they are representing Her in some way, what you've got, Tinkerntom, is a religion. And that is why, I encourage you to believe He is, and He is the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. That way it is not based on what I say, but on your own experiential knowledge of His Love. Wow, this is mind-blowing. Can't you see the blatant hypocrisy and inconsistency of what you are saying? "I'm telling it to you, but it is not based on what I say" It doesn't make sense Tinkerntom. Like it or not, you are acting in the capacity of a marketing agent for a supernatural being, and that's...yes...religion! Even your reference to "She" indicates not religious liberty on your part, but just a different box. So though you protest you are not into God or religion, you in fact acknowledge and practice both! Obviously religion exists, Tinterntom. Having fun with how religified people assign a gender to an omnipotent being and Capitalize it for Emphasis is not evidence that I practice religion any more than givin you the finger is evidence that I practice sign language. You got this point, right? Even if you say I don't believe in God, that is a religion, with all the accompaning practices, words and phrases! What I say is that there is no god. Just as I say there are no two snowflakes the same. You got this point, right? Just a different Box! You are trapped, you can not get away from God! Even if you just ignore Him, and don't talk about Him or protest in any way, He is still there very near you! Now I agree, that could be creepy! That He loves you even then, seems very strange! But then He is God! It's a reality that I cannot escape religified discourse. But then I can't escape gun nut discourse, racist discourse, etc and so on (and of course all three of those go to together quite often). But fortunately I live in a time and place where I can deal with it rather well. What does fortune have to do with it? I'm "fortunate" to be a white middle class male living in Ottawa, Canada in the sense that it is a very priveleged position where I do not have to fear, or do not have to fear to the same extent as I would in other situations, racist reprisals, religious oppression, etc and so on. Maybe God put you there because He knew you could not deal with it elsewhere. If you can not get away from God, that is one thing. If you bring up religion, and then claim you can not get away from it, then that is a different issue. I have no idea what you are talking about here. ...snip... Then again, maybe religion is a barrier to personal growth and fuller enjoyment of life. Do you think that could be possible Tinkerntom? Religion is definitely a barrier to all kinds of things, especially knowing God, and that is why I am not interested in religion! You espouse religion on this newsgroup just about every single day. Only because you ask! If you don't ask, as many here don't ask, and I say nary a word to them about God. Well, perhaps you don't realize how often you blather on in godtalk when it has little to do with the point at hand. You may be hindered by religion, since you seem to have the problem with knowing God. I am hindered by religion in the same way that I an every other citizen is hindered by corruption, racism, etc and so on. It is part of the challenge of life to overcome those hindrances, and as I see life, to help others overcome them too - if they ask me to help them. Religion is like going to a barbecue, and eating the gloves that were worn to put the meat on the grill. They got smoky, and have some flavor of the meat, but I want the steak! Man developed religion like the gloves, to handle God, and manage the heat, and as you have pointed out distribute the benefits (power and control) of the barbeque. I would like to get beyond that and taste the real thing that God is about! Well Tinkerntom, the only way I could see that being possible would be to use whatever motivation that you get from your belief system and use it to make the world a better place. But the minute you start yapping about god, you are just another religious practioner, and I'm sorry it bothers you so much that you ahve to try to deny that reality. Doesn't bother me Sure it doesn, you keep denying it. I just know there is a greater reality beyond religion, if you can't see it, who's blind? If you hear yapping, you may be hard of hearing as well! That we all practice some form of religion is not the question either. I do not practice any form of religion. I assure you that there is God I assure you that there is no god. And You base this conclusion on exactly what fact or observation? The same method I use to conclude that the centre of the earth is not made of cream cheese. ...snip... Whatever you are experiencing, as soon as you express it as a religious belief system (as you are doing) you are practicing religion. Sorry that bothers you. You and the pope are in the same business. He just has a fancier car. I'm sure he does, though I did not know the pope is a locksmith! Golly you learn something new every day! I took the liberty to do some snipping, if there is something you want to discuss further, let me know. Your whole argument comes down to the statement "I assure you that there is no god." What argument is that? I'm not sure what you think I am arguing. The only "argument" I am aware of here is that you are espousing your religious beliefs and trying to deny that you are doing so. I've illustrated for you that your belief system is 100% consistent with a mainstream understanding of what religion means. You continue to deny that you are a religious practitioner, for whatever reasons. And that's the only argument I'm aware of. There's no point arguing with you about whether or not there is a god, because She only exists in your imagination and I obviously can't prove to you that what you imagine to be real is in fact unreal. I ask you what is the basis for your statement? TnT The same basis for saying there is no "x" whatever x may be. If I tell you that Oprah Winfrey is a Goddess and that She and She alone controls your life, Tinkerntom, what would be the basis for saying that I am wrong? |
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