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260 Defiance, not that dissimilar to a Parker
Affordable Family Fun and Fishing!
Palmer Marine, of Port Orchard, Washington, has been building boats for over 30 years. Most Pacific NW'ers have probably noticed their brand name "Tiderunner" on a line of durable, trailerable, fishing boats. Palmer Marine recently expanded its product selection to include some enclosed cabin boats that are still ideal for fishing, but are also large enough to be used by a small family for weekend and vacation expeditions. We recently enjoyed an opportunity to test Palmer Marine's 260 Defiance. The vessel was in stock at a local dealership, Signal Yacht Sales at Kitsap Marina in Port Orchard. The 260 Defiance appears to be very well built. There is absolutely no structural wood in the hull or decks. Stringers, transoms, bulkheads, and other locations constantly on the "watch list" when wood has been used as a template or foundation for fiberglass should be trouble free for the life of a 260 Defiance. The hand-laid hull is vacuum bag molded with 100% vinylester laminate to assure a void-free wet out and make blistering extremely unlikely. Dimensions and General Hull Design: The Defiance 260 is 25'10" LOA. Overall beam is 8'6", with beam at the waterline 7'6". Draft is approximately 18", and displacement is listed at 5500 pounds. The hull is rated for up to 400 HP. Deadrise is 22-degrees, and fuel capacity is listed at 135 gallons. (Our test boat was configured for only 110 gallons, as it was equipped with a third fish hold in lieu of an auxiliary fuel tank). The deep-v hull incorporates some features that Palmer calls "Stable-Trak" design. A well-flared bow and prominent strakes at the chine permit the 260 Defiance to divert spray away from the decks when running on plane, or to handle rough water with greater confidence when slowed to displacement speeds. Palmer Marine builds the 260 Defiance with a short but workable foredeck. The foredeck and sidedecks are nonskid, with several inch bulwarks and the cabin superstructure creating a very well defined and secure "track" to use when walking forward. The track appears wide enough for a rubber boot. There is a sturdy, stainless perimeter rail system and handholds on the cabin top, but Palmer wisely anticipated that many boaters going forward on the 260 Defiance would have both hands busy with a fishing rod. The deep foot track in the deck promotes hands free confidence. The side decks are designed to drain through the bulwarks, rather than channel water from the foredeck to the cockpit. An anchor pulpit is standard on the 260 Defiance, with a rode locker immediately aft. Our test boat was equipped with an optional stainless radar arch, equipped with two forward facing lamps that might prove handy if docking or loading aboard a trailer after dark. Families planning to fish, or searching for a good space to erect a folding table and a couple of chairs when relaxing at an island anchorage next summer will appreciate the roomy cockpit of the 260 Defiance. The cockpit is self-bailing, with 27" bulwarks. Fish rods can be stowed in dedicated recesses to both port and starboard, with flushable fish boxes under nonskid cockpit hatches. The bilge pump, the batteries, the hydraulic steering, and many other systems are serviceable through an access door in the transom of the cockpit. A series of cockpit courtesy lights, just above deck level, are standard equipment and will be extremely convenient during predawn or evening hours. Our test boat was equipped with an aft cabin bulkhead, creating a cabin that can be truly described as fully enclosed. The cabin door and the sliding cabin side windows are aluminum framed and fitted with tempered glass. Interior Amenities: For a 26-foot boat with a large cockpit, the 260 Defiance does a commendable job of providing a decent cabin area. Headroom in the main cabin is several inches over six feet. A dinette, (with lockers below the seats) is located to port, and can be converted to a single berth by lowering the tabletop and inserting an additional cushion. The helm is to starboard, with cup or beverage holders alongside and a small 12-volt refrigerator immediately below the seat. A galley sink with potable water pump is just aft of the helm seat, and our test boat had a handy Wallas stove to perform both cooking and cabin heating chores. Three people could sit comfortably in the cabin underway, with additional passengers siting on the V-berths under the foredeck. The V-berth area on our test boat had a folding door to create privacy. Three overhead lights with red-bulb option for enhanced night vision should provide very satisfactory illumination after dark. Each of the individual forward cabin windows has a wiper, as well as a separate fan for defrosting and defogging. While many similar boats would offer a portable marine toilet as an option, our 260 Defiance test boat featured a fully plumbed marine head, with a pushbutton macerating flush system and a holding tank. The marine toilet is concealed under the removable center cushion in the V-berth. The cabin fixtures are teak, and the durable fabric headliner is secured with a series of teak battens. There would seem to be enough cabin comforts to provide a basic weekend cruising platform for a couple, with certainly one adult guest or a couple of kids as well. Observations underway: Orrin Nelson, General Manager of Kitsap Marina, was kind enough to allow us to use the 260 Defiance and accompanied us during our trial run. Conditions were calm, and our test area was the Port Orchard waterway. Speed was determined with a handheld Magellan GPS, and fuel consumption by the vessel's optional Flo-Scan meter. Buyers can specify a variety of outboard motors for the 260 Defiance. Our test boat was equipped with a 2005, 250 HP Suzuki four-stroke outboard. Orrin turned the key, and the Suzuki started instantly. We noted an impression, in the cabin, that the boat seems to sit in the water ever so slightly down at the bow. This is most likely the result of an optical illusion created by the forward slope of the trunk cabintop over the V-berth, as the boat appears to sit well on its lines when viewed from a distance. If there were any bow down tendency, it would be eliminated once the boat gets underway, and we finally decided on optical illusion as the most likely explanation. One of the advantages of outboard power can be a quieter cabin environment. The Suzuki four-stroke is a smooth and quiet engine, and placing it well away from the cabin results in far less noise than we would have experienced with most inboard or I/O applications. We motored away from the marina dock, picked an unobstructed portion of the waterway, and throttled up to 2500 rpm. Visibility over the bow remained excellent at all speeds during out trial, even when accelerating from dead slow or a standing start. At 2500, we were making 8.4 kts and burning 4.5 gph. At 3500 rpm, we noted that the exaggerated chine was functioning very well, with spray emerging only in the last third of the hull length, aft of the bulkhead door. We were burning 7.9 gph, to make 15.5 kts. We improved fuel efficiency when we reached 4500 rpm, with 12.1 gph producing a speed of 26.7 kts. Bringing the engine up to wide-open throttle, (6000 rpm), we consumed fuel at the rate of 21 gph and the GPS read 36.4 kts. The 260 Defiance proved to be nimble as we maneuvered at speed. The boat leans just slightly in a turn, but the Stable-Trak chine engages the surface to define the outermost extreme of the tendency at a moderate and reassuring angle. Conditions were almost dead calm, so the only seas we encountered were our own wake, and the 260 Defiance produces only a small wake at any sort of cruising speeds. Slowing down to come off plane, we turned into the larger wake and negotiated it with a solid "thump" under the hull that we heard far more clearly than we felt. One can easily imagine trusting this hull in any conditions under which a sane Pacific NW boater would get underway, or even worse conditions that could arise midway through a passage. We slowed to idle speed, and noted that even with the 250HP Suzuki the 260 Defiance could be reduced to salmon trolling speed. The GPS read 1.9 kts. "It would make sense to mount a trolling motor if a boater wanted to do a lot of fishing," said Orrin. "Even though we can slow down enough, most people would be happier putting hours on a smaller and less expensive motor, rather than a $16,000 outboard." Conclusions: Palmer Marine's 260 Defiance should prove an excellent choice for anyone interested in a trailerable fishing boat that is realistically capable of doubling as an overnight or short vacation cruiser. With a long list of options, our test boat had a "boat show" price of about $83,000, including the 250-horse Suzuki and a galvanized trailer. Cabin accommodations are basic and functional rather than elaborate or extravagant, but for many outdoor-oriented NW'ers, boating is often more about having fun on the water rather than lounging around in an opulent interior. The five-figure price on the 260 Defiance puts it within realistic reach of a greater number of ordinary income boating families, and getting more people onto the water will be among the many things for which Palmer Marine's flagship 26-footer will be commended. For additional information on the Palmer Marine 260 Defiance, please call Signal Yacht Sales at Kitsap Marina: 360-874-0504 |
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wrote in message oups.com... Affordable Family Fun and Fishing! Palmer Marine, of Port Orchard, Washington, has been building boats for over 30 years. Most Pacific NW'ers have probably noticed their brand name "Tiderunner" on a line of durable, trailerable, fishing boats. Palmer Marine recently expanded its product selection to include some enclosed cabin boats that are still ideal for fishing, but are also large enough to be used by a small family for weekend and vacation expeditions. We recently enjoyed an opportunity to test Palmer Marine's 260 Defiance. The vessel was in stock at a local dealership, Signal Yacht Sales at Kitsap Marina in Port Orchard. The 260 Defiance appears to be very well built. There is absolutely no structural wood in the hull or decks. Stringers, transoms, bulkheads, and other locations constantly on the "watch list" when wood has been used as a template or foundation for fiberglass should be trouble free for the life of a 260 Defiance. The hand-laid hull is vacuum bag molded with 100% vinylester laminate to assure a void-free wet out and make blistering extremely unlikely. Dimensions and General Hull Design: The Defiance 260 is 25'10" LOA. Overall beam is 8'6", with beam at the waterline 7'6". Draft is approximately 18", and displacement is listed at 5500 pounds. The hull is rated for up to 400 HP. Deadrise is 22-degrees, and fuel capacity is listed at 135 gallons. (Our test boat was configured for only 110 gallons, as it was equipped with a third fish hold in lieu of an auxiliary fuel tank). The deep-v hull incorporates some features that Palmer calls "Stable-Trak" design. A well-flared bow and prominent strakes at the chine permit the 260 Defiance to divert spray away from the decks when running on plane, or to handle rough water with greater confidence when slowed to displacement speeds. Palmer Marine builds the 260 Defiance with a short but workable foredeck. The foredeck and sidedecks are nonskid, with several inch bulwarks and the cabin superstructure creating a very well defined and secure "track" to use when walking forward. The track appears wide enough for a rubber boot. There is a sturdy, stainless perimeter rail system and handholds on the cabin top, but Palmer wisely anticipated that many boaters going forward on the 260 Defiance would have both hands busy with a fishing rod. The deep foot track in the deck promotes hands free confidence. The side decks are designed to drain through the bulwarks, rather than channel water from the foredeck to the cockpit. An anchor pulpit is standard on the 260 Defiance, with a rode locker immediately aft. Our test boat was equipped with an optional stainless radar arch, equipped with two forward facing lamps that might prove handy if docking or loading aboard a trailer after dark. Families planning to fish, or searching for a good space to erect a folding table and a couple of chairs when relaxing at an island anchorage next summer will appreciate the roomy cockpit of the 260 Defiance. The cockpit is self-bailing, with 27" bulwarks. Fish rods can be stowed in dedicated recesses to both port and starboard, with flushable fish boxes under nonskid cockpit hatches. The bilge pump, the batteries, the hydraulic steering, and many other systems are serviceable through an access door in the transom of the cockpit. A series of cockpit courtesy lights, just above deck level, are standard equipment and will be extremely convenient during predawn or evening hours. Our test boat was equipped with an aft cabin bulkhead, creating a cabin that can be truly described as fully enclosed. The cabin door and the sliding cabin side windows are aluminum framed and fitted with tempered glass. Interior Amenities: For a 26-foot boat with a large cockpit, the 260 Defiance does a commendable job of providing a decent cabin area. Headroom in the main cabin is several inches over six feet. A dinette, (with lockers below the seats) is located to port, and can be converted to a single berth by lowering the tabletop and inserting an additional cushion. The helm is to starboard, with cup or beverage holders alongside and a small 12-volt refrigerator immediately below the seat. A galley sink with potable water pump is just aft of the helm seat, and our test boat had a handy Wallas stove to perform both cooking and cabin heating chores. Three people could sit comfortably in the cabin underway, with additional passengers siting on the V-berths under the foredeck. The V-berth area on our test boat had a folding door to create privacy. Three overhead lights with red-bulb option for enhanced night vision should provide very satisfactory illumination after dark. Each of the individual forward cabin windows has a wiper, as well as a separate fan for defrosting and defogging. While many similar boats would offer a portable marine toilet as an option, our 260 Defiance test boat featured a fully plumbed marine head, with a pushbutton macerating flush system and a holding tank. The marine toilet is concealed under the removable center cushion in the V-berth. The cabin fixtures are teak, and the durable fabric headliner is secured with a series of teak battens. There would seem to be enough cabin comforts to provide a basic weekend cruising platform for a couple, with certainly one adult guest or a couple of kids as well. Observations underway: Orrin Nelson, General Manager of Kitsap Marina, was kind enough to allow us to use the 260 Defiance and accompanied us during our trial run. Conditions were calm, and our test area was the Port Orchard waterway. Speed was determined with a handheld Magellan GPS, and fuel consumption by the vessel's optional Flo-Scan meter. Buyers can specify a variety of outboard motors for the 260 Defiance. Our test boat was equipped with a 2005, 250 HP Suzuki four-stroke outboard. Orrin turned the key, and the Suzuki started instantly. We noted an impression, in the cabin, that the boat seems to sit in the water ever so slightly down at the bow. This is most likely the result of an optical illusion created by the forward slope of the trunk cabintop over the V-berth, as the boat appears to sit well on its lines when viewed from a distance. If there were any bow down tendency, it would be eliminated once the boat gets underway, and we finally decided on optical illusion as the most likely explanation. One of the advantages of outboard power can be a quieter cabin environment. The Suzuki four-stroke is a smooth and quiet engine, and placing it well away from the cabin results in far less noise than we would have experienced with most inboard or I/O applications. We motored away from the marina dock, picked an unobstructed portion of the waterway, and throttled up to 2500 rpm. Visibility over the bow remained excellent at all speeds during out trial, even when accelerating from dead slow or a standing start. At 2500, we were making 8.4 kts and burning 4.5 gph. At 3500 rpm, we noted that the exaggerated chine was functioning very well, with spray emerging only in the last third of the hull length, aft of the bulkhead door. We were burning 7.9 gph, to make 15.5 kts. We improved fuel efficiency when we reached 4500 rpm, with 12.1 gph producing a speed of 26.7 kts. Bringing the engine up to wide-open throttle, (6000 rpm), we consumed fuel at the rate of 21 gph and the GPS read 36.4 kts. The 260 Defiance proved to be nimble as we maneuvered at speed. The boat leans just slightly in a turn, but the Stable-Trak chine engages the surface to define the outermost extreme of the tendency at a moderate and reassuring angle. Conditions were almost dead calm, so the only seas we encountered were our own wake, and the 260 Defiance produces only a small wake at any sort of cruising speeds. Slowing down to come off plane, we turned into the larger wake and negotiated it with a solid "thump" under the hull that we heard far more clearly than we felt. One can easily imagine trusting this hull in any conditions under which a sane Pacific NW boater would get underway, or even worse conditions that could arise midway through a passage. We slowed to idle speed, and noted that even with the 250HP Suzuki the 260 Defiance could be reduced to salmon trolling speed. The GPS read 1.9 kts. "It would make sense to mount a trolling motor if a boater wanted to do a lot of fishing," said Orrin. "Even though we can slow down enough, most people would be happier putting hours on a smaller and less expensive motor, rather than a $16,000 outboard." Conclusions: Palmer Marine's 260 Defiance should prove an excellent choice for anyone interested in a trailerable fishing boat that is realistically capable of doubling as an overnight or short vacation cruiser. With a long list of options, our test boat had a "boat show" price of about $83,000, including the 250-horse Suzuki I paid $14,900 (taxes, rigging included) for a 250 Suzuki. The trailer is probably $3500. That means they're selling that boat for almost $65k. That seems like a lot of money for a 26' boat. http://www.shamrockboats.com/defianc...ucts&model=260 |
NOYB wrote:
I paid $14,900 (taxes, rigging included) for a 250 Suzuki. The trailer is probably $3500. That means they're selling that boat for almost $65k. That seems like a lot of money for a 26' boat. ********** It's a lot of money, but it's not out of whack with comparable offerings. In fact, just try to find anything except an open runabout for less than $50k in a new boat. Hard to do. I just happened across an ad for an eight year old Grady White, 26', with an asking price of $47,000. Try thinking of it in automobile prices: A decent little boat costs about the same as a Jaguar. :-) |
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wrote in message oups.com... NOYB wrote: I paid $14,900 (taxes, rigging included) for a 250 Suzuki. The trailer is probably $3500. That means they're selling that boat for almost $65k. That seems like a lot of money for a 26' boat. ********** It's a lot of money, but it's not out of whack with comparable offerings. In fact, just try to find anything except an open runabout for less than $50k in a new boat. Hard to do. I just happened across an ad for an eight year old Grady White, 26', with an asking price of $47,000. I paid $18k for my boat. I got 150 hours out of the original motor before I blew the powerhead. I repowered with the Suzuki, and now have a brand new motor pushing a very solid, functional 25' (center console with forward cuddy) for $33k. I just can't see shelling out another $40-50 for the same boat new. I'm glad there are people willing to buy new...'cause it sure makes it nice when I can buy it cheap *after* all of the depreciation. |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound - I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list. I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as versatile as the Fisharound. |
On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound - I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list. I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as versatile as the Fisharound. Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! The cabin area is very nice too - surprising how much room it has. I always thought the forward cuddy was a great idea. Mako built one for a few years as did Boston Whaler, but Contender was about the only one who actually kept one in the line. Later, Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0500, "NOYB" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound - I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list. I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as versatile as the Fisharound. Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! The cabin area is very nice too - surprising how much room it has. I always thought the forward cuddy was a great idea. Mako built one for a few years as did Boston Whaler, but Contender was about the only one who actually kept one in the line. Pursuit had one too. Yellowfin has a 34' and Marlago has a 35'. I think Scarab has one also. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: wrote in message oups.com... NOYB wrote: I paid $14,900 (taxes, rigging included) for a 250 Suzuki. The trailer is probably $3500. That means they're selling that boat for almost $65k. That seems like a lot of money for a 26' boat. ********** It's a lot of money, but it's not out of whack with comparable offerings. In fact, just try to find anything except an open runabout for less than $50k in a new boat. Hard to do. I just happened across an ad for an eight year old Grady White, 26', with an asking price of $47,000. I paid $18k for my boat. I got 150 hours out of the original motor before I blew the powerhead. I repowered with the Suzuki, and now have a brand new motor pushing a very solid, functional 25' (center console with forward cuddy) for $33k. I just can't see shelling out another $40-50 for the same boat new. I'm glad there are people willing to buy new...'cause it sure makes it nice when I can buy it cheap *after* all of the depreciation. Darn, and I was going to offer you my Parker for $60,000. That's not a bad price, but I'm waiting for Shortwave Sportfishing to offer to sell me his Contender 31' Fisharound for $60k. ;-) |
"NOYB" wrote in message ... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0500, "NOYB" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound - I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list. I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as versatile as the Fisharound. Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! The cabin area is very nice too - surprising how much room it has. I always thought the forward cuddy was a great idea. Mako built one for a few years as did Boston Whaler, but Contender was about the only one who actually kept one in the line. Pursuit had one too. Yellowfin has a 34' and Marlago has a 35'. I think Scarab has one also. http://www.contender.com/fleet_31F.asp |
"NOYB" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0500, "NOYB" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message m... But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound - I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list. I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as versatile as the Fisharound. Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! The cabin area is very nice too - surprising how much room it has. I always thought the forward cuddy was a great idea. Mako built one for a few years as did Boston Whaler, but Contender was about the only one who actually kept one in the line. Pursuit had one too. Yellowfin has a 34' and Marlago has a 35'. I think Scarab has one also. http://www.contender.com/fleet_31F.asp The ultimate fisharound: http://www.pelagicboats.com/ |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: The ultimate fisharound: http://www.pelagicboats.com/ Yes, indeed. I saw an article on that boat sometime last year, and I thought...at last, an offshore walkwaround. If I were moving back to Florida, though, I'd probably conentrate on inshore fishing, mainly in the ICW, where the ideal fishing boat is a 19' Carolina Skiff and a 100 hp four stroie, with a good salt water trolling motor at the bow. Lots of species, lots of fish, lots of different ways to fish, and you really don't have to worry much about chop. Light tackle fishing is the way to go. Fuel costs are a lot less too. There are a lot of good "bay boats" on the market now that are dual purpose. Down here, you almost need two boats though. One to run offshore, and one to run the shallows. I have a 25' Outrage Cuddy for offshore and a 17' Outrage for backwater and nearshore. When the Tarpon and Snook are on the beaches in Spring and early summer, I use the 17'. The 17' Outrage isn't really a good backwater boat (drafts too much), but I bought it before the 25' and I like it too much to sell. It's one boat that I'll probably repower 2 or 3 times and never sell. I'm thinking of adding Lenco trolling tabs to it so that I can fish the mangroves easier when the water is too rough to go offshore. |
On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:12:06 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0500, "NOYB" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound - I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list. I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as versatile as the Fisharound. Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! The cabin area is very nice too - surprising how much room it has. I always thought the forward cuddy was a great idea. Mako built one for a few years as did Boston Whaler, but Contender was about the only one who actually kept one in the line. Pursuit had one too. Yellowfin has a 34' and Marlago has a 35'. I think Scarab has one also. Pursuit has one in a 26' - we looked at that one. I didn't know about the Yellowfin - ain't never heard tell about Marlago. I think you get up into 35' for a CC, that's a little large. The other Contender was a handful sometimes for a CC and that was 31' +/-. I've seen the Scarab's - didn't like them all that much. I'm not to impressed with the Fountain's either. Later, Tom |
On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:28:16 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message ... "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0500, "NOYB" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message om... But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound - I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list. I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as versatile as the Fisharound. Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! The cabin area is very nice too - surprising how much room it has. I always thought the forward cuddy was a great idea. Mako built one for a few years as did Boston Whaler, but Contender was about the only one who actually kept one in the line. Pursuit had one too. Yellowfin has a 34' and Marlago has a 35'. I think Scarab has one also. http://www.contender.com/fleet_31F.asp The ultimate fisharound: http://www.pelagicboats.com/ Too big. Although its a neat concept. Later, Tom |
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 18:35:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: NOYB wrote: The ultimate fisharound: http://www.pelagicboats.com/ Yes, indeed. I saw an article on that boat sometime last year, and I thought...at last, an offshore walkwaround. If I were moving back to Florida, though, I'd probably conentrate on inshore fishing, mainly in the ICW, where the ideal fishing boat is a 19' Carolina Skiff and a 100 hp four stroie, with a good salt water trolling motor at the bow. Lots of species, lots of fish, lots of different ways to fish, and you really don't have to worry much about chop. Light tackle fishing is the way to go. My Ranger would be perfect for that. I'll let you have it cheap. :) Later, Tom |
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:35:10 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! =============================================== Big difference between a GB and a Silverbayarver... Personally I still miss my Bertram 33 but I'll get over it. |
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 18:21:02 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: NOYB wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0500, "NOYB" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message m... But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound - I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list. I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as versatile as the Fisharound. Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! The cabin area is very nice too - surprising how much room it has. I always thought the forward cuddy was a great idea. Mako built one for a few years as did Boston Whaler, but Contender was about the only one who actually kept one in the line. Pursuit had one too. Yellowfin has a 34' and Marlago has a 35'. I think Scarab has one also. Just to get back to the topic in the header, I took a look at the 260 Defiance, and find it nothing like our Parker. The Defiance has a euro transom, is narrower, is ugly (Parkers are homely, not ugly), and resembles a camper inside. But it is an okay boat. I don't know about "ugly" - it's a strange looking boat. It's that bow that makes it look so weird. As to the transom, that Euro swale looks nice on some boats, but I agree, it's WAY over used in some designs. Did you look at the interior layout? Interesting design. I'm not convinced how practical it would be for a fishing boat. Later, Tom |
On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:14:08 -0500, "NOYB" wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: wrote in message oups.com... NOYB wrote: I paid $14,900 (taxes, rigging included) for a 250 Suzuki. The trailer is probably $3500. That means they're selling that boat for almost $65k. That seems like a lot of money for a 26' boat. ********** It's a lot of money, but it's not out of whack with comparable offerings. In fact, just try to find anything except an open runabout for less than $50k in a new boat. Hard to do. I just happened across an ad for an eight year old Grady White, 26', with an asking price of $47,000. I paid $18k for my boat. I got 150 hours out of the original motor before I blew the powerhead. I repowered with the Suzuki, and now have a brand new motor pushing a very solid, functional 25' (center console with forward cuddy) for $33k. I just can't see shelling out another $40-50 for the same boat new. I'm glad there are people willing to buy new...'cause it sure makes it nice when I can buy it cheap *after* all of the depreciation. Darn, and I was going to offer you my Parker for $60,000. That's not a bad price, but I'm waiting for Shortwave Sportfishing to offer to sell me his Contender 31' Fisharound for $60k. ;-) HAH!!! Maybe in 25 years, you can buy it from my estate for that. :) Later, Tom |
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:07:04 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:35:10 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! =============================================== Big difference between a GB and a Silverbayarver... Personally I still miss my Bertram 33 but I'll get over it. Well, it's a long story, but the short of it is that "we" needed to have a boat which "we" could use for short trips to the Islands. "We" really needed something with more creature comforts for those trips than was provided by the Contender CC. So "we" wanted to sell "our" boat and purchase something like "that boat over there" which was a Silverton something or other. Or "that boat over there" which was a Grand Banks. I convinced her to go with this as she's not much of a First Mate on fishing expeditions. So now "our" boat has morphed back into "my" boat upon which she will occasionally deign to grace with her presence. As long as she get's to go to the Islands, she's fine. :) Later, Tom |
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:18:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: As long as she get's to go to the Islands, she's fine. :) ====================================== I hear you. The Bertram 33 started out as "her" boat also but I came to like it a lot. Originally I was looking for a 31 which is quite a bit lighter and faster. "She" wanted a "real" boat however. Getting to the islands is nice, and the fishing is darn good out there. Around Marthas Vineyard and Cutty Hunk there are places where the fish practically jump into your boat. |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:11:12 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:18:42 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: As long as she get's to go to the Islands, she's fine. :) ====================================== I hear you. The Bertram 33 started out as "her" boat also but I came to like it a lot. Originally I was looking for a 31 which is quite a bit lighter and faster. "She" wanted a "real" boat however. Getting to the islands is nice, and the fishing is darn good out there. Around Marthas Vineyard and Cutty Hunk there are places where the fish practically jump into your boat. Tell me about it. :) Later, Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! Now you've done it. Next thing you know, she'll be buying her own boat. Congrats on the new ride. Eisboch |
After I looked at both the Parker and Defiance, I couldn't decide which to
buy, so I bought them both. I was also looking at the 260 compared to the 360, each had their own benefits and I really couldn't decide, so I bought them both. I got a good deal though, the single sales rep who called me at home every day until I made my decision, well he gave me $100.00 off the manufactures suggested retail price and the offer only stood until the end of that day so I had to act fast,, I did and saved a hundred bucks. My mamma didn't raise no fool,,, Nope,,, if she could only look at me now,, from her chair over there on the east/west coast of Florida,, ya, she be a big woman,, "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 16:28:20 -0500, "NOYB" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message m... But the sheer amount of money it took to buy the 31 Fisharound - I *love* that boat, Tom. That one's on my wish list. I bought a 25' center console with forward cuddy. I like it because helm the helm is further aft than in the walkarounds, and I can fish a lot of people over the sides without a windshield in the way. However, it's not as versatile as the Fisharound. Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! The cabin area is very nice too - surprising how much room it has. I always thought the forward cuddy was a great idea. Mako built one for a few years as did Boston Whaler, but Contender was about the only one who actually kept one in the line. Pursuit had one too. Yellowfin has a 34' and Marlago has a 35'. I think Scarab has one also. Just to get back to the topic in the header, I took a look at the 260 Defiance, and find it nothing like our Parker. The Defiance has a euro transom, is narrower, is ugly (Parkers are homely, not ugly), and resembles a camper inside. But it is an okay boat. |
On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 07:10:30 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . Thanks - I like it a lot. It's a compromise - my wife wanted something like a Grand Banks or Silverton. EEWWWWWW!!!! Now you've done it. Next thing you know, she'll be buying her own boat. Not likely. Although she's has making noises about a new car. Congrats on the new ride. I'm looking forward to it. How's the weather down there? Catch anything off that Scout yet? Later, Tom |
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... How's the weather down there? Catch anything off that Scout yet? Later, Tom For some reason the weather has not been as warm and sunny as my recollection of the last couple of winters down here. It's not really cold, but it seems everyday is mostly cloudy with temps in the 60's to low 70's with nights around 50 degrees or less. I know that sounds picky for those surviving the winter up north, but I like 80+ degrees with lots of sunshine. Of course, it *is* early February. Sad to say, I still have not used the Scout. I had it waxed and detailed, but it is still sitting in the rack storage with 5 hours on the engine. I've decided to put it up for sale because I don't really think I'll use it much down here. I've come to realize that we enjoy the comfort features of the bigger boats - comes with age I guess - and I still have the Boston Whaler Dauntless up there if I get the itch to bang around in a little boat. I am actually looking forward to heading north again and getting the Navigator and Mrs. E's GB in the water, so we may be leaving here late March or early April. Catch you later, Eisboch |
Hey Smith.......
Your post was #35 in this thread. The first 34 were either discussing the merits of the boat, or similar boats, and were civilized boating related exchanges. That's almost a recent record for our sorry NG. Even Harry stayed on topic. You then wade in and want to make a personal issue out of things. Ever see one of these boats? Know a damn thing about their construction except what you're guesstimating? Why did you feel compelled to try and take a boating related thread into the crapper? Face it, the only discussions you are comfortable participating in are those where you are attacking somebody. That's the extent of your actual expertise. There are a number of specific benefits to the infusion method, properly done. There are some weaknesses in roller lamination when improperly done. I'd go through them with you but what would be the point? You don't give a schlitz about vacuum infusion vs. roller lamination. You merely seek a vehicle to make negative personal remarks. You're so insecure in your "knowledge" that you cannot compare or contrast your opinions with those of others without also disparaging the motives of the people holding opinions diverse from your own. When was the last time you started a boating related thread, or made a "positive" remark about anybody or any thing? ("I'm positive Gould is a socialist spammer, Krause is a lying windbag," etc, doesn't count). You lay about in the shadows, saying nothing until its time once again to feed your appetite for insult and mayhem. You then descend on your sticky little web, with all eight legs flaily wildly, and begin injecting poison into all you survey. Why not make a positive contribution for a change? Do you lack the ability, or merely the desire? |
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Speaking of the difference, I've often wondered if they use different
resins in vacuum molds. In the roller method, the epoxies are fairly stiff (usually due to the "induction" time in which the catalyst acts on the resin), but it would seem to me to achieve proper penetration of the glass in a vacuum system, the liquids would be fairly light. Yes/No? *************** I was invited to the 25th Anniversary celebration of a local manufacturer, Nordic Tug. They had a few hundred people in attendance, from all across the country, and almost all were Nordic Tug owners. Impressive turnout during one of our rare snowy days and in the middle of January, but it was like the gathering of an enthusiastic clan. I digress.... Nordic had a number of vessels on display in all stages of build and fitout. Nordic had set up a demonstration of vacuum bag, or infusion molding, in the laminate shop. We observed the molding of a cabin top. The gelcoated mold gets one layer of vinylester resin prior to the layup. This is to prevent "shrinkage" which could spoil the exterior appearance of the finished component. The glass mat and coring materials are then laid in place. For the cabintop, Nordic uses three different weights of mat in the layup and I would need to dig out my notes to be specific as to how many ounces each fabric is rated. Many of the superstructural components in a Nordic are cored, and a combination of serrated balsa as well as synthetic coring materials are used in the buildup. All coring material is designed to allow resin to flow throughout the layer, vastly reducing any liklihood of a future separation between the FRP and the core. There is a difference in the layup process when preparing for infusion molding. There are certain materials included that promote the flow of resin throughout the layup and the entire process is conducted with an emphasis upon assuring a maximum, thorough wet out. It isn't just the same layup one would use with roller laminating and then vaccum infused. Once the layup is completed, a plastic sheet (vacuum bag) is placed over the mold and some plastic tubed "plumbing" installed to remove the air from the bag and create a vacuum. When the vaccum has been estabished, the technician uses an electronic sensing device to check the perimeter and the central vacuum connections for any leaks. After the integrity of the vaccum is assured, the infusion begins. Nordic uses vinylester resin. The technician explained to us that a number of factors are considered when adding the catalyst to the resin, including ambient temperature, of course. The resin itself was heated to a controlled temperature, (about 70-degrees), and then the catalyst was added. It would be hard for me to compare the density of the infusion method resin with what the density might have been in a roller lamination- but I have no doubt that the mixture was calculated to be optimal for infusion molding. A valve was opened to allow the mixture to flow into the mold, and during the minutes required for the dark colored resin to spread throughout the mold the technician was constantly monitoring the flow and spread of the liquid. The greater atmospheric pressure outside the bag helped press and squeeze the resin into the mat. Nordic has been infusion molding cabin parts for some time now, and has become so confident in the process that beginning in March or April they will begin vacuum bagging their hulls as well. When you put a ten year hull warranty on a million dollar boat (some of the larger models are now well over the 7-figure mark), you want to be sure the technology is first rate. There are some potential advantages, in my opinion. For instance, the assurance of a "wet" layup. I suspect that in many of the traditional "hand laminate" processes there are gaps at lunch times, shift changes, etc where an underlying layer of glass is allowed to cure just a bit more than desirable before the next layer is applied....possible source for future delam. There is less opportunity for dirt, dust, etc to find its way into the laminate and that can additionally help reduce the liklihood of eventual blistering. The use of chopped strand to build up thickness is inconsistent with vacuum bag molding. Opinons from OZ not withstanding, there is no reason to assume that infusion molding will always be done poorly and traditional roller laminating always done well. I'd be happy with a well built boat constructed through either process. |
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Our Ms. Smith wrote:
All syn coring materials are closed cell, the resin is NOT intended to "saturate" the core other than the outer surfaces where hopefully the glass skins will be properly bonded. ************ That is correct. The coring materials do have grooves, depressions, kerfs, etc to increase the amount of the surface area exposed to resin. If you take a hole saw to a cored layup and examine the plug, you will see resin within the core layer (in the channels and passages where it is supposed to be). Resin can flow laterally across the core. Next, speaking about the various layers of mat used in infusion molding compared to roller lamination, Ms. Smith observed: It can't be the "same" because normal cloth & mat won't flow the resins freely enough, the problem which you unwittingly admit is that uniform wetout is an issue & excess resin in glass is almost as damaging the finished laminate as not enough resin ******************** So then it is your opinion that vacuum bag molding can *never* be done correctly because it has to be differently from other methods? If everybody thought that way, we wouldn't even have fiberglass boats- let alone be arguing about laminate methods. * None of her points beyond here were expressed without personal insult, so I'll not dignify any of them with a reply. |
wrote in message oups.com... Our Ms. Smith wrote: All syn coring materials are closed cell, the resin is NOT intended to "saturate" the core other than the outer surfaces where hopefully the glass skins will be properly bonded. ************ That is correct. The coring materials do have grooves, depressions, kerfs, etc to increase the amount of the surface area exposed to resin. If you take a hole saw to a cored layup and examine the plug, you will see resin within the core layer (in the channels and passages where it is supposed to be). Resin can flow laterally across the core. Next, speaking about the various layers of mat used in infusion molding compared to roller lamination, Ms. Smith observed: It can't be the "same" because normal cloth & mat won't flow the resins freely enough, the problem which you unwittingly admit is that uniform wetout is an issue & excess resin in glass is almost as damaging the finished laminate as not enough resin ******************** So then it is your opinion that vacuum bag molding can *never* be done correctly because it has to be differently from other methods? If everybody thought that way, we wouldn't even have fiberglass boats- let alone be arguing about laminate methods. * None of her points beyond here were expressed without personal insult, so I'll not dignify any of them with a reply. Postings with personal insults? Something you are getting quite good at lately Chuck, sometimes reaching as low as one would expect from a 2nd grader, certainly not from an adult as you say you are. |
Hurtwit the hypocrite remarked:
Postings with personal insults? Something you are getting quite good at lately Chuck, sometimes reaching as low as one would expect from a 2nd grader, certainly not from an adult as you say you are. *********** I've been taking lessons from an asshole in Ohio. The half-witted SOB never posts a line without attacking somebody, and then runs crying about his hurt feelings whenever anybody says "boo" back at him. My little sister used to act the same way, before she grew out of it. Come to think of it, Jim, you live in Ohio too! On the off chance that you run into the asshole I'm referring to, give him my regards, OK? I've got to go clear the hundred dollar bills from the front porch, they're beginning to blow around the neighborhood and folks will certainly complain. |
wrote in message ups.com... Hurtwit the hypocrite remarked: Postings with personal insults? Something you are getting quite good at lately Chuck, sometimes reaching as low as one would expect from a 2nd grader, certainly not from an adult as you say you are. *********** I've been taking lessons from an asshole in Ohio. The half-witted SOB never posts a line without attacking somebody, and then runs crying about his hurt feelings whenever anybody says "boo" back at him. My little sister used to act the same way, before she grew out of it. Come to think of it, Jim, you live in Ohio too! On the off chance that you run into the asshole I'm referring to, give him my regards, OK? I've got to go clear the hundred dollar bills from the front porch, they're beginning to blow around the neighborhood and folks will certainly complain. Grow up Chucky. And give it up already because you are looking quite the fool and whiner. |
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Smith wrote:
So again Chuckles you try to cover your BS?? The core is not intended to be saturated with resin?? If it is knifed or shaped that is usually so it can more easily take on the required compound shapes required & has naught to do with trying to get resin "inside" the core itself. Honestly Chuckles you were clearly more at home selling used cars than coming here with this marketing BS, it won't fly:-) ********** Once again, according to the laminate shop foreman for a major manufacturer, you're wrong. Any flexible material could be used for coring without having to cut grooves, depessions, etc through or into the body of the material. Tell me, do they need to cut grooves or "egg craters" in to glass mat down in OZ? Maybe you'd like to explain how half inch blasa coring with a saw kerf every inch is going to conform to much of a curve? How do they manage to keep the resin out of these indents, cuts, and depresssions in the southern hemisphere, and why would that be a good thing? The irregular surfaces certainly assist in binding the core to the laminate. What a burden it must be for you to have to go through life knowing every thing about every subject, considering your own opinion to unassailable fact, and unable to discuss anything without a personal attack for emphasis. If you were half the pro you pretend to be, you would discuss technical issues in a professional manner. If you were even half the half pro you pretend to be, you could manage to make a post without spending 10-15 minutes typing out a long attack on another poster (usually not even involved in the discussion) at the bottom of every message. |
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