JimH wrote:

Really? I can think of 3,000 who died on 9-11 thanks to Clinton. I can
also not recall anything he ever did to tray and stop terrorism.......

**********************

Nobody should have to spend the rest of their life so grossly
underinformed:

Each item has one or more links to verfying cites. Have fun.

April 24, 1995 The American Civil Liberties Union today said that the
=93counter-terrorism=94 proposals suggested by President Clinton Sunday
evening threatened to repeat the mistakes of the past and erode
constitutional principles that have shaped our society and remain at
the core of our freedom and liberty.
=85
http://www.aclu.org/ news/n042495.html

April 18, 1996 Congress on Thursday passed a compromise bill boosting
the ability of law enforcement authorities to fight domestic terrorism
.. . . The measure, which the Senate passed overwhelmingly Wednesday
evening, is a watered-down version of the White House's proposal. The
Clinton administration has been critical of the bill, calling it too
weak.
=85
http:/ /www.cnn.com/US/9604/18/anti.terror.bill/ index.html

July 30, 1996 Paris -- A Fact Sheet from the July 30 ministerial
meeting of the P-8 (the industrialized nations of the world plus
Russia) notes that President Clinton for three years has led an
international campaign to combat terrorism in concert with the P-8 as
well as with allies in the Middle East and elsewhere . . . Following is
the official text of the Fact Sheet.
=85
http:// www.fas.org/irp/threat/p8_facta. htm

July 30, 1996 President Clinton urged Congress Tuesday to act swiftly
in developing anti-terrorism legislation before its August recess . . .
But while the president pushed for quick legislation, Republican
lawmakers hardened their stance against some of the proposed
anti-terrorism measures . . . Clinton said he knew there was Republican
opposition to his proposal on explosive taggants, but it should not be
allowed to block the provisions on which both parties agree.
=85
http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/ clinton.terrorism/

August 25, 1998 The August 20 bombing of Osama bin Laden's terrorist
bases in Afghanistan and the alleged bin Laden-funded chemical weapons
production facility in Khartoum, was a decisive and appropriate U.S.
response to the atrocities in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, and President
Bill Clinton should be commended.
=85
http://www. washingtoninstitute.org/media/schenker. htm

March 21, 2000 US President Bill Clinton said on Tuesday that he would
take up with Pakistan military ruler Gen Pervez Musharraf the issue of
terrorism in the Kashmir valley.
=85
http://www. indiainfo.com/news/2000/03/21/ clin

March 22, 2000 Clinton is pushing General Musharraf to use his
influence with Afghanistan's leaders=97the Taliban=97to bring Bin Laden to
trial . . . Even if Musharraf could convince the Taliban to give Bin
Laden up, there is an abundance of anger, frustration and weapons in
the region, left over from the Afghan war, when thousands of extremists
came together to bring a superpower to its knees . . . That militant
network has built up in this region over two decades of conflict. The
president believes America must get deeply involved in South Asia to
crack the terrorist problem, a process Clinton continues throughout
this week.
=85
http://www.kdka.com/now/ story/0,1597,1747

http://www. washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn? pagename=3Darticle&node=3D&
contentId=3DA8734-2002Jan19

http:// www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/ A62725-2001Dec18

http://www.cnn. com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/24/ pentagon.budget/

http://www.cnn. com/US/9604/18/anti.terror.bill/index. html

http://www9.cnn.com/US/9607/ 30/clinton.terrorism/

http://www. fbi.gov/congress/congress99/freehct2. htm

http://online.securityfocus. com/news/201

http://www.prospect. org/webfeatures/2002/01/page-a-01-23. html

http://www.washingtonpost. com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=3Darticle&node=3D&
contentId=3DA61219-2001Oct2


And don't forget how GW stopped ongoing terrorist investigations:

FBI claims Bin Laden inquiry was frustrated
Officials told to 'back off' on Saudis before September 11
Greg Palast and David Pallister
The Guardian Wednesday November 7, 2001
http://www.guardian. co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4293682,00. html

FBI and military intelligence officials in Washington say they were
prevented for political reasons from carrying out full investigations
into members of the Bin Laden family in the US before the terrorist
attacks of September 11.

US intelligence agencies have come under criticism for their wholesale
failure to predict the catastrophe at the World Trade Centre. But some
are complaining that their hands were tied.
=85
They said the restrictions became worse after the Bush administration
took over this year. The intelligence agencies had been told to =93back
off=94 from investigations involving other members of the Bin Laden
family, the Saudi royals, and possible Saudi links to the acquisition
of nuclear weapons by Pakistan.

=93There were particular investigations that were effectively killed.=94
Only after the September 11 attacks was the stance of political and
commercial closeness reversed towards the other members of the large
Bin Laden clan, who have classed Osama bin Laden as their =93black
sheep=94.

Hart-Rudman
Not only did Clinton's actions prevent Y2K terrorist acts (eg, a bomber
headed off on his way to the celebration in Seattle), but much more
occurred in his administration to ward off terrorism ~ only to be
scuttled by the Bushistas:

Commission warned Bush
But White House passed on recommendations by a bipartisan, Defense
department-ordered commission on domestic terrorism.
by Jake Tapper

Sept. 12, 2001 | WASHINGTON -- They went to great pains not to sound as
though they were telling the president =93We told you so.=94

But on Wednesday, two former senators, the bipartisan co-chairs of a
Defense Department-chartered commission on national security, spoke
with something between frustration and regret about how White House
officials failed to embrace any of the recommendations to prevent acts
of domestic terrorism delivered earlier this year.

Bush administration officials told former Sens. Gary Hart, D-Colo., and
Warren Rudman, R-N.H., that they preferred instead to put aside the
recommendations issued in the January report by the U.S. Commission on
National Security/21st Century. Instead, the White House announced in
May that it would have Vice President Dick Cheney study the potential
problem of domestic terrorism -- which the bipartisan group had already
spent two and a half years studying -- while assigning responsibility
for dealing with the issue to the Federal Emergency Management Agency,
headed by former Bush campaign manager Joe Allbaugh.
=85
Before the White House decided to go in its own direction, Congress
seemed to be taking the commission's suggestions seriously, according
to Hart and Rudman. =93Frankly, the White House shut it down,=94 Hart says.
=93The president said 'Please wait, we're going to turn this over to the
vice president. We believe FEMA is competent to coordinate this
effort.' And so Congress moved on to other things, like tax cuts and
the issue of the day.=94

=93We predicted it,=94 Hart says of Tuesday's horrific events. =93We said
Americans will likely die on American soil, possibly in large numbers
-- that's a quote (from the commission's Phase One Report) from the
fall of 1999. =94
=85
http://www.salon.com/politics/ feature/2001/09/12/bush/

The Gore Commission
also known as the White House Commission on Aviation Safety and
Security.
http://www.airportnet.org/ depts/regulatory/gorecom.htm

Here is what seems to have happened to the recomendations of the Gore
Commission:
We begin our news with a quote: =93The federal government should consider
aviation security as a national security issue, and provide substantial
funding for capital improvements. The Commission believes that
terrorist attacks on civil aviation are directed at the United States,
and that there should be an ongoing federal commitment to reducing the
threats that they pose.=94

If you think that comes from a recent Bush White House report, guess
again. In the summer of 1996, shortly after the cra

wrote in message
oups.com...
JimH wrote:

Really? I can think of 3,000 who died on 9-11 thanks to Clinton. I can
also not recall anything he ever did to tray and stop terrorism.......

**********************

Nobody should have to spend the rest of their life so grossly
underinformed:

Gee Chuck, and just how did those actions stop 9-11?

JimH wrote:
Really? I can think of 3,000 who died on 9-11 thanks to Clinton. I
can
also not recall anything he ever did to tray and stop
terrorism.......
**********************
Nobody should have to spend the rest of their life so grossly
underinformed:


Gee Chuck, and just how did those actions stop 9-11?

******************************

If you had the ability to see your own weasly flip-flop here, you'd
(hopefully) be ashamed.

Note: Your first bitch was that you could not "recall anything
(Clinton) ever did to
(try) and stop terrorism...."

After being presented with a long list of actions, including several
that were specifically stonewalled by a Republican congress, and after
being presented with the fact that the Gore Commission specifically
discovered and warned about a credible threat that terrorists were
planning to use hijacked commercial aircraft as weapons against US
facilities....YOU CHANGE THE QUESTION!

You reject the answer to your previous question and then attempt to
pretend that your initial question was whether Clinton had effectively
"stopped" 9-11.

I would say that since 9-11 happened after Clinton no longer had the
power to "stop it" and his successor had been in place for about eight
months- Clinton did a good job of preventing 9-11 on his watch.

You guys have the funniest standards. You are eager to blame the first
terrorist attack that took place *six weeks* after Clinton took office
squarely on Bill Clinton, and you never hear any of the right wing
reactionaries even suggest that Bush the First could have been to blame
in any manner. The attack that took place eight months after your boy
slid into office, (and immediately appointed his campaign manager as
head of anti terrorist operations), that attack?
That has to be the fault of the preceding administration, obviously.

Neo-Conservatism will subside because it is intellectually dishonest.
The kool-aid drinking disciples who fail to recognize that may be
intellectually honest enough in their own right- merely intellectually
challenged.

wrote in message
ups.com...
JimH wrote:
Really? I can think of 3,000 who died on 9-11 thanks to Clinton. I
can
also not recall anything he ever did to tray and stop
terrorism.......
**********************
Nobody should have to spend the rest of their life so grossly
underinformed:


Gee Chuck, and just how did those actions stop 9-11?

******************************

If you had the ability to see your own weasly flip-flop here, you'd
(hopefully) be ashamed.

Note: Your first bitch was that you could not "recall anything
(Clinton) ever did to
(try) and stop terrorism...."

After being presented with a long list of actions, including several
that were specifically stonewalled by a Republican congress, and after
being presented with the fact that the Gore Commission specifically
discovered and warned about a credible threat that terrorists were
planning to use hijacked commercial aircraft as weapons against US
facilities....YOU CHANGE THE QUESTION!

You reject the answer to your previous question and then attempt to
pretend that your initial question was whether Clinton had effectively
"stopped" 9-11.

I would say that since 9-11 happened after Clinton no longer had the
power to "stop it" and his successor had been in place for about eight
months- Clinton did a good job of preventing 9-11 on his watch.

You guys have the funniest standards. You are eager to blame the first
terrorist attack that took place *six weeks* after Clinton took office
squarely on Bill Clinton, and you never hear any of the right wing
reactionaries even suggest that Bush the First could have been to blame
in any manner. The attack that took place eight months after your boy
slid into office, (and immediately appointed his campaign manager as
head of anti terrorist operations), that attack?
That has to be the fault of the preceding administration, obviously.

Neo-Conservatism will subside because it is intellectually dishonest.
The kool-aid drinking disciples who fail to recognize that may be
intellectually honest enough in their own right- merely intellectually
challenged.

wrote in message
ups.com...
JimH wrote:
Really? I can think of 3,000 who died on 9-11 thanks to Clinton. I
can
also not recall anything he ever did to tray and stop
terrorism.......
**********************
Nobody should have to spend the rest of their life so grossly
underinformed:


Gee Chuck, and just how did those actions stop 9-11?

******************************

If you had the ability to see your own weasly flip-flop here, you'd
(hopefully) be ashamed.

Note: Your first bitch was that you could not "recall anything
(Clinton) ever did to
(try) and stop terrorism...."

After being presented with a long list of actions, including several
that were specifically stonewalled by a Republican congress, and after
being presented with the fact that the Gore Commission specifically
discovered and warned about a credible threat that terrorists were
planning to use hijacked commercial aircraft as weapons against US
facilities....YOU CHANGE THE QUESTION!

You reject the answer to your previous question and then attempt to
pretend that your initial question was whether Clinton had effectively
"stopped" 9-11.

I would say that since 9-11 happened after Clinton no longer had the
power to "stop it" and his successor had been in place for about eight
months- Clinton did a good job of preventing 9-11 on his watch.

You guys have the funniest standards. You are eager to blame the first
terrorist attack that took place *six weeks* after Clinton took office
squarely on Bill Clinton, and you never hear any of the right wing
reactionaries even suggest that Bush the First could have been to blame
in any manner. The attack that took place eight months after your boy
slid into office, (and immediately appointed his campaign manager as
head of anti terrorist operations), that attack?
That has to be the fault of the preceding administration, obviously.

Neo-Conservatism will subside because it is intellectually dishonest.
The kool-aid drinking disciples who fail to recognize that may be
intellectually honest enough in their own right- merely intellectually
challenged.


You really need to calm down Chuck. This is just a discussion.

If it makes you feel any better (I don't want you having a heart attack over
this thread) you won this discussion.

Better now?

" Tuuk" wrote in message
news
So what your saying is that those who joined the military are
ignoramuses,,,,


Actually,,,,,,,that's, not what Harry,,,,,,,,,said at all, you pathetic
excuse for a crash test dummy.

JimH wrote:

You really need to calm down Chuck. This is just a discussion.

If it makes you feel any better (I don't want you having a heart attack
over
this thread) you won this discussion.


Better now?


*********

I've been better all along, thanks. :-)

Points to you for recognizing when had painted yourself into a corner.
There's hope you you yet.

Ok krause,,, lets look at what you said,,,

First off,, would you happen to know a chap named Mr. Hoeflich ?? hmmm,, I
do,,, lol,, I do now and he cannot believe what he is learning,, apparently
he used to look up to you,,, lol,,,
And our conversations are just beginning,, I am sending him some cut and
pastes and some other email addresses he has given me,, he thinks some
others may be interested in some of your comments,,,

Second off,,, lets look closer at what you said,, real quick today krause as
I gotta go,,

"'"""DumTuuk is likely to start threatening you and
then show up at your front door and attempt to break it down.''''""


krause,,, you ****ing liar,,, I never once threatened you,,,, you liar,,,
never once,, you invited me to your home,, I found your home and accepted
your invitation.. guess what krause,,, I accept your invitation,,, and I am
looking at very near future krause,,, very near,,, lol,,, and it is my
pleasure,,

"'''"'Bob sez he only
attacks what he eats,''''"


So you threatening to sick your animal on me krause ??? lol,,,,


"'''''and since he converted to Judaism from Buddhism,'""'"


are you retarded krause/???


"'''''So I held a meeting of the other housepets and
Panda, the Siamese, agreed to remove Tuuk's face."""""


hmmmm,,, another threat from krause,,, lol,,,

what would Nathan, Abe or Murray think about that,, lets ask them,,, lol,,,


See you soon krause











"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
" Tuuk" wrote in message
news
So what your saying is that those who joined the military are
ignoramuses,,,,



Actually,,,,,,,that's, not what Harry,,,,,,,,,said at all, you pathetic
excuse for a crash test dummy.

Watch it there, fella. DumTuuk is likely to start threatening you and then
show up at your front door and attempt to break it down. Or, worse, his
equally pooched-in-the-head mother, Karen Smith of Oz, will show up.

I've already discussed Tuuk with Bob, our pet bobcat. Bob sez he only
attacks what he eats, and since he converted to Judaism from Buddhism, he
no longer eats tref. So I held a meeting of the other housepets and Panda,
the Siamese, agreed to remove Tuuk's face.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
snip
I've already discussed Tuuk with Bob, our pet bobcat. Bob sez he only
attacks what he eats, and since he converted to Judaism from Buddhism,
he no longer eats tref. So I held a meeting of the other housepets and
Panda, the Siamese, agreed to remove Tuuk's face.


I'd be more worried about Tuuk eating your pets...probably raw!

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
snip
DumTuuk is a real piece of work, and apparently doesn't realize he is
being egged on and used by the right-wing trashmeisters here he claimed
at one point were supplying him with "information." I should look at a
few of his recent posts to see how crazy he has become.

He has actually calmed down a bit and now is mostly silly. I notice that
his 'handle' is now Tuuuk rather than Tuuk.
Wonder if he got into a spot of trouble for his foolishness over the
holidays.