On 08 Jan 2004 02:17:22 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Of course there has been no "left" wing smearing of President Bush in this
newsgroup. None, absolutely none, nada. Yeah right.



You are correct, of course.
However, the comparison is not as transparent as you imply.

Nothing ever is. But that never stops those with an agenda.


Bush's record of actions since taking office and the results are observable.
"Bush has done this, has done that, and the results have been, etc."

But the results of those efforts are somewhat subjective, depending on
your viewpoint and political polarity. Is the war on terror a good
thing or bad thing? How you feel about war, the military, and
international politics will influence your opinion in this area.



It's routine for the incumbent to campaign against a challenger with far more
outrageous claims and accusations, since none can be proven or disproven. "If
Dean gets into office, he'll pressure Congress to
legalize gay marriage in all 50 states! If Dean gets into office, we'll have
abortion on demand for twelve-year-olds without parental notice or consent! If
Dean gets into office he'll tax Grandma right out of her mobile home!......etc"

Much of the fuel for that fire was supplied by the candidates
themselves. Dean has publicly stated that he intends to roll back all
of our tax cuts. Grandma is part of that group.



Onward and upward. Should be an interesting election year that is for sure.

This election year will open wounds in America that will never heal.

What's so much different this time? Is it just that the ideals of
liberals and conservatives have become so polarized? Is it that
liberals have finally amassed a loud enough voice to make enough waves
to be felt?

There is
too much money to be made stirring up hatred and distrust between people who
*should* be able to disagree in a civil manner.


You still seem to have a problem differentiating a difference in
political ideology with "hate". I have seen nothing that could be
construed as "hate". Just because conservatives do not hold the same
value sets as liberals does not mean that they "hate" anyone. That you
would categorize as such speaks volumes about your bias.


Buy options on anger, slander,
character assassination and bald faced lies. Stock in all will be skyrocketing
soon.

It works both ways. The people on your side of the fence are hardly
angels in this respect.


Dave

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:24:02 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:

What's so much different this time? Is it just that the ideals of liberals
and conservatives have become so polarized? Is it that liberals have
finally amassed a loud enough voice to make enough waves to be felt?

Liberals and conservatives have always been polarized, it's the center
that hasn't been. In my mind, what makes this election different,
especially if Dean is the Democratic candidate, the center will have to
make a decision, go left or go right. Neither of these candidates are
moderates. Bush is very conservative, and Dean is very liberal.


You still seem to have a problem differentiating a difference in
political ideology with "hate". I have seen nothing that could be
construed as "hate". Just because conservatives do not hold the same value
sets as liberals does not mean that they "hate" anyone. That you would
categorize as such speaks volumes about your bias.

I know too many conservatives to think that hate is a conservative value,
but I will say this, most of the hateful, racist people I know, call
themselves "conservative".

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 08:10:42 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:24:02 -0500, Dave Hall wrote:

What's so much different this time? Is it just that the ideals of liberals
and conservatives have become so polarized? Is it that liberals have
finally amassed a loud enough voice to make enough waves to be felt?

Liberals and conservatives have always been polarized, it's the center
that hasn't been. In my mind, what makes this election different,
especially if Dean is the Democratic candidate, the center will have to
make a decision, go left or go right. Neither of these candidates are
moderates. Bush is very conservative, and Dean is very liberal.

I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals
downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by.




You still seem to have a problem differentiating a difference in
political ideology with "hate". I have seen nothing that could be
construed as "hate". Just because conservatives do not hold the same value
sets as liberals does not mean that they "hate" anyone. That you would
categorize as such speaks volumes about your bias.

I know too many conservatives to think that hate is a conservative value,
but I will say this, most of the hateful, racist people I know, call
themselves "conservative".

I would call them "intolerant".

Think about this though. If there were an element in society that you
could statistically track, and could link this same element to a
definite decline in living standard, or quality of life, and you spoke
out against it, based on your evidence, would that make you "Hateful"?
Since when do we have to tolerate every element or trend in society?

Dave

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...

I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals
downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by.


Nah....that's not true. Liberals don't try to legislate morals, or preach
about them. We get in your face about some stuff, but not about other stuff.
The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is which areas they
acknowledge as "None of anybody's business".

It's 100% based on the opinions of human beings, not natural law or deities.
Therefore, it's fair play to meddle until the next person is elected. If I
were elected, there'd be a law saying that if your car leaks oil all over
parking lots and you don't fix it within 30 days of getting a ticket,
someone comes to your house and breaks your kneecaps, and all five fingers
on one hand. But that's just me.

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:14:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals
downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by.


Nah....that's not true. Liberals don't try to legislate morals, or preach
about them. We get in your face about some stuff, but not about other stuff.
The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is which areas they
acknowledge as "None of anybody's business".

It's 100% based on the opinions of human beings, not natural law or deities.
Therefore, it's fair play to meddle until the next person is elected. If I
were elected, there'd be a law saying that if your car leaks oil all over
parking lots and you don't fix it within 30 days of getting a ticket,
someone comes to your house and breaks your kneecaps, and all five fingers
on one hand. But that's just me.


That law's been on the books in Germany for a long time!

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:14:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals
downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by.


Nah....that's not true. Liberals don't try to legislate morals, or preach
about them. We get in your face about some stuff, but not about other
stuff.
The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is which areas they
acknowledge as "None of anybody's business".

It's 100% based on the opinions of human beings, not natural law or
deities.
Therefore, it's fair play to meddle until the next person is elected. If
I
were elected, there'd be a law saying that if your car leaks oil all over
parking lots and you don't fix it within 30 days of getting a ticket,
someone comes to your house and breaks your kneecaps, and all five
fingers
on one hand. But that's just me.


That law's been on the books in Germany for a long time!

John H

I like it! Seriously....it washes into the storm drains and ends up in MY
fishing water. My mechanic says 99% of the leakers he sees need a $1.50
washer around the oil pan drain plug.

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:33:43 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:



That law's been on the books in Germany for a long time!

John H

I like it! Seriously....it washes into the storm drains and ends up in MY
fishing water. My mechanic says 99% of the leakers he sees need a $1.50
washer around the oil pan drain plug.

But you fail to consider the poor people, who routinely drive 20 year
old cars, who can't afford to replace the front main seal in the
engine, or the valve cover gaskets.

See, this is what I mean about the duplicity of the left. You guys
become single focussed when you adopt a cause. But you fail to
consider the interactivity that results when your "vision" is applied
in practice.

What is more important to you? Helping the poor stay afloat, or being
cents wise and dollar foolish when it comes to little environmental
issues?

Dave

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:14:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals
downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by.


Nah....that's not true. Liberals don't try to legislate morals, or preach
about them. We get in your face about some stuff, but not about other stuff.
The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is which areas they
acknowledge as "None of anybody's business".

It's 100% based on the opinions of human beings, not natural law or deities.
Therefore, it's fair play to meddle until the next person is elected. If I
were elected, there'd be a law saying that if your car leaks oil all over
parking lots and you don't fix it within 30 days of getting a ticket,
someone comes to your house and breaks your kneecaps, and all five fingers
on one hand. But that's just me.


My law would be that you'd be legally allowed to shoot the fool that
came to your house to break your kneecaps.

Dave

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:14:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals
downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by.


Nah....that's not true. Liberals don't try to legislate morals, or preach
about them. We get in your face about some stuff, but not about other
stuff.
The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is which areas they
acknowledge as "None of anybody's business".

It's 100% based on the opinions of human beings, not natural law or
deities.
Therefore, it's fair play to meddle until the next person is elected. If
I
were elected, there'd be a law saying that if your car leaks oil all over
parking lots and you don't fix it within 30 days of getting a ticket,
someone comes to your house and breaks your kneecaps, and all five
fingers
on one hand. But that's just me.


My law would be that you'd be legally allowed to shoot the fool that
came to your house to break your kneecaps.

Dave

I guess you've never lived near rivers that were capable or catching fire,
or bodies of water with glistening rainbows from a constant oil slick. Is
that what you want for your kids?

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 15:10:38 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:14:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals
downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by.


Nah....that's not true. Liberals don't try to legislate morals, or preach
about them. We get in your face about some stuff, but not about other
stuff.
The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is which areas they
acknowledge as "None of anybody's business".

It's 100% based on the opinions of human beings, not natural law or
deities.
Therefore, it's fair play to meddle until the next person is elected. If
I
were elected, there'd be a law saying that if your car leaks oil all over
parking lots and you don't fix it within 30 days of getting a ticket,
someone comes to your house and breaks your kneecaps, and all five
fingers
on one hand. But that's just me.


My law would be that you'd be legally allowed to shoot the fool that
came to your house to break your kneecaps.

Dave

I guess you've never lived near rivers that were capable or catching fire,
or bodies of water with glistening rainbows from a constant oil slick. Is
that what you want for your kids?

Nope, but I'm not cents wise and dollar foolish when it comes to the
environment. I'm not an alarmist who wants to redefine every power
enthusiast's lifestyle by claiming that these things are more
responsible for pollution than agricultural or industrial sources.

I'm not in favor of rules which unnecessarily burden those who can
least afford it. And I don't think the government (And by extension
the taxpayers) should be forced to "fix" that problem by subsidizing
the poor.

Dave