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OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"NOYB" wrote in message
link.net... "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Try NPR... I listen to NPR regularly. Tell me, when do I tune in to hear the hosts denigrate all conservatives as "traitors"? When should I listen to hear dozens of "Yep, me toos" from the listening audience? Can't believe I'm missing all this hateful stuff boradcast on NPR. NPR's left-wing bias is more analogous to governmental right-wing propaganda. If you want an example of "hate talk" from the left, look at people like Al Franken, Michael Moore, and James Carville. NPR has actually been broadcasting quite a bit of positive stuff about "micro" stuff in Iraq. In other words, small examples of success. But, you don't hear that because you don't listent to NPR, tooth boy. You sound as silly as I would if I bad-mouthed Garmin GPS equipment, something I've never owned, used or even touched at the store. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
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OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... Free market capitalism is natural. Socialism is not. Liberalism is ultimately bound to fail. There will always be classes in society, no matter now hard the left tries to artificially remove them. 1) You have a short memory. We've discussed this. You are not permitted to use the word "socialism" unless you understand it. You do not understand it. If you disagree with me, please explain socialism and how it applies to this discussion. 2) There's nothing wrong with classes within society, as long as people are free to choose their place. If I'm happy laying bricks, and my lack of stress leads my doctor to say I'm the healthiest man he's ever seen, that's my choice. If, on the other hand, I can accept chaos and stress and choose to be an emergency room doctor, that also my choice. You are not aware of anyone suggesting that the salary of the ER doctor should be lowered to the level of what the bricklayer is paid. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... Whore, en Español. Thanks Doug. Is Spanish the second language in USA? We, in Canada, have two official languages, English and French. Jim Carter "The Boat" Bayfield |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
Dave Hall wrote:
... The conservative message is easier to understand, and breaks down easily into bite sized bits that even the non-scholarly among us can understand Sure. You can sway thousands by appealing to their prejudices much much quicker than you can convince one man by logic. However, I would dispute that the message (in this case) is "conservative." DSK |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Jim Carter" wrote in message
e.rogers.com... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... Whore, en Español. Thanks Doug. Is Spanish the second language in USA? We, in Canada, have two official languages, English and French. No, it just sort of flowed at the moment. Last time I described KSmith, it upset a lot of people with the term I chose. Oh well. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... Do you want to pay more in taxes or less? For most people the answer is easy. As long as you don't ask them if they understand the long term consequences of such a tax decision, you're all set. At least in terms of getting yourself elected, and the aforementioned consequences don't come down the chute until your term of office ends and you're back on your ranch. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
Gould 0738 wrote: Gould 0738 wrote: Hate radio is a tool of the right. Pure horse****. I've heard the left doing the same. Really? Yes. Why is that a surprise to you? shakin' head Do you have some call letters of a radio station that broadcasts the left wing equivalent of Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, and the rest? I'd like to know where you hear the left "do the same" as the right. WBAI But you need not try to find this radio station: krause does *exactly* what "Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, and the rest" do. You're just too prejudiced to recognize it. Kudos, though: Like NOYB you are willing to admit that the right at least does it "too" That's because I don't fit your prejudice. Nor am I a "conservative". -- Charlie ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:14:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by. Nah....that's not true. Liberals don't try to legislate morals, or preach about them. We get in your face about some stuff, but not about other stuff. The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is which areas they acknowledge as "None of anybody's business". It's 100% based on the opinions of human beings, not natural law or deities. Therefore, it's fair play to meddle until the next person is elected. If I were elected, there'd be a law saying that if your car leaks oil all over parking lots and you don't fix it within 30 days of getting a ticket, someone comes to your house and breaks your kneecaps, and all five fingers on one hand. But that's just me. That law's been on the books in Germany for a long time! John H On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay! |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"John H" wrote in message
... On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:14:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by. Nah....that's not true. Liberals don't try to legislate morals, or preach about them. We get in your face about some stuff, but not about other stuff. The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is which areas they acknowledge as "None of anybody's business". It's 100% based on the opinions of human beings, not natural law or deities. Therefore, it's fair play to meddle until the next person is elected. If I were elected, there'd be a law saying that if your car leaks oil all over parking lots and you don't fix it within 30 days of getting a ticket, someone comes to your house and breaks your kneecaps, and all five fingers on one hand. But that's just me. That law's been on the books in Germany for a long time! John H I like it! Seriously....it washes into the storm drains and ends up in MY fishing water. My mechanic says 99% of the leakers he sees need a $1.50 washer around the oil pan drain plug. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
NPR's left-wing bias is more analogous to governmental right-wing
propaganda. If you want an example of "hate talk" from the left, look at people like Al Franken, Michael Moore, and James Carville. When are their NPR shows scheduled? |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
Jim Carter wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... Whore, en Español. Thanks Doug. Is Spanish the second language in USA? We, in Canada, have two official languages, English and French. Jim Carter "The Boat" Bayfield You called K Smith of Australia a whore? I thought we were practicing truth in packaging. Who the hell would pay to have sex with that decrepit bag of feces? Oh...Spanish. Well, it is the defacto second language in the states. We're xenophobic here...we don't believe in mandatory second-language study for school children. Hell, half our U.S. born citizens can't speak, read or write standard American English...look at George W. Bush...what an example he is for students who like to read, write and speak. D'oh. -- Email sent to is never read. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Dave Hall" wrote in message ... Free market capitalism is natural. Socialism is not. Liberalism is ultimately bound to fail. There will always be classes in society, no matter now hard the left tries to artificially remove them. 1) You have a short memory. We've discussed this. You are not permitted to use the word "socialism" unless you understand it. You do not understand it. If you disagree with me, please explain socialism and how it applies to this discussion. 2) There's nothing wrong with classes within society, as long as people are free to choose their place. If I'm happy laying bricks, and my lack of stress leads my doctor to say I'm the healthiest man he's ever seen, that's my choice. If, on the other hand, I can accept chaos and stress and choose to be an emergency room doctor, that also my choice. You are not aware of anyone suggesting that the salary of the ER doctor should be lowered to the level of what the bricklayer is paid. Hall couldn't get a job as a bricklayer or an ER room doctor. -- Email sent to is never read. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
When your political icons are making statements accusing "all liberals, all
Democrats, all this, all that........" of being anti-American, (and worse), that has nothing to do with issues. It's a tool to polarize society. Not when those statements are followed up with examples to back them up. You make my case. What example could possibly be given of any behavior engaged in by *all* of any group? Listen to your spokespeople. They don't defend issues or policies at all.....they simply bad mouth anybody that might oppose a right wing agenda. You mean in the same way that you demonize conservative radio by calling it "hate"? Back to my desktop dictionary. Hate: To feel very strong dislike for. Which conservative radio programs do you listen to that do not express "very strong dislike" for liberals? And that's what really bothers you guys on the left. The conservative message is easier to understand, and breaks down easily into bite sized bits that even the non-scholarly among us can understand It's the same group of techniques that over the years have rallied the gullible against "******s" "kikes" "spics" and what not. The new buzzword is "lib". The rhetoric remains unchanged. The "non-scholarly" are just as misled, just as angry, and just as manipulated. In order to adopt, much less understand the liberal mindset you have to be willing to accept some idealistic utopian principles which are foreign to the natural order of most people. Again, you make my case. Thanks for the assistance. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... That the left refers to the presentation of an opposing opinion as "Hate" is what I find most offensive. Opposing opinion is fine. When that "opinion" becomes, "In my opinion, anybody who disagrees with Bush is a tratior. In my opinion, the liberals in this country are all out to coddle terrorists." etc that becomes hate speech. An opinion is "I believe the current policy in Iraq is a good one because........" The statement, "All liberals should be given a one-way ticket out of the United States to improve our national security" may be an opinion- but it's also hate speech. What's the matter Chuckie somebody hurt your feelings with big bad words? Grow up! Bert |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
What's the matter Chuckie somebody hurt your feelings with big bad words?
Grow up! Bert Very good, Bert. You make my point. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... What's the matter Chuckie somebody hurt your feelings with big bad words? Grow up! Bert Very good, Bert. You make my point. If your *point* is about being mean tempered, unwilling to accept views opposing yours and being egotistical, then I guess Bert did prove it. You fit it to a T as evidenced by your posts scattered throughout this NG. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
If your *point* is about being mean tempered, unwilling to accept views
opposing yours and being egotistical, then I guess Bert did prove it. You fit it to a T as evidenced by your posts scattered throughout this NG. My point is that those unable to discuss issues resort to hurling strings of insults. An insult is an emotional reaction, not an intellectual response. Thank you for your additional validation of my point. Right wing insults always welcome. Particularly funny when offered to support an argument that many right wingers don't specialize in slander. :-) |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... If your *point* is about being mean tempered, unwilling to accept views opposing yours and being egotistical, then I guess Bert did prove it. You fit it to a T as evidenced by your posts scattered throughout this NG. My point is that those unable to discuss issues resort to hurling strings of insults. An insult is an emotional reaction, not an intellectual response. Thank you for your additional validation of my point. Right wing insults always welcome. Particularly funny when offered to support an argument that many right wingers don't specialize in slander. :-) Why are you so hung up on right wing/left wing? Can't you accept a person and their viewpoint without having to label or insult them? You started out as a nice guy in this forum. 'Tis no longer the case Chuck. Too bad you can't see that. Take some time away from this place. As evidenced by a recent thread it looks like you spend every waking moment here. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
Gould 0738 wrote: My point is that those unable to discuss issues resort to hurling strings of insults. An insult is an emotional reaction, not an intellectual response. You mean like krause, kanter, jps, basskisser, gould, etc? Too bad you're not fair or balanced so as to apply the same standard to those of your own ilk. -- Charlie ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:46:20 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . If Dean gets into office he'll tax Grandma right out of her mobile home!......etc" Much of the fuel for that fire was supplied by the candidates themselves. Dean has publicly stated that he intends to roll back all of our tax cuts. Grandma is part of that group. Strawman: Your daughter's all grown up and has her own place to live. You stop by to annoy her just as she's taking the mail out of the mailbox. You notice she's got 19 credit card bills in the mail. Being the concerned daddy, you say "Hey...that's not gonna look so good on your credit report, having that many credit accounts...even if they're all current". She says "Hey - I was $8,000.00 in debt last year and now I've got it up to $17,300.00. I applied for more cards yesterday, and I'm thinking of finding a job that pays me less". Analogies: "applied for more cards" : Sold more Treasury bonds "job that pays me less: : Lowered taxes (income) What do you say to her? Get a better job. Dave |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
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OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:58:52 -0500, DSK wrote:
Do you have some call letters of a radio station that broadcasts the left wing equivalent of Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, and the rest? I'd like to know where you hear the left "do the same" as the right. Dave Hall wrote: Try NPR... That's great Dave.... remember, it's only "fair and balanced" if it promotes the illogical bigotry & fascism that are nearest & dearest to your heart. As opposed to the illogical bigotry and fascism that are nearest and dearest to yours? Kudos, though: Like NOYB you are willing to admit that the right at least does it "too" I disagree with your characterization of conservative talk radio as "Hate". Wait a minute, in your last post didn't you say "if it quacks like a duck, call it a duck"? I don't think Gould0738 was trying to characterize all conservative talk radio as "hate radio" just the ones that are hate-filled. Like the ones that denounce liberals as traitors (among other hateful accusations).... Proceeding to undermine the fight against terrorism, especially when you have little to no credible information to base your opposition on, is analogous to being a traitor. How can you be a good citizen if you oppose the policies of your own country? It's like being a good parent. If mom and dad disagree about a particular method of punishment, they need to resolve it in private. Not air it out in front of the kids, where the kids can then sense a chink in the parental armor. That same is true with our foreign policy. Sure you have a right and a responsibility to oppose that which you disagree with. But you don't compare your leaders to Hitler, or pull a "Dixie Chicks" in a public forum in a foreign country. Especially when your whole reason for opposing is contained in sound byte propaganda. Stating a negative opinion is also not automatically hateful. You frequently disagree with me and have used ad-hominem names out of sheer frustration. By your and Chuck's "logic", can I then assume that you guys "hate" me? Should I be calling the DA's office? Just because you can't counter the points made in a logical fashion, and it bothers you, doesn't make the content "Hateful". Actually, I and others have countered many (at least, all the ones I've cared to read) of your points in sensible, factual, logical fashion... but you have refused to learn anything at all in the years you've been ranting on this NG. You arrogantly assume that your points made any sense to anyone besides yourself. Just because someone provides you with "information" does not mean that the information is either factual, or rational. I have yet to hear a liberal point that makes any sense. It's just the wrong ideology, and I can give many reasons why. It's no different than our latest bunch of democratic presidential wannabees. None of them have made any hint as to what they would do to fix things,other than to counter what "the enemy" has done. Where is their vision for success? God bless you for never changing, Dave! You're like a rock! It's called sticking to sound moral principles. A concept that those on the left seem to have forgotten. Dave |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
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OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 02:53:17 GMT, WaIIy wrote: On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 20:04:40 -0500, "Jim--" wrote: "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... What's the matter Chuckie somebody hurt your feelings with big bad words? Grow up! Bert Very good, Bert. You make my point. If your *point* is about being mean tempered, unwilling to accept views opposing yours and being egotistical, then I guess Bert did prove it. You fit it to a T as evidenced by your posts scattered throughout this NG. Better shut up, Jim. You might be spewing "hate speech". Hate Speech : Any notion Gould, jps and Krouse don't agree with. That pretty much sums it up. Dave |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:14:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by. Nah....that's not true. Liberals don't try to legislate morals, or preach about them. We get in your face about some stuff, but not about other stuff. The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is which areas they acknowledge as "None of anybody's business". It's 100% based on the opinions of human beings, not natural law or deities. Therefore, it's fair play to meddle until the next person is elected. If I were elected, there'd be a law saying that if your car leaks oil all over parking lots and you don't fix it within 30 days of getting a ticket, someone comes to your house and breaks your kneecaps, and all five fingers on one hand. But that's just me. My law would be that you'd be legally allowed to shoot the fool that came to your house to break your kneecaps. Dave |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:33:43 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: That law's been on the books in Germany for a long time! John H I like it! Seriously....it washes into the storm drains and ends up in MY fishing water. My mechanic says 99% of the leakers he sees need a $1.50 washer around the oil pan drain plug. But you fail to consider the poor people, who routinely drive 20 year old cars, who can't afford to replace the front main seal in the engine, or the valve cover gaskets. See, this is what I mean about the duplicity of the left. You guys become single focussed when you adopt a cause. But you fail to consider the interactivity that results when your "vision" is applied in practice. What is more important to you? Helping the poor stay afloat, or being cents wise and dollar foolish when it comes to little environmental issues? Dave |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
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OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:43:15 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . Free market capitalism is natural. Socialism is not. Liberalism is ultimately bound to fail. There will always be classes in society, no matter now hard the left tries to artificially remove them. 1) You have a short memory. We've discussed this. You are not permitted to use the word "socialism" unless you understand it. You do not understand it. If you disagree with me, please explain socialism and how it applies to this discussion. I could give you the dictionary definition or the practical one. Which one do you want? In either case, a system which artificially relocates wealth from those who work for it to those who don't, is blatantly unfair to those who work hard. It also promotes a sense of mediocrity, as it remove incentives to better oneself. If one can make a living wage as a street sweeper, why take on the additional responsibility and stress of being a rocket scientist or CEO, if the rewards are not that much greater? 2) There's nothing wrong with classes within society, as long as people are free to choose their place. That is precisely what we have. The problem is that many people's class is the product of either poor choices or lack of ambition. Many on the left feel that these people are victims, rather than participants in their own situation, and that the rest of us should be bound to "do something" about it. If I'm happy laying bricks, and my lack of stress leads my doctor to say I'm the healthiest man he's ever seen, that's my choice. If, on the other hand, I can accept chaos and stress and choose to be an emergency room doctor, that also my choice. Then don't complain if you can't afford to live the same standard of life that your CEO neighbor lives. You are not aware of anyone suggesting that the salary of the ER doctor should be lowered to the level of what the bricklayer is paid. Not, actually just the opposite. Many of you on the left feel that the bricklayer should be paid close to what the ER doctor is paid. Support of unions is a prime example of promoting a disproportionate wage for the intrinsic value of an un- or under skilled labor job. We have had this discussion before. Only Mark Browne had the insight to even address the other side. You fell apart after the $10 Big Mac that would result if we paid fast food workers a "Living wage". Dave |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:02:53 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . Do you want to pay more in taxes or less? For most people the answer is easy. As long as you don't ask them if they understand the long term consequences of such a tax decision, you're all set. At least in terms of getting yourself elected, and the aforementioned consequences don't come down the chute until your term of office ends and you're back on your ranch. And just what are those consequences? We can support our lowered tax structure as long as we roll back much of the left's entitlement programs, and policies such as awarding huge grants of money to study such trivial items as the sex life of a tse-tse fly. We can also insist that all of those countries that we provided unselfish aid at times of crisis (That they have promptly forgot) repay much of the debt that we routinely forgive. The more money you give back to the people, the better their standard of living becomes. Dave |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
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OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
Have you read any of the posts by Harry, jps, basskisser etc? You keep
highlighting mild insults from the people on the right, but high five the left while the hurl profanity and hate speech to those they disagree with. While I have not listen to many of the right radio shows, I don't believe I have heard any of them use the intensity of hate shown by the 3 mentioned above. "Gould 0738" wrote in message ... If your *point* is about being mean tempered, unwilling to accept views opposing yours and being egotistical, then I guess Bert did prove it. You fit it to a T as evidenced by your posts scattered throughout this NG. My point is that those unable to discuss issues resort to hurling strings of insults. An insult is an emotional reaction, not an intellectual response. Thank you for your additional validation of my point. Right wing insults always welcome. Particularly funny when offered to support an argument that many right wingers don't specialize in slander. :-) |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 21:33:43 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: That law's been on the books in Germany for a long time! John H I like it! Seriously....it washes into the storm drains and ends up in MY fishing water. My mechanic says 99% of the leakers he sees need a $1.50 washer around the oil pan drain plug. But you fail to consider the poor people, who routinely drive 20 year old cars, who can't afford to replace the front main seal in the engine, or the valve cover gaskets. See, this is what I mean about the duplicity of the left. You guys become single focussed when you adopt a cause. But you fail to consider the interactivity that results when your "vision" is applied in practice. What is more important to you? Helping the poor stay afloat, or being cents wise and dollar foolish when it comes to little environmental issues? Dave, what is it with you today? Are you on cold medication or something? I said my mechanic finds that 99% of leakers need a washer that costs as much as one and a half lottery tickets. Even low-income people often change their oil. The fault lies with the mechanics who don't give a damn about the quality of their work. Joe the mechanic puts a new washer on every car, at every oil change. I fully understand that some cars have much more serious problems, and that people sometimes can't afford the repairs. I was in that situation at one point in my life. But if you read what I wrote, it's clear that a nasty automotive problem could be virtually eliminated for next to nothing. Want another example? Like many astute guys, I can tell when someone's tires are low on air. So, at my office or apartment, if I have a pen & paper handy, I'll stick a note on someone's windshield saying something like "Hey! Your tires are REALLY low on air. Get to the pump before you get hurt". Why? It snows here. For tires that need 32 psi, being 5 pounds low can make them behave as if they were bald. I don't want to see people get hurt. Sometimes, someone sticks the note on the front door of the apt entrance, or the tenant directory of the office building saying "Thanks to whomever - they were down to 18 pounds!" What does this achieve? /For either free, or 50 cents (the cost of some air pumps), maybe someone didn't get into an accident. ThiMk, Dayve. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:14:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . I don't think that mainstream America is ready for a liberal. Liberals downplay those values and morals that most of the heartland live by. Nah....that's not true. Liberals don't try to legislate morals, or preach about them. We get in your face about some stuff, but not about other stuff. The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is which areas they acknowledge as "None of anybody's business". It's 100% based on the opinions of human beings, not natural law or deities. Therefore, it's fair play to meddle until the next person is elected. If I were elected, there'd be a law saying that if your car leaks oil all over parking lots and you don't fix it within 30 days of getting a ticket, someone comes to your house and breaks your kneecaps, and all five fingers on one hand. But that's just me. My law would be that you'd be legally allowed to shoot the fool that came to your house to break your kneecaps. Dave I guess you've never lived near rivers that were capable or catching fire, or bodies of water with glistening rainbows from a constant oil slick. Is that what you want for your kids? |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... 1) You have a short memory. We've discussed this. You are not permitted to use the word "socialism" unless you understand it. You do not understand it. If you disagree with me, please explain socialism and how it applies to this discussion. I could give you the dictionary definition or the practical one. Which one do you want? In either case, a system which artificially relocates wealth from those who work for it to those who don't, is blatantly unfair to those who work hard. It also promotes a sense of mediocrity, as it remove incentives to better oneself. If one can make a living wage as a street sweeper, why take on the additional responsibility and stress of being a rocket scientist or CEO, if the rewards are not that much greater? You are not aware of anyone suggesting that the street sweeper should be paid like a neurosurgeon. If you THINK you're aware of someone saying such things, you have erroneously focused your attention on an idiot. 2) There's nothing wrong with classes within society, as long as people are free to choose their place. That is precisely what we have. The problem is that many people's class is the product of either poor choices or lack of ambition. Many on the left feel that these people are victims, rather than participants in their own situation, and that the rest of us should be bound to "do something" about it. Right. That's like "some". But not all. The welfare system is gradually being overhauled to give certain people a kick in the pants. You know that. You read the grownup news, right? You've heard reports about some of the successes and failures of the new program. If I'm happy laying bricks, and my lack of stress leads my doctor to say I'm the healthiest man he's ever seen, that's my choice. If, on the other hand, I can accept chaos and stress and choose to be an emergency room doctor, that also my choice. Then don't complain if you can't afford to live the same standard of life that your CEO neighbor lives. You are not aware of any bricklayers who think they should live in $3 million homes like a neurosurgeons. If you THINK you're aware of someone saying such things, you have erroneously focused your attention on an idiot or a whiner. You are not aware of anyone suggesting that the salary of the ER doctor should be lowered to the level of what the bricklayer is paid. Not, actually just the opposite. Many of you on the left feel that the bricklayer should be paid close to what the ER doctor is paid. Support of unions is a prime example of promoting a disproportionate wage for the intrinsic value of an un- or under skilled labor job. Maybe we'd better establish some definitions. By "ER doctor", I'm not talking about someone who's only been out of med school for a couple of years. Their life is hell for awhile. I'm talking about a seasoned doctor whose salary is at least in the $100-$300K range. Having established this idea, I can say with 100% accuracy that you're not aware of anyone claiming a union carpenter's salary should suddenly be boosted to anywhere near that range. If a tradesman wants that kind of money, he usually goes independent and becomes a builder, rather than hiring out for other peoples' projects. We have had this discussion before. Only Mark Browne had the insight to even address the other side. You fell apart after the $10 Big Mac that would result if we paid fast food workers a "Living wage". Some businesses are in a category by themselves. Food is one of them. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:02:53 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . Do you want to pay more in taxes or less? For most people the answer is easy. As long as you don't ask them if they understand the long term consequences of such a tax decision, you're all set. At least in terms of getting yourself elected, and the aforementioned consequences don't come down the chute until your term of office ends and you're back on your ranch. And just what are those consequences? An economist can explain that to you. My only concern is our ability to sell more bonds when interest rates are a complete snooze, as they are now. We can support our lowered tax structure as long as we roll back much of the left's entitlement programs Zzzzzzzzzzzzz........... , and policies such as awarding huge grants of money to study such trivial items as the sex life of a tse-tse fly. For people who place zero value on knowledge, this is a great idea. Heard a great news story today, on NPR, the shameless left wing news source. Some left wing scientist has discovered something about the inner workings of mitochondria and how it's connected with genetic aspects of diseases like diabetes. What a friggin' waste of grant money. Who needs knowledge when you have Cheetos, the Simpsons, and that third thing - the opiate of the masses? You understand that last reference, I'm sure, because you have knowledge. We can also insist that all of those countries that we provided unselfish aid at times of crisis (That they have promptly forgot) repay much of the debt that we routinely forgive. The more money you give back to the people, the better their standard of living becomes. Yeah. We'll give you back your share of all research grant money. When someone in your family gets diabetes, you can conduct your own research. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:46:20 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Dave Hall" wrote in message .. . If Dean gets into office he'll tax Grandma right out of her mobile home!......etc" Much of the fuel for that fire was supplied by the candidates themselves. Dean has publicly stated that he intends to roll back all of our tax cuts. Grandma is part of that group. Strawman: Your daughter's all grown up and has her own place to live. You stop by to annoy her just as she's taking the mail out of the mailbox. You notice she's got 19 credit card bills in the mail. Being the concerned daddy, you say "Hey...that's not gonna look so good on your credit report, having that many credit accounts...even if they're all current". She says "Hey - I was $8,000.00 in debt last year and now I've got it up to $17,300.00. I applied for more cards yesterday, and I'm thinking of finding a job that pays me less". Analogies: "applied for more cards" : Sold more Treasury bonds "job that pays me less: : Lowered taxes (income) What do you say to her? Get a better job. Dave I've given you a perfect analogy for what your president is doing: Raising debt, and lowering income. I've told you your daughter has a plan that's identical, and that she believes it's sound. Respond to that, assuming she intends to go ahead with her plan regardless of what you say. Also, factor in something you don't know yet: You *will* care about her and gently nag her until the day you die. It's human nature. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Gould 0738" wrote in message
... NPR's left-wing bias is more analogous to governmental right-wing propaganda. If you want an example of "hate talk" from the left, look at people like Al Franken, Michael Moore, and James Carville. When are their NPR shows scheduled? Good question. I listen to NPR for about 10 hours a week, and have been for about 15 years. If those 3 people have been on with any regularity, I must've missed it. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
"Dave Hall" wrote in message
... Proceeding to undermine the fight against terrorism, especially when you have little to no credible information to base your opposition on, is analogous to being a traitor. How can you be a good citizen if you oppose the policies of your own country? Removing dog poop from your shoes may not remove the smell. Fill a shallow box with baking soda and place the shoes in it for a couple of days. While waiting for the smell to dissipate, read what left-wing puppet Powell has to say: Powell Admits No Hard Proof in Linking Iraq to Al Qaeda By CHRISTOPHER MARQUIS WASHINGTON, Jan. 8 - Secretary of State Colin L. Powell conceded Thursday that despite his assertions to the United Nations last year, he had no "smoking gun" proof of a link between the government of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and terrorists of Al Qaeda. "I have not seen smoking-gun, concrete evidence about the connection," Mr. Powell said, in response to a question at a news conference. "But I think the possibility of such connections did exist, and it was prudent to consider them at the time that we did." Mr. Powell's remarks on Thursday were a stark admission that there is no definitive evidence to back up administration statements and insinuations that Saddam Hussein had ties to Al Qaeda, the acknowledged authors of the Sept. 11 attacks. Although President Bush finally acknowledged in September that there was no known connection between Mr. Hussein and the attacks, the impression of a link in the public mind has become widely accepted - and something administration officials have done little to discourage. Mr. Powell offered a vigorous defense of his Feb. 5 presentation before the Security Council, in which he voiced the administration's most detailed case to date for war with Iraq. After studying intelligence data, he said that a "sinister nexus" existed "between Iraq and the Al Qaeda terrorist network, a nexus that combines classic terrorist organizations and modern methods of murder." Without any additional qualifiers, Mr. Powell continued, "Iraq today harbors a deadly terrorist network, headed by Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi, an associate and collaborator of Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda lieutenants." He added, "Iraqi officials deny accusations of ties with Al Qaeda. These denials are simply not credible." On Thursday, Mr. Powell dismissed second-guessing and said that Mr. Bush had acted after giving Mr. Hussein 12 years to come into compliance with the international community. "The president decided he had to act because he believed that whatever the size of the stockpile, whatever one might think about it, he believed that the region was in danger, America was in danger and he would act," he said. "And he did act." In a rare, wide-ranging meeting with reporters, Mr. Powell voiced some optimism on several other issues that have bedeviled the administration, including North Korea and Sudan, while expressing dismay about the Middle East and Haiti. But mostly, the secretary, appearing vigorous and in good spirits three weeks after undergoing surgery for prostate cancer, defended his justification for the war in Iraq. He said he had been fully aware that "the whole world would be watching," as he painstakingly made the case that the government of Saddam Hussein presented an imminent threat to the United States and its interests. The immediacy of the danger was at the core of debates in the United Nations over how to proceed against Mr. Hussein. A report released Thursday by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a nonpartisan Washington research center, concluded that Iraq's weapons programs constituted a long-term threat that should not have been ignored. But it also said the programs did not "pose an immediate threat to the United States, to the region or to global security." Mr. Powell's United Nations presentation - complete with audiotapes and satellite photographs - asserted that "leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction for a few more months or years is not an option." The secretary said he had spent time with experts at the Central Intelligence Agency studying reports. "Anything that we did not feel was solid and multisourced, we did not use in that speech," he said Thursday. He said that Mr. Hussein had used prohibited weapons in the past - including nerve gas attacks against Iran and Iraqi Kurds - and said that even if there were no actual weapons at hand, there was every indication he would reconstitute them once the international community lost interest. "In terms of intention, he always had it," Mr. Powell said. "What he was waiting to do is see if he could break the will of the international community, get rid of any potential future inspections, and get back to his intentions, which were to have weapons of mass destruction." The administration has quietly withdrawn a 400-member team of American weapons inspectors who were charged with finding chemical or biological weapons stockpiles or laboratories, officials said this week. The team was part of the 1,400-member Iraq Survey Group, which has not turned up such weapons or active programs, the officials said. The Carnegie report challenged the possibility that Mr. Hussein could have destroyed the weapons, hidden them or shipped them out of the country. Officials had alleged that Iraq held amounts so huge - hundreds of tons of chemical and biological weapons, dozens of Scud missiles - that such moves would have been detected by the United States, the report said. The Washington Post this week reported that Iraq had apparently preserved its ability to produce missiles, biological agents and other illicit weapons through the decade-long period of international sanctions after the Persian Gulf war, but that their development had apparently been limited to the planning stage. On North Korea, he said he had received "encouraging signals" from his Asian counterparts that the North might be close to agreeing to another round of six-party talks. But he said the administration would not yield on its insistence that the North first state its willingness to bring its nuclear program to a verifiable end. Mr. Powell was equally hopeful about a peace agreement to end a grueling civil war in Sudan. "The key here is that after 20 years of most terrible war, Sudanese leaders have come together and are just one or two steps short of having a comprehensive peace agreement," he said. On the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, he said the United States and the three other nations promoting peace talks had expected more movement ending hostilities and establishing a Palestinian state. "They are as disturbed as I am that we haven't seen the kind of progress that we had hoped for," he said. Turning to Haiti, where a decade ago Mr. Powell took part in a delegation that sought to persuade plotters in a military coup to step down, he voiced frustration at the failure of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to reach agreement with his political foes. Violence has flared in recent days as anti-Aristide protesters demanded an end to a political deadlock that has paralyzed the government. The country's Catholic Bishops Conference has tried to broker a new agreement. |
OT : Another poll to break Harry's (if he has one) heart
Have you read any of the posts by Harry, jps, basskisser etc? You keep
highlighting mild insults from the people on the right, but high five the left while the hurl profanity and hate speech to those they disagree with. Left wing individuals are not an "institution". Nor are right wing individuals an "institution". Many people exhibit outrageous behavior here in the NG. It's funny to watch how the accusations fly. In virtually every case, those who complain about various individuals overlook the hateful flaming done by people on their own "side" and point out the equally offensive antics by somebody else and label that "the problem". Right wing radio *is* an institution, and it rather unfortunately sets the tone for its listening audience. The largest such audience in the US. Did you know the largest owner of radio stations in the country is the corporation that broadcasts the Rush Limbaugh show? In some small towns, they own *every* station, and are buying up TV stations, newspapers, etc literally as fast as possible. And I don't high-five anybody. You must be new here. This statement applies to everybody: My point is that those unable to discuss issues resort to hurling strings of insults. An insult is an emotional reaction, not an intellectual response. It was included in a response to a couple of the resident right wingers because they were the individuals involved in the discussion at the time. It would be ridiculous to say that a right wing poster flames and insults when he has nothing intelligent to offer, but that a left wing poster can do the same thing and it's a sign of inspired genius. But hey. It's an election year. The dirtiest ******* will win, and both sides are out to make sure they're dirtier than the other. Same old thing. |
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