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OT package arrived
Thanks Harry...the package arrived this morning.
I read your article on the 'Tug of war in the Gulf of Mexico'. Those workers, trying to unionize under current conditions, are the real heroes of the movement. Makes me think how lucky I was to enter a workforce with a good union already in place. Sure the struggle to maintain a good contract was a recurring event, but to start from scratch in a hostile environment...whew! Those pictures were good for a 3.1 mp. My HP 5.1 don't seem a whole lot better. Think I rush the shutter...not holding it halfway down long enough for auto focus, or hold the very light camera steady enough. I'm used to a heavy older manual Minolta SLR. As for the 'need to know' info......don't worry, Tuuk etc. couldn't pry it out of me with a handful of sharpened bamboo sticks. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message Unfortunately, that effort did not succeed, and conditions have gotten worse for them since. The corporations simply fired everyone, knowing that the NLRB during the Bush misAdministration wouldn't uphold labor law. snip That's really bad news.......and people wonder why some early unions were forced to deal with organized crime. When you have both the employer and gov't against you, an an indifferent public, you accept whatever helping hand is offered. |
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message Unfortunately, that effort did not succeed, and conditions have gotten worse for them since. The corporations simply fired everyone, knowing that the NLRB during the Bush misAdministration wouldn't uphold labor law. snip That's really bad news.......and people wonder why some early unions were forced to deal with organized crime. When you have both the employer and gov't against you, an an indifferent public, you accept whatever helping hand is offered. Hehehe. You think organized crime was in it to help the little guy? Organized crime got involved with labor unions for two reasons: 1) so they could get their hands on the millions in union money, and 2) so they could use the unions to strong-arm corrupt politicians into giving their front companies (construction, waste disposal, etc) lucrative no-bid contracts. Harry will of course deny it, but union leaders have been bilking the little guy forever. That's why today, less than 15% of workers are unionized. They finally wised up to the fact that their dues were finding its way into the pockets of corrupt labor leaders. Do you want to know *why* Harry will deny it? Here's why: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/au...ulli-a29.shtml And from another website: " For further information, contact Harry Krause, ULLICO Manager of Corporate Communications at (202) 682-XXXX. " .. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message Unfortunately, that effort did not succeed, and conditions have gotten worse for them since. The corporations simply fired everyone, knowing that the NLRB during the Bush misAdministration wouldn't uphold labor law. snip That's really bad news.......and people wonder why some early unions were forced to deal with organized crime. When you have both the employer and gov't against you, an an indifferent public, you accept whatever helping hand is offered. Hehehe. You think organized crime was in it to help the little guy? Organized crime got involved with labor unions for two reasons: 1) so they could get their hands on the millions in union money, and 2) so they could use the unions to strong-arm corrupt politicians into giving their front companies (construction, waste disposal, etc) lucrative no-bid contracts. Harry will of course deny it, but union leaders have been bilking the little guy forever. That's why today, less than 15% of workers are unionized. They finally wised up to the fact that their dues were finding its way into the pockets of corrupt labor leaders. Do you want to know *why* Harry will deny it? Here's why: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/au...ulli-a29.shtml And from another website: " For further information, contact Harry Krause, ULLICO Manager of Corporate Communications at (202) 682-XXXX. " . ULLICO's Board of Directors cleaned house a long time ago. Not one board member who participated in the so-called "insider stock deal" and who hasn't paid back the corporation is still on the board. So they got to keep the stolen money? The whole "scandal" involved little more than chump change, compared to the excesses of Enron, or most of the big-time drug companies. In its heyday, the Mafia was an organzation of pikers compared to the criminal profits many big corporations steal from the public these days. So it is ok to steal from the members as long as you stay below the amount that Enron stole? |
"NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... Hehehe. You think organized crime was in it to help the little guy? Organized crime got involved with labor unions for two reasons: 1) so they could get their hands on the millions in union money, and 2) so they could use the unions to strong-arm corrupt politicians into giving their front companies (construction, waste disposal, etc) lucrative no-bid contracts. snip I understand organized crime's motives. I'm just saying that when you oppress a group of people long enough, they sometimes resort to desperate means. |
You communists are unemployable,,
That is the reason for your union requirement. You blame the corporations, the business owners, the government ,, what ever,, now why would a business owner treat someone who makes him/her money poorly? You idiots think because you can band together and force the owner out of business that this will solve problems. You morons created the job shortage problems today, you lazy union slobs created the job migration today. You dumb morons were so focused on your own greet that you missed the macro picture, now more labor cooperative countries are laughing,, yes laughing at the west. You dumb lazy unionized slobs stabbed your children's grandchildren right in the back. Because you did have all your contracts, increases, reduced hours, reduced work load, increased holidays, increased breaks etc etc etc,,, you dumb lazy union uneducated slobs do not even see that,,, Give your empty heads a shake.. So,, my original statement is accurate,,, you communists are unemployable,, in a market driven job environment, without your collective muscle and disruptive activities, you would starve, you would have to resort to welfare and allow those who are employable to pay taxes and support you. Just reading your posts, none of you morons can post a post that isn't off topic. You morons have to go against the grain even in a newsgroup such as this. See, like the caller said, you are a small minority and you collectively muscle together to disrupt things,,, 15% is an accurate figure yet that many can ruin it for the whole bunch and you dumb ****ing lazy union slobs have ruined a country to a point where you ignorant ****ers can only blame the president at this point,,, lol,,, see how totally ignorant and mindless you totally worthless fat union slobs are??? I bet you don't see it and come back with a further off topic negative insult towards me to try and take direct focus off you idiots who both started the problem and ruined things for everyone,,, including your own children, their children and their children. No wonder krause's own children will not even associate with him, they probably picketed outside the home,,, refused to do dishes or clean their room, then krause fired them and now they do not associate,,,, lol,,, I bet there is a connection,,, "Don White" wrote in message ... Thanks Harry...the package arrived this morning. I read your article on the 'Tug of war in the Gulf of Mexico'. Those workers, trying to unionize under current conditions, are the real heroes of the movement. Makes me think how lucky I was to enter a workforce with a good union already in place. Sure the struggle to maintain a good contract was a recurring event, but to start from scratch in a hostile environment...whew! Those pictures were good for a 3.1 mp. My HP 5.1 don't seem a whole lot better. Think I rush the shutter...not holding it halfway down long enough for auto focus, or hold the very light camera steady enough. I'm used to a heavy older manual Minolta SLR. As for the 'need to know' info......don't worry, Tuuk etc. couldn't pry it out of me with a handful of sharpened bamboo sticks. |
NOYB wrote:
Hehehe. You think organized crime was in it to help the little guy? Organized crime got involved with labor unions for two reasons: 1) so they could get their hands on the millions in union money, and 2) so they could use the unions to strong-arm corrupt politicians into giving their front companies (construction, waste disposal, etc) lucrative no-bid contracts. ************* Ohmigosh. How does that compare to a company installing a board member as VPOTUS so it could get its hand on billions in government money, or that same company encouraging the invasion of a third nation so it could receive a lucrative, no-bid reconstruction contract? Is that as criminal as "organized crime"? |
" Tuuk" wrote in message ... snip load of garbage ,,, lol,,, see how totally ignorant and mindless you totally worthless fat union slobs are??? I bet you don't see it and come back with a further off topic negative insult towards me to try and take direct focus off you idiots who both started the problem and ruined things for everyone snip more garbage Why would anyone want to direct a 'negative insult' at a fine fellow like you? I would try to send 'positive' insults that might show you the error of your ways and encourage you to change. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: "NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... Hehehe. You think organized crime was in it to help the little guy? Organized crime got involved with labor unions for two reasons: 1) so they could get their hands on the millions in union money, and 2) so they could use the unions to strong-arm corrupt politicians into giving their front companies (construction, waste disposal, etc) lucrative no-bid contracts. snip I understand organized crime's motives. I'm just saying that when you oppress a group of people long enough, they sometimes resort to desperate means. Speaking of organized crime, ever seen some of the topics discussed at a dental convention regarding price fixing and gouging? I must have missed that convention. Do tell. Which convention did you attend, Harry? |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Calif Bill wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message So they got to keep the stolen money? The matters were being litigated. I don't know the status of the lawsuits. So it is ok to steal from the members as long as you stay below the amount that Enron stole? Have another Bud Lite, Bile. So it is ok to steal from the members as long as you stay below the amount that Enron stole? |
you idiot
you are too ****ing stupid,,, you starve,, that is because you haven't a skill set or a talent that is in demand, like you morons,,, Ok,,, go ahead,, fling your mud,,, call the names,, what hurts you morons is the facts,,, *** That's interesting. Those who fling mud, call names and blather on without facts are morons? Guess what- you're screwed up in a major way if you hope to imagine that your insults are based on any sort of fact. I'm not a union member. Was once, briefly, 30 years ago. I certainly don't starve, don't work for the annual sum you imagine I earn (last made that kind of money about 25 years ago and now do substantially better). I have skills that are in demand and pay me extremely well, I'm far from 78 years old, I don't hate Asians,.....and I could go on and on. Care to be absolutely wrong in any more characterizations, or have you put your foot in your mouth far enough for one day? |
wrote in message oups.com... you idiot you are too ****ing stupid,,, you starve,, that is because you haven't a skill set or a talent that is in demand, like you morons,,, Ok,,, go ahead,, fling your mud,,, call the names,, what hurts you morons is the facts,,, *** That's interesting. Those who fling mud, call names and blather on without facts are morons? Guess what- you're screwed up in a major way if you hope to imagine that your insults are based on any sort of fact. I'm not a union member. Was once, briefly, 30 years ago. I certainly don't starve, don't work for the annual sum you imagine I earn (last made that kind of money about 25 years ago and now do substantially better). I have skills that are in demand and pay me extremely well, I'm far from 78 years old, I don't hate Asians,.....and I could go on and on. Care to be absolutely wrong in any more characterizations, or have you put your foot in your mouth far enough for one day? Hey, Chuck, I don't know if you are aware that when you post (apparently from an AOL account) my newsreader does not apply any kind of markings, lines or indicators to delineate a referenced prior post as a quoted section. The result is, at first glance, that the entire post originated from you. The post above is a good example. When first opened, it appeared that the quoted portion was authored by you, when it obviously came from one of the current NG fruitcakes. Note the wrote in message " at the top, that then leads directly to the fruitcake's prior post. Eisboch |
"Don White" wrote in message ... "NOYB" wrote in message nk.net... Hehehe. You think organized crime was in it to help the little guy? Organized crime got involved with labor unions for two reasons: 1) so they could get their hands on the millions in union money, and 2) so they could use the unions to strong-arm corrupt politicians into giving their front companies (construction, waste disposal, etc) lucrative no-bid contracts. snip I understand organized crime's motives. I'm just saying that when you oppress a group of people long enough, they sometimes resort to desperate means. So, when are you Canadians going to rise up and throw off the shackles of oppressive taxes. Oops, you don't own guns, you are screwed. |
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 02:51:36 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: wrote in message roups.com... you idiot you are too ****ing stupid,,, you starve,, that is because you haven't a skill set or a talent that is in demand, like you morons,,, Ok,,, go ahead,, fling your mud,,, call the names,, what hurts you morons is the facts,,, *** That's interesting. Those who fling mud, call names and blather on without facts are morons? Guess what- you're screwed up in a major way if you hope to imagine that your insults are based on any sort of fact. I'm not a union member. Was once, briefly, 30 years ago. I certainly don't starve, don't work for the annual sum you imagine I earn (last made that kind of money about 25 years ago and now do substantially better). I have skills that are in demand and pay me extremely well, I'm far from 78 years old, I don't hate Asians,.....and I could go on and on. Care to be absolutely wrong in any more characterizations, or have you put your foot in your mouth far enough for one day? Hey, Chuck, I don't know if you are aware that when you post (apparently from an AOL account) my newsreader does not apply any kind of markings, lines or indicators to delineate a referenced prior post as a quoted section. The result is, at first glance, that the entire post originated from you. The post above is a good example. When first opened, it appeared that the quoted portion was authored by you, when it obviously came from one of the current NG fruitcakes. Note the wrote in message " at the top, that then leads directly to the fruitcake's prior post. Eisboch Ditto. I was wondering about you while reading that last post, Chuck. I thought we had a new Tuuk, basskisser, or Harry on our hands. In Agent, if that's what you're using, the changes to how quoted portions are treated is under Options, Posting Preferences. John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes |
1 Attachment(s)
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message Unfortunately, that effort did not succeed, and conditions have gotten worse for them since. The corporations simply fired everyone, knowing that the NLRB during the Bush misAdministration wouldn't uphold labor law. snip That's really bad news.......and people wonder why some early unions were forced to deal with organized crime. When you have both the employer and gov't against you, an an indifferent public, you accept whatever helping hand is offered. "Helping hand" you say? Lawsuit says corruption rampant in Jersey union No-show jobs, nepotism, mob ties cited Thursday, January 13, 2005 BY TED SHERMAN Star-Ledger Staff Some of the highest-paying jobs at Local 734 of the Laborers' International Union of North America -- which represents thousands of workers in New Jersey and Pennsylvania -- had little to do with digging ditches. There was the wife of one former union official, who was hired after her husband was convicted on federal labor law violations for attempting to create a no-show job. She received $111,799 to come in twice a week to listen to voice mail messages from members with benefits questions, according to court records. Then there was the accountant who paid his mother-in-law $650 a week for part-time work as a bookkeeper while charging the local's pension and welfare funds $182,000 a year for her services, an independent hearing officer concluded. And the business partner of another former official who was hired as the office manager of a satellite office at the Jersey Shore and paid $123,500 to supervise two people. The Laborers' union now is seeking a federal investigation into the New Jersey local, claiming that members were defrauded of more than $2 million in a scheme that saw the hiring of relatives and business cronies to perform "non-essential, part-time and ruse jobs at grossly excessive salaries." Trustees for the Washington, D.C.-based union -- who are seeking damages from current and former officials, and want to remove the leadership of the local -- also alleged that some officials of the local who controlled millions in funds had ties to organized crime. The Laborers' union, with more than 850,000 members across the United States and Canada, represents mostly building or highway construction workers, but its members also work in public employment, environmental remediation, health care, food service and custodial services. Local 734, with business offices in Rochelle Park, has 3,500 members in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. In a lawsuit filed last week in U.S. District Court in Newark, the trustees said Local 734 was riddled with no-show jobs and ill-defined, overpaid positions -- many of them connected to former executive board member August "Auggie" Vergalito, who left the local after he pleaded guilty in 1997 to unlawfully concealing payments he made from the welfare and educational fund. Among those who benefited included his wife, a daughter, three sons-in-law, a former son-in-law and two business associates, the lawsuit claimed. Attorneys for some of the Local 734 officials named in the complaint yesterday denied there were abuses within the pension and welfare funds. "They are asserting that the funds hired people who were really not essential, and paid them too much. We are asserting they all had a particular function with the fund, and were paid a higher salary to keep them," said David Grossman, an attorney for Peter Rizzo, the local's funds administrator. Grossman said the union's trustees were trying to take over the two funds, which total more than $100 million, and merge them with other funds that are not doing so well. "That's what it's all about. It's a money grab," Grossman said. Vincent M. Giblin, an attorney for the trustees, however, said it was all about fraud. He said it was inconceivable that the officials of the local did not know that inflated salaries were going to nonessential jobs. "Nepotism is not a license to commit fraud," Giblin said. In New Jersey, an independent hearing officer for the union, Peter F. Vaira, the former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, concluded that most of the jobs held by Vergalito's family and friends were of little value to the union's operation. He called it a scheme to defraud the funds and Local 734. For example, he noted that Jamie Dolan -- a daughter of Vergalito who was married to Edward Dolan, a Local 734 official -- was hired as a confidential officer for the local after her husband was convicted in 1995 on federal embezzlement charges. Jamie Dolan's job required her to be on call from Friday through Monday, and listen to voice mail messages from members trying to resolve benefits questions. "In reality, she came into the office and took the messages off the voice mail two days a week," Vaira found. In 2003, she responded to 109 calls -- earning a salary of $111,799. "This averages to approximately two calls per week, at approximately $1,000 a call," Vaira said in his findings, which were filed with the federal lawsuit. According to Vaira, Vergalito's wife, Rhoda, was employed as a Local 734 confidential officer to replace her husband when he was forced to leave, initially for a salary of $1,000 a week to work from 5:30 p.m. to midnight Tuesday through Friday. Vaira also cited the hiring of Isaac Barocus, a business partner of Vergalito in a taxi and limousine service, to become the office manager of a satellite office in Brick. "Barocus was paid $123,500 to oversee two other persons whose duties were at best minimal," Vaira said. Two other women were employed as clerks for 10 hours a week at $47 per hour. According to Vaira's finding, "grossly excessive salaries for nonessential or part-time jobs" resulted in the local's welfare pension fund spending 40 cents of every dollar for administrative costs. The normal administrative costs are between 7 percent and 10 percent, he said. The hearing officer also raised questions about the local's connections to organized crime. According to Vaira, Vergalito was observed by an FBI surveillance team entering the Soho Grand Hotel in New York about the same time as Dominick Cirillo, identified then as the acting boss of the Genovese crime family. He said Vergalito was seen at the hotel on at least 13 separate occasions in 1999 -- often on Wednesdays -- and was seen in the company of Cirillo at the hotel bar at least once. "The facts disclosed in this record are a disgrace to the labor movement," said Vaira, who ordered his findings forwarded to the FBI and U.S. attorney for New Jersey. But Angelo R. Bisceglie Jr., another attorney representing Local 734 officials, said the trustees' case will be refuted when his clients get to make their case in U.S. District Court next month. "We're looking forward to the court hearing. That's when it will all come out," he said. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message Unfortunately, that effort did not succeed, and conditions have gotten worse for them since. The corporations simply fired everyone, knowing that the NLRB during the Bush misAdministration wouldn't uphold labor law. snip That's really bad news.......and people wonder why some early unions were forced to deal with organized crime. When you have both the employer and gov't against you, an an indifferent public, you accept whatever helping hand is offered. "Helping hand" you say? Lawsuit says corruption rampant in Jersey union No-show jobs, nepotism, mob ties cited Thursday, January 13, 2005 BY TED SHERMAN Star-Ledger Staff Some of the highest-paying jobs at Local 734 of the Laborers' International Union of North America -- which represents thousands of workers in New Jersey and Pennsylvania -- had little to do with digging ditches. Now, that's a stupid lead. Very few LIUNA jobs these days have anything to do with digging ditches. There was the wife of one former union official, who was hired after her husband was convicted on federal labor law violations for attempting to create a no-show job. She received $111,799 to come in twice a week to listen to voice mail messages from members with benefits questions, according to court records. She needs to be prosecuted and if convicted, sent to jail. The Laborers' union now is seeking a federal investigation into the New Jersey local, claiming that members were defrauded of more than $2 million in a scheme that saw the hiring of relatives and business cronies to perform "non-essential, part-time and ruse jobs at grossly excessive salaries." That's the appropriate response by an International and usually what happens. And, despite the fact that some officials of that local were corrupt and were removed, there are thousands of corrupt corporate execs in NJ fleecing the public. You might want to look more closely at the bill you get from your dentist: The Office of the Inspector General (OIG) of the Department of Defense (DoD) announced today that on July 17, 2002, Ralph J. Sharow, a Freehold, NJ, dentist, was sentenced in U.S. District Court, Newark, NJ, to 27 months in prison and 3 years probation on each count, to run concurrently; restitution of $264,363.90; and a special assessment fee of $200. The sentence was handed down by U.S. District Court Judge William H. Walls. This sentence is the result of a guilty plea that Sharow entered on January 16, 2002. Sharow pled guilty to a two-count criminal information charging him with one count of health care fraud and one count of income tax evasion. An investigation revealed that from as early as 1994, Sharow, who operates a dental practice at 1 Stonehurst Boulevard, Freehold, NJ, defrauded the DoD insurance program known as TRICARE and private dental insurance programs out of approximately $200,000 by billing for services that he did not provide. The TRICARE loss alone totaled approximately $20,000. Furthermore, for the years of 1995, 1996, and 1997 combined, Sharow evaded $392,998 in federal income tax by submitting false tax returns to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). In the 3 years combined, Sharow underreported his income by $915,648. January 2002 On January 16, 2002, Ralph J. Sharow, DDS, a Freehold, NJ dentist, pled guilty, in U.S. District Court, Newark, NJ to one-charge of both health care fraud and income tax evasion. According to a report from Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS), Dr. Sharow filed fraudulent claims with various dental insurance programs, defrauding these programs out of approximately $200,000 by billing for services not rendered. Among the dental insurance programs defrauded were the TRICARE Family Member Dental Program (TFMDP), administered internationally by United Concordia for the Department of Defense (DoD). The TFMDP has been replaced by the TRICARE Dental Program (TDP), also administered by United Concordia, providing dental benefits to dependents of active duty uniformed services personnel, including Reservists and their families. Dr. Sharow first came to the attention of United Concordia's Special Investigations Unit (SIU) as a result of a complaint from one of his patients. The subsequent investigation revealed that, as early as 1994, Dr. Sharow defrauded the TRICARE and commercial dental insurance programs, while evading more than $390,000 in federal income taxes by submitting false tax returns to the Internal Revenue Services (IRS). Initially, based on fraud allegations received by DCIS from SIU, the investigation revealed that Dr. Sharow routinely billed United Concordia and other insurers for dental procedures, primarily composite restorations and sealants, which he never performed. On April 29, 2002, Dr. Sharow is scheduled to be sentenced. He faces up to ten years in prison and a $250,000 fine on the health care fraud count and a maximum of five years in prison and a $100,000 fine on the income tax evasion count. On June 1, 2001, James Paul Kalhorn, D.D.S., was sentenced in Federal District Court, Denver, CO, to 2 years probation and ordered to pay $25,000 in restitution and a $5,000 fine. On February 15, 2001, Kalhorn pled guilty to a one-count information charging him with making or causing to be made a false statement or representation involving a Federal Health Care program. A previous indictment was dismissed upon Kalhorn's plea to the indictment. The investigation was conducted jointly by the Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS), the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and with the assistance of United Concordia's Special Investigation's Unit (SIU). The prosecution was handled by the United States Attorney's Office, District of Colorado. On February 15, 2001, James Paul Kalhorn, D.D.S., plead guilty to making or causing to be made a false statement or representations involving a Federal health care program. A previous indictment was dismissed upon Kalhorn's plea. Between January 1996 and December 1999, Kalhorn submitted numerous claims to TRICARE's contracted dental carrier, United Concordia Companies, Inc., Great-West Life, and Delta Dental for periodontal scaling and root planing that according to medical reviews, were not necessary. The procedure is performed and billed in segments of the mouth, or quadrants. Kalhorn submitted claims for quadrants of root planing and scaling for dates of service when patients were not present. Kalhorn also submitted claims for periodontal pocket depth charts for scaling and root planing that contained measurements, patients said were not performed by Kalhorn. In June 1998, a Fairfield, California dentist plead guilty to a felony health care fraud and paid over a half-million dollars to settle federal civil charges. United Concordia during a routine review of utilization statistics, detected billing irregularities that ultimately led to federal prosecution. The case was one of the first in the nation to be prosecuted under the Kennedy-Kassenbaum federal health care statute. Who knows what we'll be reading about Naples, Florida, dentists, eh? Touche. ;-) But I don't bill insurance companies. I bill the patients...and those who have insurance (less than 40% of my patients) then submit a claim to the insurance company for reimbursement. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message Unfortunately, that effort did not succeed, and conditions have gotten worse for them since. The corporations simply fired everyone, knowing that the NLRB during the Bush misAdministration wouldn't uphold labor law. snip That's really bad news.......and people wonder why some early unions were forced to deal with organized crime. When you have both the employer and gov't against you, an an indifferent public, you accept whatever helping hand is offered. "Helping hand" you say? Lawsuit says corruption rampant in Jersey union No-show jobs, nepotism, mob ties cited Thursday, January 13, 2005 BY TED SHERMAN Star-Ledger Staff Some of the highest-paying jobs at Local 734 of the Laborers' International Union of North America -- which represents thousands of workers in New Jersey and Pennsylvania -- had little to do with digging ditches. Now, that's a stupid lead. Very few LIUNA jobs these days have anything to do with digging ditches. There was the wife of one former union official, who was hired after her husband was convicted on federal labor law violations for attempting to create a no-show job. She received $111,799 to come in twice a week to listen to voice mail messages from members with benefits questions, according to court records. She needs to be prosecuted and if convicted, sent to jail. The Laborers' union now is seeking a federal investigation into the New Jersey local, claiming that members were defrauded of more than $2 million in a scheme that saw the hiring of relatives and business cronies to perform "non-essential, part-time and ruse jobs at grossly excessive salaries." That's the appropriate response by an International and usually what happens. And, despite the fact that some officials of that local were corrupt and were removed, there are thousands of corrupt corporate execs in NJ fleecing the public. You might want to look more closely at the bill you get from your dentist: The Office of the Inspector General (OIG) of the Department of Defense (DoD) announced today that on July 17, 2002, Ralph J. Sharow, a Freehold, NJ, dentist, was sentenced in U.S. District Court, Newark, NJ, to 27 months in prison and 3 years probation on each count, to run concurrently; restitution of $264,363.90; and a special assessment fee of $200. The sentence was handed down by U.S. District Court Judge William H. Walls. This sentence is the result of a guilty plea that Sharow entered on January 16, 2002. Sharow pled guilty to a two-count criminal information charging him with one count of health care fraud and one count of income tax evasion. Who knows what we'll be reading about Naples, Florida, dentists, eh? Touche. ;-) But I don't bill insurance companies. I bill the patients...and those who have insurance (less than 40% of my patients) then submit a claim to the insurance company for reimbursement. And though I tease you about it (and you deserve being teased), I don't for a moment think you are anything other than a upstanding medical practitioner. The fact that you weren't bright enough to get a degree in English and had to settle for a medical degree shouldn't be held against you. I've been involved in the labor union movement for a long, long time. I knew Jimmy Hoffa in Detroit because of politics, not because of any work, though. I also knew Roy Williams from my days at the KC Star, and Jackie Presser because when he was the exec running communications at the IBT, he tried to recruit me to handle the marketing, advertising and PR for its farm worker campaign. I wasn't interested, but I thought Jackie was. I've only met the current IBT president, I've never worked for him. I did consulting work for LIUNA when Angelo Fosco was its general president. Angie was "connected," but not the Chicago kingpin as the Justice Department made him out to be. Angie was a prince of a fellow in terms of personal relationships (I attended his marriage to his second wife - he was a widower), but he simply was not bright enough to be any sort of Mafia chieftain, at least not a Chicago chieftain. Angelo's son, though, is a felon. I also knew Angelo's father, Peter Fosco, whom I met when he was close to 80. Peter was a genius, and at one time, it was reputed, a partner of Al Capone. There's no question those two unions, the IBT and LIUNA, were corrupt as could be in those days, but they aren't now. I know the current LIUNA president, Terry O'Sullivan, and he is tough and straight. He would not hesitate a moment to have arrested any LIUNA official, local or international, who is dishonest. He's done it any number of times. You may not know this, but union officials are bonded. If they dip into the cash register, the bonding company has to make good the loss, and the bonding companies ALWAYS force prosecution. In any event, none of the union officials I have ever known, and I have known some doozies, have ever caused this country the amount of harm that George W. Bush has, and none has ever stolen anywhere near the amount of money that Bush or his neoconvicts have. And yes, I consider Bush's shennanigans in Texas while he was a "businessman" theft...and I consider what Halliburton does theft. There was a reason why union officials had to be tough guys...and in my mind, there still is a reason. The corporations who oppose them play much tougher and rougher...they simply wear better suits. I have two patients who are now each other's best friend despite 35 years of verbally (and sometimes physically) abusing one another when they lived up North. One owned a trucking company, and the other was the top union official for the union representing the company's drivers. They absolutely hated each other, their families hated each other, and the police had to be brought in on more than one occasion to quell a near-physical confrontation. Now, they go out to shows, to movies, and out to dinner together. |
NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message Unfortunately, that effort did not succeed, and conditions have gotten worse for them since. The corporations simply fired everyone, knowing that the NLRB during the Bush misAdministration wouldn't uphold labor law. snip That's really bad news.......and people wonder why some early unions were forced to deal with organized crime. When you have both the employer and gov't against you, an an indifferent public, you accept whatever helping hand is offered. "Helping hand" you say? Lawsuit says corruption rampant in Jersey union No-show jobs, nepotism, mob ties cited Thursday, January 13, 2005 BY TED SHERMAN Star-Ledger Staff Some of the highest-paying jobs at Local 734 of the Laborers' International Union of North America -- which represents thousands of workers in New Jersey and Pennsylvania -- had little to do with digging ditches. Now, that's a stupid lead. Very few LIUNA jobs these days have anything to do with digging ditches. There was the wife of one former union official, who was hired after her husband was convicted on federal labor law violations for attempting to create a no-show job. She received $111,799 to come in twice a week to listen to voice mail messages from members with benefits questions, according to court records. She needs to be prosecuted and if convicted, sent to jail. The Laborers' union now is seeking a federal investigation into the New Jersey local, claiming that members were defrauded of more than $2 million in a scheme that saw the hiring of relatives and business cronies to perform "non-essential, part-time and ruse jobs at grossly excessive salaries." That's the appropriate response by an International and usually what happens. And, despite the fact that some officials of that local were corrupt and were removed, there are thousands of corrupt corporate execs in NJ fleecing the public. You might want to look more closely at the bill you get from your dentist: The Office of the Inspector General (OIG) of the Department of Defense (DoD) announced today that on July 17, 2002, Ralph J. Sharow, a Freehold, NJ, dentist, was sentenced in U.S. District Court, Newark, NJ, to 27 months in prison and 3 years probation on each count, to run concurrently; restitution of $264,363.90; and a special assessment fee of $200. The sentence was handed down by U.S. District Court Judge William H. Walls. This sentence is the result of a guilty plea that Sharow entered on January 16, 2002. Sharow pled guilty to a two-count criminal information charging him with one count of health care fraud and one count of income tax evasion. Who knows what we'll be reading about Naples, Florida, dentists, eh? Touche. ;-) But I don't bill insurance companies. I bill the patients...and those who have insurance (less than 40% of my patients) then submit a claim to the insurance company for reimbursement. And though I tease you about it (and you deserve being teased), I don't for a moment think you are anything other than a upstanding medical practitioner. The fact that you weren't bright enough to get a degree in English and had to settle for a medical degree shouldn't be held against you. I've been involved in the labor union movement for a long, long time. I knew Jimmy Hoffa in Detroit because of politics, not because of any work, though. I also knew Roy Williams from my days at the KC Star, and Jackie Presser because when he was the exec running communications at the IBT, he tried to recruit me to handle the marketing, advertising and PR for its farm worker campaign. I wasn't interested, but I thought Jackie was. I've only met the current IBT president, I've never worked for him. I did consulting work for LIUNA when Angelo Fosco was its general president. Angie was "connected," but not the Chicago kingpin as the Justice Department made him out to be. Angie was a prince of a fellow in terms of personal relationships (I attended his marriage to his second wife - he was a widower), but he simply was not bright enough to be any sort of Mafia chieftain, at least not a Chicago chieftain. Angelo's son, though, is a felon. I also knew Angelo's father, Peter Fosco, whom I met when he was close to 80. Peter was a genius, and at one time, it was reputed, a partner of Al Capone. There's no question those two unions, the IBT and LIUNA, were corrupt as could be in those days, but they aren't now. I know the current LIUNA president, Terry O'Sullivan, and he is tough and straight. He would not hesitate a moment to have arrested any LIUNA official, local or international, who is dishonest. He's done it any number of times. You may not know this, but union officials are bonded. If they dip into the a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=cash%20register" onmouseover="window.status='cash register'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;"cash register/a, the bonding company has to make good the loss, and the bonding companies ALWAYS force prosecution. In any event, none of the union officials I have ever known, and I have known some doozies, have ever caused this country the amount of harm that George W. Bush has, and none has ever stolen anywhere near the amount of money that Bush or his neoconvicts have. And yes, I consider Bush's shennanigans in Texas while he was a "businessman" theft...and I consider what Halliburton does theft. There was a reason why union officials had to be tough guys...and in my mind, there still is a reason. The corporations who oppose them play much tougher and rougher...they simply wear better suits. I have two patients who are now each other's best friend despite 35 years of verbally (and sometimes physically) abusing one another when they lived up North. One owned a trucking company, and the other was the top union official for the union representing the company's drivers. They absolutely hated each other, their families hated each other, and the police had to be brought in on more than one occasion to quell a near-physical confrontation. Now, they go out to shows, to movies, and out to dinner together. Because they are too old to do anything else. There pacemakers won't keep pace if they get out of their Lil' Rascals.... |
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:11:58 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message Unfortunately, that effort did not succeed, and conditions have gotten worse for them since. The corporations simply fired everyone, knowing that the NLRB during the Bush misAdministration wouldn't uphold labor law. snip That's really bad news.......and people wonder why some early unions were forced to deal with organized crime. When you have both the employer and gov't against you, an an indifferent public, you accept whatever helping hand is offered. "Helping hand" you say? Lawsuit says corruption rampant in Jersey union No-show jobs, nepotism, mob ties cited Thursday, January 13, 2005 BY TED SHERMAN Star-Ledger Staff Some of the highest-paying jobs at Local 734 of the Laborers' International Union of North America -- which represents thousands of workers in New Jersey and Pennsylvania -- had little to do with digging ditches. Now, that's a stupid lead. Very few LIUNA jobs these days have anything to do with digging ditches. There was the wife of one former union official, who was hired after her husband was convicted on federal labor law violations for attempting to create a no-show job. She received $111,799 to come in twice a week to listen to voice mail messages from members with benefits questions, according to court records. She needs to be prosecuted and if convicted, sent to jail. The Laborers' union now is seeking a federal investigation into the New Jersey local, claiming that members were defrauded of more than $2 million in a scheme that saw the hiring of relatives and business cronies to perform "non-essential, part-time and ruse jobs at grossly excessive salaries." That's the appropriate response by an International and usually what happens. And, despite the fact that some officials of that local were corrupt and were removed, there are thousands of corrupt corporate execs in NJ fleecing the public. You might want to look more closely at the bill you get from your dentist: The Office of the Inspector General (OIG) of the Department of Defense (DoD) announced today that on July 17, 2002, Ralph J. Sharow, a Freehold, NJ, dentist, was sentenced in U.S. District Court, Newark, NJ, to 27 months in prison and 3 years probation on each count, to run concurrently; restitution of $264,363.90; and a special assessment fee of $200. The sentence was handed down by U.S. District Court Judge William H. Walls. This sentence is the result of a guilty plea that Sharow entered on January 16, 2002. Sharow pled guilty to a two-count criminal information charging him with one count of health care fraud and one count of income tax evasion. Who knows what we'll be reading about Naples, Florida, dentists, eh? Touche. ;-) But I don't bill insurance companies. I bill the patients...and those who have insurance (less than 40% of my patients) then submit a claim to the insurance company for reimbursement. And though I tease you about it (and you deserve being teased), I don't for a moment think you are anything other than a upstanding medical practitioner. The fact that you weren't bright enough to get a degree in English and had to settle for a medical degree shouldn't be held against you. I've been involved in the labor union movement for a long, long time. I knew Jimmy Hoffa in Detroit because of politics, not because of any work, though. I also knew Roy Williams from my days at the KC Star, and Jackie Presser because when he was the exec running communications at the IBT, he tried to recruit me to handle the marketing, advertising and PR for its farm worker campaign. I wasn't interested, but I thought Jackie was. I've only met the current IBT president, I've never worked for him. I did consulting work for LIUNA when Angelo Fosco was its general president. Angie was "connected," but not the Chicago kingpin as the Justice Department made him out to be. Angie was a prince of a fellow in terms of personal relationships (I attended his marriage to his second wife - he was a widower), but he simply was not bright enough to be any sort of Mafia chieftain, at least not a Chicago chieftain. Angelo's son, though, is a felon. I also knew Angelo's father, Peter Fosco, whom I met when he was close to 80. Peter was a genius, and at one time, it was reputed, a partner of Al Capone. There's no question those two unions, the IBT and LIUNA, were corrupt as could be in those days, but they aren't now. I know the current LIUNA president, Terry O'Sullivan, and he is tough and straight. He would not hesitate a moment to have arrested any LIUNA official, local or international, who is dishonest. He's done it any number of times. You may not know this, but union officials are bonded. If they dip into the cash register, the bonding company has to make good the loss, and the bonding companies ALWAYS force prosecution. In any event, none of the union officials I have ever known, and I have known some doozies, have ever caused this country the amount of harm that George W. Bush has, and none has ever stolen anywhere near the amount of money that Bush or his neoconvicts have. And yes, I consider Bush's shennanigans in Texas while he was a "businessman" theft...and I consider what Halliburton does theft. There was a reason why union officials had to be tough guys...and in my mind, there still is a reason. The corporations who oppose them play much tougher and rougher...they simply wear better suits. I have two patients who are now each other's best friend despite 35 years of verbally (and sometimes physically) abusing one another when they lived up North. One owned a trucking company, and the other was the top union official for the union representing the company's drivers. They absolutely hated each other, their families hated each other, and the police had to be brought in on more than one occasion to quell a near-physical confrontation. Now, they go out to shows, to movies, and out to dinner together. If you keep it up, Harry may invite you for a ride on his boat. Don't turn him down, or he'll turn nasty! John H On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes |
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:41:32 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: NOYB wrote: "Don White" wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message Unfortunately, that effort did not succeed, and conditions have gotten worse for them since. The corporations simply fired everyone, knowing that the NLRB during the Bush misAdministration wouldn't uphold labor law. snip That's really bad news.......and people wonder why some early unions were forced to deal with organized crime. When you have both the employer and gov't against you, an an indifferent public, you accept whatever helping hand is offered. "Helping hand" you say? Lawsuit says corruption rampant in Jersey union No-show jobs, nepotism, mob ties cited Thursday, January 13, 2005 BY TED SHERMAN Star-Ledger Staff Some of the highest-paying jobs at Local 734 of the Laborers' International Union of North America -- which represents thousands of workers in New Jersey and Pennsylvania -- had little to do with digging ditches. The Laborers' union now is seeking a federal investigation into the New Jersey local, claiming that members were defrauded of more than $2 million in a scheme that saw the hiring of relatives and business cronies to perform "non-essential, part-time and ruse jobs at grossly excessive salaries." That's the appropriate response by an International and usually what happens. And, despite the fact that some officials of that local were corrupt and were removed, there are thousands of corrupt corporate execs in NJ fleecing the public. Hmmm, so because another person or group is corrupt, that should excuse this union for doing similar. Heck, you condemn the whole FBI for the actions of a few of it's employees, yet you come up with all sort of excuses for these corrupt unions? Typical hypocrisy. You might want to look more closely at the bill you get from your dentist: The Office of the Inspector General (OIG) of the Department of Defense (DoD) announced today that on July 17, 2002, Ralph J. Sharow, a Freehold, NJ, dentist, was sentenced in U.S. District Court, Newark, NJ, to 27 months in prison and 3 years probation on each count, to run concurrently; restitution of $264,363.90; and a special assessment fee of $200. The sentence was handed down by U.S. District Court Judge William H. Walls. This sentence is the result of a guilty plea that Sharow entered on January 16, 2002. Sharow pled guilty to a two-count criminal information charging him with one count of health care fraud and one count of income tax evasion. An investigation revealed that from as early as 1994, Sharow, who operates a dental practice at 1 Stonehurst Boulevard, Freehold, NJ, defrauded the DoD insurance program known as TRICARE and private dental insurance programs out of approximately $200,000 by billing for services that he did not provide. The TRICARE loss alone totaled approximately $20,000. Furthermore, for the years of 1995, 1996, and 1997 combined, Sharow evaded $392,998 in federal income tax by submitting false tax returns to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). In the 3 years combined, Sharow underreported his income by $915,648. January 2002 On January 16, 2002, Ralph J. Sharow, DDS, a Freehold, NJ dentist, pled guilty, in U.S. District Court, Newark, NJ to one-charge of both health care fraud and income tax evasion. According to a report from Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS), Dr. Sharow filed fraudulent claims with various dental insurance programs, defrauding these programs out of approximately $200,000 by billing for services not rendered. Among the dental insurance programs defrauded were the TRICARE Family Member Dental Program (TFMDP), administered internationally by United Concordia for the Department of Defense (DoD). The TFMDP has been replaced by the TRICARE Dental Program (TDP), also administered by United Concordia, providing dental benefits to dependents of active duty uniformed services personnel, including Reservists and their families. Dr. Sharow first came to the attention of United Concordia's Special Investigations Unit (SIU) as a result of a complaint from one of his patients. The subsequent investigation revealed that, as early as 1994, Dr. Sharow defrauded the TRICARE and commercial dental insurance programs, while evading more than $390,000 in federal income taxes by submitting false tax returns to the Internal Revenue Services (IRS). Initially, based on fraud allegations received by DCIS from SIU, the investigation revealed that Dr. Sharow routinely billed United Concordia and other insurers for dental procedures, primarily composite restorations and sealants, which he never performed. On April 29, 2002, Dr. Sharow is scheduled to be sentenced. He faces up to ten years in prison and a $250,000 fine on the health care fraud count and a maximum of five years in prison and a $100,000 fine on the income tax evasion count. On June 1, 2001, James Paul Kalhorn, D.D.S., was sentenced in Federal District Court, Denver, CO, to 2 years probation and ordered to pay $25,000 in restitution and a $5,000 fine. On February 15, 2001, Kalhorn pled guilty to a one-count information charging him with making or causing to be made a false statement or representation involving a Federal Health Care program. A previous indictment was dismissed upon Kalhorn's plea to the indictment. The investigation was conducted jointly by the Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS), the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and with the assistance of United Concordia's Special Investigation's Unit (SIU). The prosecution was handled by the United States Attorney's Office, District of Colorado. On February 15, 2001, James Paul Kalhorn, D.D.S., plead guilty to making or causing to be made a false statement or representations involving a Federal health care program. A previous indictment was dismissed upon Kalhorn's plea. Between January 1996 and December 1999, Kalhorn submitted numerous claims to TRICARE's contracted dental carrier, United Concordia Companies, Inc., Great-West Life, and Delta Dental for periodontal scaling and root planing that according to medical reviews, were not necessary. The procedure is performed and billed in segments of the mouth, or quadrants. Kalhorn submitted claims for quadrants of root planing and scaling for dates of service when patients were not present. Kalhorn also submitted claims for periodontal pocket depth charts for scaling and root planing that contained measurements, patients said were not performed by Kalhorn. In June 1998, a Fairfield, California dentist plead guilty to a felony health care fraud and paid over a half-million dollars to settle federal civil charges. United Concordia during a routine review of utilization statistics, detected billing irregularities that ultimately led to federal prosecution. The case was one of the first in the nation to be prosecuted under the Kennedy-Kassenbaum federal health care statute. Who knows what we'll be reading about Naples, Florida, dentists, eh? So what's your point? That there's corruption in every corner of commerce? Dave |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dave Hall wrote: So what's your point? That there's corruption in every corner of commerce? Dave Indeed, there is, but never on a scale as large as when conservative Republicans are involved. Yeah, as prosecutors. It takes a person with high moral values to put away the cheating scumbag liberals. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dave Hall wrote: So what's your point? That there's corruption in every corner of commerce? Dave Indeed, there is, but never on a scale as large as when conservative Republicans are involved. Yeah, as prosecutors. It takes a person with high moral values to put away the cheating scumbag liberals. Prosecutors? High morals? Are you kidding? HAve you ever served on a grand jury? Prosecutors will say or do anything to get indictments, and when they falsely accuse and get a false conviction, it is virtually impossible to get them to cooperate in a reversal. Sheesh. Everybody knows that prosecutors are usually conservatives and defense attorneys are usually liberals. |
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:31:29 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: Dave Hall wrote: So what's your point? That there's corruption in every corner of commerce? Dave Indeed, there is, but never on a scale as large as when conservative Republicans are involved. Oh brother. You really are a biased partisan hack. Dave |
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 08:58:44 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dave Hall wrote: So what's your point? That there's corruption in every corner of commerce? Dave Indeed, there is, but never on a scale as large as when conservative Republicans are involved. Yeah, as prosecutors. It takes a person with high moral values to put away the cheating scumbag liberals. Prosecutors? High morals? Are you kidding? HAve you ever served on a grand jury? Prosecutors will say or do anything to get indictments, and when they falsely accuse and get a false conviction, it is virtually impossible to get them to cooperate in a reversal. Sheesh. Everybody knows that prosecutors are usually conservatives and defense attorneys are usually liberals. Well, that explains why prosecutors are lying scum, eh? Who says they are? Where's the proof? I guess you would rather there were more criminals roaming the streets? Dave |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dave Hall wrote: So what's your point? That there's corruption in every corner of commerce? Dave Indeed, there is, but never on a scale as large as when conservative Republicans are involved. Yeah, as prosecutors. It takes a person with high moral values to put away the cheating scumbag liberals. Prosecutors? High morals? Are you kidding? HAve you ever served on a grand jury? Prosecutors will say or do anything to get indictments, and when they falsely accuse and get a false conviction, it is virtually impossible to get them to cooperate in a reversal. Sheesh. Everybody knows that prosecutors are usually conservatives and defense attorneys are usually liberals. Well, that explains why prosecutors are lying scum, eh? Not when compared to defense attorneys. Take a poll of 100 people, and 80 of them will tell you that prosecutors have higher ethical standards than defense attorneys. The other 20 are either criminals or defense attorneys. |
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:57:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:
I'd prefer that prosecutors uphold the letter and the spirit of the law, and not twist and bend them when it suits their purpose. I think *most* prosecutors do uphold the letter of the law. Unfortunately, though, more than a few don't. I've thought that if some innocent bozo spends time in jail because of prosecutor malfeasance, if caught, the prosecutor should spend at least an equal time in the can. Railroading an innocent, for what is generally no more than political ambition, is in my mind a high crime. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... NOYB wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dave Hall wrote: So what's your point? That there's corruption in every corner of commerce? Dave Indeed, there is, but never on a scale as large as when conservative Republicans are involved. Yeah, as prosecutors. It takes a person with high moral values to put away the cheating scumbag liberals. Prosecutors? High morals? Are you kidding? HAve you ever served on a grand jury? Prosecutors will say or do anything to get indictments, and when they falsely accuse and get a false conviction, it is virtually impossible to get them to cooperate in a reversal. Sheesh. Everybody knows that prosecutors are usually conservatives and defense attorneys are usually liberals. Well, that explains why prosecutors are lying scum, eh? Not when compared to defense attorneys. Take a poll of 100 people, and 80 of them will tell you that prosecutors have higher ethical standards than defense attorneys. The other 20 are either criminals or defense attorneys. Results of your poll would not indicate anything more than results of your poll. Nice come back Harry! |
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:36:08 -0500, thunder
wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:57:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: I'd prefer that prosecutors uphold the letter and the spirit of the law, and not twist and bend them when it suits their purpose. I think *most* prosecutors do uphold the letter of the law. Unfortunately, though, more than a few don't. I've thought that if some innocent bozo spends time in jail because of prosecutor malfeasance, if caught, the prosecutor should spend at least an equal time in the can. Railroading an innocent, for what is generally no more than political ambition, is in my mind a high crime. I would generally agree, but I would also add that leveraging the law to allow an otherwise guilty person to walk free on a "technicality" is equally deplorable. Evidence, is evidence, no matter how it's obtained. If it's pertinent, then it should be allowed regardless of whether the cop found it in a place he wasn't supposed to be looking...... Dave |
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:52:16 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: thunder wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:57:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: I'd prefer that prosecutors uphold the letter and the spirit of the law, and not twist and bend them when it suits their purpose. I think *most* prosecutors do uphold the letter of the law. Unfortunately, though, more than a few don't. I've thought that if some innocent bozo spends time in jail because of prosecutor malfeasance, if caught, the prosecutor should spend at least an equal time in the can. Railroading an innocent, for what is generally no more than political ambition, is in my mind a high crime. Well, it happens all the time. No, it doesn't happen *all* the time. It happens far less that you'd probably believe. Dave |
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:29:50 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: Dave Hall wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:52:16 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: thunder wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:57:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: I'd prefer that prosecutors uphold the letter and the spirit of the law, and not twist and bend them when it suits their purpose. I think *most* prosecutors do uphold the letter of the law. Unfortunately, though, more than a few don't. I've thought that if some innocent bozo spends time in jail because of prosecutor malfeasance, if caught, the prosecutor should spend at least an equal time in the can. Railroading an innocent, for what is generally no more than political ambition, is in my mind a high crime. Well, it happens all the time. No, it doesn't happen *all* the time. It happens far less that you'd probably believe. Dave Prove it. Ah, the old "argumentum ad ignorantium". You are asking me to prove a negative? Sorry sonny boy, but the burden of proof is on you to provide those cases where prosecutors are corrupt "all the time". You made the claim, so YOU have to prove it. Dave |
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:29:30 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: Dave Hall wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:36:08 -0500, thunder wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:57:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: I'd prefer that prosecutors uphold the letter and the spirit of the law, and not twist and bend them when it suits their purpose. I think *most* prosecutors do uphold the letter of the law. Unfortunately, though, more than a few don't. I've thought that if some innocent bozo spends time in jail because of prosecutor malfeasance, if caught, the prosecutor should spend at least an equal time in the can. Railroading an innocent, for what is generally no more than political ambition, is in my mind a high crime. I would generally agree, but I would also add that leveraging the law to allow an otherwise guilty person to walk free on a "technicality" is equally deplorable. Evidence, is evidence, no matter how it's obtained. If it's pertinent, then it should be allowed regardless of whether the cop found it in a place he wasn't supposed to be looking...... Dave Well, there goes the rule of law. Really, Dave, you'd be much happier living in the old Sov Union, or Hitler's Germany, or George Bush's future vision of America. It's really quite simple. If people are easily proven guilty, then they should be incarcerated. They should not have credible evidence thrown out on technicalities, thereby placing a danger to society back on the street. If there is a question as to the validity of the evidence itself, that's one thing. But if the evidence IS valid, then how it was obtained should be irrelevant. Dave |
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:53:10 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote: Dave Hall wrote: On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:29:50 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: Dave Hall wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:52:16 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: thunder wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:57:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: I'd prefer that prosecutors uphold the letter and the spirit of the law, and not twist and bend them when it suits their purpose. I think *most* prosecutors do uphold the letter of the law. Unfortunately, though, more than a few don't. I've thought that if some innocent bozo spends time in jail because of prosecutor malfeasance, if caught, the prosecutor should spend at least an equal time in the can. Railroading an innocent, for what is generally no more than political ambition, is in my mind a high crime. Well, it happens all the time. No, it doesn't happen *all* the time. It happens far less that you'd probably believe. Dave Prove it. Ah, the old "argumentum ad ignorantium". You are asking me to prove a negative? Sorry sonny boy, but the burden of proof is on you to provide those cases where prosecutors are corrupt "all the time". You made the claim, so YOU have to prove it. Dave I can cite case after case after case of police, prosecutor, and FBI malfeasance. Assuming this is true, it is STILL a minority of the total number of cases. Far from "doing it all the time". Dave |
"Dave Hall" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 15:52:16 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: thunder wrote: On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:57:44 -0500, Harry Krause wrote: I'd prefer that prosecutors uphold the letter and the spirit of the law, and not twist and bend them when it suits their purpose. I think *most* prosecutors do uphold the letter of the law. Unfortunately, though, more than a few don't. I've thought that if some innocent bozo spends time in jail because of prosecutor malfeasance, if caught, the prosecutor should spend at least an equal time in the can. Railroading an innocent, for what is generally no more than political ambition, is in my mind a high crime. Well, it happens all the time. No, it doesn't happen *all* the time. It happens far less that you'd probably believe. It happens as much as harry takes rides in his 36' lobsta boat Dave |
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