wrote:
As Cal Bill says (not the other Bill, hi Bill:-)), once it builds to


any extent as soon as the engine is revved up it gets blown through

with

the transfer of air, there isn't much spare room in the crankcase

cavity

it's all a very close fit.


Ok


The "problem" is that unlike a normal 2 stroke the oil is just raw

oil

& the very small amounts involved at low revs just hang around in

there,

getting overly hot. The overly hot oil bakes behind rings etc just
aggravating an already bad situation.


Doesnt sound good ... is this worse at idle or WOT?
Can one spray anyhing in the air intake to remove this buildup?


To a certain extent oil baking happens in normal 2 strokes, even with
the proper approved oils & being diluted with fuel. There are several
sprays or put in the fuel things you can buy that do try to clean the
baked deposits away, some swear by them (the sellers????:-)) others
shrug their shoulders. Even if indeed they do actually work in a normal
2 stroke, I can't see how they would have any effect in a DFI because
the problem is below in the just air flow crankcase(s).



The proof is that Ficht had to "recommend" a special high temp

tolerant

oil (read vege oil:-)) & as if needed to confirm it even more E-Tec

has

used "special" high melting point alloy in it's pistons!!!


Veggie oil? Good for the fish

I was being a bit flippant there, but vege based oils take high temps
much better than mineral based.


Merc is really obsessed that you shold only use their DFI oil. Of
course one part is that it is like like liquid gold to them.

The problem as I see it is there is no published standard for DFI oils.
With normal 2 strokes the manufacturers say use oil compliant with a
certain standard (say tcw-3). So all the endless fights about name
branded oil etc are just more BS from the dealers selling it at over the
top prices.

They're not lying as such more just repeating untruths they've been fed
at so called dealer "tech" training:-)

With the DFIs though there is probably some actual reason to use the
"special" oil because there is a "special" problem they're trying to
mitigate against, without actually admitting it even exists much less
that they're well aware of the design defect in the engines they sell.




Theu claim it is because it gets recirculated, which I find quiet the
exaggeration... The only thing it does it flows through the comprssor
and THEN throough the top crank bearing ... I wonder how this is
recirculation and why home depot oil would have a problem with that...

Maybe the real reason foit the DFI oil is the temperature resistance?
Opinions?

They dont want you to use even the best pure syntethic oil ... wonder
why. Just to make money of their oil?


"Recirculated" is code for it hangs around. i.e. it isn't burnt as it's
injected not till the engine is at higher revs. It does mean the oil can
take in more heat, but also lean mixtures even when they don't detonate
(when these engines are in lean mode they're so lean the mixture won't
even support detonation), lean mixtures have a very slow flamefront & so
make all chamber things hotter in general.

All the time remembering that the piston in these engines is almost
totally uncooled, they claim the air flow through the crankcase(s) cools
the piston(s) but this is just more knee jerk answer to a very good
question. "If" that answer is correct then the next question is where
does the heat go then?? up ontop of the piston?? so the piston gets
even hotter as this now preheated air is compressed to make it even
hotter?? then the piston really gets even more heat as the charge is
ignited??? no their answer is just more of the same.

The correct answer for Ficht should have been; gee we don't know,
hadn't really thought about it & do you think that's one of the reasons
some (1 in 5) of our engines lapse into uncontrolled detonation as the
power is suddenly increased & destroys itself??? Wow thanks for the tip
you might have just saved many boaters much grief, saved a US icon Co,
saved 7000 jobs & US$1.3 Billion of union fund retirees money from all
being lost, thanks again.

The answer E-Tec should now give is; Yep we know all about that & have
decided that if we're to remain EPA compliant with a cheap to build high
profit 2 stroke, we will just accept there's a real risk of excessive
piston heat buildup when they operate in lean burn mode. However we have
managed to find a brand new never before known to engine technology
aluminium alloy that we are hoping will be strong enough to survive the
extreme heat caused when the detonation does occur.



Needless to say normal aluminium melts well over 1000F & petrol will


auto ignite at any temp over 4-500F, so detonation is clearly what

they

know all about & instead of trying to solve the real cause they're

just

"trying" to make the pistons strong enough to survive detonation (&

the

related extreme temp rise) long enough that they will have a reduced
failure rate, such that they can sell a few more till the public

wakes up.

In all fairness I have to say that the DFI motors that are on the
market seem to be holding up well

Where are they?? seriously??? other than the occasional dealer "demo"
(code=couldn't sell nor give it away) boat there are very few you see in
regular service. Used to be lots of people with them when the dealers
were all pushing them really hard (& why not turned out in court they
were making a 30% kickback on them!!!) but these days??????

Very few Fichts, more Optimaxes but they're still being sold.

I'm cheeky if nothing else & say a good 80%+ of Fichts didn't last 5
years (that's the other 4 of the 5:-)) & given the excess price people
paid that's really scary on a $ cost per boat outing basis.

Anyone who again believes the very same dealers who lied before &
actually pays money for an E-Tec is either new to boating or related to
the dealer, at least I hope they are for they'll need all the support
they can get:-)

Thing is I would get a 4 stroke but for a jetdrive there is just no
option to a 2 stroke. And it a lot of fun

Yes agreed & if you take care of the Opti you should be OK because it's
a "jet". The time they can get loaded up while still in lean mode is
when they're on a fixed pitch propeller boat with a high top speed ie
lots of propeller pitch. When this type of setup is then used for long
periods in a say no wake zones the boat is usually ploughing along nose
high & at lowish revs while still lean, this is when the heat can really
buildup in the piston (the rest of the chamber stays cool via the
endless supply of seawater). Once the boat clears the no wake zone the
usr invariably opens it right up to blast away & it's then with the
sudden change from lean mode into make full power & full rich mixture
that the deadly combination occurs, lots of fuel plenty of fire, an
overly hot auto ignition source inside the chamber (really hot piston) &
very poor fuel atomisation because the injection pressure is just plain
too low.

In these premises I suggest the E-Tecs will go into detonation exactly
the same, it's just that they're hoping the new super duper strong
pistons can hang together long enough, till either the usr pulls back &
settles to cruise or the chamber self cools because there is now lots of
fuel around because of the normal mixture, it's still a lottery. A
lottery none of the big engine makers will even buy a ticket in....
why????? Well gee they knew what was going to happen with Ficht & I say
they know about this latest consumer funded experiment also.

Good news for you is that a jet doesn't load the engine the same way,
the only time the jet can load the engine up is at max power, anything
below & the load is very much removed from the engine, you'll see this
in your throttle position 1/2 throttle is lots of revs but not much
power (speed) so cared for you should be confident.


Other matter, assuming you have access to a computer that you can
configure a little & you can download (free) any of the good

newsreader

programs, go to this site;

http://news.individual.net/


YEah willlook into it but then i cant post from work (during lunch) and
the news readers i had used SUCKED worse than google

There is one called thunderbird from the mozilla people, some here use
it & really like it, it's the mail use part of the full mozilla which I
still use.



K

The Krause lie of the day???


I take it, you dont like Harry?

Na nor he me so it's all pretty fair in that regard:-)

Sorry if it offends you & in deference to you I'll keep today's Krause
lie to one of his shorter ones, but hey someone has to stand up to him:-)


K

& Krause's lie of the day is:

Other than what he's picked up here over the years this liar clearly
doesn't & never has owned a boat & certainly never done any real
boating, yet he insults all the NG real boaters with lies like this;

Have you ever sailed from San Francisco to Hawaii? I have.
Have you ever rounded Cape Horn? I have, twice.
Have you ever transited the Panama Canal? I have.
Have you owned more than 20 boats in your lifetime? I have.
Have you ever sailed large boats competitively? I have.
Have you ever been hundreds of miles from land in a powerboat
under your command? I have.