This google c**p doesnt let me reply to my old post so I am quoting it
below.

My follow up question is (Karen?):

How does the oil go in the cylinders? When its pumped to the bearings
doesnt it more or less get splashed around while the rods/crank move?
Then wouldnt it end up on the crankcase walls and simply run down and
pool up somewhere?

To get burned it would have to be "misted" so it can get sucked into
the cylinders?

Whats happening in there?

Matt


Matt Lang wrote:
Folks,

I was wondering where the oil goes that the DFI motor pumps to the
crankbearings. Does it accumulate in the crankcase and eventually
gets dragged in the cylinders and burned? Is this the oil the DFI
motor burns as it has no oil in the fuel itself? I couldnt find info
about this in my optimax shopmanual ..

Karen maybe you know this?

Matt

Yes; just as you know who says:-) it's supposed to be "burnt".
It is
injected in such small amounts at idle that it doesn't really go
anywhere at idle, till you rev up then any excess gets "transferred" &
probably some does actually get burnt.

However, because it's undiluted raw oil, a good part of it goes
straight out the exhaust port still as raw oil.

So when people comment about the absence of "smoke" from the
DFIs
that's true, because the oil isn't diluted with fuel.

You've probably noticed it's a bit oily around it's nether
regions:-)

K

2 strokes pressurize the crankcase on the down stroke as part of the
induction system. The air you ingest into the cylinders goes through the
crankcase.
Bill

wrote in message
oups.com...
This google c**p doesnt let me reply to my old post so I am quoting it
below.

My follow up question is (Karen?):

How does the oil go in the cylinders? When its pumped to the bearings
doesnt it more or less get splashed around while the rods/crank move?
Then wouldnt it end up on the crankcase walls and simply run down and
pool up somewhere?

To get burned it would have to be "misted" so it can get sucked into
the cylinders?

Whats happening in there?

Matt


Matt Lang wrote:
Folks,

I was wondering where the oil goes that the DFI motor pumps to the
crankbearings. Does it accumulate in the crankcase and eventually
gets dragged in the cylinders and burned? Is this the oil the DFI
motor burns as it has no oil in the fuel itself? I couldnt find info
about this in my optimax shopmanual ..

Karen maybe you know this?

Matt

Yes; just as you know who says:-) it's supposed to be "burnt".
It is
injected in such small amounts at idle that it doesn't really go
anywhere at idle, till you rev up then any excess gets "transferred" &
probably some does actually get burnt.

However, because it's undiluted raw oil, a good part of it goes
straight out the exhaust port still as raw oil.

So when people comment about the absence of "smoke" from the
DFIs
that's true, because the oil isn't diluted with fuel.

You've probably noticed it's a bit oily around it's nether
regions:-)

K

yes but the oil is just pumped in there, not vaporized. How does the
air pick it up to carry it in the cylinders?

If it doesnt get all the oil, does it just pool there until it runs
into the lowest cylinder?

Matt

wrote in message
oups.com...
yes but the oil is just pumped in there, not vaporized. How does the
air pick it up to carry it in the cylinders?

If it doesnt get all the oil, does it just pool there until it runs
into the lowest cylinder?

Matt


In the later FICHT and E-TEC engines the pressurized oil is injected to
each cylinder where it hits the side of the pistons. High speed photography
taken inside of the crankcase, shows the oil being "blown" into a fine mist
from the moving internal parts. The motors also have recirculation systems
to distribute any "pooling" oil in a crankcase. At idle, very little oil is
needed and the usage is determined by the computer with inputs of rpm,
throttle opening, throttle acceleration, engine temp, etc.

Both the FICHT and the E-TEC completely consume any oil in the combustion
chamber and that is included in its EPA emission testing results. The E-TEC
has fewer total emissions than any current EFI 4-stroke outboard. It is
California 3-star rated as an ultra-low emission engine. It also meets the
2007 European Emission requirements that no 4-stroke meets at this time.

Bill Grannis
service manager

wrote:
yes but the oil is just pumped in there, not vaporized. How does the
air pick it up to carry it in the cylinders?

If it doesnt get all the oil, does it just pool there until it runs
into the lowest cylinder?

Matt


As Cal Bill says (not the other Bill, hi Bill:-)), once it builds to
any extent as soon as the engine is revved up it gets blown through with
the transfer of air, there isn't much spare room in the crankcase cavity
it's all a very close fit.

It doesn't just pool to the lowest cyl because each cyl's crankcase
cavity is sealed from any others. (otherwise the pressure caused would
just flow from a descending piston to an ascending piston.

The "problem" is that unlike a normal 2 stroke the oil is just raw oil
& the very small amounts involved at low revs just hang around in there,
getting overly hot. The overly hot oil bakes behind rings etc just
aggravating an already bad situation.

The proof is that Ficht had to "recommend" a special high temp tolerant
oil (read vege oil:-)) & as if needed to confirm it even more E-Tec has
used "special" high melting point alloy in it's pistons!!!

Needless to say normal aluminium melts well over 1000F & petrol will
auto ignite at any temp over 4-500F, so detonation is clearly what they
know all about & instead of trying to solve the real cause they're just
"trying" to make the pistons strong enough to survive detonation (& the
related extreme temp rise) long enough that they will have a reduced
failure rate, such that they can sell a few more till the public wakes up.

Although given the name change with the deletion of all reference to
Ficht??? & latest round of dealer brain washing (read above, hi again
Bill:-)) I think the public will be well onto them this time, certainly
I'll be doing my small bit every chance I get:-).

Other matter, assuming you have access to a computer that you can
configure a little & you can download (free) any of the good newsreader
programs, go to this site;

http://news.individual.net/

register & they'll email you a login & password back then you can access
NGs fully. It's a great server because appart from being free:-) most
every other server downloads to/from it. I'm not too computer literate
but will help if I can, even so some others in this NG are well across
this computer stuff & I'm sure will be only too happy to help you set it up.


K

The Krause lie of the day???

The liar Krause works for Ullico the union Co that tries to take
money from honest hard working unionists then direct it to "union"
decided projects, so this lie is him admitting how a union organisation
was actually funding a political campaign, illegal?? you ask, yeah me
too but hey we know how much he hates Bush. Ullico has a history in this
also as you'll see in subsequent Krause lies.


I'm doing my part to ease unemployment. I'm hiring another writer
for my staff. Will be putting the ad on MONSTER.COM and in the Wash Post.

I need more staff because 2004 is a major election year and business

booked to date indicates we'll be drowning in work. We need to hire a
production coordinator, too. It has very little to do with the state
of the
economy, other than using it as reason to defeat Republicrap candidates.


Is this just another Krause lie??? well probably like all the
others:-) but imagine if it's actually true???? Knowing that he has no
"business" of his own just as he has no boat of his own, but he works
for Ullico which is supposed to be a not for profit looking out for
genuine unionists?????



We have first-class benefits, including a top-of-the-line health
insurance plan, a non-contributory defined-benefit pension plan, a 401k,
and a life insurance policy equal to annual salary. We contribute a
share of profits to the 401k on behalf of the employee. Our employees
pay $4.50 for generic prescriptions and $8.00 for non-generics, but
that's going up next year to $10 and $15. New employees get two weeks
vacation the first year, and that goes to three weeks the third year. In
addition, we have 12 paid holidays and we shut down from noon on
Christmas eve to the day after New Year's Day. We also provide 20 days
of paid sick leave a year. And we have an outside company administering
pre-tax flexible bennies for our employees.
Our fringe benefit package follows the trade union model, except, of
course, for the profit contributions to 401k's. Trade unions are
not-for-profit enterprises.
How do these compare to the bennies at your shop?


Clearly if there is any truth to this then it's the pay & conditions
Krause gets from his employer Ullico & probably socialists being
socialists they pay all the employees the same!!! So here we have hard
working unionists being levied by their unions, who give the money to
the likes of Ullico who then pay their uneducated lying staff such as
Krause as per his own claims in his own words above, this is sad in the
extreme.

If you are in a union better start asking questions big time it's
your retirement they're ****ing against the wall, by paying themselves;

Even some in the NG found this lie over the top & said so;


Paid? Every year? I call "bull****". With 3 weeks vacation, 12 paid
holidays, and 20 paid sick days that's 47 *paid* days off every
year. Are they hourly employees? For a "small business", that's the road to
bankruptcy.



Boy...and you had me going there for a minute.


Even after that!!! not our lying Krause he just continues with the
previous line that his employer is putting big bucks into a political
campaign, how so??? they're a not for profit with tax concessions to
boot!!! it's illegal!!! send in the Feds!!! simple as that & remember
all you unionists it's "your" money they're
spending without your knowledge much less permission on "their"
political campaign!!!

So lying Krause continues & adds even more insight into what
happens to "your" money when it goes to the unions:-);

Not quite so simple, though you are trying hard to make it so. Our
business is up because we're on the cusp of an election year. Our
business always goes up in a major election year.
You could say we're going to be doing very well in 2004 because Bush is
such a total failure.
The 20 paid sick days aren't part of the "paid" days off unless those
days are used. None of our people abuses sick leave. In fact, no one as
yet has even come close to using 20 sick days in one year. They're there
in case they're needed.
Oh, I forgot. We also provide everyone with LTD.
The company provides an insurance plan that pays 50% of an employe's
salary for Long Term Disability. Employes have the option of purchasing
an additional 16.66%, bringing their total to 66.66%. The basic benefit
maximum is $4,000 per month. With the buy up, the limit is increased to
$10,000 per month.



In this case I suggest Krause just admits it's another of his lies
before any of his little socialist mates get nailed????

As Cal Bill says (not the other Bill, hi Bill:-)), once it builds to

any extent as soon as the engine is revved up it gets blown through
with
the transfer of air, there isn't much spare room in the crankcase
cavity
it's all a very close fit.

Ok

The "problem" is that unlike a normal 2 stroke the oil is just raw
oil
& the very small amounts involved at low revs just hang around in
there,
getting overly hot. The overly hot oil bakes behind rings etc just
aggravating an already bad situation.

Doesnt sound good ... is this worse at idle or WOT?
Can one spray anyhing in the air intake to remove this buildup?


The proof is that Ficht had to "recommend" a special high temp
tolerant
oil (read vege oil:-)) & as if needed to confirm it even more E-Tec
has
used "special" high melting point alloy in it's pistons!!!

Veggie oil? Good for the fish

Merc is really obsessed that you shold only use their DFI oil. Of
course one part is that it is like like liquid gold to them.

Theu claim it is because it gets recirculated, which I find quiet the
exaggeration... The only thing it does it flows through the comprssor
and THEN throough the top crank bearing ... I wonder how this is
recirculation and why home depot oil would have a problem with that...

Maybe the real reason foit the DFI oil is the temperature resistance?
Opinions?

They dont want you to use even the best pure syntethic oil ... wonder
why. Just to make money of their oil?





Needless to say normal aluminium melts well over 1000F & petrol will

auto ignite at any temp over 4-500F, so detonation is clearly what
they
know all about & instead of trying to solve the real cause they're
just
"trying" to make the pistons strong enough to survive detonation (&
the
related extreme temp rise) long enough that they will have a reduced
failure rate, such that they can sell a few more till the public
wakes up.

In all fairness I have to say that the DFI motors that are on the
market seem to be holding up well

Thing is I would get a 4 stroke but for a jetdrive there is just no
option to a 2 stroke. And it a lot of fun


Other matter, assuming you have access to a computer that you can
configure a little & you can download (free) any of the good
newsreader
programs, go to this site;

http://news.individual.net/

YEah willlook into it but then i cant post from work (during lunch) and
the news readers i had used SUCKED worse than google


K

The Krause lie of the day???

I take it, you dont like Harry?

wrote:
As Cal Bill says (not the other Bill, hi Bill:-)), once it builds to


any extent as soon as the engine is revved up it gets blown through

with

the transfer of air, there isn't much spare room in the crankcase

cavity

it's all a very close fit.


Ok


The "problem" is that unlike a normal 2 stroke the oil is just raw

oil

& the very small amounts involved at low revs just hang around in

there,

getting overly hot. The overly hot oil bakes behind rings etc just
aggravating an already bad situation.


Doesnt sound good ... is this worse at idle or WOT?
Can one spray anyhing in the air intake to remove this buildup?


To a certain extent oil baking happens in normal 2 strokes, even with
the proper approved oils & being diluted with fuel. There are several
sprays or put in the fuel things you can buy that do try to clean the
baked deposits away, some swear by them (the sellers????:-)) others
shrug their shoulders. Even if indeed they do actually work in a normal
2 stroke, I can't see how they would have any effect in a DFI because
the problem is below in the just air flow crankcase(s).



The proof is that Ficht had to "recommend" a special high temp

tolerant

oil (read vege oil:-)) & as if needed to confirm it even more E-Tec

has

used "special" high melting point alloy in it's pistons!!!


Veggie oil? Good for the fish

I was being a bit flippant there, but vege based oils take high temps
much better than mineral based.


Merc is really obsessed that you shold only use their DFI oil. Of
course one part is that it is like like liquid gold to them.

The problem as I see it is there is no published standard for DFI oils.
With normal 2 strokes the manufacturers say use oil compliant with a
certain standard (say tcw-3). So all the endless fights about name
branded oil etc are just more BS from the dealers selling it at over the
top prices.

They're not lying as such more just repeating untruths they've been fed
at so called dealer "tech" training:-)

With the DFIs though there is probably some actual reason to use the
"special" oil because there is a "special" problem they're trying to
mitigate against, without actually admitting it even exists much less
that they're well aware of the design defect in the engines they sell.




Theu claim it is because it gets recirculated, which I find quiet the
exaggeration... The only thing it does it flows through the comprssor
and THEN throough the top crank bearing ... I wonder how this is
recirculation and why home depot oil would have a problem with that...

Maybe the real reason foit the DFI oil is the temperature resistance?
Opinions?

They dont want you to use even the best pure syntethic oil ... wonder
why. Just to make money of their oil?


"Recirculated" is code for it hangs around. i.e. it isn't burnt as it's
injected not till the engine is at higher revs. It does mean the oil can
take in more heat, but also lean mixtures even when they don't detonate
(when these engines are in lean mode they're so lean the mixture won't
even support detonation), lean mixtures have a very slow flamefront & so
make all chamber things hotter in general.

All the time remembering that the piston in these engines is almost
totally uncooled, they claim the air flow through the crankcase(s) cools
the piston(s) but this is just more knee jerk answer to a very good
question. "If" that answer is correct then the next question is where
does the heat go then?? up ontop of the piston?? so the piston gets
even hotter as this now preheated air is compressed to make it even
hotter?? then the piston really gets even more heat as the charge is
ignited??? no their answer is just more of the same.

The correct answer for Ficht should have been; gee we don't know,
hadn't really thought about it & do you think that's one of the reasons
some (1 in 5) of our engines lapse into uncontrolled detonation as the
power is suddenly increased & destroys itself??? Wow thanks for the tip
you might have just saved many boaters much grief, saved a US icon Co,
saved 7000 jobs & US$1.3 Billion of union fund retirees money from all
being lost, thanks again.

The answer E-Tec should now give is; Yep we know all about that & have
decided that if we're to remain EPA compliant with a cheap to build high
profit 2 stroke, we will just accept there's a real risk of excessive
piston heat buildup when they operate in lean burn mode. However we have
managed to find a brand new never before known to engine technology
aluminium alloy that we are hoping will be strong enough to survive the
extreme heat caused when the detonation does occur.



Needless to say normal aluminium melts well over 1000F & petrol will


auto ignite at any temp over 4-500F, so detonation is clearly what

they

know all about & instead of trying to solve the real cause they're

just

"trying" to make the pistons strong enough to survive detonation (&

the

related extreme temp rise) long enough that they will have a reduced
failure rate, such that they can sell a few more till the public

wakes up.

In all fairness I have to say that the DFI motors that are on the
market seem to be holding up well

Where are they?? seriously??? other than the occasional dealer "demo"
(code=couldn't sell nor give it away) boat there are very few you see in
regular service. Used to be lots of people with them when the dealers
were all pushing them really hard (& why not turned out in court they
were making a 30% kickback on them!!!) but these days??????

Very few Fichts, more Optimaxes but they're still being sold.

I'm cheeky if nothing else & say a good 80%+ of Fichts didn't last 5
years (that's the other 4 of the 5:-)) & given the excess price people
paid that's really scary on a $ cost per boat outing basis.

Anyone who again believes the very same dealers who lied before &
actually pays money for an E-Tec is either new to boating or related to
the dealer, at least I hope they are for they'll need all the support
they can get:-)

Thing is I would get a 4 stroke but for a jetdrive there is just no
option to a 2 stroke. And it a lot of fun

Yes agreed & if you take care of the Opti you should be OK because it's
a "jet". The time they can get loaded up while still in lean mode is
when they're on a fixed pitch propeller boat with a high top speed ie
lots of propeller pitch. When this type of setup is then used for long
periods in a say no wake zones the boat is usually ploughing along nose
high & at lowish revs while still lean, this is when the heat can really
buildup in the piston (the rest of the chamber stays cool via the
endless supply of seawater). Once the boat clears the no wake zone the
usr invariably opens it right up to blast away & it's then with the
sudden change from lean mode into make full power & full rich mixture
that the deadly combination occurs, lots of fuel plenty of fire, an
overly hot auto ignition source inside the chamber (really hot piston) &
very poor fuel atomisation because the injection pressure is just plain
too low.

In these premises I suggest the E-Tecs will go into detonation exactly
the same, it's just that they're hoping the new super duper strong
pistons can hang together long enough, till either the usr pulls back &
settles to cruise or the chamber self cools because there is now lots of
fuel around because of the normal mixture, it's still a lottery. A
lottery none of the big engine makers will even buy a ticket in....
why????? Well gee they knew what was going to happen with Ficht & I say
they know about this latest consumer funded experiment also.

Good news for you is that a jet doesn't load the engine the same way,
the only time the jet can load the engine up is at max power, anything
below & the load is very much removed from the engine, you'll see this
in your throttle position 1/2 throttle is lots of revs but not much
power (speed) so cared for you should be confident.


Other matter, assuming you have access to a computer that you can
configure a little & you can download (free) any of the good

newsreader

programs, go to this site;

http://news.individual.net/


YEah willlook into it but then i cant post from work (during lunch) and
the news readers i had used SUCKED worse than google

There is one called thunderbird from the mozilla people, some here use
it & really like it, it's the mail use part of the full mozilla which I
still use.



K

The Krause lie of the day???


I take it, you dont like Harry?

Na nor he me so it's all pretty fair in that regard:-)

Sorry if it offends you & in deference to you I'll keep today's Krause
lie to one of his shorter ones, but hey someone has to stand up to him:-)


K

& Krause's lie of the day is:

Other than what he's picked up here over the years this liar clearly
doesn't & never has owned a boat & certainly never done any real
boating, yet he insults all the NG real boaters with lies like this;

Have you ever sailed from San Francisco to Hawaii? I have.
Have you ever rounded Cape Horn? I have, twice.
Have you ever transited the Panama Canal? I have.
Have you owned more than 20 boats in your lifetime? I have.
Have you ever sailed large boats competitively? I have.
Have you ever been hundreds of miles from land in a powerboat
under your command? I have.

wrote in message
ups.com...

karen said


Other matter, assuming you have access to a computer that you can
configure a little & you can download (free) any of the good
newsreader
programs, go to this site;

http://news.individual.net/

YEah willlook into it but then i cant post from work (during lunch)
and
the news readers i had used SUCKED worse than google

Get Thunderbird. It is a free download. If the pointy haired boss
won't let you install on the boss man's machine, you can read news with
outlook or outlook express. Pretty much every windows machine has one
of those.

del cecchi

No comment on the DFI Theories.

Doesnt sound good ... is this worse at idle or WOT?
Can one spray anyhing in the air intake to remove this buildup?


To a certain extent oil baking happens in normal 2 strokes, even
with
the proper approved oils & being diluted with fuel. There are several

sprays or put in the fuel things you can buy that do try to clean the

baked deposits away, some swear by them (the sellers????:-)) others
shrug their shoulders. Even if indeed they do actually work in a
normal
2 stroke, I can't see how they would have any effect in a DFI because

the problem is below in the just air flow crankcase(s).

Fuel additives wont work of course but spraying stuff in the throttle
might ... Still is is maybe something that is better not dont.

Esp. with the optimax it gets in the injectors whatever is in the
cylinders as it uses the comprsssion pressure to pressureize its
airsystem during start up - the reason why fogging the motor will
destroy the injectors.


With the DFIs though there is probably some actual reason to use the

"special" oil because there is a "special" problem they're trying to
mitigate against, without actually admitting it even exists much less

that they're well aware of the design defect in the engines they
sell.

Makes sense .... The silly part is that Merc on their website ALLOWS
the "normal" Premium oil for the optimax. But if asked they strongly
recommend NOT to use it... They dont know what they want...

What I was able to press out of one of their guys is that its ok to use
in an emergency when holding back on the throttle ..

Theu claim it is because it gets recirculated, which I find quiet
the
exaggeration... The only thing it does it flows through the
comprssor
and THEN throough the top crank bearing ... I wonder how this is
recirculation and why home depot oil would have a problem with
that...

Maybe the real reason foit the DFI oil is the temperature
resistance?
Opinions?

They dont want you to use even the best pure syntethic oil ...
wonder
why. Just to make money of their oil?


"Recirculated" is code for it hangs around. i.e. it isn't burnt as
it's
injected not till the engine is at higher revs. It does mean the oil
can
take in more heat, but also lean mixtures even when they don't
detonate
(when these engines are in lean mode they're so lean the mixture
won't
even support detonation), lean mixtures have a very slow flamefront &
so
make all chamber things hotter in general.

Aha .. this definition of recirculation comes closer to the truth

All the time remembering that the piston in these engines is almost
totally uncooled, they claim the air flow through the crankcase(s)
cools
the piston(s) but this is just more knee jerk answer to a very good
question. "If" that answer is correct then the next question is where

does the heat go then?? up ontop of the piston?? so the piston gets
even hotter as this now preheated air is compressed to make it even
hotter?? then the piston really gets even more heat as the charge is
ignited??? no their answer is just more of the same.

Why didnt they spray a little oil at the piston? Might cause oil use
being too high?

I remember the first optimax motors suffered from excessive oil use ..
some people say 1:20 - 1:25 was seen in some motors ... was this oil
cooling?


The answer E-Tec should now give is; Yep we know all about that &
have
decided that if we're to remain EPA compliant with a cheap to build
high
profit 2 stroke, we will just accept there's a real risk of excessive

piston heat buildup when they operate in lean burn mode. However we
have
managed to find a brand new never before known to engine technology
aluminium alloy that we are hoping will be strong enough to survive
the
extreme heat caused when the detonation does occur.

People are praising these things (so far) lets see how it goes ... They
have nice features that hopefully will show up in the 4 strokes, like
no break in no gear ol change due to super duper materials and
tolerances.


Needless to say normal aluminium melts well over 1000F & petrol
will


auto ignite at any temp over 4-500F, so detonation is clearly what

they

know all about & instead of trying to solve the real cause they're

just

"trying" to make the pistons strong enough to survive detonation (&

To be fair: IF the problem is gone then we dont care how ... IF the
motor holds up to the abuse then let it be detonating away as it
pleases

Maybe you can even get it to diesel and power by turning the ignition
off hahaha


related extreme temp rise) long enough that they will have a
reduced
failure rate, such that they can sell a few more till the public

wakes up.

In all fairness I have to say that the DFI motors that are on the
market seem to be holding up well

Where are they?? seriously??? other than the occasional dealer
"demo"
(code=couldn't sell nor give it away) boat there are very few you see
in
regular service. Used to be lots of people with them when the dealers

were all pushing them really hard (& why not turned out in court they

were making a 30% kickback on them!!!) but these days??????

You are right they are declining and on larger and heavier boats there
is little reason to use one. The only advantage I see is the weight
and better powerdevelopment.

Thing is I would get a 4 stroke but for a jetdrive there is just no
option to a 2 stroke. And it a lot of fun

Yes agreed & if you take care of the Opti you should be OK because
it's
a "jet".

My boat is 19' and weighs 1400 lbs with 200 (2 stroke) HP in it you
have to experience the acceleration


The time they can get loaded up while still in lean mode is

What does "loaded up" refer to? = Heat build up in lean mode?

Do I understand that the "lean mode" is just there for the EPA and the
motor could run with no detonation and be fine but not meet EPA?

when they're on a fixed pitch propeller boat with a high top speed ie

lots of propeller pitch. When this type of setup is then used for
long
periods in a say no wake zones the boat is usually ploughing along
nose
high & at lowish revs while still lean, this is when the heat can
really
buildup in the piston (the rest of the chamber stays cool via the
endless supply of seawater). Once the boat clears the no wake zone
the
usr invariably opens it right up to blast away & it's then with the
sudden change from lean mode into make full power & full rich mixture

that the deadly combination occurs, lots of fuel plenty of fire, an
overly hot auto ignition source inside the chamber (really hot
piston) &
very poor fuel atomisation because the injection pressure is just
plain
too low.

Sadly you have the same problem with a jet In harbors and such you
pretty much idel at speeds of 2-5 mph ... This would be bad as well.

However during normal driving you hardly run the jet under 3000 rpm, in
fact it will not plane below 3600 rpm ....

Is it dafe to say that under these conditions (motor is above 3500) you
will never have hot pistons and problems from detonation?

Also when you idle for along period of time and have your motor hot and
lean you will have NO detonation problems when you accelerate slowly to
let the motor cool?

Is there a defined lean mode at a certain rpm range and then all of a
sudden it runs rich? Or is that a gradual process from lean to almost
normal to normal?

In these premises I suggest the E-Tecs will go into detonation
exactly
the same, it's just that they're hoping the new super duper strong
pistons can hang together long enough, till either the usr pulls back
&
settles to cruise or the chamber self cools because there is now lots
of
fuel around because of the normal mixture, it's still a lottery. A
lottery none of the big engine makers will even buy a ticket in....
why????? Well gee they knew what was going to happen with Ficht & I
say
they know about this latest consumer funded experiment also.

Maybe they have a concept of keeping the motor cool with oil, also not
lielly as the ETEC almost runs dry.


Good news for you is that a jet doesn't load the engine the same
way,
the only time the jet can load the engine up is at max power,
anything
below & the load is very much removed from the engine, you'll see
this
in your throttle position 1/2 throttle is lots of revs but not much
power (speed) so cared for you should be confident.

Why would it load at max power? at WOT it should run extra rich. Wont
that keep it nice and cool?

I take it, you dont like Harry?

Na nor he me so it's all pretty fair in that regard:-)

Sorry if it offends you & in deference to you I'll keep today's
Krause
lie to one of his shorter ones, but hey someone has to stand up to
him:-)

Well ... it may offend Harry (not so much me) but please be nice.


Matt

Thanks , I will look into it

Matt