The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:45:48 -0700, "jps" wrote:

Among the criteria for job satisfaction IMHO is admiring the engineering,
manufacture and assembly of the machinery. Finely crafted cars are a joy to
work on. I wouldn't have cared where the cars were manufactured or who
manufactured them. As it turned out, I worked on German cars. They were
infinitely more interesting, pleasing and rewarding to work on. And,
because it took more than an average Joe to work on them, I made more money
than those working on American cars.

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers. If you asked them to
solve a problem that didn't have a part # associated with it or a diagram
for assembly, most of 'em would throw up their hands. Automobile repair
used to be much more of a craft. There is great beauty in machines and the
more the mechanic is an admirer of the craft, the closer that person would
be to my own point of view. Mr. Goodwrench probably wouldn't fit my
expectation of a craftsman.

Some snipped.

jps, if the American mechanics saw your attitude, you'd be run right out of
liberaldom.

Having spent many years in Europe, during all of which I drove German
automobiles or Italian motorcycles, I had a lot of interaction with German auto
and motorcycle mechanics. It is true that becoming a 'certified' mechanic in
Germany requires a formal apprenticeship program under a master. However, it is
not true that the mechanics are all 'craftsmen'.

Auto mechanics generally make repairs by diagnosing the problem, then either
replacing a part or making an adjustment to a part. Very seldom does a mechanic
of any automobile craft a part to replace. Even German autos and Italian
motorcycles use parts with part numbers.

What makes a mechanic good is her/his ability to diagnose the problem and
efficiently repair it.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

John, are you saying that you don't have to be a German Mechanic to be a
competant mechanic? Do you expect us to believe that a US mechanic is just
as qualified as a German Mechanic?

Next thing you will be telling us is that US management is not the reason
for the US not being competitive in the world marketplace. You sound like a
radical.


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:45:48 -0700, "jps" wrote:

Among the criteria for job satisfaction IMHO is admiring the engineering,
manufacture and assembly of the machinery. Finely crafted cars are a joy
to
work on. I wouldn't have cared where the cars were manufactured or who
manufactured them. As it turned out, I worked on German cars. They were
infinitely more interesting, pleasing and rewarding to work on. And,
because it took more than an average Joe to work on them, I made more
money
than those working on American cars.

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers. If you asked them to
solve a problem that didn't have a part # associated with it or a diagram
for assembly, most of 'em would throw up their hands. Automobile repair
used to be much more of a craft. There is great beauty in machines and
the
more the mechanic is an admirer of the craft, the closer that person
would
be to my own point of view. Mr. Goodwrench probably wouldn't fit my
expectation of a craftsman.

Some snipped.

jps, if the American mechanics saw your attitude, you'd be run right out
of
liberaldom.

Having spent many years in Europe, during all of which I drove German
automobiles or Italian motorcycles, I had a lot of interaction with German
auto
and motorcycle mechanics. It is true that becoming a 'certified' mechanic
in
Germany requires a formal apprenticeship program under a master. However,
it is
not true that the mechanics are all 'craftsmen'.

Auto mechanics generally make repairs by diagnosing the problem, then
either
replacing a part or making an adjustment to a part. Very seldom does a
mechanic
of any automobile craft a part to replace. Even German autos and Italian
motorcycles use parts with part numbers.

What makes a mechanic good is her/his ability to diagnose the problem and
efficiently repair it.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

snicker :-)




"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:adxSa.105978$Ph3.13245@sccrnsc04...
We all are learning so much in rec.boats. Harry has observed that the
problem with the US Manufacturing lies in poor management and JPS has so
wisely observed that the problem lies in product design. Our auto
designers
are making cars that are too easy to repair. We need to design products
so
the mechanics have to be craftsman to repair a car. This achieves two
objectives, it provides job satisfaction for the mechanic and helps to
make
it more expensive to repair the car. Today, all a mechanic needs to do
to
repair a car is replace a part, but if we designed the car correctly, it
would take a "craftsman" to be able to solve the problem. Think of the
job
satisfaction the mechanic will receive by solving a problem that no one
else
was able to solve. Think about how much money he will be able to make
when
his skills are so much better than anyone else that he can charge twice
the
price than the other mechanics who are not as good as he is.

jps has not only come up with a solution to help the US become more
competitive in the world marketplace, but he has also found a way to
provide
increased enjoyment in the workplace.

Great job.
"jps" wrote in message
...
Among the criteria for job satisfaction IMHO is admiring the
engineering,
manufacture and assembly of the machinery. Finely crafted cars are a
joy
to
work on. I wouldn't have cared where the cars were manufactured or who
manufactured them. As it turned out, I worked on German cars. They
were
infinitely more interesting, pleasing and rewarding to work on. And,
because it took more than an average Joe to work on them, I made more
money
than those working on American cars.

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers. If you asked them
to
solve a problem that didn't have a part # associated with it or a
diagram
for assembly, most of 'em would throw up their hands. Automobile repair
used to be much more of a craft. There is great beauty in machines and
the
more the mechanic is an admirer of the craft, the closer that person
would
be to my own point of view. Mr. Goodwrench probably wouldn't fit my
expectation of a craftsman.

A good marine engine mechanic is far more likely to be a craftsman.

Next point: I don't think American workers are inferior. I think
they're
among the best in the world. Unfortunately, they have crappy (any Ford,
GM
or Chrysler) or boring (Honda Accord) products to work on. The
Americans
were the ones who came up with planned obsolescence and I wouldn't be
surprised if Detroit weren't the ones who paved the path.

Look at the fine workmanship in the aerospace industry. That's what
American workers are capable of.


"Bill Cole" wrote in message
et...
As a newbie to rec.boats, it is funny to read some of the posts and
not
know
the history behind the people, but it is reasonable to assume you hold
mechanics to be a lower life form when you make the following posts:
" I used to make a living turning wrenches when I was a
punk
too.
That was 25 years ago and I didn't waste my time working on boring US
trashmobiles. Had a whole dang box o' Snap On by the time I retired
from
grease monkeyhood."

It sounds like you don't like mechanics or US made cars. I suppose
you
are
one of those who think US workers are inferior too. Let's ship all of
our
production to Germany and Japan where they can make quality products.


"jps" wrote in message
...
I was a mechanic you simp.

I still find great pride in working with my hands. I found that
working
with my brain a more efficient trade for worldly resources.

I do all my own maintenance, including major overhauls. How about
you?


"Put Name Here" wrote in message
news:KDQRa.89913$H17.28358@sccrnsc02...

Wow, now you are putting down people who work with their hands,
you
limo
liberals are such hypocrites.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:2PwSa.92123$GL4.25251@rwcrnsc53...

With genius like this so readily available, I am amazed we have any
problems
being competitive in the world market.

Don't you see? The problem is that all of the geniuses are here posting on
Usenet and not running the country or the corporations.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:45:48 -0700, "jps" wrote:

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers.

Automobile repair used to be much more of a craft.

What makes a mechanic good is her/his ability to diagnose the problem and
efficiently repair it.

Read the statements above. The first says "most," that doesn't mean all. I
know it's hard for you conservatives to see anything other than black and
white.

The second says "used to be" which indicates past tense.

Once you and Bill learn reading comprehension, you're welcome to come back
and argue my points.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

JPS,
Harry explained to us that the problem with US manufacturing has nothing to
do with labor unions, it is that management is poor. Is Harry one of the
people that I should listen to in the NG or is he one of the radical
conservatives?

Bill

"jps" wrote in message
...
"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:nuESa.108124$Ph3.13834@sccrnsc04...
John, are you saying that you don't have to be a German Mechanic to be a
competant mechanic? Do you expect us to believe that a US mechanic is
just
as qualified as a German Mechanic?

Next thing you will be telling us is that US management is not the
reason
for the US not being competitive in the world marketplace. You sound
like
a
radical.

No one said anything about having to be German to be a good mechanic.
Although, in Germany, it normally takes some factory training or, as John
pointed out, an apprenticeship. That would indicate they're more serious
about the "craft."

What is your continuing point about management? Is there something you'd
like to say or is your point to be obnoxiously obtuse?

Explain the theory of planned obsolescence to us Bill. You seems to be
hiding so much inside information maybe you could edify us on the practice
in America's auto industry.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

John,
I think what jps was trying to tell you is that any good mechanic would not
work on an American car. A good mechanic would chose to work on a German
Car. Why can't you understand the obvious.

Bill
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:36:19 -0700, "jps" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:45:48 -0700, "jps" wrote:

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers.

Automobile repair used to be much more of a craft.

What makes a mechanic good is her/his ability to diagnose the problem
and
efficiently repair it.

Read the statements above. The first says "most," that doesn't mean all.
I
know it's hard for you conservatives to see anything other than black and
white.

The second says "used to be" which indicates past tense.

Once you and Bill learn reading comprehension, you're welcome to come
back
and argue my points.

Wow, a little touchy today, huh? When you were a mechanic you were as much
a
part replacer as any of the 'most' mechanics to which you refer. The fact
the
you replaced parts on German cars, after looking up the part number, makes
you
no more proficient than 'most' mechanics.

Diagnosis and efficiency are the keys to a good mechanic, whether it be on
European or American cars. Neither have a thing to do with part numbers,
which
have been around as long as you have been working on automobiles.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message
. ..

Here ya go Asslicker, here's a link to a pic of my ASE
certification,
and
one of my GM Certifications (have a few more, have to find them).
Sorry, but my Engineering Cert is not going through my roller
scanner. I
will be happy to post that also once I have access to flatbed
scanner.

http://photos.yahoo.com/recboats

there blank. nothing there.


Bull****.

So, Joe, you stated that you were an engineer. I ask, again, in WHAT
states are you a licensed professional engineer? Registration numbers?

Since it seems you cant read a thread, here it is again-

Licensed as an Engineer?

Not required nor available for Communications Engineering in FL or GA.
RCDD is the industry standard for communications engineering. 90% plus large
industry/government contracts require an RCDD stamped approval for all
communications design plans, and an RCDD onsite during installation for
QA/QC and PM.

But, since your an engineer yourself, you already knew that.
Didn't you?

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Joe" wrote in message news:C5TSa.47301
Licensed as an Engineer?

Not required nor available for Communications Engineering in FL or GA.
RCDD is the industry standard for communications engineering. 90% plus large
industry/government contracts require an RCDD stamped approval for all
communications design plans, and an RCDD onsite during installation for
QA/QC and PM.

But, since your an engineer yourself, you already knew that.
Didn't you?

Pure horse****, there Blow. If you practice engineering in the state
of GA, even use the word ENGINEER in your business name, reference to
yourself, etc., you MUST be licensed as a professional engineer.
Florida is very similar:

Professional Engineer - An individual who practices engineering in
Georgia, unless specifically exempted under the provisions of O.C.G.A.
43-15-29, must be licensed by the Board. As such, a registrant may
legally represent himself/herself to the public as an engineer, offer
consulting engineering services to private and public entities and
perform engineering design or construction on public works. A licensed
Professional Engineer must also adhere to the rules of professional
conduct established by the Board.


43-15-29. Exceptions to operation of chapter.
(a) Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as excluding a
qualified architect registered in this state from such engineering
practice as may be incident to the practice of his profession or as
excluding a professional engineer from such architectural practice as
may be incident to the practice of professional engineering.
(b) The following persons shall be exempt from this chapter:
(1) A person working as an employee or a subordinate of a person
holding a certificate of registration under this chapter or an
employee of a person practicing lawfully under Code Section 43-15-21,
provided such work does not include final design decisions and is done
under the supervision of, and responsibility therefor is assumed by, a
person holding a certificate of registration under this chapter or a
person practicing lawfully under Code Section 43-15-21;
(2) Officers and employees of the government of the United States
while engaged within this state in the practice of professional
engineering or land surveying for such government;
(3) All elective officers of the political subdivision of the state
while in the practice of professional engineering or land surveying in
the performance of their official duties; and
(4) Officers and employees of the Department of Transportation, except
as required by Title 46, while engaged within this state in the
practice of professional engineering or land surveying for such
department.
(c) This chapter shall not be construed as requiring registration for
the purpose of practicing professional engineering or land surveying
by an individual, firm, or corporation on property owned or leased by
such individual, firm, or corporation unless the same involves the
public safety or public health or for the performance of engineering
which relates solely to the design or fabrication of manufactured
products.
(d) This chapter shall not be construed to prevent or affect the
practice of professional engineering and land surveying with respect
to utility facilities by any public utility subject to regulation by
the Public Service Commission, the Federal Communications Commission,
the Federal Power Commission, or like regulatory agencies, including
its parents, affiliates, or subsidiaries; or by the officers and
full-time permanent employees of any such public utility, including
its parents, affiliates, or subsidiaries, except where such practice
involves property lines of adjoining property owners, provided that
this exception does not extend to any professional engineer or land
surveyor engaged in the practice of professional engineering or land
surveying whose compensation is based in whole or in part on a fee or
to any engineering services performed by the above-referenced utility
companies not directly connected with work on their facilities.
(e) This chapter shall not be construed to affect the lawful practice
of a person acting within the scope of a license granted by the state
under any other law.

[Top | Laws and Rules]

43-15-30. Unlawful acts.
(a) Any person who violates Code Section 43-15-7 shall be guilty of a
misdemeanor.
(b) Any person presenting or attempting to use as his own the
certificate of registration or the seal of another obtained under this
chapter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c) Any person who gives any false or forged evidence of any kind to
the board or to any member thereof in obtaining a certificate or
certificate of registration shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(d) Any person who falsely impersonates any other registrant or any
person who attempts to use an expired or revoked certificate of
registration shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(e) Each day or occurrence shall be considered a separate offense.
(f) Any person offering services to the public who uses by name,
verbal claim, sign, advertisement, directory listing, or letterhead
the words "Engineer," "Engineers," "Professional Engineering,"
"Engineering," or "Engineered" shall be guilty of a misdemeanor unless
said person has complied with the provisions of this chapter.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:13:10 -0500, Q
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 05:41:45 GMT, "Joe" wrote:

Then why are you using Microsnort Outlook Express. That piece of crap
is riddled with security holes!!!


Renifleur d'âne

Shpx bss, qvpxjnq.

Hey engiener, no witty reply?

--
Q

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

I think you have been kissing way to many fish, you need to get a grip on
your life.


"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message news:C5TSa.47301
Licensed as an Engineer?

Not required nor available for Communications Engineering in FL or GA.
RCDD is the industry standard for communications engineering. 90% plus
large
industry/government contracts require an RCDD stamped approval for all
communications design plans, and an RCDD onsite during installation for
QA/QC and PM.

But, since your an engineer yourself, you already knew that.
Didn't you?

Pure horse****, there Blow. If you practice engineering in the state
of GA, even use the word ENGINEER in your business name, reference to
yourself, etc., you MUST be licensed as a professional engineer.
Florida is very similar:

Professional Engineer - An individual who practices engineering in
Georgia, unless specifically exempted under the provisions of O.C.G.A.
43-15-29, must be licensed by the Board. As such, a registrant may
legally represent himself/herself to the public as an engineer, offer
consulting engineering services to private and public entities and
perform engineering design or construction on public works. A licensed
Professional Engineer must also adhere to the rules of professional
conduct established by the Board.


43-15-29. Exceptions to operation of chapter.
(a) Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as excluding a
qualified architect registered in this state from such engineering
practice as may be incident to the practice of his profession or as
excluding a professional engineer from such architectural practice as
may be incident to the practice of professional engineering.
(b) The following persons shall be exempt from this chapter:
(1) A person working as an employee or a subordinate of a person
holding a certificate of registration under this chapter or an
employee of a person practicing lawfully under Code Section 43-15-21,
provided such work does not include final design decisions and is done
under the supervision of, and responsibility therefor is assumed by, a
person holding a certificate of registration under this chapter or a
person practicing lawfully under Code Section 43-15-21;
(2) Officers and employees of the government of the United States
while engaged within this state in the practice of professional
engineering or land surveying for such government;
(3) All elective officers of the political subdivision of the state
while in the practice of professional engineering or land surveying in
the performance of their official duties; and
(4) Officers and employees of the Department of Transportation, except
as required by Title 46, while engaged within this state in the
practice of professional engineering or land surveying for such
department.
(c) This chapter shall not be construed as requiring registration for
the purpose of practicing professional engineering or land surveying
by an individual, firm, or corporation on property owned or leased by
such individual, firm, or corporation unless the same involves the
public safety or public health or for the performance of engineering
which relates solely to the design or fabrication of manufactured
products.
(d) This chapter shall not be construed to prevent or affect the
practice of professional engineering and land surveying with respect
to utility facilities by any public utility subject to regulation by
the Public Service Commission, the Federal Communications Commission,
the Federal Power Commission, or like regulatory agencies, including
its parents, affiliates, or subsidiaries; or by the officers and
full-time permanent employees of any such public utility, including
its parents, affiliates, or subsidiaries, except where such practice
involves property lines of adjoining property owners, provided that
this exception does not extend to any professional engineer or land
surveyor engaged in the practice of professional engineering or land
surveying whose compensation is based in whole or in part on a fee or
to any engineering services performed by the above-referenced utility
companies not directly connected with work on their facilities.
(e) This chapter shall not be construed to affect the lawful practice
of a person acting within the scope of a license granted by the state
under any other law.

[Top | Laws and Rules]

43-15-30. Unlawful acts.
(a) Any person who violates Code Section 43-15-7 shall be guilty of a
misdemeanor.
(b) Any person presenting or attempting to use as his own the
certificate of registration or the seal of another obtained under this
chapter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c) Any person who gives any false or forged evidence of any kind to
the board or to any member thereof in obtaining a certificate or
certificate of registration shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(d) Any person who falsely impersonates any other registrant or any
person who attempts to use an expired or revoked certificate of
registration shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(e) Each day or occurrence shall be considered a separate offense.
(f) Any person offering services to the public who uses by name,
verbal claim, sign, advertisement, directory listing, or letterhead
the words "Engineer," "Engineers," "Professional Engineering,"
"Engineering," or "Engineered" shall be guilty of a misdemeanor unless
said person has complied with the provisions of this chapter.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message news:C5TSa.47301
Licensed as an Engineer?

Not required nor available for Communications Engineering in FL or GA.
RCDD is the industry standard for communications engineering. 90% plus
large
industry/government contracts require an RCDD stamped approval for all
communications design plans, and an RCDD onsite during installation for
QA/QC and PM.

But, since your an engineer yourself, you already knew that.
Didn't you?

Pure horse****, there Blow. If you practice engineering in the state
of GA, even use the word ENGINEER in your business name, reference to
yourself, etc., you MUST be licensed as a professional engineer.
Florida is very similar:

Here's a link to a wanted add from a company trying to hire me right now as
an "Systems Project Engineer"
http://bicsi.com/Resources/JobBoard/ListingDetails.aspx?JobID=1183

Notice it says "You will have direct leadership of the engineering design
and production" and "RCDD or PE preferred" but nowhere does it say required.

Better hurry and call the police.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Q" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:13:10 -0500, Q
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 05:41:45 GMT, "Joe" wrote:

Then why are you using Microsnort Outlook Express. That piece of crap
is riddled with security holes!!!


Renifleur d'âne

Shpx bss, qvpxjnq.

Hey engiener, no witty reply?

--
Q

Renifleur d'âne

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:33:43 GMT, "Bill Cole" wrote:

John,
I think what jps was trying to tell you is that any good mechanic would not
work on an American car. A good mechanic would chose to work on a German
Car. Why can't you understand the obvious.

Bill
"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:36:19 -0700, "jps" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:45:48 -0700, "jps" wrote:

As for mechanics, most of them are parts replacers.

Automobile repair used to be much more of a craft.

What makes a mechanic good is her/his ability to diagnose the problem
and
efficiently repair it.

Read the statements above. The first says "most," that doesn't mean all.
I
know it's hard for you conservatives to see anything other than black and
white.

The second says "used to be" which indicates past tense.

Once you and Bill learn reading comprehension, you're welcome to come
back
and argue my points.

Wow, a little touchy today, huh? When you were a mechanic you were as much
a
part replacer as any of the 'most' mechanics to which you refer. The fact
the
you replaced parts on German cars, after looking up the part number, makes
you
no more proficient than 'most' mechanics.

Diagnosis and efficiency are the keys to a good mechanic, whether it be on
European or American cars. Neither have a thing to do with part numbers,
which
have been around as long as you have been working on automobiles.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

Oh hell! I screwed up again.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

Bill Cole wrote:
JPS,
Harry explained to us that the problem with US manufacturing has nothing to
do with labor unions, it is that management is poor. Is Harry one of the
people that I should listen to in the NG or is he one of the radical
conservatives?

Bill



Dropped on your head too many times, fella?

Whatever problems a business has, they are a creation of management. Is
that too simple for you to understand?

Poor quality on the assembly line? Then you haven't trained or motivated
your workforce properly. Costs of manufacturing too high? Then you
haven't invested enough in plant modernization, training or even
cross-training. Workforce has a bad attitude? Then you have worse managers.

Virtually everything adverse that takes place at work is the creation of
management, either because it handle its job badly or not at all.

Sometimes I lecture on trade unionization and am asked by members of the
audience, "Well, what kind of unions will we have if we are unionized?"

My answer always is the same:

"Precisely the kinds of unions you deserve."

Recently, I rented an almost new Pontiac from AVIS. The car was
assembled properly, but from a design and engineering perspective, it
was third rate. Was that the fault of the unionized workforce. Hardly.
The car was the product of GM management.



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:
JPS,
Harry explained to us that the problem with US manufacturing has nothing
to
do with labor unions, it is that management is poor. Is Harry one of
the
people that I should listen to in the NG or is he one of the radical
conservatives?

Bill



Dropped on your head too many times, fella?

Whatever problems a business has, they are a creation of management. Is
that too simple for you to understand?

Poor quality on the assembly line? Then you haven't trained or motivated
your workforce properly. Costs of manufacturing too high? Then you
haven't invested enough in plant modernization, training or even
cross-training. Workforce has a bad attitude? Then you have worse
managers.

Virtually everything adverse that takes place at work is the creation of
management, either because it handle its job badly or not at all.


Since pay should be commensurate with the level of responsibility you have,
then by your argument, management deserves the money they get...and the line
workers with "no responsibility" should get paid very little.







Sometimes I lecture on trade unionization and am asked by members of the
audience, "Well, what kind of unions will we have if we are unionized?"

My answer always is the same:

"Precisely the kinds of unions you deserve."

Recently, I rented an almost new Pontiac from AVIS. The car was
assembled properly, but from a design and engineering perspective, it
was third rate. Was that the fault of the unionized workforce. Hardly.
The car was the product of GM management.

The car was the product of GM management being squeezed by such high labor
rates, that they have to cut corners in order to put together a piece of
hardware at a competitive price.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

Harry,
I agree with you, the problem with American Corporations is poor managers,
we need to either move overseas and use foreign managers or import us some
of those good managers.

Obviously, if all problems are the result of managers, we need to get rid of
the son of bitches.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:
JPS,
Harry explained to us that the problem with US manufacturing has nothing
to
do with labor unions, it is that management is poor. Is Harry one of
the
people that I should listen to in the NG or is he one of the radical
conservatives?

Bill



Dropped on your head too many times, fella?

Whatever problems a business has, they are a creation of management. Is
that too simple for you to understand?

Poor quality on the assembly line? Then you haven't trained or motivated
your workforce properly. Costs of manufacturing too high? Then you
haven't invested enough in plant modernization, training or even
cross-training. Workforce has a bad attitude? Then you have worse
managers.

Virtually everything adverse that takes place at work is the creation of
management, either because it handle its job badly or not at all.

Sometimes I lecture on trade unionization and am asked by members of the
audience, "Well, what kind of unions will we have if we are unionized?"

My answer always is the same:

"Precisely the kinds of unions you deserve."

Recently, I rented an almost new Pontiac from AVIS. The car was
assembled properly, but from a design and engineering perspective, it
was third rate. Was that the fault of the unionized workforce. Hardly.
The car was the product of GM management.



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

Bill Cole wrote:
Harry,
I agree with you, the problem with American Corporations is poor managers,
we need to either move overseas and use foreign managers or import us some
of those good managers.

Obviously, if all problems are the result of managers, we need to get rid of
the son of bitches.


You seem simple-minded enough to be a right-wing Bush supporter...


--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Joe" wrote in message . ..
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message news:C5TSa.47301
Licensed as an Engineer?

Not required nor available for Communications Engineering in FL or GA.
RCDD is the industry standard for communications engineering. 90% plus
large
industry/government contracts require an RCDD stamped approval for all
communications design plans, and an RCDD onsite during installation for
QA/QC and PM.

But, since your an engineer yourself, you already knew that.
Didn't you?

Pure horse****, there Blow. If you practice engineering in the state
of GA, even use the word ENGINEER in your business name, reference to
yourself, etc., you MUST be licensed as a professional engineer.
Florida is very similar:

Here's a link to a wanted add from a company trying to hire me right now as
an "Systems Project Engineer"
http://bicsi.com/Resources/JobBoard/ListingDetails.aspx?JobID=1183

Notice it says "You will have direct leadership of the engineering design
and production" and "RCDD or PE preferred" but nowhere does it say required.

Better hurry and call the police.

Do you dispute that, in the state of Georgia, that if you practice
engineering, and or reference to engineering is in your name, that by
law, you must be licensed as a Professional Engineer? Do you further
dispute that, in order to become a licensed engineer in the state of
Georgia, that you must complete four years of Engineer in Training,
under a LICENSED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER, to even be allowed to sit for
the exam?

In short, I give you verbage directly from the State of Georgia
website, you give me a flippin' WANT AD!!!!
Now, I ask, are you or are you not a Licensed Professional Engineer?
Yes or no.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

Wrong, I am not a Bush supporter, but you position is so ridiculous it is
amazing that anyone with such a low IQ could figure out how to turn on a
computer.

Do you use your local library to access rec.boats? I understand the
librarians are very helpful.

Bill

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:
Harry,
I agree with you, the problem with American Corporations is poor
managers,
we need to either move overseas and use foreign managers or import us
some
of those good managers.

Obviously, if all problems are the result of managers, we need to get
rid of
the son of bitches.


You seem simple-minded enough to be a right-wing Bush supporter...


--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

Why are you wasting your time trying to prove you are such an important man?
Why do you think anyone cares if you or Joe are professional engineers? You
daughter must look at her daddy pounding away at his typewriter wasting all
of his time arguing politics in rec.boats and shake her head in shame.

Bill

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message
. ..
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message news:C5TSa.47301
Licensed as an Engineer?

Not required nor available for Communications Engineering in FL or
GA.
RCDD is the industry standard for communications engineering. 90%
plus
large
industry/government contracts require an RCDD stamped approval for
all
communications design plans, and an RCDD onsite during installation
for
QA/QC and PM.

But, since your an engineer yourself, you already knew that.
Didn't you?

Pure horse****, there Blow. If you practice engineering in the state
of GA, even use the word ENGINEER in your business name, reference to
yourself, etc., you MUST be licensed as a professional engineer.
Florida is very similar:
.
Hey Asslicker, I never said I was a P.E.
Only 1 in 5 engineers are, or need to be. My specialty comes under
Division
16 (Electrical) and must be stamped by a PE after my design.

If I ever need it, I'll get it.


Professional Engineer - An individual who practices engineering in
Georgia, unless specifically exempted under the provisions of O.C.G.A.
43-15-29, must be licensed by the Board. As such, a registrant may
legally represent himself/herself to the public as an engineer, offer
consulting engineering services to private and public entities and
perform engineering design or construction on public works. A licensed
Professional Engineer must also adhere to the rules of professional
conduct established by the Board.


43-15-29. Exceptions to operation of chapter.
(a) Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as excluding a
qualified architect registered in this state from such engineering
practice as may be incident to the practice of his profession or as
excluding a professional engineer from such architectural practice as
may be incident to the practice of professional engineering.

Here's where I fit in Asslicker-

(b) The following persons shall be exempt from this chapter:
(1) A person working as an employee or a subordinate of a person
holding a certificate of registration under this chapter or an
employee of a person practicing lawfully under Code Section 43-15-21,
provided such work does not include final design decisions and is done
under the supervision of, and responsibility therefor is assumed by, a
person holding a certificate of registration under this chapter or a
person practicing lawfully under Code Section 43-15-21;

Understand? After my design is complete it is incorporated into the
Division
16 plans and stamped by a P.E.
Most large government jobs that I am associated with *require* my stamp
*prior* to a P.E.

Oh, so you're NOT an engineer. First, you can't just "go and get it".
You need four years of Engineer In Training (E.I.T.). Now, in order to
obtain your E.I.T., you must sit for the exam.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

In short, I give you verbage directly from the State of Georgia
website, you give me a flippin' WANT AD!!!!
Now, I ask, are you or are you not a Licensed Professional Engineer?
Yes or no.

I have already told you Asslicker, I am not a P.E.
Never said I was.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

Being an Engineer and being a P.E. are two different items! Reciprocity is
for P.E.'s. Most states have near the same rules for being a P.E., but not
all states require you to be a P.E. to be called an engineer. Electronics
and Software engineers are not needed to be licensed in most states to be
called an engineer.
bill

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Bill Cole" wrote in message
news:vEWSa.113150$ye4.83907@sccrnsc01...
I think you have been kissing way to many fish, you need to get a grip
on
your life.

Why, do you refute the evidence I've given directly from the State of
Georgia website, pertaining to licensing of professional engineers?
Most other states are very similar. You may, however, in a number of
states, show competence by being licensed a number of years in other
states. It's called reciprocity.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

Bill Cole wrote:
Wrong, I am not a Bush supporter, but you position is so ridiculous it is
amazing that anyone with such a low IQ could figure out how to turn on a
computer.

Do you use your local library to access rec.boats? I understand the
librarians are very helpful.

Bill

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:
Harry,
I agree with you, the problem with American Corporations is poor
managers,
we need to either move overseas and use foreign managers or import us
some
of those good managers.

Obviously, if all problems are the result of managers, we need to get
rid of
the son of bitches.


You seem simple-minded enough to be a right-wing Bush supporter...


--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.





Oh? Is it your position that management is NOT responsible for what
happens in an auto factory? Nothing significant happens on the factory
floor without it being an effect of management's cause, not in the
United States.

--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

Well, if we have the best workers in the world, and management is not able
to utilize this wonderful, highly productive workforce and still be
competitive in the marketplace, it makes sense to ship the jobs overseas
where they can hire some effective managers that will allow them to be
competitive.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:
Wrong, I am not a Bush supporter, but you position is so ridiculous it
is
amazing that anyone with such a low IQ could figure out how to turn on a
computer.

Do you use your local library to access rec.boats? I understand the
librarians are very helpful.

Bill

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bill Cole wrote:
Harry,
I agree with you, the problem with American Corporations is poor
managers,
we need to either move overseas and use foreign managers or import us
some
of those good managers.

Obviously, if all problems are the result of managers, we need to get
rid of
the son of bitches.


You seem simple-minded enough to be a right-wing Bush supporter...


--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.





Oh? Is it your position that management is NOT responsible for what
happens in an auto factory? Nothing significant happens on the factory
floor without it being an effect of management's cause, not in the
United States.

--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message ...
Being an Engineer and being a P.E. are two different items! Reciprocity is
for P.E.'s. Most states have near the same rules for being a P.E., but not
all states require you to be a P.E. to be called an engineer. Electronics
and Software engineers are not needed to be licensed in most states to be
called an engineer.
bill

Bill, not true, here is a paste directly from the state of Georgia website.

Please note (f)

43-15-30. Unlawful acts.
(a) Any person who violates Code Section 43-15-7 shall be guilty of a
misdemeanor.
(b) Any person presenting or attempting to use as his own the
certificate of registration or the seal of another obtained under this
chapter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(c) Any person who gives any false or forged evidence of any kind to
the board or to any member thereof in obtaining a certificate or
certificate of registration shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(d) Any person who falsely impersonates any other registrant or any
person who attempts to use an expired or revoked certificate of
registration shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
(e) Each day or occurrence shall be considered a separate offense.
(f) Any person offering services to the public who uses by name,
verbal claim, sign, advertisement, directory listing, or letterhead
the words "Engineer," "Engineers," "Professional Engineering,"
"Engineering," or "Engineered" shall be guilty of a misdemeanor unless
said person has complied with the provisions of this chapter.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
Being an Engineer and being a P.E. are two different items! Reciprocity
is
for P.E.'s. Most states have near the same rules for being a P.E., but
not
all states require you to be a P.E. to be called an engineer.
Electronics
and Software engineers are not needed to be licensed in most states to
be
called an engineer.
bill

Bill, not true, here is a paste directly from the state of Georgia
website.

Snip


Georgia is one state! Not all states! Learn to read you dumbasslicker!

I will repost the line from my post to make it easier for you to read and
comprehend!

"Electronics
and Software engineers are not needed to be licensed in most states to
be
called an engineer."

Plus you can be called an engineer in Georgia if you get to drive the
locomotive.

Bill

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message
. ..
In short, I give you verbage directly from the State of Georgia
website, you give me a flippin' WANT AD!!!!
Now, I ask, are you or are you not a Licensed Professional Engineer?
Yes or no.

I have already told you Asslicker, I am not a P.E.
Never said I was.

Okay, now, we're getting somewhere. I always know when I'm correct,
and you're wrong, because you start name calling!
Now, can you legally call yourself an engineer in the State of
Georgia? Care for me to repost the laws?

You tell me, must every engineer be a P.E?

I am also highly suspect that you are a P.E.
Must P.E.'s I know are very intelligent, open minded, mentally stable
people, all of which your are not.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message ...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
Being an Engineer and being a P.E. are two different items! Reciprocity
is
for P.E.'s. Most states have near the same rules for being a P.E., but
not
all states require you to be a P.E. to be called an engineer.
Electronics
and Software engineers are not needed to be licensed in most states to
be
called an engineer.
bill

Bill, not true, here is a paste directly from the state of Georgia
website.

Snip


Georgia is one state! Not all states! Learn to read you dumbasslicker!

I will repost the line from my post to make it easier for you to read and
comprehend!

"Electronics
and Software engineers are not needed to be licensed in most states to
be
called an engineer."

Pure horse****. Look at the specific laws. MOST states require you,
like GA, to be a licensed profesional engineer in order to call
yourself an engineer. Either in YOUR name, your COMPANY name, etc.

Plus you can be called an engineer in Georgia if you get to drive the
locomotive.

Not true.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

basskisser wrote:

Yes, in the State of Georgia, as with most states, you must be a P.E.
to legally call yourself an engineer.

BS.

--
Skipper

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

In California when I took the EIT, all they asked for was money. Did not
have to show a diploma, transcripts. They then sent me the EIT certificate
after taking the test. And 30 years later, I am still an engineer, and
never worked in an industry that required P.E.
Bill

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message news:bfk6k8

How many times did it take you to pass the EIT exam?

One.

How many times did it
take you to pass the PE exam?

One. The company I worked for at the time never had anybody take the
PE twice.

And depending on your age, etc, you do not
need 4 years as an EIT.

Bull****. State of GA, 4 years. Period. State of N.Y. 4 years, period.

Does not even require a college degree to sit for
either test.

If you don't have a degree, then you have to have a MINIMUM 8 years
engineering experience. Then you need to work as an EIT for SEVEN
years.

An applicant may qualify to take the Fundamentals of Engineering
(FE/EIT) examination if the applicant:


is in the process of completing a four year curriculum in engineering
at a college or university approved by the Board within six months of
the next scheduled administration of the Fundamentals of Engineering
examination, and evidence of such is provided by the college or
university directly to the Board [43-15-8(1)(A)]; or
has graduated from a college or university on completion of a four
year curriculum in engineering approved by the Board, and a transcript
evidencing such graduation is provided by the college or university
directly to the Board [43-15-8(1)(A)]; or
has graduated from a college or university on completion of a four
year curriculum in engineering technology or a related science
approved by the Board, and a transcript evidencing such graduation is
provided by the college or university directly to the Board
[43-15-8(2)(A)]; or
has acquired not less than eight years of acceptable engineering
experience [43-15-8(3)], [43-15-10], [180-3-.02]; and
has made application to the Board and submitted the requisite,
non-refundable, fee of $20.00 to the Board (made payable to the
Secretary of State); and
has made application to NCEES and submitted the requisite fee of
$95.00 to NCEES.
An applicant having met the above requirements and having passed the
FE/EIT examination shall be certified as an Engineer-in-Training.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
In California when I took the EIT, all they asked for was money. Did not
have to show a diploma, transcripts. They then sent me the EIT
certificate
after taking the test. And 30 years later, I am still an engineer, and
never worked in an industry that required P.E.
Bill


Last time I looked, Kali had NO restrictions on the use of Engineer in a
title, as long as you didn't use "Professional Engineer", "Licensed
Engineer", or "Registered Engineer", which is the way it should be.

P.E.'s deserve to have a title that ranks above a standard "Engineer" title,
but there are many, many capable Engineer's that do not have, nor require
P.E. credentials.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Joe" wrote in message . ..
Pure horse****. Look at the specific laws. MOST states require you,
like GA, to be a licensed profesional engineer in order to call
yourself an engineer. Either in YOUR name, your COMPANY name, etc.

Most states have exceptions, including yours.
I think Texas is the only state that doesn't.


Plus you can be called an engineer in Georgia if you get to drive the
locomotive.

Not true.

Not sure about that one, but If I had to guess, I'd guess your wrong.

Again, I've given specific verbage directly from the State of GA
website. Prove me wrong.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

I am also highly suspect that you are a P.E.
Must P.E.'s I know are very intelligent, open minded, mentally stable
people, all of which your are not.

Wager?

Maybe.

I tried to look up Kevin Noble at the Georgia license verification page and
I came up with "no license found"

https://secure.sos.state.ga.us/myverification/

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

https://secure.sos.state.ga.us/myverification/

AWESOME! Now, what would you like to wager? Let's make it something
FUN. I'll supply you with my CORRECT name, and PE registration number
for GA. I'll also give you the reg. number for AL, TN. THEN, when
supplied this information, you will openly tell people that you were
wrong, your ass overtook your mouth, and you didn't know what to hell
you were talking about. Also, you'll need to state that you are, in
fact, NOT an engineer. You are a technician. Deal?

Your pathetic, that's all I need to know about you.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Joe" wrote in message .. .
https://secure.sos.state.ga.us/myverification/

AWESOME! Now, what would you like to wager? Let's make it something
FUN. I'll supply you with my CORRECT name, and PE registration number
for GA. I'll also give you the reg. number for AL, TN. THEN, when
supplied this information, you will openly tell people that you were
wrong, your ass overtook your mouth, and you didn't know what to hell
you were talking about. Also, you'll need to state that you are, in
fact, NOT an engineer. You are a technician. Deal?

Your pathetic, that's all I need to know about you.

I guess that would mean that no, you DON'T want to wager, correct?

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message ...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message
. ..
Pure horse****. Look at the specific laws. MOST states require you,
like GA, to be a licensed profesional engineer in order to call
yourself an engineer. Either in YOUR name, your COMPANY name, etc.

Most states have exceptions, including yours.
I think Texas is the only state that doesn't.


Plus you can be called an engineer in Georgia if you get to drive
the
locomotive.

Not true.

Not sure about that one, but If I had to guess, I'd guess your wrong.

Again, I've given specific verbage directly from the State of GA
website. Prove me wrong.

Give the specific verbage directly from the other 49 States of USA
websites. Prove us wrong.

Surely you are at LEAST smart enough to understand that most states
are VERY similar in licensing requirements, as well as rules and
regulations governing those requirements.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

AWESOME! Now, what would you like to wager? Let's make it something
FUN. I'll supply you with my CORRECT name, and PE registration number
for GA. I'll also give you the reg. number for AL, TN. THEN, when
supplied this information, you will openly tell people that you were
wrong, your ass overtook your mouth, and you didn't know what to hell
you were talking about. Also, you'll need to state that you are, in
fact, NOT an engineer. You are a technician. Deal?

Your pathetic, that's all I need to know about you.

I guess that would mean that no, you DON'T want to wager, correct?

You're right for once.
I don't wager with liars, fools, nor mentally unstable persons.

In your case, you've hit the trifecta.

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

You're right for once.
I don't wager with liars, fools, nor mentally unstable persons.

In your case, you've hit the trifecta.


Chicken**** ******* retard braggart.



Tammy Bush
DimDummy
Kevin Noble
Basskisser
Asslicker
JimDandy

Have I missed any?

The Bush Economy Stinks...and Sinks
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message ...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message
. ..
Pure horse****. Look at the specific laws. MOST states require you,
like GA, to be a licensed profesional engineer in order to call
yourself an engineer. Either in YOUR name, your COMPANY name, etc.

Most states have exceptions, including yours.
I think Texas is the only state that doesn't.


Plus you can be called an engineer in Georgia if you get to drive
the
locomotive.

Not true.

Not sure about that one, but If I had to guess, I'd guess your wrong.

Again, I've given specific verbage directly from the State of GA
website. Prove me wrong.

Give the specific verbage directly from the other 49 States of USA
websites. Prove us wrong.

Here are a few, in hopes that you will understand that most of the
states are VERY similar. Funny, but you claim to be an engineer and
don't understand this.
Alabama:
http://www.bels.state.al.us/pdfs/Law...rativeCode.pdf

North Carolina:
http://www.ncbels.org/GS89C8-2000.pdf

California:
http://www.dca.ca.gov/pels/2003_pe_act.pdf

So, now, do you get the idea? Most states are very similar!